6 ms·

I used to vape. I even made my own vape juice, for a time, which is quite a bit easier than brewing your own beer! Note that the linked Harvard study is from 2

by teach 4y ago

I used to vape. I even made my own vape juice, for a time, which is quite a bit easier than brewing your own beer! Note that the linked Harvard study is from 2015(!); the vast majority of vape juices no longer contain diacetyl. Acetylpropionyl is the replacement and I guess we're not sure if that has similar problems. In any case, vaping is UNQUESTIONABLY better than smoking cigarettes. Edit: note that DIY e-liquid recipes often disclose relatively responsibly. See for example, this recipe for "strawberry fog", which I mixed up a couple of times: https://e-liquid-recipes.com/recipe/226322/strawberry%20fog https://e-liquid-recipes.com/recipe/226322/strawberry%20fog (My "house" recipe was this strawberry lemonade, which doesn't contain anything even similar to diacetyl: https://e-liquid-recipes.com/recipe/3832603/Strawberry%20Lemonade https://e-liquid-recipes.com/recipe/3832603/Strawberry%20Lem...)

daenz 4y ago
>In any case, vaping is UNQUESTIONABLY better than smoking cigarettes. Why does this matter though? Both are still bad for your body and we shouldn't be encouraging them.
- Clubber 4y ago
  Because many smokers, probably in the millions, have successfully used vapes to quit smoking. I would guess all this is propaganda to try to ban vapes but keep cigarettes legal. UK's NHS actually promotes vaping as a smoking cessation as policy. Here's the NHS page on e-cigarettes. You don't see the constant fear mongering you get from the US. I wonder why. https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/using-e-cigarettes-to-stop-smoking/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/using-e-cigarettes... There is a financial incentive in the US for the government to do this based on the tobacco master settlement agreement in which the tobacco companies give the states money based on smoking rates. Lower smoking rates, less money in the budgets. Ban the most successful smoking cessation tool, get more money when people go back to smoking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agre... Edit: Source: 19% of people who used vapes to quit smoking still weren't smoking after a year. This compares to 9% for other cessation products. It's the most successful cessation product by more than double. https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/vaping/vaping-smoking-cessation-tool-pros-cons https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/vaping/vaping-smoking-... In 2019, there were approximately 50.6 million smokers, so it would be pretty easy to say at least a million people quit smoking using vapes with a 19% success rate. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33211681/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33211681/ In 2022, there are nearly 40 million smokers, so in 3 years, over 10 million people quit. If just 10% of those who quit used vapes, that's a million. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/index.htm Unfortunately for me, I'm one of the people who quit smoking using Juul. As soon as they are banned, I will most likely go back to smoking. I wish that wasn't the case, but it probably will be. Bad for me, bad for you, great for state budgets.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    If they’re a smoking cessation product, then we should require a prescription so that the companies pushing vapes don’t attract a new generation of users who have used neither.
    - Clubber 4y ago
      Ya perhaps. As long as it isn't over-burdensome like typical prescripts are, I'd say 1 prescription lasts a year. Nicorette used to require a prescription, but they stopped it after a decade or two. Of course that's not the objective. The objective is to ban it. That's why you won't hear any sensible dialog about it.
      - bena 4y ago
        Nicorette has the advantage of tasting bad. No one is going to buy it unless they want to quit smoking.
        Clubber 4y ago
        Kids don't vape because it tastes good, they vape because of the nicotine. Cigarettes taste really bad, kids don't smoke because of the taste of cigarettes either, they smoke because of the nicotine. The whole candy flavor attracting kids is just some more BS IMO, kinda like the whole "pot is a gateway drug" thing. Also mint Nicorette taste pretty good.
        bena 4y ago
        If vaping tasted like unwashed ass, it would be far less popular. And smoking is a lot like coffee, some people do enjoy the taste/smell. And others like the effects more than they dislike the taste. So the fact that vaping tastes better than both Nicorette and cigarettes makes it an easier sell. No one is doing it because it tastes good, but because it tastes good, it's easier to start.
    - KMnO4 4y ago
- photochemsyn 4y ago
  Smoking cigarettes generates PAH (polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons) and the more you inhale, the more likely they are to cause cancer. Specifically benzo[a]pyrene has been shown to form DNA adducts, which can alter replication and generate cancer cells by damaging DNA elements involved in cell cycle control, or by damaging components of the immune system involved in normal detection and elimination of cancer cells. Vaping nicotine has some negative health effects, but there's no evidence it leads to lung cancer, because it doesn't generate those PAHs.
  - munk-a 4y ago
    Yea so we're all in agreement that vaping isn't as bad as smoking - that doesn't change the OP's point that vaping is still bad and something we should probably seek to discourage. Young folks I've worked with vape a lot I've met people in their 20s that put people with chain smoking habits in their 50s to shame when it comes to stepping out to smoke/vape. Profiting off of driving an addiction with health side effect is abhorrent - to me at least.
- popularrecluse 4y ago
  Because vaping is an effective tool for quitting smoking, which is much worse. The physical improvements from smoking to vaping are pretty remarkable - everything from lung function to circulation and skin quality and general energy improves. It helped me quit my decade-plus long smoking habit, and I'm now 3+ years off of vaping as well. I hate to see vaping demonized, but I also don't particularly care to see kids take it up. It's just as, if not more addictive than cigarettes.
  - daenz 4y ago
    Huh thanks, I didn't know so many vapers were ex smokers. I always thought it was some new fad.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      It started among ex-smokers, but moved to teens especially as it went from "specialty shops" to "in drug stores". At this point, the number of ex smokers is the minority.
    - bcrosby95 4y ago
      Every vaper I know is an ex-smoker. But I'm also 40 so I don't know many people that would be taking something like this up as a new thing.
      - ev1 4y ago
        I'm close to ~half your age, and every vaper I know started vaping from clean-slate. Absolutely zero of them were ex-smokers or have ever touched a cigarette. I honestly cannot name a single ex-smoker in my circle or a degree or two removed - all of them started vaping to vape. Almost all of them started before 18. I don't know of a single person using it as a cessation device. Anecdotal, of course, but still, didn't expect such big of a difference compared to your post.
        Clubber 4y ago
        How many of those people would have picked up cigarettes if vapes never existed? Probably a bunch.
- KMnO4 4y ago
  The “abstinence only” approach is proven to wholly ineffective. By all means, you shouldn’t encourage non-smokers to take up vaping, but encouraging smokers to switch to vaping is undoubtedly beneficial to their health. You can replace vaping with “any vice that can replace a similar vice but have less detrimental effects”. You can’t stop free will; you can only reduce the harm.
  - daenz 4y ago
    >The “abstinence only” approach is proven to wholly ineffective. This isn't sex. There isn't a biological imperative to vape. Abstinence absolutely works with some things. Abstaining from ever trying heroin, for example, is a great way to never become a heroin addict.
    - t-writescode 4y ago
      > This isn't sex. True, but we tried "abstinence only" with The Prohibition, too, and that didn't work, either.
      - daenz 4y ago
        True, alcohol prohibition is an example of abstinence not working on something that also isn't biologically driven. I would argue that alcohol probably has too strong of cultural/social foothold for abstinence to work. I don't think smoking/vaping is on the level of alcohol though.
- t-writescode 4y ago
  Everything is bad for your body. At what level of danger do we start banning it (for adults)? Is vaping safer than alcohol?
  - oceanplexian 4y ago
    Obesity kills more people than even smoking old fashioned cigarettes, so in my opinion it's all a farce. The government doesn't care about your health, they care about taking your money.
    - daenz 4y ago
      We've made it deeply unpopular to discourage obesity in society.
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      Obesity is much harder to deal with. You can't stop eating food.
  - daenz 4y ago
    >Everything is bad for your body. Slippery slope. Just because everything is some degree of bad, it doesn't mean there are very large differences in the degree of bad. Reasonable people are able to draw lines between those degrees and be roughly in sync with each other. The philosophical exercise of saying everything is bad is not very interesting to me.
    - ziddoap 4y ago
      >Just because everything is some degree of bad, it doesn't mean there are very large differences in the degree of bad. Says the guy that said: >Both are still bad for your body and we shouldn't be encouraging them Have you stopped to use your own logic for a second, and maybe conclude that encouraging smokers to quit via vaping (if they cannot otherwise) would be a good thing? Because they have very large differences in the degree of bad?
      - 4y ago
- mimikatz 4y ago
  It doesn't need "encouraging" consuming nicotine to feel good is something humans have done for centuries. People like nicotine, same way they like drinking, like smoking week, or like eating a donut. None of those things are healthy, but humans like it and like the way it makes us feel. It isn't about encouraging it, it is about driving demand to safer pathways.
mike10921 4y ago
1000% agree. The whole narrative to non-stop discuss vaping as opposed to smoking is being pushed by the super powerful cigarette companies. Vaping MIGHT be harmful to a person but cigarettes are 100% CONFIRMED to be terrible for humans. Anyone who tries to tell me vaping might be worse I send them to this YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pwj6BuS8Ds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pwj6BuS8Ds
- mikotodomo 4y ago
  Yeah vaping is lit. It's funny how we are 100x more healthy than our grandparents and they are trying to encourage us to do bad things like them like eat white bread, pretemd COVID doesn't exist, and smoke cigarettes instead of vape.
  - gkilmain 4y ago
    Why are you assuming that our grandparents are pushing the narrative? Money / greed doesn't care about your age group.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    > smoke cigarettes instead of vape. They want you to not smoke or vape. It's not like you have to choose one or the other.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > 1000% agree. The whole narrative to non-stop discuss vaping as opposed to smoking is being pushed by the super powerful cigarette companies. Vaping MIGHT be harmful to a person but cigarettes are 100% CONFIRMED to be terrible for humans. Huh? Is anyone significant actually saying vaping is so harmful that you should smoke cigarettes instead? IIRC, the actual health issue with vaping was that it had been presented as so "harmless" that, after significant long-term declines, nonsmoking teens started taking up nicotine use again in large numbers.
  - beckingz 4y ago
    The tobacco companies.
pcthrowaway 4y ago
I also used to vape. I still do, but I used to too.
hedora 4y ago
Regulatory capture explains most of these anti-vaping campaigns: > Some studies have suggested that e-cigarette use can be modestly helpful for smokers trying to quit. For example, an analysis of 61 studies found that e-cigarette use was more effective than other approaches to quitting smoking. The study authors estimated that out of every 100 people who tried to quit smoking by vaping, nine to 14 might be successful. When only using other methods, such as nicotine patches or behavioral counselling, only four to seven smokers out of 100 might quit. A separate study suggests vaping may help smokers who aren’t able to quit reduce the number of cigarettes smoked per day — at least for six months, the duration of the study. Doubling the chances people can effectively stop smoking is no good for profits. Source: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/can-vaping-help-you-quit-smoking-2019022716086 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/can-vaping-help-you-quit...
- woodruffw 4y ago
  Hm? My understanding is that most of the "Big Tobacco" companies have gone all in on smokeless cigarettes and other nicotine delivery technologies, since that's where the young (and growing market is). Philip Morris, for example, is the pinnace of "Big Tobacco" and is currently all in on "transforming" themselves into a "smoke-free" company[1]. [1]: https://www.pmi.com/ https://www.pmi.com/
  - hedora 4y ago
    True, but the regulations they push through often happen to only impact smaller competitors, or only impact things people are actually using to quit smoking. Also, their VEEV vapes are only available in tobacco and menthol flavors, and those flavors have been shown to be less effective for tobacco cessation. (They also tried to push through laws banning other flavors, if I remember right.) Pre-empting the "think of the childeren" responses; tobacco marketed to kids continues to be widely available: https://shipfest.org/vaping-for-kids-the-top-10-vape-brands-of-2021/ https://shipfest.org/vaping-for-kids-the-top-10-vape-brands-... Check out the Pod Juice Freeze "Strawberry Kiwi Pomberry", for example. If not for the big nicotine warning on the bottom half of the label, I wouldn't be surprised if parents confused it with kids' Pedialyte, or some sort of DIY popsicle mix: https://www.ejuices.com/ https://www.ejuices.com/
gpcr1949 4y ago
It would surprise me if acetylpropionyl will not have similar effects, it is a close analog of diacetyl, and an equally reactive alpha dicarbonyl substance, and for example generates free radicals at a similar rate as diacetyl[0] and at a higher rate than other flavorings. The only difference with diacetyl is probably that diacetyl's harms are more well-documented. Speaking of beer brewing: diacetyl is actually generated during the brewing process and, although considered an off-flavor[1], is important for the characteristic aroma of some beers, one famous example is Pilsner Urquell. [0] https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.chemrestox.8b00400 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.chemrestox.8b00400 (figure 5) [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/jib.205 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/jib.205
- feet 4y ago
  From a harm reduction philosophy point of view it's honestly just best to have no flavoring whatsoever. All flavorings used are from food products which have been approved for oral use and not inhalation. We have no idea what these compounds are doing to the lungs or other tissues when bypassing first pass metabolism. From my perspective it would be the least harmful to stick with just nicotine + PG/glycerol.

by teach 4y ago

daenz 4y ago

>In any case, vaping is UNQUESTIONABLY better than smoking cigarettes. Why does this matter though? Both are still bad for your body and we shouldn't be encouraging them.

Clubber 4y ago
Because many smokers, probably in the millions, have successfully used vapes to quit smoking. I would guess all this is propaganda to try to ban vapes but keep cigarettes legal. UK's NHS actually promotes vaping as a smoking cessation as policy. Here's the NHS page on e-cigarettes. You don't see the constant fear mongering you get from the US. I wonder why. https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/using-e-cigarettes-to-stop-smoking/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/using-e-cigarettes... There is a financial incentive in the US for the government to do this based on the tobacco master settlement agreement in which the tobacco companies give the states money based on smoking rates. Lower smoking rates, less money in the budgets. Ban the most successful smoking cessation tool, get more money when people go back to smoking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agre... Edit: Source: 19% of people who used vapes to quit smoking still weren't smoking after a year. This compares to 9% for other cessation products. It's the most successful cessation product by more than double. https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/vaping/vaping-smoking-cessation-tool-pros-cons https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/vaping/vaping-smoking-... In 2019, there were approximately 50.6 million smokers, so it would be pretty easy to say at least a million people quit smoking using vapes with a 19% success rate. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33211681/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33211681/ In 2022, there are nearly 40 million smokers, so in 3 years, over 10 million people quit. If just 10% of those who quit used vapes, that's a million. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/index.htm Unfortunately for me, I'm one of the people who quit smoking using Juul. As soon as they are banned, I will most likely go back to smoking. I wish that wasn't the case, but it probably will be. Bad for me, bad for you, great for state budgets.
- kube-system 4y ago
  If they’re a smoking cessation product, then we should require a prescription so that the companies pushing vapes don’t attract a new generation of users who have used neither.
  - Clubber 4y ago
    Ya perhaps. As long as it isn't over-burdensome like typical prescripts are, I'd say 1 prescription lasts a year. Nicorette used to require a prescription, but they stopped it after a decade or two. Of course that's not the objective. The objective is to ban it. That's why you won't hear any sensible dialog about it.
    - bena 4y ago
      Nicorette has the advantage of tasting bad. No one is going to buy it unless they want to quit smoking.
      - Clubber 4y ago
        Kids don't vape because it tastes good, they vape because of the nicotine. Cigarettes taste really bad, kids don't smoke because of the taste of cigarettes either, they smoke because of the nicotine. The whole candy flavor attracting kids is just some more BS IMO, kinda like the whole "pot is a gateway drug" thing. Also mint Nicorette taste pretty good.
        bena 4y ago
        If vaping tasted like unwashed ass, it would be far less popular. And smoking is a lot like coffee, some people do enjoy the taste/smell. And others like the effects more than they dislike the taste. So the fact that vaping tastes better than both Nicorette and cigarettes makes it an easier sell. No one is doing it because it tastes good, but because it tastes good, it's easier to start.
  - KMnO4 4y ago
photochemsyn 4y ago
Smoking cigarettes generates PAH (polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons) and the more you inhale, the more likely they are to cause cancer. Specifically benzo[a]pyrene has been shown to form DNA adducts, which can alter replication and generate cancer cells by damaging DNA elements involved in cell cycle control, or by damaging components of the immune system involved in normal detection and elimination of cancer cells. Vaping nicotine has some negative health effects, but there's no evidence it leads to lung cancer, because it doesn't generate those PAHs.
- munk-a 4y ago
  Yea so we're all in agreement that vaping isn't as bad as smoking - that doesn't change the OP's point that vaping is still bad and something we should probably seek to discourage. Young folks I've worked with vape a lot I've met people in their 20s that put people with chain smoking habits in their 50s to shame when it comes to stepping out to smoke/vape. Profiting off of driving an addiction with health side effect is abhorrent - to me at least.
popularrecluse 4y ago
Because vaping is an effective tool for quitting smoking, which is much worse. The physical improvements from smoking to vaping are pretty remarkable - everything from lung function to circulation and skin quality and general energy improves. It helped me quit my decade-plus long smoking habit, and I'm now 3+ years off of vaping as well. I hate to see vaping demonized, but I also don't particularly care to see kids take it up. It's just as, if not more addictive than cigarettes.
- daenz 4y ago
  Huh thanks, I didn't know so many vapers were ex smokers. I always thought it was some new fad.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    It started among ex-smokers, but moved to teens especially as it went from "specialty shops" to "in drug stores". At this point, the number of ex smokers is the minority.
  - bcrosby95 4y ago
    Every vaper I know is an ex-smoker. But I'm also 40 so I don't know many people that would be taking something like this up as a new thing.
    - ev1 4y ago
      I'm close to ~half your age, and every vaper I know started vaping from clean-slate. Absolutely zero of them were ex-smokers or have ever touched a cigarette. I honestly cannot name a single ex-smoker in my circle or a degree or two removed - all of them started vaping to vape. Almost all of them started before 18. I don't know of a single person using it as a cessation device. Anecdotal, of course, but still, didn't expect such big of a difference compared to your post.
      - Clubber 4y ago
        How many of those people would have picked up cigarettes if vapes never existed? Probably a bunch.
KMnO4 4y ago
The “abstinence only” approach is proven to wholly ineffective. By all means, you shouldn’t encourage non-smokers to take up vaping, but encouraging smokers to switch to vaping is undoubtedly beneficial to their health. You can replace vaping with “any vice that can replace a similar vice but have less detrimental effects”. You can’t stop free will; you can only reduce the harm.
- daenz 4y ago
  >The “abstinence only” approach is proven to wholly ineffective. This isn't sex. There isn't a biological imperative to vape. Abstinence absolutely works with some things. Abstaining from ever trying heroin, for example, is a great way to never become a heroin addict.
  - t-writescode 4y ago
    > This isn't sex. True, but we tried "abstinence only" with The Prohibition, too, and that didn't work, either.
    - daenz 4y ago
      True, alcohol prohibition is an example of abstinence not working on something that also isn't biologically driven. I would argue that alcohol probably has too strong of cultural/social foothold for abstinence to work. I don't think smoking/vaping is on the level of alcohol though.
t-writescode 4y ago
Everything is bad for your body. At what level of danger do we start banning it (for adults)? Is vaping safer than alcohol?
- oceanplexian 4y ago
  Obesity kills more people than even smoking old fashioned cigarettes, so in my opinion it's all a farce. The government doesn't care about your health, they care about taking your money.
  - daenz 4y ago
    We've made it deeply unpopular to discourage obesity in society.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    Obesity is much harder to deal with. You can't stop eating food.
- daenz 4y ago
  >Everything is bad for your body. Slippery slope. Just because everything is some degree of bad, it doesn't mean there are very large differences in the degree of bad. Reasonable people are able to draw lines between those degrees and be roughly in sync with each other. The philosophical exercise of saying everything is bad is not very interesting to me.
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    >Just because everything is some degree of bad, it doesn't mean there are very large differences in the degree of bad. Says the guy that said: >Both are still bad for your body and we shouldn't be encouraging them Have you stopped to use your own logic for a second, and maybe conclude that encouraging smokers to quit via vaping (if they cannot otherwise) would be a good thing? Because they have very large differences in the degree of bad?
    - 4y ago
mimikatz 4y ago
It doesn't need "encouraging" consuming nicotine to feel good is something humans have done for centuries. People like nicotine, same way they like drinking, like smoking week, or like eating a donut. None of those things are healthy, but humans like it and like the way it makes us feel. It isn't about encouraging it, it is about driving demand to safer pathways.

mike10921 4y ago

1000% agree. The whole narrative to non-stop discuss vaping as opposed to smoking is being pushed by the super powerful cigarette companies. Vaping MIGHT be harmful to a person but cigarettes are 100% CONFIRMED to be terrible for humans. Anyone who tries to tell me vaping might be worse I send them to this YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pwj6BuS8Ds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pwj6BuS8Ds

mikotodomo 4y ago
Yeah vaping is lit. It's funny how we are 100x more healthy than our grandparents and they are trying to encourage us to do bad things like them like eat white bread, pretemd COVID doesn't exist, and smoke cigarettes instead of vape.
- gkilmain 4y ago
  Why are you assuming that our grandparents are pushing the narrative? Money / greed doesn't care about your age group.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > smoke cigarettes instead of vape. They want you to not smoke or vape. It's not like you have to choose one or the other.
tablespoon 4y ago
> 1000% agree. The whole narrative to non-stop discuss vaping as opposed to smoking is being pushed by the super powerful cigarette companies. Vaping MIGHT be harmful to a person but cigarettes are 100% CONFIRMED to be terrible for humans. Huh? Is anyone significant actually saying vaping is so harmful that you should smoke cigarettes instead? IIRC, the actual health issue with vaping was that it had been presented as so "harmless" that, after significant long-term declines, nonsmoking teens started taking up nicotine use again in large numbers.
- beckingz 4y ago
  The tobacco companies.

pcthrowaway 4y ago

I also used to vape. I still do, but I used to too.

hedora 4y ago

Regulatory capture explains most of these anti-vaping campaigns: > Some studies have suggested that e-cigarette use can be modestly helpful for smokers trying to quit. For example, an analysis of 61 studies found that e-cigarette use was more effective than other approaches to quitting smoking. The study authors estimated that out of every 100 people who tried to quit smoking by vaping, nine to 14 might be successful. When only using other methods, such as nicotine patches or behavioral counselling, only four to seven smokers out of 100 might quit. A separate study suggests vaping may help smokers who aren’t able to quit reduce the number of cigarettes smoked per day — at least for six months, the duration of the study. Doubling the chances people can effectively stop smoking is no good for profits. Source: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/can-vaping-help-you-quit-smoking-2019022716086 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/can-vaping-help-you-quit...

woodruffw 4y ago
Hm? My understanding is that most of the "Big Tobacco" companies have gone all in on smokeless cigarettes and other nicotine delivery technologies, since that's where the young (and growing market is). Philip Morris, for example, is the pinnace of "Big Tobacco" and is currently all in on "transforming" themselves into a "smoke-free" company[1]. [1]: https://www.pmi.com/ https://www.pmi.com/
- hedora 4y ago
  True, but the regulations they push through often happen to only impact smaller competitors, or only impact things people are actually using to quit smoking. Also, their VEEV vapes are only available in tobacco and menthol flavors, and those flavors have been shown to be less effective for tobacco cessation. (They also tried to push through laws banning other flavors, if I remember right.) Pre-empting the "think of the childeren" responses; tobacco marketed to kids continues to be widely available: https://shipfest.org/vaping-for-kids-the-top-10-vape-brands-of-2021/ https://shipfest.org/vaping-for-kids-the-top-10-vape-brands-... Check out the Pod Juice Freeze "Strawberry Kiwi Pomberry", for example. If not for the big nicotine warning on the bottom half of the label, I wouldn't be surprised if parents confused it with kids' Pedialyte, or some sort of DIY popsicle mix: https://www.ejuices.com/ https://www.ejuices.com/

gpcr1949 4y ago

It would surprise me if acetylpropionyl will not have similar effects, it is a close analog of diacetyl, and an equally reactive alpha dicarbonyl substance, and for example generates free radicals at a similar rate as diacetyl[0] and at a higher rate than other flavorings. The only difference with diacetyl is probably that diacetyl's harms are more well-documented. Speaking of beer brewing: diacetyl is actually generated during the brewing process and, although considered an off-flavor[1], is important for the characteristic aroma of some beers, one famous example is Pilsner Urquell. [0] https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.chemrestox.8b00400 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.chemrestox.8b00400 (figure 5) [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/jib.205 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/jib.205

feet 4y ago
From a harm reduction philosophy point of view it's honestly just best to have no flavoring whatsoever. All flavorings used are from food products which have been approved for oral use and not inhalation. We have no idea what these compounds are doing to the lungs or other tissues when bypassing first pass metabolism. From my perspective it would be the least harmful to stick with just nicotine + PG/glycerol.