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> The North American Amish population grew by an estimated 195,710 since 2000, increasing from approximately 177,910 in 2000 to 373,620 in 2022, an increase of

> The North American Amish population grew by an estimated 195,710 since 2000, increasing from approximately 177,910 in 2000 to 373,620 in 2022, an increase of 110 percent. Wow... for context, compare to the fact that (at least according to the decennial census) the white population of the US actually decreased from 2010-2020.

stevenjgarner 4y ago
It's going to be challenging to teach them Rust.
- biomcgary 4y ago
  They are probably not familiar with rust. My understanding is that they favor batteries-included languages.
  - downvotetruth 4y ago
    Pennsylvanian Dutch is more likely since they shun fancy things like electricity. https://ohiosamishcountry.com/articles/amish-faqs https://ohiosamishcountry.com/articles/amish-faqs But, the concatenated type names deep in any inheritance hierarchy would tend to be a scary sight (there be dragons) in agglutinative languages.
    - 2143 4y ago
      They better stay away from Electron apps then. But seriously, they shun electricity‽
      - Shared404 4y ago
        Yep, to an extent! Saw this on HN once: https://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/ https://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/
      - mushbino 4y ago
        Some do, some don't. Some of my relatives still wear all of the dress, have most of the customs, and live very simple lives but drive cars and use electricity. Some look exactly like you or or I but still have a lot of the cultural values. Other much more distant relatives in nearby communities don't use electricity or any modern technology and speak mostly Pennsylvania Dutch.
      - zdragnar 4y ago
        I live in the upper midwest, and there's quite a few communities here. Those that I have visited have one phone (in a booth by the road in front of someone's house) that the whole community uses. A wood working shop has a diesel engine to occasionally run air compressors, which in turn operate a lot of the larger tools for making lumber. A horse could do the job on a treadmill [1], but since the result is the same, they don't make the animal do the pointless work when they already get plenty of exercise. No cars, no electricity, though they'll hire a car when people need to get medical treatment or travel long distances to visit relatives. It's not about not using technology, so much as it is not having technology in your daily life that doesn't bring you closer to God. This particular group even uses safety pins instead of buttons in their clothes, since buttons are usually shiny or patterned with designs, which are can be a temptation of vanity. It's a conscious decision to give up a modern convenience in exchange for being spiritually healthier. Try spending a winter in a place without electricity, where your life depends on keeping a wood fired stove going (preferably a high efficiency model that doesn't produce a lot of smoke or particulates), and you start to appreciate the true amount of work that gas heating saves you. It does make you wonder, though, if the effort saved has allowed you to actually live a richer life. That is what they live every day, in all aspects. More work and fewer conveniences, but fewer distractions from what they value most. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE-qMwFPGlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE-qMwFPGlE
        kenneth 4y ago
        So in order to be spiritually closer to god, they prefer to burn a fuel that takes much more work to gather, that creates exponentially more emissions, and that is way less efficient? Seems rather silly.
        ilammy 4y ago
        Not everybody belongs to the Church of Emissions, you see.
        peteradio 4y ago
        You are comparing a singular aspect which is antithetical to the wholesome approach. If you don't actually like chopping wood or enjoy the sight of chopped wood or brawny men chopping wood (no wonder the birth rate is so high) or any other aspect of the chore then yes it is a very inefficient process. Burning wood outside of a city is not an emissions problem IMO.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
im3w1l 4y ago
- Shared404 4y ago
  - im3w1l 4y ago
    - Shared404 4y ago
- trention 4y ago
shrubble 4y ago
If the "double every 20 years" holds, it means 6 million or so Amish by 2100.
- kadoban 4y ago
  > If the "double every 20 years" holds, it means 6 million or so Amish by 2100. Spoiler: it doesn't hold. Extrapolating population numbers like that is extremely rarely correct.
klipt 4y ago
It's funny how atheists believe in evolution in theory, but fervently religious groups like this are the ones winning at evolution in practice. My theory is having kids is just really hard work, but a deeply ingrained religious belief that children are a blessing from God helps groups like the Amish push forward with it anyway.
- lalaland1125 4y ago
  Evolution isn't a moral theory. Evolution only makes predictions about reality, it doesn't tell you what is more moral or what you should do
  - klipt 4y ago
    Sure, but it's literally the definition of evolutionary fitness that having more kids makes you more evolutionarily fit. Nobody said fitness implies morality. But the Amish by definition have higher evolutionary fitness than average Americans.
    - jb_gericke 4y ago
      I think the greater human population is doing just fine - almost exclusively due to scientific and technological advancements. (https://lighthouse.mq.edu.au/article/why-has-the-world-population-grown-so-much-in-the-past-century https://lighthouse.mq.edu.au/article/why-has-the-world-popul...)
      - tresqotheq 4y ago
        > scientific and technological advancements. sure, it does not matter that things that we pay for and consume ends up having a million things that makes us sick in multiple ways, and if you are in some developing nation, you would be hard pressed to find food to feed your babies that is not laced with some kind of harmful pesticides or fertilizer, but hey, we can always pay more in healthcare to extend our diseased misery. We are doing just fine, in the mean while, there are more and more existential threats as the day progress, but hey, say it with me, we are JUST.DOING.FINE.
gostsamo 4y ago
Evolution does not preclude such strategy as free riding. The amish community takes advantage from the advances of civilization like medicine, and infrastructure while they don't contribute to it. This is okay while the larger world accepts them or while the larger world exists to shield them from the consequences of their omissions. This does not mean that they win in evolution. Winning is if you can adapt every time the environment changes, which is still to be seen.
BurningFrog 4y ago
The future belongs to those who multiply. At the moment, that looks like Amish, Muslims, and Elon Musk. The population who remain childless to not add to the population burden of the planet will become irrelevant. I find that sad, since I really like several of them...
- klipt 4y ago
  > and Elon Musk No, Musk lacks something the Amish and Muslims have: continuity. Amish children are likely to remain Amish. Musk may have 20 kids but those kids will probably have the American average of 1.5 kids each and his descendents will limit to 0 like everyone else in his culture.
  - Alt-F4 4y ago
    >and his descendents will limit to 0 like everyone else in his culture. What does this mean? Are you saying the human population of the universe will drop to 0? If so, why mention "his culture"?
Asraelite 4y ago
> (at least according to the decennial census) the white population of the US actually decreased from 2010-2020. How exactly is race categorized in that census? I'm just wondering if this is partly due to descendants of mixed couples not classifying themselves as white.

stevenjgarner 4y ago

It's going to be challenging to teach them Rust.

biomcgary 4y ago
They are probably not familiar with rust. My understanding is that they favor batteries-included languages.
- downvotetruth 4y ago
  Pennsylvanian Dutch is more likely since they shun fancy things like electricity. https://ohiosamishcountry.com/articles/amish-faqs https://ohiosamishcountry.com/articles/amish-faqs But, the concatenated type names deep in any inheritance hierarchy would tend to be a scary sight (there be dragons) in agglutinative languages.
  - 2143 4y ago
    They better stay away from Electron apps then. But seriously, they shun electricity‽
    - Shared404 4y ago
      Yep, to an extent! Saw this on HN once: https://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/ https://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/
    - mushbino 4y ago
      Some do, some don't. Some of my relatives still wear all of the dress, have most of the customs, and live very simple lives but drive cars and use electricity. Some look exactly like you or or I but still have a lot of the cultural values. Other much more distant relatives in nearby communities don't use electricity or any modern technology and speak mostly Pennsylvania Dutch.
    - zdragnar 4y ago
      I live in the upper midwest, and there's quite a few communities here. Those that I have visited have one phone (in a booth by the road in front of someone's house) that the whole community uses. A wood working shop has a diesel engine to occasionally run air compressors, which in turn operate a lot of the larger tools for making lumber. A horse could do the job on a treadmill [1], but since the result is the same, they don't make the animal do the pointless work when they already get plenty of exercise. No cars, no electricity, though they'll hire a car when people need to get medical treatment or travel long distances to visit relatives. It's not about not using technology, so much as it is not having technology in your daily life that doesn't bring you closer to God. This particular group even uses safety pins instead of buttons in their clothes, since buttons are usually shiny or patterned with designs, which are can be a temptation of vanity. It's a conscious decision to give up a modern convenience in exchange for being spiritually healthier. Try spending a winter in a place without electricity, where your life depends on keeping a wood fired stove going (preferably a high efficiency model that doesn't produce a lot of smoke or particulates), and you start to appreciate the true amount of work that gas heating saves you. It does make you wonder, though, if the effort saved has allowed you to actually live a richer life. That is what they live every day, in all aspects. More work and fewer conveniences, but fewer distractions from what they value most. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE-qMwFPGlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE-qMwFPGlE
      - kenneth 4y ago
        So in order to be spiritually closer to god, they prefer to burn a fuel that takes much more work to gather, that creates exponentially more emissions, and that is way less efficient? Seems rather silly.
        ilammy 4y ago
        Not everybody belongs to the Church of Emissions, you see.
        peteradio 4y ago
        You are comparing a singular aspect which is antithetical to the wholesome approach. If you don't actually like chopping wood or enjoy the sight of chopped wood or brawny men chopping wood (no wonder the birth rate is so high) or any other aspect of the chore then yes it is a very inefficient process. Burning wood outside of a city is not an emissions problem IMO.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

im3w1l 4y ago

Shared404 4y ago
- im3w1l 4y ago
  - Shared404 4y ago
trention 4y ago

shrubble 4y ago

If the "double every 20 years" holds, it means 6 million or so Amish by 2100.

kadoban 4y ago
> If the "double every 20 years" holds, it means 6 million or so Amish by 2100. Spoiler: it doesn't hold. Extrapolating population numbers like that is extremely rarely correct.

klipt 4y ago

It's funny how atheists believe in evolution in theory, but fervently religious groups like this are the ones winning at evolution in practice. My theory is having kids is just really hard work, but a deeply ingrained religious belief that children are a blessing from God helps groups like the Amish push forward with it anyway.

lalaland1125 4y ago
Evolution isn't a moral theory. Evolution only makes predictions about reality, it doesn't tell you what is more moral or what you should do
- klipt 4y ago
  Sure, but it's literally the definition of evolutionary fitness that having more kids makes you more evolutionarily fit. Nobody said fitness implies morality. But the Amish by definition have higher evolutionary fitness than average Americans.
  - jb_gericke 4y ago
    I think the greater human population is doing just fine - almost exclusively due to scientific and technological advancements. (https://lighthouse.mq.edu.au/article/why-has-the-world-population-grown-so-much-in-the-past-century https://lighthouse.mq.edu.au/article/why-has-the-world-popul...)
    - tresqotheq 4y ago
      > scientific and technological advancements. sure, it does not matter that things that we pay for and consume ends up having a million things that makes us sick in multiple ways, and if you are in some developing nation, you would be hard pressed to find food to feed your babies that is not laced with some kind of harmful pesticides or fertilizer, but hey, we can always pay more in healthcare to extend our diseased misery. We are doing just fine, in the mean while, there are more and more existential threats as the day progress, but hey, say it with me, we are JUST.DOING.FINE.

gostsamo 4y ago

Evolution does not preclude such strategy as free riding. The amish community takes advantage from the advances of civilization like medicine, and infrastructure while they don't contribute to it. This is okay while the larger world accepts them or while the larger world exists to shield them from the consequences of their omissions. This does not mean that they win in evolution. Winning is if you can adapt every time the environment changes, which is still to be seen.

BurningFrog 4y ago

The future belongs to those who multiply. At the moment, that looks like Amish, Muslims, and Elon Musk. The population who remain childless to not add to the population burden of the planet will become irrelevant. I find that sad, since I really like several of them...

klipt 4y ago
> and Elon Musk No, Musk lacks something the Amish and Muslims have: continuity. Amish children are likely to remain Amish. Musk may have 20 kids but those kids will probably have the American average of 1.5 kids each and his descendents will limit to 0 like everyone else in his culture.
- Alt-F4 4y ago
  >and his descendents will limit to 0 like everyone else in his culture. What does this mean? Are you saying the human population of the universe will drop to 0? If so, why mention "his culture"?

Asraelite 4y ago

> (at least according to the decennial census) the white population of the US actually decreased from 2010-2020. How exactly is race categorized in that census? I'm just wondering if this is partly due to descendants of mixed couples not classifying themselves as white.