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I might get some hate for this, but Google seems to be doing some really cool things, like in fintech as well as this silicon project. Google Finance is one of

I might get some hate for this, but Google seems to be doing some really cool things, like in fintech as well as this silicon project. Google Finance is one of the only players I've seen with an interest of opening things up when so much of the industry is about pushing others out and restricting access. Like for example the CME deal, to open source live, low latency stock market data. Bloomberg might let you rent it for 25k a year if you're lucky. Google? Yeah just hook into the websocket bro, it's free. Someone's gotta do it Most of the stock market data the avg person sees is 15 minutes delayed by request of the NYSE, and in a world where trades are reaching the 3 millisecond and below mark, that's a very long time. So Google opening up what could be <20ms data might be able to help some applications. Not saying it's a silver bullet either. I wish they would take on even more big projects that need to be tackled. Like I want to see a google branded remote controlled barge out in the pacific garbage patch that the public is controlling through a google web app or some other insane, good projects. Idk when you deal with finance companies all day, even google seems moral. However, it's not looking good this quarter for all tech cos

SEJeff 4y ago
The Pyth Network is exclusively HFT and TradFi big money traders or exchanges and they give it away for free to break the market data monopoly. https://pyth.network https://pyth.network
xbmcuser 4y ago
Google main objective for many years was to get as many people online and using digital services as possible so that they can make money of them. I think it is quite under appreciated how much of todays web systems is because of Google using and promoting opensource as well as open sourcing its older tech stack.
nly 4y ago
> in a world where trades are reaching the 3 millisecond and below mark Industry average for those colocated and trading using software is going to be closer to something like 20-30 microseconds
zizee 4y ago
> remote controlled barge out in the pacific garbage patch Whilst I like the thought behind idea, these ocean garbage patches aren't easy to clean up with a barge. > For many people, the idea of a “garbage patch” conjures up images of an island of trash floating on the ocean. In reality, these patches are almost entirely made up of tiny bits of plastic, called microplastics. Microplastics can’t always be seen by the naked eye. Even satellite imagery doesn’t show a giant patch of garbage. The microplastics of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch can simply make the water look like a cloudy soup. This soup is intermixed with larger items, such as fishing gear and shoes. Better to clean things up at the source. It is estimated that 90% of all plastic waste in our oceans come from just 10 rivers in Asia. https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/great-pacific-garbage-patch https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/great-paci... https://m.dw.com/en/almost-all-plastic-in-the-ocean-comes-from-just-10-rivers/a-41581484 https://m.dw.com/en/almost-all-plastic-in-the-ocean-comes-fr...
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  There is actually already a (very nerdy, HN appropriate) project cleaning up the garbage patch. And yes, they also started building river interceptors as that is more bang per buck. They still seem to think they can clean the existing stuff economically too. https://theoceancleanup.com/dashboard/ https://theoceancleanup.com/dashboard/
  - zizee 4y ago
    Thanks for the link, it looks like an interesting project, and fun engineering challenge. It would be interesting to see $ spent per tonne of garbage removed from the rivers vs ocean. Like you said, far more economical to focus on the source. Given no project has unlimited funds, why spend resources on the"garbage patch"? I suspect that they still work on the ocean part because: 1. Is better for fundraising; 2. Is a fun engineering challenge; 3. fun to work on big boats; 4. Helps with recruitment;
    - solarengineer 4y ago
      They do work on cleaning up rivers as well! Check their Interceptors. https://theoceancleanup.com/rivers/ https://theoceancleanup.com/rivers/ Also, the ocean garbage does need cleaning up too
dogleash 4y ago
I ain't hating but "commoditizing your complement" is just pushing others out and restricting access with extra steps. Admittedly, the bones they'll throw us in the process do look like they'll be cool, tho.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  As a consumer, you want everything to be a commodity (i.e. and abundance of choice). This means you'll have more options at every price point.
  - redanddead 4y ago
    That never actually happens though, what ends up happening is that people realize it's better to be a literal cartel and MONOPOLY! And you get the worst of all deals, see Shrinkflation My point is we shouldn't trust businesses to be moral, and I don't. I'm just angry at the NYSE
  - dogleash 4y ago
    >As a consumer, you want everything to be a commodity True. But I'm also guessing that in 5 years I'll be more frustrated at the level of control they're exercising with thing they're currently building next to it. More so than I am with the market they're commoditising today.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    I would expect a commodity to be produced with pretty low margins (since the competition is pretty fierce), but not for free. If Google is giving away the information for free, is that really a commodity? I mean either they are giving it away for some strategic reason, they are taking their cut in some more byzantine way, or they have decided to act as a charity for at-home traders for some reason.
    - Dracophoenix 4y ago
      Information itself is a commodity. An encyclopedia doesn't have value have because it costs money but the vice versa. Wikipedia is free, yet it has done more for the world in 20 years than the Brittanica has in 250. I'm not suggesting Google gives away information as a purely altruistic endeavor. However, Google's ulterior motives, should they have any, are irrelevant to the value of the information itself so long as it hasn't been edited or tampered with.
api 4y ago
Wow, how things have changed. I've been here since back when Google could do no wrong. Now they're a poster child for shady surveillance capitalism. Same with Elon Musk. I remember him being compared to a comic book hero. Now he's an alt-right racist (if you are a leftist) or an evil globalist technocrat (if you are a rightist).
- kranke155 4y ago
  If you’re Ukrainian he’s a National hero.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  > poster child for shady surveillance capitalism as well they should be, they carried it forward like Atlas carrying the globe.. in the beginning it was competition, then, we could not stop..
- mlindner 4y ago
  > Same with Elon Musk. I remember him being compared to a comic book hero. Now he's an alt-right racist (if you are a leftist) or an evil globalist technocrat (if you are a rightist). He hasn't changed though, and little has changed in what he's actually doing too. If anything, he's more mellow now than he was when he was younger. People's impressions of him have been highly twisted IMO.
  - api 4y ago
    Yeah, he's neither a comic book hero nor a monster. He's a rich dude who's pretty smart and decided to risk a bunch of his helping build up companies working in important innovative fields, but unfortunately he also trolls and overshares on Twitter like a 13 year old.
- scarface74 4y ago
  From day one Google’s business plan was ads - except for the brief time where they were selling “Google Search Appliances”. Every company whose business model isn’t “I give them money and they give me stuff” is shady.
mszcz 4y ago
> Like for example the CME deal, to open source live, low latency stock market data. Bloomberg might let you rent it for 25k a year if you're lucky. Google? Yeah just hook into the websocket bro, it's free. Cursory search turned up nothing for me. Can you point me in the direction where I can find free (or low cost) market data that you mentioned?
- redanddead 4y ago
  https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/financial-services/building-real-time-streaming-pipelines-for-market-data https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/financial-services/buil... This link has more info
  - gregsadetsky 4y ago
    I see that CME is using GCP to offer its data stream, but it doesn't seem free. "This innovative collaboration with Google Cloud will not only make it easier for our clients to access the data [...] CME Group customers will be able to access all real-time CME Group data [...]" (emphasis mine) [0] As for [1], it has a Contact Us form and a link to [2] which talks about onboarding and an "On-demand, pay as you go model". Could you point to the free market data pub/sub and/or specific steps to recreate the demo? Thanks! [0] https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cme-group-to-offer-real-time-market-data-via-google-cloud-platform-300937980.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cme-group-to-offer-... [1] https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/connect-data/cloud-mdp.html https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/connect-data/cloud-mdp.... [2] https://dataservices.cmegroup.com/Data-Products https://dataservices.cmegroup.com/Data-Products
  - geph2021 4y ago
    That seems really cool, thanks for posting. However, I did notice that their demo does not seem to have any live prices right now (the demo is a couple years old, so maybe no longer live): https://showcase.withgoogle.com/marketdata https://showcase.withgoogle.com/marketdata Also, to the point about Bloomberg's high subscription fees, they provide all imaginable financial data under the sun. This google demo with CME is just CME data, which is a small, albeit important, part of market data, let alone the broader financial data. Furthermore, in many cases the data itself is owned by the exchanges, so Bloomberg's fees reflect passing on the (at times exorbitant) exchange fees. NYSE, NASDAQ, CME, etc.. are historically the ones that are the gatekeepers of the data and putting up financial barriers.
gurjeet 4y ago
> ... data the avg person sees is 15 minutes delayed ..., that may as well be a light year. Nit pick: you've got your units mixed up; minute is a unit of time, and light-year is a unit of distance.
- redanddead 4y ago
  fixed, thank you
  - Teodolfo 4y ago
    In some unit systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometrized_unit_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometrized_unit_system) they are both units of length.
    - guipsp 4y ago
      They are not both units of length on that system either.
- sitkack 4y ago
  I blame George Lucas for this.
  - mkl 4y ago
    Star Wars confused parsecs with a unit of time, not light years.
    - slater 4y ago
      FYI there's apparently some retcon stuff about that, e.g. maybe the Kessel run is around a particularly dangerous area of space (black holes or w/e), so accomplishing it in LESS parsecs is something to brag about ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      - zem 4y ago
beambot 4y ago
It's "free" until it's sunset with no notice. Google is notorious for doing this. RIP Reader.
- rajman187 4y ago
  Indeed, the list is incredible https://killedbygoogle.com https://killedbygoogle.com https://gcemetery.co https://gcemetery.co
scarface74 4y ago
Don’t be too impressed. Every company is interested in “opening things up” when it’s to their competitive advantage. You notice that “open” Android is increasingly dependent on closed source “Google Play Services” and Google uses the closed source parts to beat OEMs into submission?
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  Not to mention the fact they provide hardware attestation to apps which will enable them to lock out rooted phones.
mnahkies 4y ago
Ibkr gives me close to real time data for about $6 a month - I've not read the fine print closely but I'd be shocked if it is 15min stale. It's localized to certain exchanges but covers most bases. Ultimately any retail investor is unlikely to be able to capitalise on millisecond data without developing their own hft bots
- mgraczyk 4y ago
  Even without a plan you can get snapshots for about $0.01 each that I believe are less than 15s old
- spitfire 4y ago
  Last time I was heavily playing with IB's API they were 250ms rollups of the market. So not useful for HFT or anything, but plenty fast enough for prosumer trading.
bergenty 4y ago
I’m going to pile on the good times here because I think Google is doing an amazing job with YouTube, their search always seems to return what I’m looking for, I like the Google workspace suite, I love Google earth and maps, I’m totally for their approach with self driving with Waymo, I appreciate their ethical stances, like Google chrome, always loved gmail, love that they try so many moonshots and am grateful for android. I hope they make their own silicon soon. All of these seem to be unpopular opinions now but there it is.

SEJeff 4y ago

The Pyth Network is exclusively HFT and TradFi big money traders or exchanges and they give it away for free to break the market data monopoly. https://pyth.network https://pyth.network

xbmcuser 4y ago

Google main objective for many years was to get as many people online and using digital services as possible so that they can make money of them. I think it is quite under appreciated how much of todays web systems is because of Google using and promoting opensource as well as open sourcing its older tech stack.

nly 4y ago

> in a world where trades are reaching the 3 millisecond and below mark Industry average for those colocated and trading using software is going to be closer to something like 20-30 microseconds

zizee 4y ago

> remote controlled barge out in the pacific garbage patch Whilst I like the thought behind idea, these ocean garbage patches aren't easy to clean up with a barge. > For many people, the idea of a “garbage patch” conjures up images of an island of trash floating on the ocean. In reality, these patches are almost entirely made up of tiny bits of plastic, called microplastics. Microplastics can’t always be seen by the naked eye. Even satellite imagery doesn’t show a giant patch of garbage. The microplastics of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch can simply make the water look like a cloudy soup. This soup is intermixed with larger items, such as fishing gear and shoes. Better to clean things up at the source. It is estimated that 90% of all plastic waste in our oceans come from just 10 rivers in Asia. https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/great-pacific-garbage-patch https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/great-paci... https://m.dw.com/en/almost-all-plastic-in-the-ocean-comes-from-just-10-rivers/a-41581484 https://m.dw.com/en/almost-all-plastic-in-the-ocean-comes-fr...

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
There is actually already a (very nerdy, HN appropriate) project cleaning up the garbage patch. And yes, they also started building river interceptors as that is more bang per buck. They still seem to think they can clean the existing stuff economically too. https://theoceancleanup.com/dashboard/ https://theoceancleanup.com/dashboard/
- zizee 4y ago
  Thanks for the link, it looks like an interesting project, and fun engineering challenge. It would be interesting to see $ spent per tonne of garbage removed from the rivers vs ocean. Like you said, far more economical to focus on the source. Given no project has unlimited funds, why spend resources on the"garbage patch"? I suspect that they still work on the ocean part because: 1. Is better for fundraising; 2. Is a fun engineering challenge; 3. fun to work on big boats; 4. Helps with recruitment;
  - solarengineer 4y ago
    They do work on cleaning up rivers as well! Check their Interceptors. https://theoceancleanup.com/rivers/ https://theoceancleanup.com/rivers/ Also, the ocean garbage does need cleaning up too

dogleash 4y ago

I ain't hating but "commoditizing your complement" is just pushing others out and restricting access with extra steps. Admittedly, the bones they'll throw us in the process do look like they'll be cool, tho.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
As a consumer, you want everything to be a commodity (i.e. and abundance of choice). This means you'll have more options at every price point.
- redanddead 4y ago
  That never actually happens though, what ends up happening is that people realize it's better to be a literal cartel and MONOPOLY! And you get the worst of all deals, see Shrinkflation My point is we shouldn't trust businesses to be moral, and I don't. I'm just angry at the NYSE
- dogleash 4y ago
  >As a consumer, you want everything to be a commodity True. But I'm also guessing that in 5 years I'll be more frustrated at the level of control they're exercising with thing they're currently building next to it. More so than I am with the market they're commoditising today.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  I would expect a commodity to be produced with pretty low margins (since the competition is pretty fierce), but not for free. If Google is giving away the information for free, is that really a commodity? I mean either they are giving it away for some strategic reason, they are taking their cut in some more byzantine way, or they have decided to act as a charity for at-home traders for some reason.
  - Dracophoenix 4y ago
    Information itself is a commodity. An encyclopedia doesn't have value have because it costs money but the vice versa. Wikipedia is free, yet it has done more for the world in 20 years than the Brittanica has in 250. I'm not suggesting Google gives away information as a purely altruistic endeavor. However, Google's ulterior motives, should they have any, are irrelevant to the value of the information itself so long as it hasn't been edited or tampered with.

api 4y ago

Wow, how things have changed. I've been here since back when Google could do no wrong. Now they're a poster child for shady surveillance capitalism. Same with Elon Musk. I remember him being compared to a comic book hero. Now he's an alt-right racist (if you are a leftist) or an evil globalist technocrat (if you are a rightist).

kranke155 4y ago
If you’re Ukrainian he’s a National hero.
mistrial9 4y ago
> poster child for shady surveillance capitalism as well they should be, they carried it forward like Atlas carrying the globe.. in the beginning it was competition, then, we could not stop..
mlindner 4y ago
> Same with Elon Musk. I remember him being compared to a comic book hero. Now he's an alt-right racist (if you are a leftist) or an evil globalist technocrat (if you are a rightist). He hasn't changed though, and little has changed in what he's actually doing too. If anything, he's more mellow now than he was when he was younger. People's impressions of him have been highly twisted IMO.
- api 4y ago
  Yeah, he's neither a comic book hero nor a monster. He's a rich dude who's pretty smart and decided to risk a bunch of his helping build up companies working in important innovative fields, but unfortunately he also trolls and overshares on Twitter like a 13 year old.
scarface74 4y ago
From day one Google’s business plan was ads - except for the brief time where they were selling “Google Search Appliances”. Every company whose business model isn’t “I give them money and they give me stuff” is shady.

mszcz 4y ago

> Like for example the CME deal, to open source live, low latency stock market data. Bloomberg might let you rent it for 25k a year if you're lucky. Google? Yeah just hook into the websocket bro, it's free. Cursory search turned up nothing for me. Can you point me in the direction where I can find free (or low cost) market data that you mentioned?

redanddead 4y ago
https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/financial-services/building-real-time-streaming-pipelines-for-market-data https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/financial-services/buil... This link has more info
- gregsadetsky 4y ago
  I see that CME is using GCP to offer its data stream, but it doesn't seem free. "This innovative collaboration with Google Cloud will not only make it easier for our clients to access the data [...] CME Group customers will be able to access all real-time CME Group data [...]" (emphasis mine) [0] As for [1], it has a Contact Us form and a link to [2] which talks about onboarding and an "On-demand, pay as you go model". Could you point to the free market data pub/sub and/or specific steps to recreate the demo? Thanks! [0] https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cme-group-to-offer-real-time-market-data-via-google-cloud-platform-300937980.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cme-group-to-offer-... [1] https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/connect-data/cloud-mdp.html https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/connect-data/cloud-mdp.... [2] https://dataservices.cmegroup.com/Data-Products https://dataservices.cmegroup.com/Data-Products
- geph2021 4y ago
  That seems really cool, thanks for posting. However, I did notice that their demo does not seem to have any live prices right now (the demo is a couple years old, so maybe no longer live): https://showcase.withgoogle.com/marketdata https://showcase.withgoogle.com/marketdata Also, to the point about Bloomberg's high subscription fees, they provide all imaginable financial data under the sun. This google demo with CME is just CME data, which is a small, albeit important, part of market data, let alone the broader financial data. Furthermore, in many cases the data itself is owned by the exchanges, so Bloomberg's fees reflect passing on the (at times exorbitant) exchange fees. NYSE, NASDAQ, CME, etc.. are historically the ones that are the gatekeepers of the data and putting up financial barriers.

gurjeet 4y ago

> ... data the avg person sees is 15 minutes delayed ..., that may as well be a light year. Nit pick: you've got your units mixed up; minute is a unit of time, and light-year is a unit of distance.

redanddead 4y ago
fixed, thank you
- Teodolfo 4y ago
  In some unit systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometrized_unit_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometrized_unit_system) they are both units of length.
  - guipsp 4y ago
    They are not both units of length on that system either.
sitkack 4y ago
I blame George Lucas for this.
- mkl 4y ago
  Star Wars confused parsecs with a unit of time, not light years.
  - slater 4y ago
    FYI there's apparently some retcon stuff about that, e.g. maybe the Kessel run is around a particularly dangerous area of space (black holes or w/e), so accomplishing it in LESS parsecs is something to brag about ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - zem 4y ago

beambot 4y ago

It's "free" until it's sunset with no notice. Google is notorious for doing this. RIP Reader.

rajman187 4y ago
Indeed, the list is incredible https://killedbygoogle.com https://killedbygoogle.com https://gcemetery.co https://gcemetery.co

scarface74 4y ago

Don’t be too impressed. Every company is interested in “opening things up” when it’s to their competitive advantage. You notice that “open” Android is increasingly dependent on closed source “Google Play Services” and Google uses the closed source parts to beat OEMs into submission?

matheusmoreira 4y ago
Not to mention the fact they provide hardware attestation to apps which will enable them to lock out rooted phones.

mnahkies 4y ago

Ibkr gives me close to real time data for about $6 a month - I've not read the fine print closely but I'd be shocked if it is 15min stale. It's localized to certain exchanges but covers most bases. Ultimately any retail investor is unlikely to be able to capitalise on millisecond data without developing their own hft bots

mgraczyk 4y ago
Even without a plan you can get snapshots for about $0.01 each that I believe are less than 15s old
spitfire 4y ago
Last time I was heavily playing with IB's API they were 250ms rollups of the market. So not useful for HFT or anything, but plenty fast enough for prosumer trading.

bergenty 4y ago

I’m going to pile on the good times here because I think Google is doing an amazing job with YouTube, their search always seems to return what I’m looking for, I like the Google workspace suite, I love Google earth and maps, I’m totally for their approach with self driving with Waymo, I appreciate their ethical stances, like Google chrome, always loved gmail, love that they try so many moonshots and am grateful for android. I hope they make their own silicon soon. All of these seem to be unpopular opinions now but there it is.