11 ms·

My customized Wim Hof breathing method

146 points by ugjka 4y ago

mettamage 4y ago
I use the WHM to get high on drum and bass parties. The adrenaline that you have is higher than a first timer’s bungee jump when they are on their adrenaline peak [1]. [1] on the phone right bow but it is in the PNAS article about the WHM suppressing the immune system
yellow_lead 4y ago
"Getting high" off of a breathing method sounds a bit dangerous.
- Quequau 4y ago
  I moderate a few hearing health forums. From time to time I see people saying they got into this and damaged their hearing / caused tinnitus.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    Yeah, there are several threads about that in the subreddit [0]. I did get the ringing in my ears when I first started. The solutions normally given are a) You are straining yourself. "Listen to your body" when to stop holding your breath (No issues there for me) and b) Breath in through your nose, out through your mouth. Breathing in through my nose completely removed the ringing noise for me. [0]: https://old.reddit.com/r/BecomingTheIceman/ https://old.reddit.com/r/BecomingTheIceman/
    - jtbayly 4y ago
      I got ringing afterwards when I tried it, found the permanent tinnitus warnings and quit immediately. I wasn’t straining. I might try once more, being careful to follow your suggestion.
      - Semaphor 4y ago
        Yeah, I was pretty scared as well and instantly googled, saw the tinnitus warnings and became worried. Luckily, the nose breathing helped, because I quite enjoy the breathing exercises.
  - upsidesinclude 4y ago
    Tinnitus is mental
- guzik 4y ago
  It is. Hyperventilation is the body's response to CO2 levels become too low.
  - amelius 4y ago
    Can CO2 be measured in a simple way? (Like an oximeter in a smartwatch measures oxygen)?
    - Enginerrrd 4y ago
      The desire to breathe in a healthy individual is a really good proxy for CO2 levels based on a wonderful design with distributed sensors throughout the body. It is not a good proxy for O2 levels in healthy individuals, but may be in people with COPD or other chronic breathing problems.
    - ta988 4y ago
      Yes there is some equipment to do transcutaneous pCO2 but that's mostly used in sleep studies AFAIK. Most of the time you use a blood test. I heard in some research they use IR on expired air not sure how common that is. If you find a "home made" way to get a (even just relative) pCO2 reading I would be highly interested.
  - kuhewa 4y ago
    Hyperventilation removes CO2 from the blood
    - pcrh 4y ago
      ...which causes hypocapnia, which can be dangerous if prolonged.
  - jtbayly 4y ago
    Are you sure? I would expect it to be the response to high co2 levels, since it removes co2.
    - 4y ago
- yomkippur 4y ago
  Getting intoxicated isn't the end goal but to relax the body and mind to boost your immune system. I take you haven't even read the article. edit: so if you think Wim Hof is just getting recreational high then you should continue taking whatever drug you are on such as lead.
  - yellow_lead 4y ago
    The article doesnt talk about these benefits, only about how the author was able to re-achieve the high they were seeking. I take it you didn't read the article.
- upsidesinclude 4y ago
  I want to offer you two responses each of which are absolutely genuine: You must be fun at parties. If you have never experienced your own body responding to your selective input (other than Mt. Dew) you are missing out... Ever hear of a "runner's high"? Dangerous indeed! Why don't you try it out and see what happens, you have to breathe anyway
  - yellow_lead 4y ago
    No thanks, I don't have tinnitus and want to keep it that way.
    - upsidesinclude 4y ago
      Uh oh, you have tinnitus https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/psychopathology-tinnitus https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/psychopathology-tinnit...
MonkeyIsNull 4y ago
What this misses is that to keep the high going remove all breath holding. It just becomes continuous circular breathing — no holds, no pauses. This has been popularized by a lot of different people: Dan Brule, Leonard Orr, Binnie Dansby, Judith Kravitz. It comes under various names like: rebirthing, transformational breath and holotropic breathwork.
vmurthy 4y ago
The author's blog post should come with a disclaimer :) . A while ago I tried a few breathing techniques which were given in a nice book [0]. I really enjoyed the after-effects of the said techniques so I decided to mix and match some of them etc. The effects were awesome .. at first. After a couple of weeks, I started feeling very low for no particular reason (no dietary changes or anything) and just downright weird. I eliminated one factor after another and checked if my energy levels were OK. I finally gave up the experiment on breathing techniques and restarted what was in the book. I am good, now. So.. despite a sample size of one and a trial which wasn't random or controlled (:)) , my advice on this whole thing : Get a qualified teacher and do what is taught. YMMV otherwise. [0] https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B07WSBS5S4/ref=kinw_myk_ro_title https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B07WSBS5S4/ref=kinw_myk_ro_...
- philipwhiuk 4y ago
  Well that would require some critical thinking about the pseudoscience.
  - graderjs 4y ago
    Breathing exercises (and pranayama) are not pseudoscience. But the claim that they are is pseudoscience. As OP states you should be careful. Alternate nostril breathing is a good general purpose one. So is box breathing (aka Navy SEAL breathing).
    - dwringer 4y ago
      I don't think the above poster was claiming that breath exercises are pseudoscience, I think they were referring to the practice of claiming certain health benefits without scientific studies backing the claims. There are very real benefits that can be scientifically studied but there is also a lot of grandiose exaggeration and wishful thinking out there, as with every field of medicine throughout human history. It requires great care to sort out such things and that we learned to do so (at some level) is IMO one of the greatest triumphs of the modern scientific method. Now, whether science has more to learn from things like pranayama is a different subject and I think there still certainly is much to learn. But that means IMO we must be very careful in what claims we make and how we back them up. Edit: I'm not criticizing anyone or claiming anything does or doesn't work, I'm simply advocating for a scientific approach.
28304283409234 4y ago
The colors on the site, dark letters on a dark(ish) background, make it very hard for me to read
dr_dshiv 4y ago
“Bathtub breathing” is pretty amazing for producing an altered state. Basically, position yourself so that a deep breath in lifts your chest up and a breath out lets your chest sink. You can adjust so you basically breathe along with the resonant frequency of your body rising up and down in the tub. You get into a flow that is driven by natural mechanics and it can really take the mind to different places. Combines well with cannabis. Safety note: don’t drown.
- ugjka 4y ago
  Yeah dude, better avoid doing these kind of things in water
- jtbayly 4y ago
  I discovered this as a kid simply trying to relax in the tub. Could sometimes leave my airways open but stop actually breathing for long periods of time. Very relaxed state. Probably the closest thing to an altered state of consciousness I’ve ever had. Haven’t done it in decades.
- windexh8er 4y ago
  Don't do this. The last thing you want to be in is water doing breath work. I did a week long course with Wim Hof before he got popular, they were very adamant that you never do breath work in water. This is just ignorant and dangerous advice. I've been doing breath techniques for over 5 years now and would never do them in water even though I'm well practiced.
  - edmundsauto 4y ago
    I’m considering taking a WHM afternoon class, but have been questioning my expectations. For a noob, do you think a couple hours in a workshop would be valuable? Or am I being suckered by charletons?
    - windexh8er 4y ago
      My guess is you've read "What Doesn't Kill Us" and maybe Scott Carney's other book(s). I did a week long course in Poland - I can't say enough good about my experience, I'd do it again (and am planning on it). I've not done weekend / afternoon type workshops. My guess is this is going to give you a bit more than what you've done on your own. Group breath work has a whole different flare to it (in a really good way, and I'm not an overly social person). So, it may just be an upsell into the longer courses, but I will tell you learning breath work in a group setting has an energy you don't get on your own. Plus you may pick up a few trips to help you hone in on control. Just my $0.02.
manjunaths 4y ago
¦5) Deep breath in and constrict ¦your abdomen and chest and ¦push the breath in the brain (DMT ¦breath) for 10 seconds What?! How do you "push the breath in the brain"? It would have been nice if this step had been expanded with explicit instructions.
- ugjka 4y ago
  "pushing in the brain" means creating high pressure in the lungs until you feel it in your head I updated my blog just now accordingly
  - Enginerrrd 4y ago
    So like a valsalva maneuver? B/c we already have a word for that.
    - RealityVoid 4y ago
      I think a valsalva maneuver keeps intra-thoracic pressure high by closing up a bit lower the air pathways? At least that is how I do it, it feels like it it bottled up at about the place my larynx site.
      - Enginerrrd 4y ago
        I see, so we're talking open vs closed glottis? That makes more sense to me. An Open glottis definitely is more stimulating to the vagus nerve if nothing else so they are different.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
philipwhiuk 4y ago
The science for Wim Hof is very lacking.
- jmnicolas 4y ago
  The guy managed to swim around icebergs, so there's that.
brador 4y ago
The high comes from cutting oxygen to the brain, with all the side effects that brings. Do not do this.
- ryanwaggoner 4y ago
  Do you have a source that this kind of mild hypoxia is harmful to the brain, or is that just your conjecture? You may be right, but I’m skeptical. Starvation isn’t great for us, but there are many health benefits associated with fasting.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ta988 4y ago
    The benefits of fasting aren't that clear.
    - diydsp 4y ago
      Maybe another 146,000 papers [0] would start to clarify? [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=fasting https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=fasting
    - ryanwaggoner 4y ago
      I’m not an expert, but my understanding is that there’s a large body of research showing many benefits to fasting. That, plus anecdotal evidence from myself and others, is all I have to go on :)
- 1001101 4y ago
  I tried this a while back with a pulse oximeter on. Didn't like what I saw. Was my first and last time.
- yomkippur 4y ago
  When somebody on HN says don't do something, it usually comes from a place of misinformed half baked knowledge of the subject so I say ignore these alarmists who think people are going to kill themselves by holding their breath after increasing oxygen in blood by several folds.
dav_Oz 4y ago
The high is nice but the main thing I took away - when doing WHM some years ago - is to tolerate the CO2 buildup by relaxing and calming myself. The breathing pattern can help induce this; for me additionally learning to breath comfortably through the nose was a big help. But to tolerate CO2 (and with it physiologically adapting to it) is mainly a mental challenge to put your mind into a place where you stay calm enough not to panic when the urge to breath is trying to overwhelm you. It really translates well to high-intensity sport exercises where at a certain exertion I was trying to breath too hard and too early with the mouth open in an attempt to take in as much air as possible and paradoxically feeling even more suffocated. Also great for a relaxed swimming experience. I feel once I began to apply breathing techniques into various activities throughout the day that I now got a deeper connection/appreciation/understanding/confidence for modulating my breathing. And WHM can certainly jumpstart that experience. But I personally wouldn't recommend to just chase the next high.
- phonypc 4y ago
  There's no buildup of CO2 with these breathing techniques. Quite the opposite.
  - sateesh 4y ago
    Can you please elaborate. If you hold your breath and don't exhale for a longer period there will be CO2 buildup in the body.
    - bix6 4y ago
      Scroll down a bit. There’s a section explaining what happens. https://www.wimhofmethod.com/breathing-exercises https://www.wimhofmethod.com/breathing-exercises “When we breathe in, we take up oxygen and release carbon dioxide from our blood. Our blood is usually already fully saturated with oxygen (about 99% saturation) and breathing deeply does not raise that saturation. Breathing deeply does, however, release a lot of carbon dioxide. This, in turn, lowers the “urge to breathe”. The brain stem, specifically the pons and medulla oblongata, is sensitive to carbon dioxide. Having too much carbon dioxide in the blood will trigger your brain stem to breathe. By removing carbon dioxide from the blood through deep breathing, this impulse to breathe from the brain stem is lowered. In short, the lower the level of carbon dioxide, the longer you can hold your breath. The impulse is just not triggered yet.“
test87823 4y ago
mistrial9 4y ago
breathing is vital to life at the minute-to-minute level; breathing 'exercises' of any kind are potentially dangerous; using basic techniques to "get high" are inherently dangerous. Please do not do try breathing exercises alone; find reliable sources of information and practice.
- yomkippur 4y ago
  It is no more dangerous than holding your breath in to hurt yourself. Dolphins are capable of this but the human brain has mechanisms to prevent this from happening. It is hilarious reading all these armchair scientists warning against a harmless breathing exercises that is proven to be beneficial. If not, it will help you gain mindfulness. So many comments on here I feel like could benefit from that horrible danger of growing aware
crtxcr 4y ago
The following resources provide some background towards the original Wim Hof method: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24799686/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24799686/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9071023/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9071023/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpTG02x6w5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpTG02x6w5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWHRumILOOk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWHRumILOOk In short, the breathing increases epinephrine (adrenaline), which causes a spike in anti-inflammatory cytokines, and decreases inflammatory cytokines such as TNF-a. It should be added that on the web I found several reports about increased tinnitus symptoms, which usually subside after the breathing is stopped, but for some it was permanent. This is why I am not doing it regularly, as I also get some ringing, but thankfully it was not permanent. Nevertheless, I find this very method very exciting. I am glad Radboud took a look into it. However, I would love to see clinical trials on the method at last.
- ffhhj 4y ago
  > “pushing in the brain” means creating high pressure in the lungs until you feel it in your head. Do NOT push the air literaly into the airways in your head, that will cause tinnitus
- Semaphor 4y ago
  Posted this in another comment [0], but try breathing in through your nose, that stopped the ringing for me. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32285815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32285815
can16358p 4y ago
As a big fan of WHM which dramatically affects my physiology and psychology, I want to try this as soon as possible. Question to ugjka: How many rounds of your customized method do you recommend? I usually feel the most high after 3rd round, do you think I need the same, less, or more?
- ugjka 4y ago
  I didn't specify how many rounds precisely because you generally feel when enough is enough and you can't do this indefinitely because you get tired at some point
gits1225 4y ago
I too practice a customised breathing technique which is a combination of Sudarshan Kriya[1] + Wim Hof[2] while laying back on the floor. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tX0M6EveGY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tX0M6EveGY [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ 30 mins. Everyday after brush.
- BN1978 4y ago
  I respect your practice dedication. I am curious - what are the benefits you get from doing it everyday?
  - gits1225 4y ago
    I'm fit. I also practice Surya Namaskar[1] + 2 minute push-ups[2] + 2 minute mountain climbing after the 30 mins breathing. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKzkc3FWx7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKzkc3FWx7g [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYbHEcYbHmI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYbHEcYbHmI
    - kuhewa 4y ago
      So to be clear you credit your fitness to the 30 min breathing and quick bodyweight exercise routine?
      - gits1225 4y ago
        Yea I have just been practicing Sudarshan Kriya[1] + Wim Hof[2] + Surya Namaskar[3] (no push-ups and mountain climbing) for the past month. ~1 hour a day. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tX0M6EveGY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tX0M6EveGY [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKzkc3FWx7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKzkc3FWx7g
kojeovo 4y ago
I’ll stick to drugs
- yomkippur 4y ago
groffee 4y ago
Wim Hof is to breathing science as tic-tac-toe is to Go. It's for stupid westerners. Go to the source: http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath.pdf http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath....
- chrischattin 4y ago
  Taking quite the liberty with the term “science” eh? But then again, I’m a “stupid westerner”. The scientific method isn’t a western creation or anything like that…
- credit_guy 4y ago
  Or maybe not. The whole claim that yoga breathing can help cure all things is about as solid as the claim that rhodiola rosea is a miracle plant. Or chamomile. Lots of people will swear by it, but the scientific evidence is zero.
- spaetzleesser 4y ago
  And tic tac toe is way easier to learn for beginners. I have done yoga in a serious manner for almost 20 years but I have never seen a clear path for learning pranayama. This may be a problem with the way yoga is taught in the West but I think Win Hof deserves credit for developing and publicizing an easy to learn and effective approach to breathing techniques.
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't take HN threads into flamewar. You can make your substantive points without any of that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dementiapatien 4y ago
  Your wisdom and compassion shines through.
thunkle 4y ago
While practicing, right when I start to get lightheaded and my vision gets a little sparkIy, i have an uncontrollable mini panic attack until my vision returns to normal. It's anything but relaxing in my experience.
fhackenberger 4y ago
I'd suggest to look into Holotropic breathwork. The WH high is ahmmm tiny in comparison ;-)
spaetzleesser 4y ago
I have tried Win Hof and and other yoga pranayama several items with good success at first. But every time after a few weeks I develop a serious cough coming deep from my lungs. It's probably because of the dry air in Nevada and New Mexico but I don't know how to deal with this.
- omnimus 4y ago
  Humidifier. Don't use ultrasonic one - that will kill you.
  - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
    Why do ultrasonic humidifiers kill?
    - rogerclark 4y ago
      Instead of yielding pure water vapor like evaporative humidifiers, ultrasonic humidifiers vaporize microscopic droplets of water, which can contain minerals and other contaminants. In areas with very hard water (Nevada, for instance) this means breathing in salts all day.
      - muwtyhg 4y ago
        A simple solution is using distilled water then, correct?
        omnimus 4y ago
        The biggest problem are bacteria in my opinion. Even if you clean it all the time (which you won't because it's pain in the ass) and you have high end one with filters and anti bacteria mechanisms - it can still be pretty bad (and becomes expensive so you can buy different type). Its like if you were drinking that stale water thats been there mingling with all the bacteria all day. My close friend (oterwise perfectly healthy and fit) got really nasty breathing issues along with infection and fever. He couldn't get rid of it for weeks thinking it's COVID related. Turns out it was his high end humidifier he has for plants. Once he turned it off it was gone in a day never to come back. He swapped for some evaporator one and never had single issue. Turns out you can find many articles about this if you search for it. Some countries are even thinking about banning them.
alar44 4y ago
Just smoke a joint. What the fuck is wrong with people these days?
- yomkippur 4y ago
  > Just smoke a joint. > What the fuck is wrong with people these days? horrible advice aside, you could benefit from becoming more mindful and self-aware. clearly this crowd could use a lot of that. empathy helps too if you were shown a lot of it growing up.
  - alar44 4y ago
    Oh thank you so much. I am in debt to your wisdom.
    - pkphilip 4y ago
      :)
    - yomkippur 4y ago
      You are most welcome! I can see smoking weed has made you a wonderful, empathetic person on the internet! It's a shame your parents aren't aware of this.
PhantomBKB 4y ago
Don't mess around with your breathing without guidance. It can do more harm than good. Pranayama is an ancient Indian science passed down from saints who received these teachings as divine visions. It didn't materialize as a result of experimentation as many would assume. Even practices like Sudarshan kriya (which makes use of breathing) were passed down to Shri Shri as a divine teaching. So my advice is to not experiment with your breathing unless you have proper guidance and knowledge.
- otikik 4y ago
  First of all, I agree that breathing is too critical of a system to tamper with without a backup or assistance. I do think that the human body has a degree of flexibility though (we breathe heavily after exercise, and that's fine). > Pranayama is an ancient Indian science passed down from saints who received these teachings as divine visions I don't meant to offend, but that doesn't sound like any kind of science to me. I am sure it has helped a lot of people and a lot of people believe in it. But if it doesn't come from hypothesis, experimentation, and, in the case of medical treatments, clinical trials, it simply isn't science. Or "ancient science". There's another kind of belief system which accepts axioms coming from divine visions and divine teachings, though. It rhymes with "pigeon".
  - PhantomBKB 4y ago
    > But if it doesn't come from hypothesis, experimentation, and, in the case of medical treatments, clinical trials, it simply isn't science. Or "ancient science". Way I see it is, we humans are the most sophisticated creatures on our planet. Our birth onto earth is a natural process by all means. By natural, I mean we are a product of nature after all. We humans try to understand the nature around us including ourselves, which is what we termed as science. Our scientific thought itself is a product of nature, and they translate to our endeavors and curiosity to unravel the secrets of reality. These visions that I spoke about are nothing but the universe speaking to these great rishis. By universe, I mean nature itself. Nature is bestowing knowledge upon its own creations to aid them in understanding itself! The same nature that has imbued life into our bodies when we are born. The same body which will eventually turn to soil after it has run its course. Now, you might wonder, why nature is not bestowing these sort of gifts upon you? Frankly, I do not know myself. It is what it is. On the bright side, nature has bestowed the most fortunate gift of being born as a human being which almost as a law of nature makes the heights you can go to limitless. No other creature has the same benefits as human beings. We are born with both curiosity to ask questions and intelligence to analyze and infer profound meanings from their answers. While "we", the ordinary humans live for about a 100 years before forsaking our bodies, however there are people who live for 1000s of years. It's a realm of possibility not yet uncovered by modern science. > There's another kind of belief system which accepts axioms coming from divine visions and divine teachings, though. It rhymes with "pigeon". That only came into picture recently during the last ~2000 years. The ancient knowledge I am referring comes from way before.
hinkley 4y ago
I moved to Seattle initially to get away from cold winters. Fast forward fifteen years and I’m gardening in light rain at 55° with no jacket on. And not just, “let me finish this and go have some soup” but going out after the rain has already started. It’s quiet and nobody bothers you, it’s not that cold as long as you don’t stop moving, and weeds are easier to pull. My dad gets out his jacket when it’s 50° and dry, I’m still trying to decide if short sleeves were a bad idea. When I was a kid I was essentially nonfunctional if I was cold and we argued about that numerous times. Capillary structure in the skin plays a role, but there’s a lot of mind over matter there as well. I have some strong doubts whether random people can learn to be like Wim Hof, but I don’t doubt that random people can learn to be more like Wim Hof.
steve76 4y ago
bergenty 4y ago
I’m mildly annoyed that this is called the wim hof method and not pranayama (specifically bahi kumbhaka) when he practiced yoga for years before he came up with this. The whole process is lifted — the hyperventilation followed by the holding your breath on the exhale.

146 points by ugjka 4y ago

I use the WHM to get high on drum and bass parties. The adrenaline that you have is higher than a first timer’s bungee jump when they are on their adrenaline peak [1]. [1] on the phone right bow but it is in the PNAS article about the WHM suppressing the immune system

yellow_lead 4y ago

"Getting high" off of a breathing method sounds a bit dangerous.

Quequau 4y ago
I moderate a few hearing health forums. From time to time I see people saying they got into this and damaged their hearing / caused tinnitus.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  Yeah, there are several threads about that in the subreddit [0]. I did get the ringing in my ears when I first started. The solutions normally given are a) You are straining yourself. "Listen to your body" when to stop holding your breath (No issues there for me) and b) Breath in through your nose, out through your mouth. Breathing in through my nose completely removed the ringing noise for me. [0]: https://old.reddit.com/r/BecomingTheIceman/ https://old.reddit.com/r/BecomingTheIceman/
  - jtbayly 4y ago
    I got ringing afterwards when I tried it, found the permanent tinnitus warnings and quit immediately. I wasn’t straining. I might try once more, being careful to follow your suggestion.
    - Semaphor 4y ago
      Yeah, I was pretty scared as well and instantly googled, saw the tinnitus warnings and became worried. Luckily, the nose breathing helped, because I quite enjoy the breathing exercises.
- upsidesinclude 4y ago
  Tinnitus is mental
guzik 4y ago
It is. Hyperventilation is the body's response to CO2 levels become too low.
- amelius 4y ago
  Can CO2 be measured in a simple way? (Like an oximeter in a smartwatch measures oxygen)?
  - Enginerrrd 4y ago
    The desire to breathe in a healthy individual is a really good proxy for CO2 levels based on a wonderful design with distributed sensors throughout the body. It is not a good proxy for O2 levels in healthy individuals, but may be in people with COPD or other chronic breathing problems.
  - ta988 4y ago
    Yes there is some equipment to do transcutaneous pCO2 but that's mostly used in sleep studies AFAIK. Most of the time you use a blood test. I heard in some research they use IR on expired air not sure how common that is. If you find a "home made" way to get a (even just relative) pCO2 reading I would be highly interested.
- kuhewa 4y ago
  Hyperventilation removes CO2 from the blood
  - pcrh 4y ago
    ...which causes hypocapnia, which can be dangerous if prolonged.
- jtbayly 4y ago
  Are you sure? I would expect it to be the response to high co2 levels, since it removes co2.
  - 4y ago
yomkippur 4y ago
Getting intoxicated isn't the end goal but to relax the body and mind to boost your immune system. I take you haven't even read the article. edit: so if you think Wim Hof is just getting recreational high then you should continue taking whatever drug you are on such as lead.
- yellow_lead 4y ago
  The article doesnt talk about these benefits, only about how the author was able to re-achieve the high they were seeking. I take it you didn't read the article.
upsidesinclude 4y ago
I want to offer you two responses each of which are absolutely genuine: You must be fun at parties. If you have never experienced your own body responding to your selective input (other than Mt. Dew) you are missing out... Ever hear of a "runner's high"? Dangerous indeed! Why don't you try it out and see what happens, you have to breathe anyway
- yellow_lead 4y ago
  No thanks, I don't have tinnitus and want to keep it that way.
  - upsidesinclude 4y ago
    Uh oh, you have tinnitus https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/psychopathology-tinnitus https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/psychopathology-tinnit...

MonkeyIsNull 4y ago

What this misses is that to keep the high going remove all breath holding. It just becomes continuous circular breathing — no holds, no pauses. This has been popularized by a lot of different people: Dan Brule, Leonard Orr, Binnie Dansby, Judith Kravitz. It comes under various names like: rebirthing, transformational breath and holotropic breathwork.

vmurthy 4y ago

The author's blog post should come with a disclaimer :) . A while ago I tried a few breathing techniques which were given in a nice book [0]. I really enjoyed the after-effects of the said techniques so I decided to mix and match some of them etc. The effects were awesome .. at first. After a couple of weeks, I started feeling very low for no particular reason (no dietary changes or anything) and just downright weird. I eliminated one factor after another and checked if my energy levels were OK. I finally gave up the experiment on breathing techniques and restarted what was in the book. I am good, now. So.. despite a sample size of one and a trial which wasn't random or controlled (:)) , my advice on this whole thing : Get a qualified teacher and do what is taught. YMMV otherwise. [0] https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B07WSBS5S4/ref=kinw_myk_ro_title https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B07WSBS5S4/ref=kinw_myk_ro_...

philipwhiuk 4y ago
Well that would require some critical thinking about the pseudoscience.
- graderjs 4y ago
  Breathing exercises (and pranayama) are not pseudoscience. But the claim that they are is pseudoscience. As OP states you should be careful. Alternate nostril breathing is a good general purpose one. So is box breathing (aka Navy SEAL breathing).
  - dwringer 4y ago
    I don't think the above poster was claiming that breath exercises are pseudoscience, I think they were referring to the practice of claiming certain health benefits without scientific studies backing the claims. There are very real benefits that can be scientifically studied but there is also a lot of grandiose exaggeration and wishful thinking out there, as with every field of medicine throughout human history. It requires great care to sort out such things and that we learned to do so (at some level) is IMO one of the greatest triumphs of the modern scientific method. Now, whether science has more to learn from things like pranayama is a different subject and I think there still certainly is much to learn. But that means IMO we must be very careful in what claims we make and how we back them up. Edit: I'm not criticizing anyone or claiming anything does or doesn't work, I'm simply advocating for a scientific approach.

28304283409234 4y ago

The colors on the site, dark letters on a dark(ish) background, make it very hard for me to read

dr_dshiv 4y ago

“Bathtub breathing” is pretty amazing for producing an altered state. Basically, position yourself so that a deep breath in lifts your chest up and a breath out lets your chest sink. You can adjust so you basically breathe along with the resonant frequency of your body rising up and down in the tub. You get into a flow that is driven by natural mechanics and it can really take the mind to different places. Combines well with cannabis. Safety note: don’t drown.

ugjka 4y ago
Yeah dude, better avoid doing these kind of things in water
jtbayly 4y ago
I discovered this as a kid simply trying to relax in the tub. Could sometimes leave my airways open but stop actually breathing for long periods of time. Very relaxed state. Probably the closest thing to an altered state of consciousness I’ve ever had. Haven’t done it in decades.
windexh8er 4y ago
Don't do this. The last thing you want to be in is water doing breath work. I did a week long course with Wim Hof before he got popular, they were very adamant that you never do breath work in water. This is just ignorant and dangerous advice. I've been doing breath techniques for over 5 years now and would never do them in water even though I'm well practiced.
- edmundsauto 4y ago
  I’m considering taking a WHM afternoon class, but have been questioning my expectations. For a noob, do you think a couple hours in a workshop would be valuable? Or am I being suckered by charletons?
  - windexh8er 4y ago
    My guess is you've read "What Doesn't Kill Us" and maybe Scott Carney's other book(s). I did a week long course in Poland - I can't say enough good about my experience, I'd do it again (and am planning on it). I've not done weekend / afternoon type workshops. My guess is this is going to give you a bit more than what you've done on your own. Group breath work has a whole different flare to it (in a really good way, and I'm not an overly social person). So, it may just be an upsell into the longer courses, but I will tell you learning breath work in a group setting has an energy you don't get on your own. Plus you may pick up a few trips to help you hone in on control. Just my $0.02.

manjunaths 4y ago

¦5) Deep breath in and constrict ¦your abdomen and chest and ¦push the breath in the brain (DMT ¦breath) for 10 seconds What?! How do you "push the breath in the brain"? It would have been nice if this step had been expanded with explicit instructions.

ugjka 4y ago
"pushing in the brain" means creating high pressure in the lungs until you feel it in your head I updated my blog just now accordingly
- Enginerrrd 4y ago
  So like a valsalva maneuver? B/c we already have a word for that.
  - RealityVoid 4y ago
    I think a valsalva maneuver keeps intra-thoracic pressure high by closing up a bit lower the air pathways? At least that is how I do it, it feels like it it bottled up at about the place my larynx site.
    - Enginerrrd 4y ago
      I see, so we're talking open vs closed glottis? That makes more sense to me. An Open glottis definitely is more stimulating to the vagus nerve if nothing else so they are different.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

philipwhiuk 4y ago

The science for Wim Hof is very lacking.

jmnicolas 4y ago
The guy managed to swim around icebergs, so there's that.

brador 4y ago

The high comes from cutting oxygen to the brain, with all the side effects that brings. Do not do this.

ryanwaggoner 4y ago
Do you have a source that this kind of mild hypoxia is harmful to the brain, or is that just your conjecture? You may be right, but I’m skeptical. Starvation isn’t great for us, but there are many health benefits associated with fasting.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ta988 4y ago
  The benefits of fasting aren't that clear.
  - diydsp 4y ago
    Maybe another 146,000 papers [0] would start to clarify? [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=fasting https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=fasting
  - ryanwaggoner 4y ago
    I’m not an expert, but my understanding is that there’s a large body of research showing many benefits to fasting. That, plus anecdotal evidence from myself and others, is all I have to go on :)
1001101 4y ago
I tried this a while back with a pulse oximeter on. Didn't like what I saw. Was my first and last time.
yomkippur 4y ago
When somebody on HN says don't do something, it usually comes from a place of misinformed half baked knowledge of the subject so I say ignore these alarmists who think people are going to kill themselves by holding their breath after increasing oxygen in blood by several folds.

dav_Oz 4y ago

The high is nice but the main thing I took away - when doing WHM some years ago - is to tolerate the CO2 buildup by relaxing and calming myself. The breathing pattern can help induce this; for me additionally learning to breath comfortably through the nose was a big help. But to tolerate CO2 (and with it physiologically adapting to it) is mainly a mental challenge to put your mind into a place where you stay calm enough not to panic when the urge to breath is trying to overwhelm you. It really translates well to high-intensity sport exercises where at a certain exertion I was trying to breath too hard and too early with the mouth open in an attempt to take in as much air as possible and paradoxically feeling even more suffocated. Also great for a relaxed swimming experience. I feel once I began to apply breathing techniques into various activities throughout the day that I now got a deeper connection/appreciation/understanding/confidence for modulating my breathing. And WHM can certainly jumpstart that experience. But I personally wouldn't recommend to just chase the next high.

phonypc 4y ago
There's no buildup of CO2 with these breathing techniques. Quite the opposite.
- sateesh 4y ago
  Can you please elaborate. If you hold your breath and don't exhale for a longer period there will be CO2 buildup in the body.
  - bix6 4y ago
    Scroll down a bit. There’s a section explaining what happens. https://www.wimhofmethod.com/breathing-exercises https://www.wimhofmethod.com/breathing-exercises “When we breathe in, we take up oxygen and release carbon dioxide from our blood. Our blood is usually already fully saturated with oxygen (about 99% saturation) and breathing deeply does not raise that saturation. Breathing deeply does, however, release a lot of carbon dioxide. This, in turn, lowers the “urge to breathe”. The brain stem, specifically the pons and medulla oblongata, is sensitive to carbon dioxide. Having too much carbon dioxide in the blood will trigger your brain stem to breathe. By removing carbon dioxide from the blood through deep breathing, this impulse to breathe from the brain stem is lowered. In short, the lower the level of carbon dioxide, the longer you can hold your breath. The impulse is just not triggered yet.“

test87823 4y ago

mistrial9 4y ago

breathing is vital to life at the minute-to-minute level; breathing 'exercises' of any kind are potentially dangerous; using basic techniques to "get high" are inherently dangerous. Please do not do try breathing exercises alone; find reliable sources of information and practice.

yomkippur 4y ago
It is no more dangerous than holding your breath in to hurt yourself. Dolphins are capable of this but the human brain has mechanisms to prevent this from happening. It is hilarious reading all these armchair scientists warning against a harmless breathing exercises that is proven to be beneficial. If not, it will help you gain mindfulness. So many comments on here I feel like could benefit from that horrible danger of growing aware

crtxcr 4y ago

The following resources provide some background towards the original Wim Hof method: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24799686/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24799686/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9071023/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9071023/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpTG02x6w5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpTG02x6w5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWHRumILOOk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWHRumILOOk In short, the breathing increases epinephrine (adrenaline), which causes a spike in anti-inflammatory cytokines, and decreases inflammatory cytokines such as TNF-a. It should be added that on the web I found several reports about increased tinnitus symptoms, which usually subside after the breathing is stopped, but for some it was permanent. This is why I am not doing it regularly, as I also get some ringing, but thankfully it was not permanent. Nevertheless, I find this very method very exciting. I am glad Radboud took a look into it. However, I would love to see clinical trials on the method at last.

ffhhj 4y ago
> “pushing in the brain” means creating high pressure in the lungs until you feel it in your head. Do NOT push the air literaly into the airways in your head, that will cause tinnitus
Semaphor 4y ago
Posted this in another comment [0], but try breathing in through your nose, that stopped the ringing for me. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32285815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32285815

can16358p 4y ago

As a big fan of WHM which dramatically affects my physiology and psychology, I want to try this as soon as possible. Question to ugjka: How many rounds of your customized method do you recommend? I usually feel the most high after 3rd round, do you think I need the same, less, or more?

ugjka 4y ago
I didn't specify how many rounds precisely because you generally feel when enough is enough and you can't do this indefinitely because you get tired at some point

gits1225 4y ago

I too practice a customised breathing technique which is a combination of Sudarshan Kriya[1] + Wim Hof[2] while laying back on the floor. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tX0M6EveGY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tX0M6EveGY [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ 30 mins. Everyday after brush.

BN1978 4y ago
I respect your practice dedication. I am curious - what are the benefits you get from doing it everyday?
- gits1225 4y ago
  I'm fit. I also practice Surya Namaskar[1] + 2 minute push-ups[2] + 2 minute mountain climbing after the 30 mins breathing. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKzkc3FWx7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKzkc3FWx7g [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYbHEcYbHmI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYbHEcYbHmI
  - kuhewa 4y ago
    So to be clear you credit your fitness to the 30 min breathing and quick bodyweight exercise routine?
    - gits1225 4y ago
      Yea I have just been practicing Sudarshan Kriya[1] + Wim Hof[2] + Surya Namaskar[3] (no push-ups and mountain climbing) for the past month. ~1 hour a day. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tX0M6EveGY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tX0M6EveGY [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKzkc3FWx7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKzkc3FWx7g

kojeovo 4y ago

I’ll stick to drugs

yomkippur 4y ago

groffee 4y ago

Wim Hof is to breathing science as tic-tac-toe is to Go. It's for stupid westerners. Go to the source: http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath.pdf http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath....

chrischattin 4y ago
Taking quite the liberty with the term “science” eh? But then again, I’m a “stupid westerner”. The scientific method isn’t a western creation or anything like that…
credit_guy 4y ago
Or maybe not. The whole claim that yoga breathing can help cure all things is about as solid as the claim that rhodiola rosea is a miracle plant. Or chamomile. Lots of people will swear by it, but the scientific evidence is zero.
spaetzleesser 4y ago
And tic tac toe is way easier to learn for beginners. I have done yoga in a serious manner for almost 20 years but I have never seen a clear path for learning pranayama. This may be a problem with the way yoga is taught in the West but I think Win Hof deserves credit for developing and publicizing an easy to learn and effective approach to breathing techniques.
dang 4y ago
Please don't take HN threads into flamewar. You can make your substantive points without any of that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dementiapatien 4y ago
Your wisdom and compassion shines through.

thunkle 4y ago

While practicing, right when I start to get lightheaded and my vision gets a little sparkIy, i have an uncontrollable mini panic attack until my vision returns to normal. It's anything but relaxing in my experience.

fhackenberger 4y ago

I'd suggest to look into Holotropic breathwork. The WH high is ahmmm tiny in comparison ;-)

spaetzleesser 4y ago

I have tried Win Hof and and other yoga pranayama several items with good success at first. But every time after a few weeks I develop a serious cough coming deep from my lungs. It's probably because of the dry air in Nevada and New Mexico but I don't know how to deal with this.

omnimus 4y ago
Humidifier. Don't use ultrasonic one - that will kill you.
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  Why do ultrasonic humidifiers kill?
  - rogerclark 4y ago
    Instead of yielding pure water vapor like evaporative humidifiers, ultrasonic humidifiers vaporize microscopic droplets of water, which can contain minerals and other contaminants. In areas with very hard water (Nevada, for instance) this means breathing in salts all day.
    - muwtyhg 4y ago
      A simple solution is using distilled water then, correct?
      - omnimus 4y ago
        The biggest problem are bacteria in my opinion. Even if you clean it all the time (which you won't because it's pain in the ass) and you have high end one with filters and anti bacteria mechanisms - it can still be pretty bad (and becomes expensive so you can buy different type). Its like if you were drinking that stale water thats been there mingling with all the bacteria all day. My close friend (oterwise perfectly healthy and fit) got really nasty breathing issues along with infection and fever. He couldn't get rid of it for weeks thinking it's COVID related. Turns out it was his high end humidifier he has for plants. Once he turned it off it was gone in a day never to come back. He swapped for some evaporator one and never had single issue. Turns out you can find many articles about this if you search for it. Some countries are even thinking about banning them.

alar44 4y ago

Just smoke a joint. What the fuck is wrong with people these days?

yomkippur 4y ago
> Just smoke a joint. > What the fuck is wrong with people these days? horrible advice aside, you could benefit from becoming more mindful and self-aware. clearly this crowd could use a lot of that. empathy helps too if you were shown a lot of it growing up.
- alar44 4y ago
  Oh thank you so much. I am in debt to your wisdom.
  - pkphilip 4y ago
    :)
  - yomkippur 4y ago
    You are most welcome! I can see smoking weed has made you a wonderful, empathetic person on the internet! It's a shame your parents aren't aware of this.

PhantomBKB 4y ago

Don't mess around with your breathing without guidance. It can do more harm than good. Pranayama is an ancient Indian science passed down from saints who received these teachings as divine visions. It didn't materialize as a result of experimentation as many would assume. Even practices like Sudarshan kriya (which makes use of breathing) were passed down to Shri Shri as a divine teaching. So my advice is to not experiment with your breathing unless you have proper guidance and knowledge.

otikik 4y ago
First of all, I agree that breathing is too critical of a system to tamper with without a backup or assistance. I do think that the human body has a degree of flexibility though (we breathe heavily after exercise, and that's fine). > Pranayama is an ancient Indian science passed down from saints who received these teachings as divine visions I don't meant to offend, but that doesn't sound like any kind of science to me. I am sure it has helped a lot of people and a lot of people believe in it. But if it doesn't come from hypothesis, experimentation, and, in the case of medical treatments, clinical trials, it simply isn't science. Or "ancient science". There's another kind of belief system which accepts axioms coming from divine visions and divine teachings, though. It rhymes with "pigeon".
- PhantomBKB 4y ago
  > But if it doesn't come from hypothesis, experimentation, and, in the case of medical treatments, clinical trials, it simply isn't science. Or "ancient science". Way I see it is, we humans are the most sophisticated creatures on our planet. Our birth onto earth is a natural process by all means. By natural, I mean we are a product of nature after all. We humans try to understand the nature around us including ourselves, which is what we termed as science. Our scientific thought itself is a product of nature, and they translate to our endeavors and curiosity to unravel the secrets of reality. These visions that I spoke about are nothing but the universe speaking to these great rishis. By universe, I mean nature itself. Nature is bestowing knowledge upon its own creations to aid them in understanding itself! The same nature that has imbued life into our bodies when we are born. The same body which will eventually turn to soil after it has run its course. Now, you might wonder, why nature is not bestowing these sort of gifts upon you? Frankly, I do not know myself. It is what it is. On the bright side, nature has bestowed the most fortunate gift of being born as a human being which almost as a law of nature makes the heights you can go to limitless. No other creature has the same benefits as human beings. We are born with both curiosity to ask questions and intelligence to analyze and infer profound meanings from their answers. While "we", the ordinary humans live for about a 100 years before forsaking our bodies, however there are people who live for 1000s of years. It's a realm of possibility not yet uncovered by modern science. > There's another kind of belief system which accepts axioms coming from divine visions and divine teachings, though. It rhymes with "pigeon". That only came into picture recently during the last ~2000 years. The ancient knowledge I am referring comes from way before.

hinkley 4y ago

I moved to Seattle initially to get away from cold winters. Fast forward fifteen years and I’m gardening in light rain at 55° with no jacket on. And not just, “let me finish this and go have some soup” but going out after the rain has already started. It’s quiet and nobody bothers you, it’s not that cold as long as you don’t stop moving, and weeds are easier to pull. My dad gets out his jacket when it’s 50° and dry, I’m still trying to decide if short sleeves were a bad idea. When I was a kid I was essentially nonfunctional if I was cold and we argued about that numerous times. Capillary structure in the skin plays a role, but there’s a lot of mind over matter there as well. I have some strong doubts whether random people can learn to be like Wim Hof, but I don’t doubt that random people can learn to be more like Wim Hof.

steve76 4y ago

bergenty 4y ago

I’m mildly annoyed that this is called the wim hof method and not pranayama (specifically bahi kumbhaka) when he practiced yoga for years before he came up with this. The whole process is lifted — the hyperventilation followed by the holding your breath on the exhale.