9 ms·

Based on all other comments I have an unpopular opinion: I think this is fine. If 10 people want to buy 1 car, how do you choose which person gets it? You raise

by atestu 4y ago

Based on all other comments I have an unpopular opinion: I think this is fine. If 10 people want to buy 1 car, how do you choose which person gets it? You raise the price until there's only 1 person. How else would you do it?

capableweb 4y ago
Well yeah, if you want as much money for the car as possible, then you'd do it like that. Personally when I sell stuff second-hand (which tends to be cars, computers, instruments and various accessories), I sell it to whoever is first and closest, in that order.
- atestu 4y ago
  Right. And I don't think we should fault dealers for wanting to make as much money as possible. They're a business after all. I usually do the same when I sell stuff second-hand because my priority is getting rid of it as fast as possible, not to make the most money. Since dealers have very limited inventories these days, they should take more time to get a better price.
  - n4r9 4y ago
    > They're a business after all. I'd argue that using this phrase to write off wider ethical concerns is one of the key issues here.
    - millerm 4y ago
      Exactly. Many people actually ”need” things, but always end up getting beaten by the person who has more $. It’s just constant battering of people that aren’t as well off as others. It’s often a disgusting system. The poor always suffer due to this “I’ll just hand wave to the ethics and talk about capitalism“.
      - coryrc 4y ago
        Capitalism brought hundreds of millions out of abject poverty in the last thirty years. It has real consequences. The poor in the US have better living standards than half the planet and every opportunity to better except their own cultures holding them back. The left refuses to acknowledge or deal with this, creating generational poverty. What's not to blame is "capitalism".
        n4r9 4y ago
        You're making a few disingenuous claims. Firstly, that it is illegitimate to criticise capitalism because it has created some benefits. As if we're not even allowed to dream of system reform because we're currently doing better than other countries. Very little social or economic progress would be made if we all thought like this. Secondly, that those benefits are purely due to unadulterated capitalism. In reality, Western countries follow a mixture of capitalist, statist, and socialist policies. The poor in the US have seen improvements because of the minimum wage, anti-trust regulations, and various social safety nets combined with economic growth. Thirdly, that the only thing holding other countries back is "their own cultures". This ignores widespread, long-term destabilising interference by Western countries in Africa, the Middle East, South Asia and South America.
        mind-blight 4y ago
        Capital markets are really great at some things, and really bad at others. Treating them as a one-size-fits-all solution for our problems is inefficient and dogmatic. We end up coupling our moral values with the system we use to try to enforce said values
    - ReptileMan 4y ago
      How raising pricies is unethical? We are talking about somewhat luxury goods here - new cars.
      - n4r9 4y ago
        People who can no longer buy the new car will instead buy a lower priced car, encouraging an upward trend in general car prices.
        ReptileMan 4y ago
        And then manufacturers will increase supply and prices will go down. I am fairly open to the argument that price gouging for necessities in times of sudden life threatening crunch is not ok, but car market is operating like a normal market.
        n4r9 4y ago
        Except that, in this case, chip shortages and a supply-chain crisis mean that supply won't increase.
        hellojesus 4y ago
        Then the market is acting rationally and allocating limited goods to the highest bidder. Prices would go down if the population stopped purchasing at the given prices. But all it takes is one person to buy at a price just above yours to keep you out of the market.
        n4r9 4y ago
        I'm not arguing against the dynamics of the current economic system. I'm challenging whether "that's business after all" is a sound ethical defense of a decision to raise new car prices in this climate. You could just as easily claim that industry consolidation is "rational" because it the people making the deals make a lot of money, but the overall effect is often bad for society.
- namdnay 4y ago
  Sure, Because it’s not your core business
- badpun 4y ago
  Then all the cars will be bought by scalpers and resold for much more, just as it happened with GPUs.
chiefalchemist 4y ago
How about they also publish the best markdowns at the same time? Just like the market can react to markups, it can also do so for markdowns.
newsclues 4y ago
It’s fine until you have an artificially limited number of essential goods (food and water, housing, etc). Then it’s bullshit that will lead to violence.
beowulfey 4y ago
I also think it is precisely within the rights of the dealership. That’s how it is supposed to work. Similarly, I also love that this website exists as a consumer, to provide balance to the market and better distribute demand (keeping prices overall lower).
- mint2 4y ago
  Why is it “supposed” to work that way? American society is structured such that a car is considered more or less a requirement. Is it okay to charge the max people will possibly pay for other requirements of living like medicine? Martin Shkreli Was universally loathed for that. Dealers aren’t supposed to charge extreme markups any more Than they are supposed to give cars away for free. They do it because right now they can, but that doesn’t make it moral or American. It is just greed, which is often waived off as “how capitalism is supposed to work”. It’s just greedy usury because they can get away with it.
- saveferris 4y ago
  Generally, I would agree with you...let the market decide the price. But, car dealers have successfully "cornered the market" with state franchise laws. It is not a competitive market so it won't operate normally. So much is "wrong" with the dealership model relative to a competitive market I don't even know where to start. But, I do believe over time the franchise laws and dealer cartels will change dramatically. We're seeing that start to happen now with Tesla's model and Ford is creating a new model that looks a lot like Tesla's. Some states, looking at you TX, will continue to protect the local dealers cause the dealer associations donate a lot of money to state politicians but the tide will eventually turn...at least I think it will.
jeromegv 4y ago
The concern is not that. Yes increase price if demand is high and supply is low. However, they play those games where they advertise one price but actually have tons of mandated fees when you show up to purchase. So it makes shopping around very hard, you can’t compare between 2 dealerships as even calling them won’t give you that info. It’s predatory and anti consumer.
- SergeAx 4y ago
  > they advertise one price but actually have tons of mandated fees Isn't that illegal? They are advertising for non-existent product.
- sleepdreamy 4y ago
  This is literally the process of purchasing a vehicle in 2022. I needed a car (My old one had broken down after 9 years of service) Advertised price was 24,500. I walked out totaling 30,000 after all the bullshit and that was with a 4000 downpayment. I left an honest review on Google Reviews about how misleading and unhappy I was with that dealer in particulars process but I loved the car so I just sucked it up. When we bought my wifes car I had a much better experience. Some dealerships are just sleazy, and if you need the car you need the car.
  - chevman 4y ago
    When I negotiated to buy my most recent car online back in 2016, the term to use was 'final out the door cost'. I reached out to maybe 7 or 8 dealers, had a couple that refused to provide a total itemized cost, and then got back 5 quotes that varied quite a bit (like $7500 on a $30k car). Did one round of negotiation which ended up lowering the lowest price another thousand bucks or so and went with that dealership.
    - MerelyMortal 4y ago
      When I bought a car in 2015, I called around asking for the out-the-door price. I told the dealer that offered the best price that I was on the way. When I got to the dealership, I realized I was at the wrong one. I called the dealer to tell him I accidently went to the wrong one, the sales manager was standing there next to me and said we can beat their price, and I told the guy on the phone, they went back and forth a couple of times by $100 each instance. I ended up staying where I was and buying the exact same (common) car there. When I bought a truck in 2019, there was only one in my state that had the features that I wanted (I did not tell the dealer this). I tracked down the fleet/internet sales manager's email and emailed him asking what the Out-the-door price without incentives was on that VIN, then when it came time to do paperwork, I told them to apply incentive codes XXXXXX and YYYYYY. They tried to add on a dealer package for $1500 (I laughed when they explained it to me: nitrogen-filled tires, VIN etching on the windows, tint on the rear windows, and security lug nuts, I said we're breathing 70% nitrogen right now, and you can buy a VIN etching set online for $10), so I kept saying "no" until they asked if I could do $150 which was their cost, and I said yes to finish the deal. I told the salesperson that I understand they have to make a profit, and I have no issue with that, that they probably made $1500 to $2000 after the manufacturer volume incentive, and he said they only made $800 off of me.
zachshefska 4y ago
The market is SO inefficient. While you’re right in describing the principles of supply and demand, the reality is that buying a car should be 10x simpler and the price should just be the price. No games, no haggling, no BS add-ons that increase dealer profits. Retail auto is due for a wake up call, and I sense it’s happening right now. You wouldn’t need markups to make extra profit if the cost infrastructure associated with selling cars was lower than it currently is.
- zachshefska 4y ago
  And to be clear, consumers shouldn't have to negotiate for hours to try and get a "fair" price during "normal" market conditions. The current "markup" phenomenon is the same as the prior experience (pre-pandemic) where OEMs intentionally subsidized the purchase of their vehicles well below MSRP, and savvy customers could negotiate thousands off a car deal. It's mind boggling to me that we allow for such an inefficient market to perpetuate! 100 years of franchise dealerships is enough! Time for business and consumers to wake up and enact change.
  - rdtwo 4y ago
    Even during normal times if you wanted a trim that was somewhat desirable you would get hit with this behavior. Plus you get so many hidden fees that don’t have to be listed like the “Toyota Advertising fee” for over 1k. A few of those different fees Added 3-5k in normal times
- bradfa 4y ago
  Tesla is leading the way today (somewhat painfully in some areas) but they're not the first to try fixing this. GM's Saturn tried to make buying simpler in the 1990s and surely there were other previous examples, too. Ford seems to be testing the waters about how to simplify the car purchase process: https://fordauthority.com/2022/05/ford-dealers-will-likely-switch-over-to-new-business-model-by-2023/ https://fordauthority.com/2022/05/ford-dealers-will-likely-s... There's plenty of dealerships who have historically had simple purchase processes with standard no haggle pricing but often buyers have to do extensive research in order to find such dealerships.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
how about you sell it at the listed price to the first who comes in to sign the contract? Maybe those who were too late will come back and be quicker to decide next time, because they think you are fair. If you make it all about who has more money, they'll go to another dealer. There's no shortage of them. Imagine if any store did that: you go to an Apple store to buy a new iPhone, there are 20 people in front of you. Are you ready to outspend some of them?
- selectodude 4y ago
  Plenty of people are, hence the markups on new devices immediately after launch on eBay.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    they are not overspending anyone, they are simply trading their time to be first in line, while I buy it from my comfy chair at home at the price listed on the website. and they also need to hope there are enough stupid people on the internet to buy at a markup something sold in the hundred of millions of pieces,one indistinguishable from the other. more proof that an honest business can serve society better than scammers.
    - alach11 4y ago
      How do you feel about ticket scalpers who use bots to buy up concert tickets, then relist them for higher prices? This is only possible because the the tickets are being sold originally for under market value.
      - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
        > How do you feel about ticket scalpers who use bots to buy up concert tickets, As someone who used to attend more than a 100 concerts/year, I sincerely hate them. > This is only possible because the the tickets are being sold originally for under market value No, this is only possible because tickets can be made artificially scarce. And because there is a portion of the population who owns more money than is able to spend.
nuker 4y ago
> How else would you do it? Sell to first buyer, easy.
- kspacewalk2 4y ago
  Hardly seems fair to people who work long hours to feed their family and don't have the luxury of time to constantly try to scoop up the available vehicles. Plus, the ones who do have the time will recognize the obvious, easy money to be made in re-selling vehicles they purchase.
Spooky23 4y ago
Have you ever purchased a car before? If you think that the process of buying a car at retail is the market working efficiently, your expectations are incredibly low.
- atestu 4y ago
  I have, a used one, on Carvana. I don't think the process of buying a new car is efficient at all. And I'm not defending the dealership system either. I'm just saying they're acting rationally, and that the markups don't shock me.
jollyllama 4y ago
This works fine for unfinanced products, but when financing enters the picture, it becomes a "who is the most willing to take on debt" contest. People who can't think ahead win these, the prices are driven up for everyone else, and nobody has a good time in the long term.
- jjoonathan 4y ago
  Yep. Even worse: the housing market. The pattern seems to be: if you create value, you get optimized away. If you buy, screw things up to create scarcity, and flip, you make bank.
  - jollyllama 4y ago
    Absolutely. Also, higher education.
    - jjoonathan 4y ago
      Health care, housing, and education -- every year you pay more and get less. It's like Amdahl's Law for capitalism: some things are easy to optimize, other things aren't, and eventually the things that aren't easy to optimize dominate the system.
- grouchomarx 4y ago
  fantastic point.
dawnerd 4y ago
That’s not what’s happening though. Dealers are artificially limiting supply to induce that sort of logic. They have massive lots of cars parked here in staging areas yet if you check their in stock inventory they quote lead times and wait lists. Surprise though, they have plenty they’re just a bunch of liars taking advantage of the situation. The other issue is the classic bait and switch they do. They’ll market one price online but once you’re in person suddenly that price is marked up 15k. The solution? Remove dealers from the equation and let the manufacturers sell directly.
npteljes 4y ago
It's called an allocation strategy[0], and what you describe is the "market" one. There's also queues / lines and lotteries, for example. In a line system, there's a first come first served principle, and a lottery consists of people signalling their intent to buy, and then the buyers are selected randomly from that pool. [0] http://www.econoclass.com/allocation.html http://www.econoclass.com/allocation.html
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by atestu 4y ago

capableweb 4y ago

Well yeah, if you want as much money for the car as possible, then you'd do it like that. Personally when I sell stuff second-hand (which tends to be cars, computers, instruments and various accessories), I sell it to whoever is first and closest, in that order.

atestu 4y ago
Right. And I don't think we should fault dealers for wanting to make as much money as possible. They're a business after all. I usually do the same when I sell stuff second-hand because my priority is getting rid of it as fast as possible, not to make the most money. Since dealers have very limited inventories these days, they should take more time to get a better price.
- n4r9 4y ago
  > They're a business after all. I'd argue that using this phrase to write off wider ethical concerns is one of the key issues here.
  - millerm 4y ago
    Exactly. Many people actually ”need” things, but always end up getting beaten by the person who has more $. It’s just constant battering of people that aren’t as well off as others. It’s often a disgusting system. The poor always suffer due to this “I’ll just hand wave to the ethics and talk about capitalism“.
    - coryrc 4y ago
      Capitalism brought hundreds of millions out of abject poverty in the last thirty years. It has real consequences. The poor in the US have better living standards than half the planet and every opportunity to better except their own cultures holding them back. The left refuses to acknowledge or deal with this, creating generational poverty. What's not to blame is "capitalism".
      - n4r9 4y ago
        You're making a few disingenuous claims. Firstly, that it is illegitimate to criticise capitalism because it has created some benefits. As if we're not even allowed to dream of system reform because we're currently doing better than other countries. Very little social or economic progress would be made if we all thought like this. Secondly, that those benefits are purely due to unadulterated capitalism. In reality, Western countries follow a mixture of capitalist, statist, and socialist policies. The poor in the US have seen improvements because of the minimum wage, anti-trust regulations, and various social safety nets combined with economic growth. Thirdly, that the only thing holding other countries back is "their own cultures". This ignores widespread, long-term destabilising interference by Western countries in Africa, the Middle East, South Asia and South America.
      - mind-blight 4y ago
        Capital markets are really great at some things, and really bad at others. Treating them as a one-size-fits-all solution for our problems is inefficient and dogmatic. We end up coupling our moral values with the system we use to try to enforce said values
  - ReptileMan 4y ago
    How raising pricies is unethical? We are talking about somewhat luxury goods here - new cars.
    - n4r9 4y ago
      People who can no longer buy the new car will instead buy a lower priced car, encouraging an upward trend in general car prices.
      - ReptileMan 4y ago
        And then manufacturers will increase supply and prices will go down. I am fairly open to the argument that price gouging for necessities in times of sudden life threatening crunch is not ok, but car market is operating like a normal market.
        n4r9 4y ago
        Except that, in this case, chip shortages and a supply-chain crisis mean that supply won't increase.
        hellojesus 4y ago
        Then the market is acting rationally and allocating limited goods to the highest bidder. Prices would go down if the population stopped purchasing at the given prices. But all it takes is one person to buy at a price just above yours to keep you out of the market.
        n4r9 4y ago
        I'm not arguing against the dynamics of the current economic system. I'm challenging whether "that's business after all" is a sound ethical defense of a decision to raise new car prices in this climate. You could just as easily claim that industry consolidation is "rational" because it the people making the deals make a lot of money, but the overall effect is often bad for society.
namdnay 4y ago
Sure, Because it’s not your core business
badpun 4y ago
Then all the cars will be bought by scalpers and resold for much more, just as it happened with GPUs.

chiefalchemist 4y ago

How about they also publish the best markdowns at the same time? Just like the market can react to markups, it can also do so for markdowns.

newsclues 4y ago

It’s fine until you have an artificially limited number of essential goods (food and water, housing, etc). Then it’s bullshit that will lead to violence.

beowulfey 4y ago

I also think it is precisely within the rights of the dealership. That’s how it is supposed to work. Similarly, I also love that this website exists as a consumer, to provide balance to the market and better distribute demand (keeping prices overall lower).

mint2 4y ago
Why is it “supposed” to work that way? American society is structured such that a car is considered more or less a requirement. Is it okay to charge the max people will possibly pay for other requirements of living like medicine? Martin Shkreli Was universally loathed for that. Dealers aren’t supposed to charge extreme markups any more Than they are supposed to give cars away for free. They do it because right now they can, but that doesn’t make it moral or American. It is just greed, which is often waived off as “how capitalism is supposed to work”. It’s just greedy usury because they can get away with it.
saveferris 4y ago
Generally, I would agree with you...let the market decide the price. But, car dealers have successfully "cornered the market" with state franchise laws. It is not a competitive market so it won't operate normally. So much is "wrong" with the dealership model relative to a competitive market I don't even know where to start. But, I do believe over time the franchise laws and dealer cartels will change dramatically. We're seeing that start to happen now with Tesla's model and Ford is creating a new model that looks a lot like Tesla's. Some states, looking at you TX, will continue to protect the local dealers cause the dealer associations donate a lot of money to state politicians but the tide will eventually turn...at least I think it will.

jeromegv 4y ago

The concern is not that. Yes increase price if demand is high and supply is low. However, they play those games where they advertise one price but actually have tons of mandated fees when you show up to purchase. So it makes shopping around very hard, you can’t compare between 2 dealerships as even calling them won’t give you that info. It’s predatory and anti consumer.

SergeAx 4y ago
> they advertise one price but actually have tons of mandated fees Isn't that illegal? They are advertising for non-existent product.
sleepdreamy 4y ago
This is literally the process of purchasing a vehicle in 2022. I needed a car (My old one had broken down after 9 years of service) Advertised price was 24,500. I walked out totaling 30,000 after all the bullshit and that was with a 4000 downpayment. I left an honest review on Google Reviews about how misleading and unhappy I was with that dealer in particulars process but I loved the car so I just sucked it up. When we bought my wifes car I had a much better experience. Some dealerships are just sleazy, and if you need the car you need the car.
- chevman 4y ago
  When I negotiated to buy my most recent car online back in 2016, the term to use was 'final out the door cost'. I reached out to maybe 7 or 8 dealers, had a couple that refused to provide a total itemized cost, and then got back 5 quotes that varied quite a bit (like $7500 on a $30k car). Did one round of negotiation which ended up lowering the lowest price another thousand bucks or so and went with that dealership.
  - MerelyMortal 4y ago
    When I bought a car in 2015, I called around asking for the out-the-door price. I told the dealer that offered the best price that I was on the way. When I got to the dealership, I realized I was at the wrong one. I called the dealer to tell him I accidently went to the wrong one, the sales manager was standing there next to me and said we can beat their price, and I told the guy on the phone, they went back and forth a couple of times by $100 each instance. I ended up staying where I was and buying the exact same (common) car there. When I bought a truck in 2019, there was only one in my state that had the features that I wanted (I did not tell the dealer this). I tracked down the fleet/internet sales manager's email and emailed him asking what the Out-the-door price without incentives was on that VIN, then when it came time to do paperwork, I told them to apply incentive codes XXXXXX and YYYYYY. They tried to add on a dealer package for $1500 (I laughed when they explained it to me: nitrogen-filled tires, VIN etching on the windows, tint on the rear windows, and security lug nuts, I said we're breathing 70% nitrogen right now, and you can buy a VIN etching set online for $10), so I kept saying "no" until they asked if I could do $150 which was their cost, and I said yes to finish the deal. I told the salesperson that I understand they have to make a profit, and I have no issue with that, that they probably made $1500 to $2000 after the manufacturer volume incentive, and he said they only made $800 off of me.

zachshefska 4y ago

The market is SO inefficient. While you’re right in describing the principles of supply and demand, the reality is that buying a car should be 10x simpler and the price should just be the price. No games, no haggling, no BS add-ons that increase dealer profits. Retail auto is due for a wake up call, and I sense it’s happening right now. You wouldn’t need markups to make extra profit if the cost infrastructure associated with selling cars was lower than it currently is.

zachshefska 4y ago
And to be clear, consumers shouldn't have to negotiate for hours to try and get a "fair" price during "normal" market conditions. The current "markup" phenomenon is the same as the prior experience (pre-pandemic) where OEMs intentionally subsidized the purchase of their vehicles well below MSRP, and savvy customers could negotiate thousands off a car deal. It's mind boggling to me that we allow for such an inefficient market to perpetuate! 100 years of franchise dealerships is enough! Time for business and consumers to wake up and enact change.
- rdtwo 4y ago
  Even during normal times if you wanted a trim that was somewhat desirable you would get hit with this behavior. Plus you get so many hidden fees that don’t have to be listed like the “Toyota Advertising fee” for over 1k. A few of those different fees Added 3-5k in normal times
bradfa 4y ago
Tesla is leading the way today (somewhat painfully in some areas) but they're not the first to try fixing this. GM's Saturn tried to make buying simpler in the 1990s and surely there were other previous examples, too. Ford seems to be testing the waters about how to simplify the car purchase process: https://fordauthority.com/2022/05/ford-dealers-will-likely-switch-over-to-new-business-model-by-2023/ https://fordauthority.com/2022/05/ford-dealers-will-likely-s... There's plenty of dealerships who have historically had simple purchase processes with standard no haggle pricing but often buyers have to do extensive research in order to find such dealerships.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

how about you sell it at the listed price to the first who comes in to sign the contract? Maybe those who were too late will come back and be quicker to decide next time, because they think you are fair. If you make it all about who has more money, they'll go to another dealer. There's no shortage of them. Imagine if any store did that: you go to an Apple store to buy a new iPhone, there are 20 people in front of you. Are you ready to outspend some of them?

selectodude 4y ago
Plenty of people are, hence the markups on new devices immediately after launch on eBay.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  they are not overspending anyone, they are simply trading their time to be first in line, while I buy it from my comfy chair at home at the price listed on the website. and they also need to hope there are enough stupid people on the internet to buy at a markup something sold in the hundred of millions of pieces,one indistinguishable from the other. more proof that an honest business can serve society better than scammers.
  - alach11 4y ago
    How do you feel about ticket scalpers who use bots to buy up concert tickets, then relist them for higher prices? This is only possible because the the tickets are being sold originally for under market value.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > How do you feel about ticket scalpers who use bots to buy up concert tickets, As someone who used to attend more than a 100 concerts/year, I sincerely hate them. > This is only possible because the the tickets are being sold originally for under market value No, this is only possible because tickets can be made artificially scarce. And because there is a portion of the population who owns more money than is able to spend.

nuker 4y ago

> How else would you do it? Sell to first buyer, easy.

kspacewalk2 4y ago
Hardly seems fair to people who work long hours to feed their family and don't have the luxury of time to constantly try to scoop up the available vehicles. Plus, the ones who do have the time will recognize the obvious, easy money to be made in re-selling vehicles they purchase.

Spooky23 4y ago

Have you ever purchased a car before? If you think that the process of buying a car at retail is the market working efficiently, your expectations are incredibly low.

atestu 4y ago
I have, a used one, on Carvana. I don't think the process of buying a new car is efficient at all. And I'm not defending the dealership system either. I'm just saying they're acting rationally, and that the markups don't shock me.

jollyllama 4y ago

This works fine for unfinanced products, but when financing enters the picture, it becomes a "who is the most willing to take on debt" contest. People who can't think ahead win these, the prices are driven up for everyone else, and nobody has a good time in the long term.

jjoonathan 4y ago
Yep. Even worse: the housing market. The pattern seems to be: if you create value, you get optimized away. If you buy, screw things up to create scarcity, and flip, you make bank.
- jollyllama 4y ago
  Absolutely. Also, higher education.
  - jjoonathan 4y ago
    Health care, housing, and education -- every year you pay more and get less. It's like Amdahl's Law for capitalism: some things are easy to optimize, other things aren't, and eventually the things that aren't easy to optimize dominate the system.
grouchomarx 4y ago
fantastic point.

dawnerd 4y ago

That’s not what’s happening though. Dealers are artificially limiting supply to induce that sort of logic. They have massive lots of cars parked here in staging areas yet if you check their in stock inventory they quote lead times and wait lists. Surprise though, they have plenty they’re just a bunch of liars taking advantage of the situation. The other issue is the classic bait and switch they do. They’ll market one price online but once you’re in person suddenly that price is marked up 15k. The solution? Remove dealers from the equation and let the manufacturers sell directly.

npteljes 4y ago

It's called an allocation strategy[0], and what you describe is the "market" one. There's also queues / lines and lotteries, for example. In a line system, there's a first come first served principle, and a lottery consists of people signalling their intent to buy, and then the buyers are selected randomly from that pool. [0] http://www.econoclass.com/allocation.html http://www.econoclass.com/allocation.html

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]