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Even if someone doesn't need to work at a sufficiently low level as to need that information regularly, not knowing that suggests a severe lack of fundamentals

Even if someone doesn't need to work at a sufficiently low level as to need that information regularly, not knowing that suggests a severe lack of fundamentals and hints at trouble on the horizon. Someone could play at chemist and work with raw materials and follow recipes without knowing about electron orbitals, but without that understanding they may make disastrous choices if given insufficient oversight and their capacity for problem solving is limited.

popcorncowboy 4y ago
> not knowing that suggests a severe lack of fundamentals and hints at trouble on the horizon Exactly this. Strictly speaking you really don't need to know how many bits are in a byte, but it'd be difficult not to have picked up this kind of information having spent any time in the field. The absence of this knowledge is a strong indicator of shallow expertise.
- schwartzworld 4y ago
  I knew the answer, but that's because I learned it as a kid. I've never seen bits or bytes mentioned in resources for learning high level languages, nor has the topic ever come up in a professional setting. For a professional dev in a high level language, this basically is a useless piece of trivia. It doesn't hint at trouble, because my code runs on machines that measure memory in gigabytes or at least hundreds of megabytes. Gatekeeping.
  - wink 4y ago
    I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the so called high level languages like Python or Java are perfectly capable of working with bits and bytes, and countless developers have done so. The gatekeeping card won't fly here. This is not some obscure implementation detail of C/C++.
    - schwartzworld 4y ago
      I know they can work with bits and bytes, but your average web dev often doesn't get into that kind of stuff. I don't need the bitshift operator to put a button on a webpage or expose an endpoint.
woojoo666 4y ago
Why is so fundamental about the fact that a byte is 8 bits? The fact that a byte is 8 bits is more for historical reasons. Likewise, an int is traditionally 32 bits, but Javascript and Python programmers don't need to worry about that. If a programmer doesn't know that a byte is 8 bits, they probably just forgot it since it wasn't necessary for them to know.
- Kim_Bruning 4y ago
  Well, I would be slightly worried if a carpenter forgot how many centimeters go into a meter. (Or how many feet go into a yard?). "Sure", you say, "but they don't need to know it by heart. The carpenter can always look that up if they really need it." This is true. You are 100% correct. But think of this: Said conversion is pretty common in Carpentry, so each time our Carpenter forgets, they're going to end up looking it up again really quickly. You would think that after having looked it up umpteen times, the Carpenter would effectively end up memorizing the conversion by accident. Right? So while I suppose it's not strictly necessary, it would definitely be a bit funny to encounter a Professional Carpenter who doesn't have centimeters<->meters memorized.
  - Ralfp 4y ago
    This analogy assumes that JS/Python devs work with byte-level measurements all the time like how carpenters work with measurements centimeter-level measurements, which is very debatable.
    - Kim_Bruning 4y ago
      Two things: As the saying goes: if all you have is a hammer, every problem resembles a nail. You can validly say "I've never actually needed a screwdriver", even if the screwdriver might have been more useful for the job at hand. It also depends on what domain you're working in. I just happen to have been working on a Python/JS GUI to operate a Robot this past month. Interfacing with the Robot did require use of bits and bytes. Fortunately both Python and Javascript do support those operations for just those kinds of situations. So while I do agree that some jobs can be done in javascript and python where you can avoid needing bits and bytes, that's my two answers: 1) Bits and bytes sure can come in handy at times. They might be the best tool for some jobs. and 2) For some jobs you really do need to manipulate bits and bytes. You can't avoid them forever. So if you like writing a lot of different kinds of programs for a lot of different kinds of things, you're almost certain to end up using bits and bytes sooner or later. Do that often enough and it does tend to stick. That includes Python and Javascript.

popcorncowboy 4y ago

> not knowing that suggests a severe lack of fundamentals and hints at trouble on the horizon Exactly this. Strictly speaking you really don't need to know how many bits are in a byte, but it'd be difficult not to have picked up this kind of information having spent any time in the field. The absence of this knowledge is a strong indicator of shallow expertise.

schwartzworld 4y ago
I knew the answer, but that's because I learned it as a kid. I've never seen bits or bytes mentioned in resources for learning high level languages, nor has the topic ever come up in a professional setting. For a professional dev in a high level language, this basically is a useless piece of trivia. It doesn't hint at trouble, because my code runs on machines that measure memory in gigabytes or at least hundreds of megabytes. Gatekeeping.
- wink 4y ago
  I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the so called high level languages like Python or Java are perfectly capable of working with bits and bytes, and countless developers have done so. The gatekeeping card won't fly here. This is not some obscure implementation detail of C/C++.
  - schwartzworld 4y ago
    I know they can work with bits and bytes, but your average web dev often doesn't get into that kind of stuff. I don't need the bitshift operator to put a button on a webpage or expose an endpoint.

woojoo666 4y ago

Why is so fundamental about the fact that a byte is 8 bits? The fact that a byte is 8 bits is more for historical reasons. Likewise, an int is traditionally 32 bits, but Javascript and Python programmers don't need to worry about that. If a programmer doesn't know that a byte is 8 bits, they probably just forgot it since it wasn't necessary for them to know.

Kim_Bruning 4y ago
Well, I would be slightly worried if a carpenter forgot how many centimeters go into a meter. (Or how many feet go into a yard?). "Sure", you say, "but they don't need to know it by heart. The carpenter can always look that up if they really need it." This is true. You are 100% correct. But think of this: Said conversion is pretty common in Carpentry, so each time our Carpenter forgets, they're going to end up looking it up again really quickly. You would think that after having looked it up umpteen times, the Carpenter would effectively end up memorizing the conversion by accident. Right? So while I suppose it's not strictly necessary, it would definitely be a bit funny to encounter a Professional Carpenter who doesn't have centimeters<->meters memorized.
- Ralfp 4y ago
  This analogy assumes that JS/Python devs work with byte-level measurements all the time like how carpenters work with measurements centimeter-level measurements, which is very debatable.
  - Kim_Bruning 4y ago
    Two things: As the saying goes: if all you have is a hammer, every problem resembles a nail. You can validly say "I've never actually needed a screwdriver", even if the screwdriver might have been more useful for the job at hand. It also depends on what domain you're working in. I just happen to have been working on a Python/JS GUI to operate a Robot this past month. Interfacing with the Robot did require use of bits and bytes. Fortunately both Python and Javascript do support those operations for just those kinds of situations. So while I do agree that some jobs can be done in javascript and python where you can avoid needing bits and bytes, that's my two answers: 1) Bits and bytes sure can come in handy at times. They might be the best tool for some jobs. and 2) For some jobs you really do need to manipulate bits and bytes. You can't avoid them forever. So if you like writing a lot of different kinds of programs for a lot of different kinds of things, you're almost certain to end up using bits and bytes sooner or later. Do that often enough and it does tend to stick. That includes Python and Javascript.