15 ms·

My newsletter is making $2k per month with 7k subscribers – AMA

361 points by ryangilbert 4y ago

Hi HN! Roughly two years ago when the pandemic had people shifting to a WFH environment, I started a twice-weekly newsletter called Workspaces that gives readers a behind the scenes tour of their favorite entrepreneurs, designers, developers, etc. new desk setups. Growth has remained consistent week to week, relying on the featured guests Twitter presence to help spread the word. I have featured 175 workspaces to date (70+ more in the backlog) and have grown the newsletter to 7,000 subscribers while maintaining a >50% open rate. I published the fist 117 editions of the newsletter without a sponsor. I had inbound requests but I was focused on growing the subscriber base as much as possible. With the new year, I shifted this focus slightly and began offering one sponsor slot per newsletter edition. Since then, the newsletter has been sold out weekly and the price has risen from the initial $150 to $250, earning $2,000 per month from sponsorships. I think it’s important to note that this was not an immediate cash cow… sending out 117 editions of a newsletter without receiving a dime can be draining. You have to truly enjoy the content you are putting out (I do!). However, I think this shows that consistency rules and as long as you continue to show up, put out great content and iterate based on feedback you will continue to see your newsletter grow and ultimately the money will come. Happy to answer any questions around newsletter growth, finding sponsors, etc!

michaelbuckbee 4y ago
Have you looked at any of the email newsletter sponsor marketplaces? I'm asking as your sponsor prices seem a bit low (I would guess you could probably get nearly double what you are).
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  I did awhile ago and found that many of them charged on the publisher side (and a hefty % at that) so I was instantly turned off. I have enjoyed working with sponsors who read the newsletter themselves too. It hasn't been too much work (only publishing twice per week). My main concern when raising prices is always if that will create a gap in sponsors. I'd rather have every slot booked at a lower price than have gaps at a higher price. This is less about the actual money hitting my bank account and more about how potential sponsors would view this. If they see gaps they may conclude that the price isn't worth it...
  - stevesearer 4y ago
    I can vouch for not being reliant on ad marketplaces and instead having personal contact with your advertisers. One way to increase your fees is to keep pricing the same for existing advertisers for a while and charge a higher rate to new advertisers. As you fill in spots with higher priced ads you can then transition older customers to the new rates.
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      I like this approach! Also - I've found that the personal contact with sponsors has made them likely to rebook or simply book additional slots up front.
coreyhn 4y ago
Is there a way to browse a pinterest style view of all setups and click on the images to see more details? This is my first interaction and I’d love to scan through a lot at once to get ideas and drill down where it makes sense.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Coming next week ;)
  - coreyhn 4y ago
    Nice!
dom9301k 4y ago
Hi, is it possible to see a sample of the mail?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Of course! Past examples can be seen https://www.workspaces.xyz/ https://www.workspaces.xyz/ and https://twitter.com/workspacesxyz https://twitter.com/workspacesxyz
solumunus 4y ago
> I think it’s important to note that this was not an immediate cash cow… Is it a cash cow? Sorry I really should have something better to contribute!
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  $2,000 with $0 in expenses... maybe "cash cow" isn't the correct term but it's definitely not too shabby for something that was set up in 5 minutes ;)
  - halotrope 4y ago
    Damn right!
  - sschueller 4y ago
    "$0 in expenses", he has to put work in it. I would define any labor to be an expense. It is definitely not "free" money.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      I'm putting these together Sat/Sun morning while I sip my coffee. It's as close to free as it can be.
  - tomschwiha 4y ago
    Investing 20 hours for $100 "self earned cash" on an own project feels somehow better than working 2 hours on a strangers project for $100.
  - ISL 4y ago
    The expense was the labor!
  - atleta 4y ago
    How much time do you put in into each edition (or during a month) on average?
ddon 4y ago
How one starts with a newsletter? how did you attract your first 200 subscribers?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Great question! Early on I made it a conscious effort to feature guests with larger followings than me. My hunch (which turned out to be correct) was that after the guests took the time to provide the content they would be very willing to share it with their networks. Once the newsletter went out, I'd share the content on Twitter and tag the guest. 99% of guests go on to retweet or share in their own way after this.
  - awillen 4y ago
    How did you get those guests? I'm curious what your pitch is - it seems like a significant amount of work for them to provide pictures, identify their stuff and answer questions. Do they do it just because people love to share, or is there something else to it?
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      This is the cold DM I tend to send: "Hi [name]! I publish a newsletter with x+ subscribers that highlights the workspaces of creative individuals and would love to include you. Let me know if you're at all interested! :)" I think the earliest guests simply liked the idea of the project and thought it would be fun to share the workspace that they spend hours of their day in. Now I think people agree because they are able to plug their projects in front of thousands of readers.
      - yata69420 4y ago
        Does that work when "x" is 0? under 10? under 100? What was the first "x" you used in that message early on? How did you get that many of initial subscribers? It seems to me that the only way to bootstrap something like this is with ad spend or viral social media content that inspires people to subscribe, but that's sort of a chicken and egg problem if you don't already have wide reach.
ativzzz 4y ago
How do you reach out to people to get them to be on your newsletter? I imagine now that you have a following it's easier, but what motivates people to actually say "yes", especially when you were starting out? And somewhat related because you don't do this, but for newsletters that are more "news aggregator" types that collect various blog posts/info, do they typically reach out to the authors before including the links in the newsletter asking for permission?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Early on it was all Twitter DMs. I would DM handfuls of designers, developers, founders, etc each day. Once I had a few published spaces this became easier as I could quickly link to an example of what I was looking for. Nowadays, it's mostly inbound requests to be featured. Every time I send a new edition out I get 1-2 requests from readers to be featured as well. This has led to the current backlog of 70+ spaces that I am currently working through. Re the news aggregator type newsletters... I'm honestly not 100% positive. However, Workspaces as a whole and also specific editions have ended up in some of these and I was only notified after the fact (not a big deal IMO).
  - cjrp 4y ago
    Supply and demand, time to start charging people to be featured ;)
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      Haha thought about doing that for offices/companies that are hiring! Haven't fully thought out how that would look but it's definitely interesting...
    - 6510 4y ago
      Prioritize advertisers who share their desk and fit their link and company description in the story.
  - jxramos 4y ago
    I've had multiple people comment on my workstation setup at the office, mostly because I have a variety of input devices on the table top that always catches peoples eyes: magic trackpad, Contour Roller Mouse Red, Goldtouch right hand semi-vertical mouse on a mouse bungee, and a Philips foot pedal. I have a left hand vertical mouse too but something with the driver or USB hub nullifies it while some another device is connected. Since work from home took over I've moved all that equipment to a budget Costco standing desk that seems to be a popular model on the warehouse floor https://www.costco.com/tresanti-47%22-adjustable-height-desk.product.100664030.html https://www.costco.com/tresanti-47%22-adjustable-height-desk.... I think I paid like $275 on sale sometime last year. I've modified that desk by fabricating a bracket on it to secure a Workrite Banana Board keyboard tray. I've also ceased using the mouse bungee at home since the bracket serves as a cable holder with a cable clip routing the wires. There's some other minor stuff like an old KVM switch and a DC barrel plug switch to restart the KVM switch when it misbehaves. Does that sound like something interesting to feature?
jdmoreira 4y ago
How do you monetize? Sponsors? Affiliate links?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  A mix of both. I sell one sponsor slot per edition. The current rate is $250 and I send 8 newsletters per month. This slot is sold out months in advance and the price should probably be bumped up. I have Amazon affiliate links where it makes sense on the blog posts themselves but this only generates a couple hundred on the best months. I should also invest more time into this going forward.
  - silicon2401 4y ago
    So to be clear, your email newsletter costs nothing to subscribers, but your income is through selling that sponsor slot? That's interesting. I wouldn't have imagined there's so much money to make in email newsletters from advertisements
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      Correct! It's 100% free to sign up as a reader of the newsletter and all the revenue comes from sponsors putting their message in front of these readers.
      - silicon2401 4y ago
        congrats on the success, it sounds pretty awesome, and thanks for sharing your story
thenerdhead 4y ago
What do your readers hope to get out of the newsletter? Are they looking for inspiration in their own WFH setups or looking to mimic what successful people do? It seems like a "Tools of Titans but for WFH setups" Do you have any plans for your future growth, or just seeing where it takes you at this point?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  I think it's a mix of things. I definitely think some readers are hoping to get some sort of inspiration for their own setups as they either upgrade or begin to WFH more consistently. I think another group of readers simply like the voyeuristic nature of peaking into their peers workspaces to see how they might compare. Re future growth... adding a nice visual site to complement the newsletter soon. Very soon!
booboofixer 4y ago
I’ve been subscribed for a couple months and it’s been great. A lot more signal-to-noise than most subreddits on the topic. Don’t lose/change the format for most of your newsletters, it’s great as is.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  I appreciate that!
andrewmcwatters 4y ago
In building products, no matter what your size, I have noticed that you must consistently market. There's no letting up. Often times people talk about products that create promoters and are good enough that you have users that eventually promote the good for you, but in my experience this is exceptionally rare. Growth also comes in bursts based on advertising events. That may be, for example, by social media presence with responding to topics on threads that are relevant to your product. I am curious about your general experiences, and if they align with mine.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Totally agree! Consistency is the most important lesson in all of this. I didn't make a single dollar until the 118th edition. 117 editions of doing it simply because I (and the readers) enjoyed this little hobby. It also took over 400 days for the newsletter to get its first 1,000 subscribers. It would have been very easy to give up on the project in the early days when I wasn't seeing a ton of growth. Consistency >
novantadue 4y ago
neat. I'd like to see this for non-computer setups as well: artist studio, musician studio, workworkers garage, writers setup. Please drop a link if you know of one.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Same! I have featured a couple musicians and they were well received! I hope to branch out more with this and other sorts of creators soon. https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/161-diana-chow https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/161-diana-chow https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/139-travis-andrews https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/139-travis-andrews
ryangilbert 4y ago
Link for those curious: https://www.workspaces.xyz/ https://www.workspaces.xyz/
- O__________O 4y ago
  Direct link to archive of past newsletters: https://www.workspaces.xyz/archive https://www.workspaces.xyz/archive
- trentnix 4y ago
  Thank you! I was looking for a link so I could subscribe but the OP neglected to provide one.
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    I am OP... :)
    - FVYPblNGl7R9ZAc 4y ago
      You are the original poster but this isn't the original post.
      - ryangilbert 4y ago
        I posted the original top post about the newsletter making 2k (because it's my newsletter) as well as this comment with the link. lol wtf
        cercatrova 4y ago
        They are saying you should have just posted the link in the top/original post itself rather than as a comment. That's usually how it goes on HN so that people don't have to search for your specific comment with the link, they can just go to the post and see it there.
        4y ago
lawgimenez 4y ago
I am a subscriber since your early days and I enjoy every bit of your post.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Thank you! Do you have a personal favorite?
  - lawgimenez 4y ago
    I remember I liked Gavin Nelson’s workspace. It was so minimal for a designer his caliber. I enjoyed Alex Cornell’s too. If I may suggest, it would be cool to include screenshots of their workspace on both desktop and phone. But may be that is too much to ask from them. Anyway thank you for creating a refreshing newsletter!
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      Both great spaces! That's a good suggestion... I'll see if I can include that a bit going forward.
stevesearer 4y ago
Fellow workspace design publisher here (https://officesnapshots.com https://officesnapshots.com) – Nice work! I started a home office site ~13 years ago and wasn't able to ever make it happen so I am glad to hear that someone has cracked the code.
- heffer 4y ago
  If it's any consolation I used your site at the beginning of the pandemic to get a photo from our office to use as a virtual background. You know, back when virtual backgrounds were new and it was still funny to fool people into thinking you're in the office (which was closed).
antidaily 4y ago
Anyone remember usesthis.com?
- funvill 4y ago
  This reminded me of usesthis.com too
5350-uiop-1130 4y ago
people are paying $250 per month for a newsletter about wfh desk setups? not to be jest but i did understand correctly...?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Sponsors are paying $250 to get their message in front of 7,000+ subscribers who are interested in wfh desk content. The individual readers subscribe for free.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- xrd 4y ago
  Advertisers are paying to sponsor the newsletter, to reach the readers. The readers are not paying anything (it appears). The author went with a sponsorship model.
- darushimo 4y ago
  Perhaps that's the price for placing an ad, and the news letter goes out w/ 2 ads, weekly?
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    Exactly! Sorry if that wasn't clear in the original post.
    - 5350-uiop-1130 4y ago
      thanks for clarifying
keiferski 4y ago
Kudos! Although it's an entirely different type of content/business, this reminds me of Humans of New York. [1] There seems to be a broad desire for simple, consistent content about the lives of everyday people. I think it may be a reaction to the increasing unreality of most larger media outlets, which have become very contrived and overly-optimized. If I were looking to start a newsletter, I would pick a similar everyday topic. 1. https://www.humansofnewyork.com https://www.humansofnewyork.com
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Agreed! I think the consistent and predictable content is also what leads to the high engagement around it. You don't have to worry about opening the newsletter not knowing if you will need to set aside 30 minutes to read an essay. Each newsletter is very visual and can be read in just a couple of minutes.
  - ryanjamurphy 4y ago
    Yeah, I think you've hit the bullseye on a sweet-spot for newsletter content. You can glean a lot, quickly, from a photo of someone's workspace. Congrats on the success!
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      Thanks! I appreciate it!
- pradn 4y ago
  There has also been plenty of criticism of HONY: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/humans-of-new-york-and-the-cavalier-consumption-of-others https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/humans-of-new-yo...
  - tomcam 4y ago
    That is a fat lot of navel gazing that says almost nothing about anything. It demonstrates the worst tendencies of that rag, which I loved for 30 years or so.
gavinray 4y ago
Wtf, people make money from Newsletters?! This is news to me.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  anything that builds an audience large enough or targeted enough is a good vector for ads/sponsorship.
- chasebank 4y ago
  Morning brew has 4m subs and takes in ~$50m/yr revenue. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/03/28/morning-brew-tops-4-million-subscribers-as-it-looks-to-expand-with-ma.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/03/28/morning-brew-tops-4-mill...
- dewey 4y ago
  https://substack.com/going-paid https://substack.com/going-paid
- petercooper 4y ago
  I do seven figures on developer newsletters (just!)
omarhaneef 4y ago
This was much more interesting than I expected. I have always been interested in how other people work, prioritize, think, their workflow and tools, and this really spoke to that interest. Here were some surprises: -- I was much more interested in their software than hardware. -- I was most interested in their physical set up. This told me more about workflow than I imagined. -- Everyone has a camera and mic these days -- table stakes -- but people had much fancier camera/mic setups than I do. -- I also have a pad and pen. I was interested to see some people had set up a mini-teleprompter by putting their pad next to their screen.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Good to know about the software vs hardware angle... I wonder how many readers feel the same? I'll look to add a poll in the newsletter soon to find out! :)
jhickok 4y ago
Oh nice, a Milwaukee guy! Cool newsletter, for one reason or another I have always been interested in desk setups.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Milwaukee! Yeah... when people started tweeting pictures of their spaces I was instantly drawn to them for my own inspiration. I figured others might be too!
KingOfCoders 4y ago
Some years ago in a startup we had a 10k subscriber newsletter for event locations and made much much more per month than $2000. You might be too cheap. [Edit] Especially with that backlog.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Been thinking it might be time to up prices! The slots have been sold out months in advance so it's hard to factor in growth when booking. I do pause new sponsors from time to time when I book out too far to give myself a chance to reevaluate.
  - lprubin 4y ago
    Did these sponsors just start contacting you inbound or did you do cold outreach?
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      All have been inbound with the exception of one sponsor who I thought would be a perfect fit for the audience. They agreed and bought two slots.
  - 6510 4y ago
    A better question to ask imho would be what improvements you can make on a larger budget.
ilamont 4y ago
I have a targeted newsletter as well with about 8000 unique opens per week (out of a total active list of 30k) which I am using to boost sales on a Shopify store, and I also re-purpose the content as blog posts. I have also been thinking about sponsorships but do not know where to start. What are the requirements of the sponsors in terms of graphics, text, placement, links, tracking, and analytics? Do they demand email addresses of your readers?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  I start all of the sponsor slot with "A Message From sponsor name". After that they provide me with ~250 or so characters of text (not too strict on this) as well as text + link for a CTA button. Outside of that, there are no demands from their end. Some ask for the Click Rate after the fact and some don't. If they ask I give it to them. The main back and forth with sponsors is that when they book multiple slots they often want to test multiple versions of copy and/or CTA button.
boplicity 4y ago
What's your process for securing sponsors for the newsletter? How is the sponsor slot integrated into the email?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Every month or so I add a short blurb at the beginning of a newsletter asking for sponsors and laying out my current metrics. This always leads to multiple readers replying with interest. The typical sponsor has gone on to book 4 slots at a time (I do not offer a bulk discount - this is just what they tend to do). The slot is integrated right after the intro blurb and before the guest's content. I offer them a headline, some text (not too strict on character count as long as it isn't crazy) and a CTA button.
  - O__________O 4y ago
    Here’s an past example of a sponsor pitch from April: I have two sponsor slots open next weekend. Reply to this email if you’re interested in learning more about sponsoring Workspaces! Some quick numbers: 5,700 subscribers 55% open rate ______________ Source and AD example in link below: https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/149-allan-grinshtein https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/149-allan-grinshtein
  - rococode 4y ago
    Wow, is that the full extent of your sales efforts? Your readers happen to include enough interested sponsors that you've been able to sell out your slots just by asking your audience? That's awesome!
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      Yep! I have a very engaged audience - many who have their own side projects or work for companies that fit the perfect sponsor demographic. I think I have gotten very lucky in this regard and it might change if prices go up.
ryanjamurphy 4y ago
I am suspicious of this project: the real goal is clearly to get people to clean their desks. And it is effective!
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Haha some people have actually said no because previous guests had too clean of desks! I promise that I welcome all workspaces - clean and dirty!
didgetmaster 4y ago
It looks like you are up to 175 posts of various workspaces. I didn't look at each one, but all the ones I saw were nicely staged, organized workspaces. Did you get any submissions for 'real workspaces' with stacks of books, papers all over the place, and sticky-notes all around the monitors? If you did, did you reject them? I too, have a newsletter that I started last year about data management. I only have about a hundred subscribers so far, but I am trying to grow it with interesting articles about how computers organize, process, and analyze all kinds of data. https://didgets.substack.com/ https://didgets.substack.com/ If I get a few thousand subscribers like you, I might look for sponsors too.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  I don't reject them for being "messy"! I didn't anticipate so many people cleaning their desks off before their feature but that is what many have opted to do. Here's some "real" ones: https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/106-michele-hansen https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/106-michele-hansen https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/070-alex-wilhelm https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/070-alex-wilhelm
  - rabidonrails 4y ago
    Doesn't surprise me that Alex didn't go nuts to make his space look "perfect." I met him a couple years ago back and he was a really nice, smart, and incredibly authentic kinda guy. It even comes through in his interview: "Some sort of ergo-friendly chair that I bought online" "Apple Watch in case I work out"
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      Haha yeah I'm glad he kept his space as is!
- pandemicsoul 4y ago
  I won't presume to speak for the owner of this newsletter, but I do receive it, and I'd just say: "I don't want to see messy spaces." The whole point of seeing other people's workspaces is for inspiration – what are ways I could organize my desk, what are some neat things I might want to add, what tech is out there I could purchase to make me like my workspace better. My workspace sometimes look messy, but I always clean up before people come over, so it's kinda the same thing here? I'm sure lots of these folks let their workspaces look lived-in normally, but that's not what we're here for.
criddell 4y ago
Have any of the workspaces you've posted led to you making changes in your workspace? Have you ever posted your workspace?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Yes, actually! I have bought a few things after seeing them showcased in some workspaces. I have also bought some artwork that a few of the featured guests created - partly to support/thank them and partly because I loved the art.
no_time 4y ago
Just curious, would you feature an absolute trainwreck of a setup like [0] if the owner submitted it or do you intend on keeping it strictly upper middle class? [0]: https://bnn-news.com/wp-content/gallery/offices/computer-room-5.jpg https://bnn-news.com/wp-content/gallery/offices/computer-roo...
- didgetmaster 4y ago
  I think the point of the newsletter is to showcase workspaces at home that really work for those doing creative things. It doesn't have to be an expensive setup or a super clean environment, but it should be functional for the task at hand. Just throwing an old computer on top of a garbage heap doesn't do anything for me!
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    Exactly. I have and will feature all spaces but I think the nature of the audience and who I reach out to for their setup tends to direct the content in a certain direction.
  - 6510 4y ago
    Maybe if you are working on game graphics for some post apocalyptic dystopia.
  - amelius 4y ago
    You could wear VR goggles and turn that garbage heap into a beautiful beach. Someone should start selling VR workspaces.
    - jspiral 4y ago
      i am very interested in the next generation of things like horizon workrooms on oculus. I find the current gen unpleasant to use for long periods of time but I'm sure it can be improved
    - gpm 4y ago
      First you need VR goggles that you can reasonably work in... These guys are making a go at that: https://simulavr.com/ https://simulavr.com/ And facebook is probably going to in the future given the R&D they've been showing off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6AOwDttBsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6AOwDttBsc But having used the current generations of headsets (Valve Index, Quest 2), they just aren't quite there yet.
didgetmaster 4y ago
Have you had anyone submit a 'before and after' workspace where they showed a slightly disorganized setup along with how it looked after they spent some time getting it into better shape? They could then discuss how their productivity was affected by their changes.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Haven't yet but I like that idea and it could be something fun to explore soon!
egypturnash 4y ago
These are all so clean. And so indoors. Are you interested in a glimpse into the very messy desk of an artist who also spends a lot of time sitting out in the park with her laptop?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Of course! I have a few outdoor/iPad type setups in the backlog similar to this: https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/140-jaisal-rathee https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/140-jaisal-rathee
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  Amen
wooque 4y ago
Can't go through all of them, but I'm curious is there anyone who uses Linux on their machine?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
xwdv 4y ago
For how many months has it been making 2k now?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Started sponsorships in January of this year (2022) and it has been sold out ever since. Pricing started at $150 for the first month and has been $250 ever since.
  - xwdv 4y ago
    What’s revenue growth looked like from month to month
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      Stable at $2,000. Have been sold out for months and haven't increased prices because of that. Temporarily put a pause on new sponsors while I get through the current slots and look at subscriber growth, open rates, click rates, etc.
aml183 4y ago
I run Payload (http://payloadspace.com/ http://payloadspace.com/). We are a media company covering the space industry. Congrats on all your success so far. For those reading this, there is a lot of riches in the niches. Just choose a topic that you don't think gets a lot of coverage and start writing about it. Two areas that come to mind: - Geospatial - Nuclear Energy Media/content -- to Ryan's point is being consistent. As long as you do that once you have PMF, you'll grow and make money.
- tomcam 4y ago
  It’s always good to have that PMF. So many of us are struggling for it… uh, what is PMF?
  - tomcam 4y ago
    A web search failed but I just tried Hacker News search. It means Product Market Fit, I think
SantiagoElf 4y ago
Why are almost all setups Mac based ? ;/
- binkHN 4y ago
  I emailed Ryan thinking it would be fun to post my setup; I have a ThinkPad ;) .
tarte-au-poire 4y ago
I know nothing about finding advertising money… but your subject matter is good one no? ( your audience is open to workspace improvements)
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  The subject/audience are perfect for a wide range of sponsors.
zerop 4y ago
I am planning to get a custom made study table and workspace for my son.. Any suggestions?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  I have seen a few people use butcher block top on a custom frame and it's something I've wanted to do lately. Maybe something like that would be fun? https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/160-jason-long https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/160-jason-long
durandaul 4y ago
What did you use for tools/subscription management? All custom or did you use a pre made service like hubspot?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Twitter DMs and GMail for all things related to the outreach and management of the content. Substack for the actual publishing. As barebones as you can get! (This will be changing a tiny bit next week)
  - durandaul 4y ago
    What do you think of https://www.getrevue.co/ https://www.getrevue.co/ ?
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      I’ve never used it as a publisher but don’t like the design much as a reader of a couple newsletters hosted on it.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
clove 4y ago
I have a newsletter making $2k from 20 subscribers.
nscalf 4y ago
Congrats! Awesome to see some others from the newsletter world here. I'm a bit earlier than you are along the process, I have a crypto based newsletter which has about 1200 subscribers, ~50 editions sent, and just started conversations with interested sponsors (we also had inbounds which we have not really engaged with). Our SEO is doing pretty well, we get roughly 3500 people coming to the site per month, and when something in crypto world blows up we double that. I have 2 tactical questions for you: 1. That seems like a relatively high CPM for your niche, how did you structure your sponsorships to get there? To be more specific, what are the normal sponsorship lengths, do you do a short term and then renegotiate after they've seen click throughs, does click through come into play in your negotiations, etc. 2. Your open rate is amazing. We used to maintain an open rate in the 40%'s, but we saw a dropoff and have been struggling to get from mid 20s back to mid 40s for a while now. I know this is because we end up in promotions, but can't quite arcane how to get out of those folders. Did you do anything in particular to maintain your open rate?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Thanks for the questions! 1. The $250 is a flat rate for one newsletter edition but also ends up on the blog portion which is then shared on Twitter. Some of these tweets do 50,000+ impressions on Twitter. This isn’t guaranteed but is something the sponsors are considering when placing an ad. We typically don’t even get into CTR before or after the slot but can if a specific sponsor or potential sponsor wants to. The main metrics they’ve asked about is newsletter size and open rate. This might have to change if I look to increase prices. 2. My “welcome to the list” email reminds people to add the newsletter to their primary inbox. Once a month or so I also add a short note to kick off a newsletter reminding people to ensure we are in their primary box. I don’t know if this has helped with anything at all but it’s worth doing IMO.
  - nscalf 4y ago
    Awesome, thanks for the answers! I'd also love to hear an update on what trending on HN does for subscriptions, we've had some articles trend on here before and it's a pretty nice bump, but people were clicking primarily for a story not a newsletter. This got me to sub at least!
99cent 4y ago
I'm curious about this too. And as a non-developer myself I don't see this asked/answered: What platform do yo use for your website and for the newsletter? Do you self-host or have a hosting service you recommend for doing this? I have always wanted to do a similar thing, targeting a niche segment, but don't know how to start on the technical side of things. Thanks!
- afkqs 4y ago
  It seems to be made with Substack [1] [1] https://substack.com/ https://substack.com/
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  I am hosting this on Substack (https://substack.com/ https://substack.com/) which was free to get started in minutes. I was able to buy and add my own domain later as well. If I were starting from scratch today I would choose Beehiiv (https://www.beehiiv.com/ https://www.beehiiv.com/ ) over Substack. They just seem to care more and are more or less the same but adding features much quicker. I am moving to a custom setup soon but the above options are very useful in getting something off the ground.
  - lrae 4y ago
    beehiiv is for sure interesting, but also pretty expensive (for people starting out) with $50/month if you want to use your own domain. Just that people don't overlook that.
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      True! I did start and grow this without my own domain for awhile (not sure I would recommend doing this if you have hopes of turning it into more than a hobby - too risky trying to grab a name later).
lacoolj 4y ago
No questions but will be a new sub for you :)
lacoolj 4y ago
Oh I actually do have a question. Is your setup featured too? If not, let's see it!
- stevenjgarner 4y ago
  EMPHASIS
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Hasn’t been featured yet but it is coming soon!
stevenjgarner 4y ago
New subscriber. Thanks for sharing. Would you be willing to expand on and clarify your revenue model? So inspiring and aspirational I'm sure to many of us on HN. Who was your first paid sponsor?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Glad you liked it! The revenue model is simply charging sponsors (1 per newsletter edition) a flat rate to get their message in front of my growing and engaged subscriber-base. First paid sponsor (and most that have followed) was a reader of the newsletter who wanted to promote their product to the audience.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
kuboble 4y ago
Do you have much more traffic on the most recent additions as compared to the most popular historical ones? Are you selling place for "message from X" on a post for a limited time or the ad stays forever? Sounds like a bargain for buyers to pay once and benefit from all future visitors.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  The most popular historical editions still rank towards the top in terms of traffic and sign ups from them. The more recent “average” spaces have more traffic than similar ones from months ago. The ad appears in the newsletter and also the blog but is sold for the newsletter (the blog and tweet traffic after are a nice bonus and can’t be guaranteed - every tweet performs differently).
anyfactor 4y ago
This is what I was looking for! I love seeing other people's normal work setup. I will tell you my story. I was doing part time freelance dev work when I was uni (/college). I was very proud of my setup. My siblings essnetially gifted me the entire setup a decent laptop, dual monitors, mechanical keyboard, MMO mouse with 12 programmable buttons. I didn't use the setup for entertainment just for freelance projects and sideprojects. Then I got a "real" job working for a bank. I had to move out to a shared aparartment. Oddly, I would often just imagine myself in desk. For some reason, imagining myself there acted like my meditation/zen place. Helped me sleep. One of the main reason, why I left that job and now work execlusively from my home is my setup. It is pretty damn average but being there comforts me.
mmorris 4y ago
If you're still selling out at $250, have you considered raising prices again? Thanks for sharing this, it’s great to see people making money off of something they love.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  I’ve definitely considered it but I have an (irrational) fear of having gaps in sponsor slots once I raise them. I feel that if I end up having gaps other potential sponsors may get scared off thinking that the price isn’t worth it because “clearly others are passing on it too”.
gexaha 4y ago
would be interesting to see the setup of the artist Jon Rafman, he has an old photo with his messy setup (but maybe the photo is staged): https://www.monopol-magazin.de/sites/default/files/styles/min_autox1000/public/img_d7/press_pic_rafman_0.jpg?itok=rHYYsytX https://www.monopol-magazin.de/sites/default/files/styles/mi...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
yoyopa 4y ago
how do you know if subscribers are real, and 3000 of them are not actually cats?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  I guess it’s a good thing that I like cats.
rhipitr 4y ago
How did you get initial traction for your newsletter?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Twitter!
thelittleone 4y ago
How do you handle submissions? Just by email or perhaps with a webform?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  All handled through email to this point! It has worked well and allows for some personal back and forth.
  - thelittleone 4y ago
    Thanks! Looking at archives I see most have list of equipment and then some questions and answers. Do you prefer submissions process to be free format or more structured with standard questions?
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      A mix of both! The Q/A section is totally optional for guests. I might look into diving deeper on some of the interviews going forward. I'd prefer if all guests listed their hardware/software though along with the picture(s).
archagon 4y ago
Congratulations! This is just my cup of tea, and I subscribed to your site's RSS feed. With that said, the question that springs to my mind is: what do you as a newsletter curator bring to something like this over a community-based site like /r/workspaces?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  A more personal touch with a consistent and predictable publishing schedule? Really not sure... they're pretty similar!
jotjotzzz 4y ago
As someone who is starting something like this, how did you get your guests? Did you cold email some of them? And did you give them anything for participating? Thanks!
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Cold outreach to start. Now the majority of guests reply to the emails or DM me on Twitter asking if they can also be included. I've never offered anyone anything for participating other than allowing them the opportunity to plug anything they'd like in their intro!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sebastix 4y ago
Have you always sended 2-3 editions a week since the start? How can creatives signup for showing off their workspace? I have a small workspace in an old monastery ;-)
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  I started with 1 edition per week. I upped it to 2x due to an increasing backlog (may need to up to 3x but TBD on that). For now you can shoot me a DM here https://twitter.com/rjgilbert https://twitter.com/rjgilbert or email me at ryangilbert dot co and we can kick things off! In a ~week or so I will have a better way to welcome submissions :)
  - sebastix 4y ago
    Thanks for your quick reply! I'll send you a message!
fraXis 4y ago
Can you please take about the tech stack behind the newsletter (software you use to write the actual newsletter, the service you use to send it and what you like and don't like about it, and your website tech stack)? :-)
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Of course! I handle all outreach/content organization through Twitter DMs and GMail. I do all writing + publishing through Substack. Starting next week I will have a much more visual site that's using Webflow. Super excited for the refreshing change!
cherylo 4y ago
What if you have a physical product (I sell collectible dolls)mostly on eBay where they won’t let you exchange email addresses? I have the physical addresses that I shipped to but don’t know how to get them signed up. I have a page on the website to sign up but they don’t go there. Any ideas on how to build a list to send a newsletter to? Thanks!!

361 points by ryangilbert 4y ago

michaelbuckbee 4y ago

Have you looked at any of the email newsletter sponsor marketplaces? I'm asking as your sponsor prices seem a bit low (I would guess you could probably get nearly double what you are).

ryangilbert 4y ago
I did awhile ago and found that many of them charged on the publisher side (and a hefty % at that) so I was instantly turned off. I have enjoyed working with sponsors who read the newsletter themselves too. It hasn't been too much work (only publishing twice per week). My main concern when raising prices is always if that will create a gap in sponsors. I'd rather have every slot booked at a lower price than have gaps at a higher price. This is less about the actual money hitting my bank account and more about how potential sponsors would view this. If they see gaps they may conclude that the price isn't worth it...
- stevesearer 4y ago
  I can vouch for not being reliant on ad marketplaces and instead having personal contact with your advertisers. One way to increase your fees is to keep pricing the same for existing advertisers for a while and charge a higher rate to new advertisers. As you fill in spots with higher priced ads you can then transition older customers to the new rates.
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    I like this approach! Also - I've found that the personal contact with sponsors has made them likely to rebook or simply book additional slots up front.

coreyhn 4y ago

Is there a way to browse a pinterest style view of all setups and click on the images to see more details? This is my first interaction and I’d love to scan through a lot at once to get ideas and drill down where it makes sense.

ryangilbert 4y ago
Coming next week ;)
- coreyhn 4y ago
  Nice!

dom9301k 4y ago

Hi, is it possible to see a sample of the mail?

ryangilbert 4y ago
Of course! Past examples can be seen https://www.workspaces.xyz/ https://www.workspaces.xyz/ and https://twitter.com/workspacesxyz https://twitter.com/workspacesxyz

solumunus 4y ago

> I think it’s important to note that this was not an immediate cash cow… Is it a cash cow? Sorry I really should have something better to contribute!

ryangilbert 4y ago
$2,000 with $0 in expenses... maybe "cash cow" isn't the correct term but it's definitely not too shabby for something that was set up in 5 minutes ;)
- halotrope 4y ago
  Damn right!
- sschueller 4y ago
  "$0 in expenses", he has to put work in it. I would define any labor to be an expense. It is definitely not "free" money.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    I'm putting these together Sat/Sun morning while I sip my coffee. It's as close to free as it can be.
- tomschwiha 4y ago
  Investing 20 hours for $100 "self earned cash" on an own project feels somehow better than working 2 hours on a strangers project for $100.
- ISL 4y ago
  The expense was the labor!
- atleta 4y ago
  How much time do you put in into each edition (or during a month) on average?

ddon 4y ago

How one starts with a newsletter? how did you attract your first 200 subscribers?

ryangilbert 4y ago
Great question! Early on I made it a conscious effort to feature guests with larger followings than me. My hunch (which turned out to be correct) was that after the guests took the time to provide the content they would be very willing to share it with their networks. Once the newsletter went out, I'd share the content on Twitter and tag the guest. 99% of guests go on to retweet or share in their own way after this.
- awillen 4y ago
  How did you get those guests? I'm curious what your pitch is - it seems like a significant amount of work for them to provide pictures, identify their stuff and answer questions. Do they do it just because people love to share, or is there something else to it?
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    This is the cold DM I tend to send: "Hi [name]! I publish a newsletter with x+ subscribers that highlights the workspaces of creative individuals and would love to include you. Let me know if you're at all interested! :)" I think the earliest guests simply liked the idea of the project and thought it would be fun to share the workspace that they spend hours of their day in. Now I think people agree because they are able to plug their projects in front of thousands of readers.
    - yata69420 4y ago
      Does that work when "x" is 0? under 10? under 100? What was the first "x" you used in that message early on? How did you get that many of initial subscribers? It seems to me that the only way to bootstrap something like this is with ad spend or viral social media content that inspires people to subscribe, but that's sort of a chicken and egg problem if you don't already have wide reach.

ativzzz 4y ago

How do you reach out to people to get them to be on your newsletter? I imagine now that you have a following it's easier, but what motivates people to actually say "yes", especially when you were starting out? And somewhat related because you don't do this, but for newsletters that are more "news aggregator" types that collect various blog posts/info, do they typically reach out to the authors before including the links in the newsletter asking for permission?

ryangilbert 4y ago
Early on it was all Twitter DMs. I would DM handfuls of designers, developers, founders, etc each day. Once I had a few published spaces this became easier as I could quickly link to an example of what I was looking for. Nowadays, it's mostly inbound requests to be featured. Every time I send a new edition out I get 1-2 requests from readers to be featured as well. This has led to the current backlog of 70+ spaces that I am currently working through. Re the news aggregator type newsletters... I'm honestly not 100% positive. However, Workspaces as a whole and also specific editions have ended up in some of these and I was only notified after the fact (not a big deal IMO).
- cjrp 4y ago
  Supply and demand, time to start charging people to be featured ;)
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    Haha thought about doing that for offices/companies that are hiring! Haven't fully thought out how that would look but it's definitely interesting...
  - 6510 4y ago
    Prioritize advertisers who share their desk and fit their link and company description in the story.
- jxramos 4y ago
  I've had multiple people comment on my workstation setup at the office, mostly because I have a variety of input devices on the table top that always catches peoples eyes: magic trackpad, Contour Roller Mouse Red, Goldtouch right hand semi-vertical mouse on a mouse bungee, and a Philips foot pedal. I have a left hand vertical mouse too but something with the driver or USB hub nullifies it while some another device is connected. Since work from home took over I've moved all that equipment to a budget Costco standing desk that seems to be a popular model on the warehouse floor https://www.costco.com/tresanti-47%22-adjustable-height-desk.product.100664030.html https://www.costco.com/tresanti-47%22-adjustable-height-desk.... I think I paid like $275 on sale sometime last year. I've modified that desk by fabricating a bracket on it to secure a Workrite Banana Board keyboard tray. I've also ceased using the mouse bungee at home since the bracket serves as a cable holder with a cable clip routing the wires. There's some other minor stuff like an old KVM switch and a DC barrel plug switch to restart the KVM switch when it misbehaves. Does that sound like something interesting to feature?

jdmoreira 4y ago

How do you monetize? Sponsors? Affiliate links?

ryangilbert 4y ago
A mix of both. I sell one sponsor slot per edition. The current rate is $250 and I send 8 newsletters per month. This slot is sold out months in advance and the price should probably be bumped up. I have Amazon affiliate links where it makes sense on the blog posts themselves but this only generates a couple hundred on the best months. I should also invest more time into this going forward.
- silicon2401 4y ago
  So to be clear, your email newsletter costs nothing to subscribers, but your income is through selling that sponsor slot? That's interesting. I wouldn't have imagined there's so much money to make in email newsletters from advertisements
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    Correct! It's 100% free to sign up as a reader of the newsletter and all the revenue comes from sponsors putting their message in front of these readers.
    - silicon2401 4y ago
      congrats on the success, it sounds pretty awesome, and thanks for sharing your story

thenerdhead 4y ago

What do your readers hope to get out of the newsletter? Are they looking for inspiration in their own WFH setups or looking to mimic what successful people do? It seems like a "Tools of Titans but for WFH setups" Do you have any plans for your future growth, or just seeing where it takes you at this point?

ryangilbert 4y ago
I think it's a mix of things. I definitely think some readers are hoping to get some sort of inspiration for their own setups as they either upgrade or begin to WFH more consistently. I think another group of readers simply like the voyeuristic nature of peaking into their peers workspaces to see how they might compare. Re future growth... adding a nice visual site to complement the newsletter soon. Very soon!

booboofixer 4y ago

I’ve been subscribed for a couple months and it’s been great. A lot more signal-to-noise than most subreddits on the topic. Don’t lose/change the format for most of your newsletters, it’s great as is.

ryangilbert 4y ago
I appreciate that!

andrewmcwatters 4y ago

In building products, no matter what your size, I have noticed that you must consistently market. There's no letting up. Often times people talk about products that create promoters and are good enough that you have users that eventually promote the good for you, but in my experience this is exceptionally rare. Growth also comes in bursts based on advertising events. That may be, for example, by social media presence with responding to topics on threads that are relevant to your product. I am curious about your general experiences, and if they align with mine.

ryangilbert 4y ago
Totally agree! Consistency is the most important lesson in all of this. I didn't make a single dollar until the 118th edition. 117 editions of doing it simply because I (and the readers) enjoyed this little hobby. It also took over 400 days for the newsletter to get its first 1,000 subscribers. It would have been very easy to give up on the project in the early days when I wasn't seeing a ton of growth. Consistency >

novantadue 4y ago

neat. I'd like to see this for non-computer setups as well: artist studio, musician studio, workworkers garage, writers setup. Please drop a link if you know of one.

ryangilbert 4y ago
Same! I have featured a couple musicians and they were well received! I hope to branch out more with this and other sorts of creators soon. https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/161-diana-chow https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/161-diana-chow https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/139-travis-andrews https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/139-travis-andrews

ryangilbert 4y ago

Link for those curious: https://www.workspaces.xyz/ https://www.workspaces.xyz/

O__________O 4y ago
Direct link to archive of past newsletters: https://www.workspaces.xyz/archive https://www.workspaces.xyz/archive
trentnix 4y ago
Thank you! I was looking for a link so I could subscribe but the OP neglected to provide one.
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  I am OP... :)
  - FVYPblNGl7R9ZAc 4y ago
    You are the original poster but this isn't the original post.
    - ryangilbert 4y ago
      I posted the original top post about the newsletter making 2k (because it's my newsletter) as well as this comment with the link. lol wtf
      - cercatrova 4y ago
        They are saying you should have just posted the link in the top/original post itself rather than as a comment. That's usually how it goes on HN so that people don't have to search for your specific comment with the link, they can just go to the post and see it there.
        4y ago

lawgimenez 4y ago

I am a subscriber since your early days and I enjoy every bit of your post.

ryangilbert 4y ago
Thank you! Do you have a personal favorite?
- lawgimenez 4y ago
  I remember I liked Gavin Nelson’s workspace. It was so minimal for a designer his caliber. I enjoyed Alex Cornell’s too. If I may suggest, it would be cool to include screenshots of their workspace on both desktop and phone. But may be that is too much to ask from them. Anyway thank you for creating a refreshing newsletter!
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    Both great spaces! That's a good suggestion... I'll see if I can include that a bit going forward.

stevesearer 4y ago

Fellow workspace design publisher here (https://officesnapshots.com https://officesnapshots.com) – Nice work! I started a home office site ~13 years ago and wasn't able to ever make it happen so I am glad to hear that someone has cracked the code.

heffer 4y ago
If it's any consolation I used your site at the beginning of the pandemic to get a photo from our office to use as a virtual background. You know, back when virtual backgrounds were new and it was still funny to fool people into thinking you're in the office (which was closed).

antidaily 4y ago

Anyone remember usesthis.com?

funvill 4y ago
This reminded me of usesthis.com too

5350-uiop-1130 4y ago

people are paying $250 per month for a newsletter about wfh desk setups? not to be jest but i did understand correctly...?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ryangilbert 4y ago
Sponsors are paying $250 to get their message in front of 7,000+ subscribers who are interested in wfh desk content. The individual readers subscribe for free.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
xrd 4y ago
Advertisers are paying to sponsor the newsletter, to reach the readers. The readers are not paying anything (it appears). The author went with a sponsorship model.
darushimo 4y ago
Perhaps that's the price for placing an ad, and the news letter goes out w/ 2 ads, weekly?
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Exactly! Sorry if that wasn't clear in the original post.
  - 5350-uiop-1130 4y ago
    thanks for clarifying

keiferski 4y ago

Kudos! Although it's an entirely different type of content/business, this reminds me of Humans of New York. [1] There seems to be a broad desire for simple, consistent content about the lives of everyday people. I think it may be a reaction to the increasing unreality of most larger media outlets, which have become very contrived and overly-optimized. If I were looking to start a newsletter, I would pick a similar everyday topic. 1. https://www.humansofnewyork.com https://www.humansofnewyork.com

ryangilbert 4y ago
Agreed! I think the consistent and predictable content is also what leads to the high engagement around it. You don't have to worry about opening the newsletter not knowing if you will need to set aside 30 minutes to read an essay. Each newsletter is very visual and can be read in just a couple of minutes.
- ryanjamurphy 4y ago
  Yeah, I think you've hit the bullseye on a sweet-spot for newsletter content. You can glean a lot, quickly, from a photo of someone's workspace. Congrats on the success!
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    Thanks! I appreciate it!
pradn 4y ago
There has also been plenty of criticism of HONY: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/humans-of-new-york-and-the-cavalier-consumption-of-others https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/humans-of-new-yo...
- tomcam 4y ago
  That is a fat lot of navel gazing that says almost nothing about anything. It demonstrates the worst tendencies of that rag, which I loved for 30 years or so.

gavinray 4y ago

Wtf, people make money from Newsletters?! This is news to me.

LegitShady 4y ago
anything that builds an audience large enough or targeted enough is a good vector for ads/sponsorship.
chasebank 4y ago
Morning brew has 4m subs and takes in ~$50m/yr revenue. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/03/28/morning-brew-tops-4-million-subscribers-as-it-looks-to-expand-with-ma.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/03/28/morning-brew-tops-4-mill...
dewey 4y ago
https://substack.com/going-paid https://substack.com/going-paid
petercooper 4y ago
I do seven figures on developer newsletters (just!)

omarhaneef 4y ago

This was much more interesting than I expected. I have always been interested in how other people work, prioritize, think, their workflow and tools, and this really spoke to that interest. Here were some surprises: -- I was much more interested in their software than hardware. -- I was most interested in their physical set up. This told me more about workflow than I imagined. -- Everyone has a camera and mic these days -- table stakes -- but people had much fancier camera/mic setups than I do. -- I also have a pad and pen. I was interested to see some people had set up a mini-teleprompter by putting their pad next to their screen.

ryangilbert 4y ago
Good to know about the software vs hardware angle... I wonder how many readers feel the same? I'll look to add a poll in the newsletter soon to find out! :)

jhickok 4y ago

Oh nice, a Milwaukee guy! Cool newsletter, for one reason or another I have always been interested in desk setups.

ryangilbert 4y ago
Milwaukee! Yeah... when people started tweeting pictures of their spaces I was instantly drawn to them for my own inspiration. I figured others might be too!

KingOfCoders 4y ago

Some years ago in a startup we had a 10k subscriber newsletter for event locations and made much much more per month than $2000. You might be too cheap. [Edit] Especially with that backlog.

ryangilbert 4y ago
Been thinking it might be time to up prices! The slots have been sold out months in advance so it's hard to factor in growth when booking. I do pause new sponsors from time to time when I book out too far to give myself a chance to reevaluate.
- lprubin 4y ago
  Did these sponsors just start contacting you inbound or did you do cold outreach?
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    All have been inbound with the exception of one sponsor who I thought would be a perfect fit for the audience. They agreed and bought two slots.
- 6510 4y ago
  A better question to ask imho would be what improvements you can make on a larger budget.

ilamont 4y ago

I have a targeted newsletter as well with about 8000 unique opens per week (out of a total active list of 30k) which I am using to boost sales on a Shopify store, and I also re-purpose the content as blog posts. I have also been thinking about sponsorships but do not know where to start. What are the requirements of the sponsors in terms of graphics, text, placement, links, tracking, and analytics? Do they demand email addresses of your readers?

ryangilbert 4y ago
I start all of the sponsor slot with "A Message From sponsor name". After that they provide me with ~250 or so characters of text (not too strict on this) as well as text + link for a CTA button. Outside of that, there are no demands from their end. Some ask for the Click Rate after the fact and some don't. If they ask I give it to them. The main back and forth with sponsors is that when they book multiple slots they often want to test multiple versions of copy and/or CTA button.

boplicity 4y ago

What's your process for securing sponsors for the newsletter? How is the sponsor slot integrated into the email?

ryangilbert 4y ago
Every month or so I add a short blurb at the beginning of a newsletter asking for sponsors and laying out my current metrics. This always leads to multiple readers replying with interest. The typical sponsor has gone on to book 4 slots at a time (I do not offer a bulk discount - this is just what they tend to do). The slot is integrated right after the intro blurb and before the guest's content. I offer them a headline, some text (not too strict on character count as long as it isn't crazy) and a CTA button.
- O__________O 4y ago
  Here’s an past example of a sponsor pitch from April: I have two sponsor slots open next weekend. Reply to this email if you’re interested in learning more about sponsoring Workspaces! Some quick numbers: 5,700 subscribers 55% open rate ______________ Source and AD example in link below: https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/149-allan-grinshtein https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/149-allan-grinshtein
- rococode 4y ago
  Wow, is that the full extent of your sales efforts? Your readers happen to include enough interested sponsors that you've been able to sell out your slots just by asking your audience? That's awesome!
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    Yep! I have a very engaged audience - many who have their own side projects or work for companies that fit the perfect sponsor demographic. I think I have gotten very lucky in this regard and it might change if prices go up.

ryanjamurphy 4y ago

I am suspicious of this project: the real goal is clearly to get people to clean their desks. And it is effective!

ryangilbert 4y ago
Haha some people have actually said no because previous guests had too clean of desks! I promise that I welcome all workspaces - clean and dirty!

didgetmaster 4y ago

It looks like you are up to 175 posts of various workspaces. I didn't look at each one, but all the ones I saw were nicely staged, organized workspaces. Did you get any submissions for 'real workspaces' with stacks of books, papers all over the place, and sticky-notes all around the monitors? If you did, did you reject them? I too, have a newsletter that I started last year about data management. I only have about a hundred subscribers so far, but I am trying to grow it with interesting articles about how computers organize, process, and analyze all kinds of data. https://didgets.substack.com/ https://didgets.substack.com/ If I get a few thousand subscribers like you, I might look for sponsors too.

ryangilbert 4y ago
I don't reject them for being "messy"! I didn't anticipate so many people cleaning their desks off before their feature but that is what many have opted to do. Here's some "real" ones: https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/106-michele-hansen https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/106-michele-hansen https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/070-alex-wilhelm https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/070-alex-wilhelm
- rabidonrails 4y ago
  Doesn't surprise me that Alex didn't go nuts to make his space look "perfect." I met him a couple years ago back and he was a really nice, smart, and incredibly authentic kinda guy. It even comes through in his interview: "Some sort of ergo-friendly chair that I bought online" "Apple Watch in case I work out"
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    Haha yeah I'm glad he kept his space as is!
pandemicsoul 4y ago
I won't presume to speak for the owner of this newsletter, but I do receive it, and I'd just say: "I don't want to see messy spaces." The whole point of seeing other people's workspaces is for inspiration – what are ways I could organize my desk, what are some neat things I might want to add, what tech is out there I could purchase to make me like my workspace better. My workspace sometimes look messy, but I always clean up before people come over, so it's kinda the same thing here? I'm sure lots of these folks let their workspaces look lived-in normally, but that's not what we're here for.

criddell 4y ago

Have any of the workspaces you've posted led to you making changes in your workspace? Have you ever posted your workspace?

ryangilbert 4y ago
Yes, actually! I have bought a few things after seeing them showcased in some workspaces. I have also bought some artwork that a few of the featured guests created - partly to support/thank them and partly because I loved the art.

no_time 4y ago

Just curious, would you feature an absolute trainwreck of a setup like [0] if the owner submitted it or do you intend on keeping it strictly upper middle class? [0]: https://bnn-news.com/wp-content/gallery/offices/computer-room-5.jpg https://bnn-news.com/wp-content/gallery/offices/computer-roo...

didgetmaster 4y ago
I think the point of the newsletter is to showcase workspaces at home that really work for those doing creative things. It doesn't have to be an expensive setup or a super clean environment, but it should be functional for the task at hand. Just throwing an old computer on top of a garbage heap doesn't do anything for me!
- ryangilbert 4y ago
  Exactly. I have and will feature all spaces but I think the nature of the audience and who I reach out to for their setup tends to direct the content in a certain direction.
- 6510 4y ago
  Maybe if you are working on game graphics for some post apocalyptic dystopia.
- amelius 4y ago
  You could wear VR goggles and turn that garbage heap into a beautiful beach. Someone should start selling VR workspaces.
  - jspiral 4y ago
    i am very interested in the next generation of things like horizon workrooms on oculus. I find the current gen unpleasant to use for long periods of time but I'm sure it can be improved
  - gpm 4y ago
    First you need VR goggles that you can reasonably work in... These guys are making a go at that: https://simulavr.com/ https://simulavr.com/ And facebook is probably going to in the future given the R&D they've been showing off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6AOwDttBsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6AOwDttBsc But having used the current generations of headsets (Valve Index, Quest 2), they just aren't quite there yet.

didgetmaster 4y ago

Have you had anyone submit a 'before and after' workspace where they showed a slightly disorganized setup along with how it looked after they spent some time getting it into better shape? They could then discuss how their productivity was affected by their changes.

ryangilbert 4y ago
Haven't yet but I like that idea and it could be something fun to explore soon!

egypturnash 4y ago

These are all so clean. And so indoors. Are you interested in a glimpse into the very messy desk of an artist who also spends a lot of time sitting out in the park with her laptop?

ryangilbert 4y ago
Of course! I have a few outdoor/iPad type setups in the backlog similar to this: https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/140-jaisal-rathee https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/140-jaisal-rathee
DiggyJohnson 4y ago
Amen

wooque 4y ago

Can't go through all of them, but I'm curious is there anyone who uses Linux on their machine?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

xwdv 4y ago

For how many months has it been making 2k now?

ryangilbert 4y ago
Started sponsorships in January of this year (2022) and it has been sold out ever since. Pricing started at $150 for the first month and has been $250 ever since.
- xwdv 4y ago
  What’s revenue growth looked like from month to month
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    Stable at $2,000. Have been sold out for months and haven't increased prices because of that. Temporarily put a pause on new sponsors while I get through the current slots and look at subscriber growth, open rates, click rates, etc.

aml183 4y ago

I run Payload (http://payloadspace.com/ http://payloadspace.com/). We are a media company covering the space industry. Congrats on all your success so far. For those reading this, there is a lot of riches in the niches. Just choose a topic that you don't think gets a lot of coverage and start writing about it. Two areas that come to mind: - Geospatial - Nuclear Energy Media/content -- to Ryan's point is being consistent. As long as you do that once you have PMF, you'll grow and make money.

tomcam 4y ago
It’s always good to have that PMF. So many of us are struggling for it… uh, what is PMF?
- tomcam 4y ago
  A web search failed but I just tried Hacker News search. It means Product Market Fit, I think

SantiagoElf 4y ago

Why are almost all setups Mac based ? ;/

binkHN 4y ago
I emailed Ryan thinking it would be fun to post my setup; I have a ThinkPad ;) .

tarte-au-poire 4y ago

I know nothing about finding advertising money… but your subject matter is good one no? ( your audience is open to workspace improvements)

ryangilbert 4y ago
The subject/audience are perfect for a wide range of sponsors.

zerop 4y ago

I am planning to get a custom made study table and workspace for my son.. Any suggestions?

ryangilbert 4y ago
I have seen a few people use butcher block top on a custom frame and it's something I've wanted to do lately. Maybe something like that would be fun? https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/160-jason-long https://www.workspaces.xyz/p/160-jason-long

durandaul 4y ago

What did you use for tools/subscription management? All custom or did you use a pre made service like hubspot?

ryangilbert 4y ago
Twitter DMs and GMail for all things related to the outreach and management of the content. Substack for the actual publishing. As barebones as you can get! (This will be changing a tiny bit next week)
- durandaul 4y ago
  What do you think of https://www.getrevue.co/ https://www.getrevue.co/ ?
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    I’ve never used it as a publisher but don’t like the design much as a reader of a couple newsletters hosted on it.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

clove 4y ago

I have a newsletter making $2k from 20 subscribers.

nscalf 4y ago

Congrats! Awesome to see some others from the newsletter world here. I'm a bit earlier than you are along the process, I have a crypto based newsletter which has about 1200 subscribers, ~50 editions sent, and just started conversations with interested sponsors (we also had inbounds which we have not really engaged with). Our SEO is doing pretty well, we get roughly 3500 people coming to the site per month, and when something in crypto world blows up we double that. I have 2 tactical questions for you: 1. That seems like a relatively high CPM for your niche, how did you structure your sponsorships to get there? To be more specific, what are the normal sponsorship lengths, do you do a short term and then renegotiate after they've seen click throughs, does click through come into play in your negotiations, etc. 2. Your open rate is amazing. We used to maintain an open rate in the 40%'s, but we saw a dropoff and have been struggling to get from mid 20s back to mid 40s for a while now. I know this is because we end up in promotions, but can't quite arcane how to get out of those folders. Did you do anything in particular to maintain your open rate?

ryangilbert 4y ago
Thanks for the questions! 1. The $250 is a flat rate for one newsletter edition but also ends up on the blog portion which is then shared on Twitter. Some of these tweets do 50,000+ impressions on Twitter. This isn’t guaranteed but is something the sponsors are considering when placing an ad. We typically don’t even get into CTR before or after the slot but can if a specific sponsor or potential sponsor wants to. The main metrics they’ve asked about is newsletter size and open rate. This might have to change if I look to increase prices. 2. My “welcome to the list” email reminds people to add the newsletter to their primary inbox. Once a month or so I also add a short note to kick off a newsletter reminding people to ensure we are in their primary box. I don’t know if this has helped with anything at all but it’s worth doing IMO.
- nscalf 4y ago
  Awesome, thanks for the answers! I'd also love to hear an update on what trending on HN does for subscriptions, we've had some articles trend on here before and it's a pretty nice bump, but people were clicking primarily for a story not a newsletter. This got me to sub at least!

99cent 4y ago

I'm curious about this too. And as a non-developer myself I don't see this asked/answered: What platform do yo use for your website and for the newsletter? Do you self-host or have a hosting service you recommend for doing this? I have always wanted to do a similar thing, targeting a niche segment, but don't know how to start on the technical side of things. Thanks!

afkqs 4y ago
It seems to be made with Substack [1] [1] https://substack.com/ https://substack.com/
ryangilbert 4y ago
I am hosting this on Substack (https://substack.com/ https://substack.com/) which was free to get started in minutes. I was able to buy and add my own domain later as well. If I were starting from scratch today I would choose Beehiiv (https://www.beehiiv.com/ https://www.beehiiv.com/ ) over Substack. They just seem to care more and are more or less the same but adding features much quicker. I am moving to a custom setup soon but the above options are very useful in getting something off the ground.
- lrae 4y ago
  beehiiv is for sure interesting, but also pretty expensive (for people starting out) with $50/month if you want to use your own domain. Just that people don't overlook that.
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    True! I did start and grow this without my own domain for awhile (not sure I would recommend doing this if you have hopes of turning it into more than a hobby - too risky trying to grab a name later).

lacoolj 4y ago

No questions but will be a new sub for you :)

lacoolj 4y ago

Oh I actually do have a question. Is your setup featured too? If not, let's see it!

stevenjgarner 4y ago
EMPHASIS
ryangilbert 4y ago
Hasn’t been featured yet but it is coming soon!

stevenjgarner 4y ago

New subscriber. Thanks for sharing. Would you be willing to expand on and clarify your revenue model? So inspiring and aspirational I'm sure to many of us on HN. Who was your first paid sponsor?

ryangilbert 4y ago
Glad you liked it! The revenue model is simply charging sponsors (1 per newsletter edition) a flat rate to get their message in front of my growing and engaged subscriber-base. First paid sponsor (and most that have followed) was a reader of the newsletter who wanted to promote their product to the audience.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

kuboble 4y ago

Do you have much more traffic on the most recent additions as compared to the most popular historical ones? Are you selling place for "message from X" on a post for a limited time or the ad stays forever? Sounds like a bargain for buyers to pay once and benefit from all future visitors.

ryangilbert 4y ago
The most popular historical editions still rank towards the top in terms of traffic and sign ups from them. The more recent “average” spaces have more traffic than similar ones from months ago. The ad appears in the newsletter and also the blog but is sold for the newsletter (the blog and tweet traffic after are a nice bonus and can’t be guaranteed - every tweet performs differently).

anyfactor 4y ago

This is what I was looking for! I love seeing other people's normal work setup. I will tell you my story. I was doing part time freelance dev work when I was uni (/college). I was very proud of my setup. My siblings essnetially gifted me the entire setup a decent laptop, dual monitors, mechanical keyboard, MMO mouse with 12 programmable buttons. I didn't use the setup for entertainment just for freelance projects and sideprojects. Then I got a "real" job working for a bank. I had to move out to a shared aparartment. Oddly, I would often just imagine myself in desk. For some reason, imagining myself there acted like my meditation/zen place. Helped me sleep. One of the main reason, why I left that job and now work execlusively from my home is my setup. It is pretty damn average but being there comforts me.

mmorris 4y ago

If you're still selling out at $250, have you considered raising prices again? Thanks for sharing this, it’s great to see people making money off of something they love.

ryangilbert 4y ago
I’ve definitely considered it but I have an (irrational) fear of having gaps in sponsor slots once I raise them. I feel that if I end up having gaps other potential sponsors may get scared off thinking that the price isn’t worth it because “clearly others are passing on it too”.

gexaha 4y ago

would be interesting to see the setup of the artist Jon Rafman, he has an old photo with his messy setup (but maybe the photo is staged): https://www.monopol-magazin.de/sites/default/files/styles/min_autox1000/public/img_d7/press_pic_rafman_0.jpg?itok=rHYYsytX https://www.monopol-magazin.de/sites/default/files/styles/mi...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

yoyopa 4y ago

how do you know if subscribers are real, and 3000 of them are not actually cats?

ryangilbert 4y ago
I guess it’s a good thing that I like cats.

rhipitr 4y ago

How did you get initial traction for your newsletter?

ryangilbert 4y ago
Twitter!

thelittleone 4y ago

How do you handle submissions? Just by email or perhaps with a webform?

ryangilbert 4y ago
All handled through email to this point! It has worked well and allows for some personal back and forth.
- thelittleone 4y ago
  Thanks! Looking at archives I see most have list of equipment and then some questions and answers. Do you prefer submissions process to be free format or more structured with standard questions?
  - ryangilbert 4y ago
    A mix of both! The Q/A section is totally optional for guests. I might look into diving deeper on some of the interviews going forward. I'd prefer if all guests listed their hardware/software though along with the picture(s).

archagon 4y ago

Congratulations! This is just my cup of tea, and I subscribed to your site's RSS feed. With that said, the question that springs to my mind is: what do you as a newsletter curator bring to something like this over a community-based site like /r/workspaces?

ryangilbert 4y ago
A more personal touch with a consistent and predictable publishing schedule? Really not sure... they're pretty similar!

jotjotzzz 4y ago

As someone who is starting something like this, how did you get your guests? Did you cold email some of them? And did you give them anything for participating? Thanks!

ryangilbert 4y ago
Cold outreach to start. Now the majority of guests reply to the emails or DM me on Twitter asking if they can also be included. I've never offered anyone anything for participating other than allowing them the opportunity to plug anything they'd like in their intro!

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

sebastix 4y ago

Have you always sended 2-3 editions a week since the start? How can creatives signup for showing off their workspace? I have a small workspace in an old monastery ;-)

ryangilbert 4y ago
I started with 1 edition per week. I upped it to 2x due to an increasing backlog (may need to up to 3x but TBD on that). For now you can shoot me a DM here https://twitter.com/rjgilbert https://twitter.com/rjgilbert or email me at ryangilbert dot co and we can kick things off! In a ~week or so I will have a better way to welcome submissions :)
- sebastix 4y ago
  Thanks for your quick reply! I'll send you a message!

fraXis 4y ago

Can you please take about the tech stack behind the newsletter (software you use to write the actual newsletter, the service you use to send it and what you like and don't like about it, and your website tech stack)? :-)

ryangilbert 4y ago
Of course! I handle all outreach/content organization through Twitter DMs and GMail. I do all writing + publishing through Substack. Starting next week I will have a much more visual site that's using Webflow. Super excited for the refreshing change!

cherylo 4y ago

What if you have a physical product (I sell collectible dolls)mostly on eBay where they won’t let you exchange email addresses? I have the physical addresses that I shipped to but don’t know how to get them signed up. I have a page on the website to sign up but they don’t go there. Any ideas on how to build a list to send a newsletter to? Thanks!!