7 ms·

"Create and develop full web applications inside your browser tab". You know what would be even better? If we could add an icon for this app to the desktop and

by butz 4y ago

"Create and develop full web applications inside your browser tab". You know what would be even better? If we could add an icon for this app to the desktop and run it as standalone application, while using the same browser engine installation. We are practically at that point where OS needs only web browser installed and all applications could be web based.

tuxracer 4y ago
This can be done today: Chrome: Menu -> More Tools -> Create Shortcut -> Check "Open as Window" Edge: Menu -> Apps -> Install this site as an app
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  I think the point is that you can't do it on Firefox anymore. You used to be able to, but the (partially incomplete) feature was removed instead rather than developed into an easy to use feature. The feature still works on Android, but the Mozilla team doesn't see a future in installing web apps apparently. PWAs are my main use for Chromium.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    > but the Mozilla team doesn't see a future in installing web apps apparently. It's absolutely the future, Firefox just isn't in that future. > PWAs are my main use for Chromium Mozilla already lost big when everyone decided to use Chromium for Electron-style apps and now they're actively running into losing big again.
michaelmrose 4y ago
What is the benefit of everything being web based over setting up automatic building of traditional packages for existing OS or building containerized packages EG flatpak.
- razemio 4y ago
  It always depends on the use case. A good example for an application being better because it is web-based is vscode. With code-server the possibilities are almost endless. This was revolutionary for me as a developer.
  - game-of-throws 4y ago
    That's remote development, and you don't need a web-based UI to do it. There's also JetBrains IDEs, any terminal editor over SSH, and probably plenty of other editors I haven't looked into.
    - razemio 4y ago
      Yes and no. There are some differences which make vscode superior to tmux/screen, ssh/fuse or rdp/vnc/nomachine based solutions. - incredibly easy to setup (only a browser is needed) and use everywhere. Even management compatible. - can be automated easily with ansible and/or docker - remote pairing without a third-party cloud in between - plug-ins just work even when being used remotely - headless chrome can be proxied to the webview of vscode (a real browser running remotely in your browser) Almost everything mentioned can be done with the tools you suggested BUT IMO it is not as smooth then just using vscode. This is coming from an arch (using arch BTW) / i3 guy.
- simion314 4y ago
  My opinion, I tried to make a quick side project, not for money,just to help someone. So the idea is what is the tool that takes me less of my free time and works for doing the job, fuck look and feel I need buttons and test only, I am also on Linux but the app needs to be cross platform and I will not buy Apple shit or Windows to do this, I done the project in Electron , I don't love it, I think is kind of a shit architecture, a duck-taped thing but it does the job for me.(also I personally prefer GC languages over c/c++ and Python syntax is not for me). But if you pay me tons of money I would build you native apps, on my free time and money I will use a shitty toolkit that does the work it suppose to do. IF Microsoft would not be an evil and stupid company maybe we could all have been now making cross platform C# apps but the bastards really wanted it to be Windows only, nice job MS.
politelemon 4y ago
You're talking about PWAs, right? It's still bizarre to be that the feature was dropped. PWAs are the top idea on their feedback site as well. I suppose while it has your attention, please vote for that feature https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/bring-back-pwa-progressive-web-apps/idi-p/35 https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/bring-back-pwa-progress...
- fuzzzerd 4y ago
  Crazy that they removed it. It works well on Firefox for Android, and it used to work fine in Firefox desktop too.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Mozilla seems to stray further and further every day. Some stuff is great, but like we still can't install whatever extensions we want on Firefox android without deeply jumping into dev features.
  - erichdongubler 4y ago
    I currently use the Lynket browser (which can leverage Chrome Custom Tabs to present each Firefox tab as an Android app per tab) and shortcuts to web links to get most of the feel of a PWA. Would recommend it if you're interested. :)
- Volundr 4y ago
  I had no idea this was removed. Ugh that's really distressing.
- culi 4y ago
  What the hell? When did this happen? PWAs are some of the most exciting developments in web development. Did they give any reasoning about this decision anywhere?
  - thayne 4y ago
    The reasoning was that their implementation was buggy, and added tech debt, and they didn't think that PWAs on Desktop were useful.
sorenjan 4y ago
Firefox recently removed support for SSB (Site Specific Browser) and PWA (Progressive Web Apps). That's the only reason I have Chrome installed, since I like to have different apps in different windows, and keep my browser tabs for websites. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1348811 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1348811
- fariszr 4y ago
  I think it would be better to have chromium or brave installed of chromium, since you use FireFox.
- zeorin 4y ago
  You could use different Firefox profiles for this...
  - afavour 4y ago
    But the icon in the task bar would always be the Firefox one. PWAs solve all the problems here.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    I've tried a lot of things. Every option I'm aware of sucks. Even using multiple profiles (which would mostly break the reasons to want to use the same browser) is not really supported (lots of issues with window switching on both Linux and macOS).
- ReactiveJelly 4y ago
  I just open multiple browser windows...
  - sorenjan 4y ago
    I don't need or want the browser chrome like tabs and toolbars on those windows, and I usually pin them in the taskbar using their own icons. Makes alt-tab nicer too. I don't use it myself, but PWAs can also register as file handlers and be used to open files like any other installed program, which would be handy for image editors and similar. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/progressive-web-apps-chromium/how-to/handle-files https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/progressive-...
croes 4y ago
All applications and all malware. You don't want web apps to get write access to your HDD.
- sp332 4y ago
  Web apps run in the browser sandbox. They don't generally have access to the filesystem.
  - mr_toad 4y ago
    This uses the file system API, which users can use to grant read and write access to entire folders. Malicious apps will never trick users into granting access to folders they shouldn’t, whereupon they won’t have their files exfiltrated, encrypted, and held to ransom.
  - croes 4y ago
    Parent writes about all applications to be web based, all appliactions without access to the filesystem are hardly possible.
mr_toad 4y ago
Firefox command line has multiple options for passing a URL.
- thayne 4y ago
  But none of them allow you to open the url in a new window, with minimal chrome, where clicking on a link opens in your main browser instead of a new tab in the current window. And you can't customize the appId so the window manager treats as another firefox window, not a separate app.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    > And you can't customize the appId so the window manager treats as another firefox window, not a separate app IIRC that's actually possible on Linux, but a big pain and, like most command line switches, pretty undocumented. But yeah, Firefox generally sucks for this use case and it's insane. It would be borderline trivial to implement, immensely useful and they've actually gone backwards on this type of stuff in many instances.
ilaksh 4y ago
They did that awhile ago. It's called ChromeOS. The browser is essentially an overlay operating system. Kind of a crap one though. Web assembly could be the basis for something that could break out of the browser.
apatheticonion 4y ago
Electron exists entirely because the web platform does not have access to lower level APIs. When the web incorporates these features (e.g. FileSystem Access), PWAs will replace electron. Throw in "when Web Assembly can interact with the DOM and browser APIs" and you have the most powerful cross-language, cross-platform UI toolkit in existence. It'll mark the year of the Linux desktop... probably, maybe - please.
- ridiculous_fish 4y ago
  Can PWAs use multiple windows, native menu bars or context menus, etc? I would not call those APIs "low level."
  - jakelazaroff 4y ago
    You’re right, and I actually think the web would benefit greatly from a native context menu API!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Depends if the browser is based on Chrome, thus an extension of ChromeOS, or not. https://web.dev/learn/pwa/windows https://web.dev/learn/pwa/windows https://web.dev/app-like-pwas/ https://web.dev/app-like-pwas/ https://whatwebcando.today/ https://whatwebcando.today/
- solarkraft 4y ago
  100% of the web apps I currently use in the browser don't need these APIs to function (Twitter, Tidal, HN, YouTube, whatever really).

by butz 4y ago

tuxracer 4y ago

This can be done today: Chrome: Menu -> More Tools -> Create Shortcut -> Check "Open as Window" Edge: Menu -> Apps -> Install this site as an app

jeroenhd 4y ago
I think the point is that you can't do it on Firefox anymore. You used to be able to, but the (partially incomplete) feature was removed instead rather than developed into an easy to use feature. The feature still works on Android, but the Mozilla team doesn't see a future in installing web apps apparently. PWAs are my main use for Chromium.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  > but the Mozilla team doesn't see a future in installing web apps apparently. It's absolutely the future, Firefox just isn't in that future. > PWAs are my main use for Chromium Mozilla already lost big when everyone decided to use Chromium for Electron-style apps and now they're actively running into losing big again.

michaelmrose 4y ago

What is the benefit of everything being web based over setting up automatic building of traditional packages for existing OS or building containerized packages EG flatpak.

razemio 4y ago
It always depends on the use case. A good example for an application being better because it is web-based is vscode. With code-server the possibilities are almost endless. This was revolutionary for me as a developer.
- game-of-throws 4y ago
  That's remote development, and you don't need a web-based UI to do it. There's also JetBrains IDEs, any terminal editor over SSH, and probably plenty of other editors I haven't looked into.
  - razemio 4y ago
    Yes and no. There are some differences which make vscode superior to tmux/screen, ssh/fuse or rdp/vnc/nomachine based solutions. - incredibly easy to setup (only a browser is needed) and use everywhere. Even management compatible. - can be automated easily with ansible and/or docker - remote pairing without a third-party cloud in between - plug-ins just work even when being used remotely - headless chrome can be proxied to the webview of vscode (a real browser running remotely in your browser) Almost everything mentioned can be done with the tools you suggested BUT IMO it is not as smooth then just using vscode. This is coming from an arch (using arch BTW) / i3 guy.
simion314 4y ago
My opinion, I tried to make a quick side project, not for money,just to help someone. So the idea is what is the tool that takes me less of my free time and works for doing the job, fuck look and feel I need buttons and test only, I am also on Linux but the app needs to be cross platform and I will not buy Apple shit or Windows to do this, I done the project in Electron , I don't love it, I think is kind of a shit architecture, a duck-taped thing but it does the job for me.(also I personally prefer GC languages over c/c++ and Python syntax is not for me). But if you pay me tons of money I would build you native apps, on my free time and money I will use a shitty toolkit that does the work it suppose to do. IF Microsoft would not be an evil and stupid company maybe we could all have been now making cross platform C# apps but the bastards really wanted it to be Windows only, nice job MS.

politelemon 4y ago

You're talking about PWAs, right? It's still bizarre to be that the feature was dropped. PWAs are the top idea on their feedback site as well. I suppose while it has your attention, please vote for that feature https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/bring-back-pwa-progressive-web-apps/idi-p/35 https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/bring-back-pwa-progress...

fuzzzerd 4y ago
Crazy that they removed it. It works well on Firefox for Android, and it used to work fine in Firefox desktop too.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  Mozilla seems to stray further and further every day. Some stuff is great, but like we still can't install whatever extensions we want on Firefox android without deeply jumping into dev features.
- erichdongubler 4y ago
  I currently use the Lynket browser (which can leverage Chrome Custom Tabs to present each Firefox tab as an Android app per tab) and shortcuts to web links to get most of the feel of a PWA. Would recommend it if you're interested. :)
Volundr 4y ago
I had no idea this was removed. Ugh that's really distressing.
culi 4y ago
What the hell? When did this happen? PWAs are some of the most exciting developments in web development. Did they give any reasoning about this decision anywhere?
- thayne 4y ago
  The reasoning was that their implementation was buggy, and added tech debt, and they didn't think that PWAs on Desktop were useful.

sorenjan 4y ago

Firefox recently removed support for SSB (Site Specific Browser) and PWA (Progressive Web Apps). That's the only reason I have Chrome installed, since I like to have different apps in different windows, and keep my browser tabs for websites. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1348811 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1348811

fariszr 4y ago
I think it would be better to have chromium or brave installed of chromium, since you use FireFox.
zeorin 4y ago
You could use different Firefox profiles for this...
- afavour 4y ago
  But the icon in the task bar would always be the Firefox one. PWAs solve all the problems here.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  I've tried a lot of things. Every option I'm aware of sucks. Even using multiple profiles (which would mostly break the reasons to want to use the same browser) is not really supported (lots of issues with window switching on both Linux and macOS).
ReactiveJelly 4y ago
I just open multiple browser windows...
- sorenjan 4y ago
  I don't need or want the browser chrome like tabs and toolbars on those windows, and I usually pin them in the taskbar using their own icons. Makes alt-tab nicer too. I don't use it myself, but PWAs can also register as file handlers and be used to open files like any other installed program, which would be handy for image editors and similar. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/progressive-web-apps-chromium/how-to/handle-files https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/progressive-...

croes 4y ago

All applications and all malware. You don't want web apps to get write access to your HDD.

sp332 4y ago
Web apps run in the browser sandbox. They don't generally have access to the filesystem.
- mr_toad 4y ago
  This uses the file system API, which users can use to grant read and write access to entire folders. Malicious apps will never trick users into granting access to folders they shouldn’t, whereupon they won’t have their files exfiltrated, encrypted, and held to ransom.
- croes 4y ago
  Parent writes about all applications to be web based, all appliactions without access to the filesystem are hardly possible.

mr_toad 4y ago

Firefox command line has multiple options for passing a URL.

thayne 4y ago
But none of them allow you to open the url in a new window, with minimal chrome, where clicking on a link opens in your main browser instead of a new tab in the current window. And you can't customize the appId so the window manager treats as another firefox window, not a separate app.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  > And you can't customize the appId so the window manager treats as another firefox window, not a separate app IIRC that's actually possible on Linux, but a big pain and, like most command line switches, pretty undocumented. But yeah, Firefox generally sucks for this use case and it's insane. It would be borderline trivial to implement, immensely useful and they've actually gone backwards on this type of stuff in many instances.

ilaksh 4y ago

They did that awhile ago. It's called ChromeOS. The browser is essentially an overlay operating system. Kind of a crap one though. Web assembly could be the basis for something that could break out of the browser.

apatheticonion 4y ago

Electron exists entirely because the web platform does not have access to lower level APIs. When the web incorporates these features (e.g. FileSystem Access), PWAs will replace electron. Throw in "when Web Assembly can interact with the DOM and browser APIs" and you have the most powerful cross-language, cross-platform UI toolkit in existence. It'll mark the year of the Linux desktop... probably, maybe - please.

ridiculous_fish 4y ago
Can PWAs use multiple windows, native menu bars or context menus, etc? I would not call those APIs "low level."
- jakelazaroff 4y ago
  You’re right, and I actually think the web would benefit greatly from a native context menu API!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Depends if the browser is based on Chrome, thus an extension of ChromeOS, or not. https://web.dev/learn/pwa/windows https://web.dev/learn/pwa/windows https://web.dev/app-like-pwas/ https://web.dev/app-like-pwas/ https://whatwebcando.today/ https://whatwebcando.today/
solarkraft 4y ago
100% of the web apps I currently use in the browser don't need these APIs to function (Twitter, Tidal, HN, YouTube, whatever really).