7 ms·

I'm a huge admirer of TikTok and love to use it -- once a week only! -- but I sort of agree with the US government that it's crazy to give that much of (mostly)

by biztos 4y ago

I'm a huge admirer of TikTok and love to use it -- once a week only! -- but I sort of agree with the US government that it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary. However I find it baffling that all the VC in the Global West is unable to come up with a popular alternative, even though it's glaringly obvious[0] what the "secret sauce" is in TikTok and why it works so well. Instead we get stuff like this, where a quite good photo-sharing service radically undermines its inherent advantages in order to play catch-up, with most of the videos still sporting a TikTok logo. At some level I'm happy if Zuckerberg destroys my artists' community on IG because it at least opens the door to creating a better one elsewhere. But I'm also a little worried that this coterie of billionaires keeps having their lunch eaten by a pretty straightforward system run on a pretty classic Valley model. [0]: https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/a16z-podcast/tiktoks-algorithm-and-fnmQJvK1w4N/ https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/a16z-podcast/tiktoks-al...

t0mas88 4y ago
> but I sort of agree with the US government that it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary. In a way Europe has been doing that for many years. The US does not have any privacy protection of foreigners, the NSA is only not supposed to capture data on US citizens. Only now are we seeing Google Analytics banned in many European countries. But it's a very small step.
- colonwqbang 4y ago
  You have a point, but the way Europeans see the US is very different from how they see China. The US has done some morally questionable things in recent memory (War on terror, Snowden/Assange, Trump, etc) but on the whole US is seen as an ally, not an adversary.
  - lnxg33k1 4y ago
    Only for politicians, it’s been 20 years that I haven’t met an European who consider the us an ally, and I’ve lived in Uk Germany Netherlands and Italy, but so far we’ve voted US allying politicians because of the threat of nationalist parties, but at least in Italy is about to change due to the energy crisis we’re going through thanks to us
    - ryanwaggoner 4y ago
      That’s probably more about who you spend time with, as a very strong majority of Europeans surveyed view the US as an ally and have an overall positive view: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/22/international-public-opinion-of-the-u-s-remains-positive/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/22/international-...
      - lnxg33k1 4y ago
        I’ve seen citizen burning cities when there were Americans involved, just think about the g7 and g8 and ttip protests, I really don’t believe polls, but we’ll see upcoming elections I guess
    - ramblerman 4y ago
      > I haven’t met an European who consider the US an ally, What hyperbole. There are plenty, myself included. Don't confuse criticism of the US with us not being an ally. > the energy crisis we’re going through thanks to US ??? The finger is clearly pointed at Putin and Germany's naivity over the past 10 years for this mess we are in. I'd be curious to read a European publication that even suggests this is due to the US (if you have a link).
      - jvanderbot 4y ago
        currently in the US, Fox is blaming Biden. That might be enough for some, esp any Russian apologists.
        lnxg33k1 4y ago
        For the whole of Trump administration, he was really good at making peace when things where going south, he never said that he would protect for example Taiwan directly in case of attack of China. I miss Trump so much, like he was a issue for US , but the rest of the world just could have a laugh and live in peace It was Obama that started poking Putin saying that he was at the end of a medium power, and it is Biden that is giving all the weapons asked to Ukraine without even asking for a way to de-escalate and find a compromise, it is Biden that is letting Ukrainian lose territory and life just for weakening Russia for US interests
- orangepurple 4y ago
  Wait until Europeans find out all of their bank data is analyzed in the Google Cloud
  - t0bia_s 4y ago
    Not that bad as Chinese investments in European universities. Shaping education by foreigners that not accept democratic principles is far more dangerous. Sure, we can speak about political correctness from West in campuses, but that has no future by definition. However... Both trends has similar goal to steal freedom from citizens.
    - Banana699 4y ago
      >Sure, we can speak about political correctness from West in campuses, but that has no future by definition. Why ? political correctness in progressive-dominated spcaces like western uni campuses goes back to the 70s/80s. I was browsing Ted Kaczynski's (better known as the UnaBomber) Industrial Society and Its Future[1], and he spoke about political correctness as an established thing. A 40-year phenomenon seems like something that won't end anytime soon. >Shaping education by foreigners that not accept democratic principles is far more dangerous. I wouldn't be too quick to judge. Not all of china is a single brain, maybe the people funding european universities have meaningful ideological differences from the ruling class. And the blanket usage of "democratic principles" irritates me hugely, because most of modern wesern democracies is a pathetic and transparent sham that is trampled at the earliest encounter with any real established power. [1] http://besser.tsoa.nyu.edu/howard/Anarchism/Unabom/manifesto.html http://besser.tsoa.nyu.edu/howard/Anarchism/Unabom/manifesto...
      - boppo1 4y ago
        >most of modern wesern democracies is a pathetic and transparent sham that is trampled at the earliest encounter with any real established power I agree with this on a knee-jerk, but it still seems to me 'the west' is different from China, Russia, etc. Why do I feel that, what's the source?
- Zeebrommer 4y ago
  That is not nearly the same thing. The US and western Europe have been roughly aligned about geopolitical interests, values (democracy, freedom, mostly liberal, based on a secularising Christian foundation), rules and laws. China is diametrically opposed on all those things. The cultural influence of the US on Europe is enormous, and the US has often crossed the line spying on European citizens, but the US is not an adversary.
  - krageon 4y ago
    The only values the US and the EU align on are brutal profiteering at the expense of overseas territories. If anything, I kind of hope that China replaces the US as the influential friend and we get less of this war apologism. The US is a big bully and at every turn where it has influenced EU culture the EU has become objectively worse. For it's own citizens, for any foreign powers interacting with it, the works.
  - innocentoldguy 4y ago
    I don't think the opposition is as diametric as you may think, when it comes to values. I've been to China several times and from my perspective, US liberalism has embraced quite a lot of Communist China's values and behaviors. For example: 1. Committing acts of violence against people they don't agree with. 2. Silencing opposing opinions. 3. Media and political propaganda, projection, and gaslighting. 4. Vilifying segments of society. 5. A tiered justice system. 6. Consequentialism. 7. Destruction of history to fit a modern narrative.
solarkraft 4y ago
> it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary. You mean an adversary from China rather than an adversary from the US? There's a small, but not that significant advantage in having the company having ~questionable~ societal effects be from your own country, especially if you're not going to regulate them anyway.

by biztos 4y ago

t0mas88 4y ago

> but I sort of agree with the US government that it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary. In a way Europe has been doing that for many years. The US does not have any privacy protection of foreigners, the NSA is only not supposed to capture data on US citizens. Only now are we seeing Google Analytics banned in many European countries. But it's a very small step.

colonwqbang 4y ago
You have a point, but the way Europeans see the US is very different from how they see China. The US has done some morally questionable things in recent memory (War on terror, Snowden/Assange, Trump, etc) but on the whole US is seen as an ally, not an adversary.
- lnxg33k1 4y ago
  Only for politicians, it’s been 20 years that I haven’t met an European who consider the us an ally, and I’ve lived in Uk Germany Netherlands and Italy, but so far we’ve voted US allying politicians because of the threat of nationalist parties, but at least in Italy is about to change due to the energy crisis we’re going through thanks to us
  - ryanwaggoner 4y ago
    That’s probably more about who you spend time with, as a very strong majority of Europeans surveyed view the US as an ally and have an overall positive view: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/22/international-public-opinion-of-the-u-s-remains-positive/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/22/international-...
    - lnxg33k1 4y ago
      I’ve seen citizen burning cities when there were Americans involved, just think about the g7 and g8 and ttip protests, I really don’t believe polls, but we’ll see upcoming elections I guess
  - ramblerman 4y ago
    > I haven’t met an European who consider the US an ally, What hyperbole. There are plenty, myself included. Don't confuse criticism of the US with us not being an ally. > the energy crisis we’re going through thanks to US ??? The finger is clearly pointed at Putin and Germany's naivity over the past 10 years for this mess we are in. I'd be curious to read a European publication that even suggests this is due to the US (if you have a link).
    - jvanderbot 4y ago
      currently in the US, Fox is blaming Biden. That might be enough for some, esp any Russian apologists.
      - lnxg33k1 4y ago
        For the whole of Trump administration, he was really good at making peace when things where going south, he never said that he would protect for example Taiwan directly in case of attack of China. I miss Trump so much, like he was a issue for US , but the rest of the world just could have a laugh and live in peace It was Obama that started poking Putin saying that he was at the end of a medium power, and it is Biden that is giving all the weapons asked to Ukraine without even asking for a way to de-escalate and find a compromise, it is Biden that is letting Ukrainian lose territory and life just for weakening Russia for US interests
orangepurple 4y ago
Wait until Europeans find out all of their bank data is analyzed in the Google Cloud
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  Not that bad as Chinese investments in European universities. Shaping education by foreigners that not accept democratic principles is far more dangerous. Sure, we can speak about political correctness from West in campuses, but that has no future by definition. However... Both trends has similar goal to steal freedom from citizens.
  - Banana699 4y ago
    >Sure, we can speak about political correctness from West in campuses, but that has no future by definition. Why ? political correctness in progressive-dominated spcaces like western uni campuses goes back to the 70s/80s. I was browsing Ted Kaczynski's (better known as the UnaBomber) Industrial Society and Its Future[1], and he spoke about political correctness as an established thing. A 40-year phenomenon seems like something that won't end anytime soon. >Shaping education by foreigners that not accept democratic principles is far more dangerous. I wouldn't be too quick to judge. Not all of china is a single brain, maybe the people funding european universities have meaningful ideological differences from the ruling class. And the blanket usage of "democratic principles" irritates me hugely, because most of modern wesern democracies is a pathetic and transparent sham that is trampled at the earliest encounter with any real established power. [1] http://besser.tsoa.nyu.edu/howard/Anarchism/Unabom/manifesto.html http://besser.tsoa.nyu.edu/howard/Anarchism/Unabom/manifesto...
    - boppo1 4y ago
      >most of modern wesern democracies is a pathetic and transparent sham that is trampled at the earliest encounter with any real established power I agree with this on a knee-jerk, but it still seems to me 'the west' is different from China, Russia, etc. Why do I feel that, what's the source?
Zeebrommer 4y ago
That is not nearly the same thing. The US and western Europe have been roughly aligned about geopolitical interests, values (democracy, freedom, mostly liberal, based on a secularising Christian foundation), rules and laws. China is diametrically opposed on all those things. The cultural influence of the US on Europe is enormous, and the US has often crossed the line spying on European citizens, but the US is not an adversary.
- krageon 4y ago
  The only values the US and the EU align on are brutal profiteering at the expense of overseas territories. If anything, I kind of hope that China replaces the US as the influential friend and we get less of this war apologism. The US is a big bully and at every turn where it has influenced EU culture the EU has become objectively worse. For it's own citizens, for any foreign powers interacting with it, the works.
- innocentoldguy 4y ago
  I don't think the opposition is as diametric as you may think, when it comes to values. I've been to China several times and from my perspective, US liberalism has embraced quite a lot of Communist China's values and behaviors. For example: 1. Committing acts of violence against people they don't agree with. 2. Silencing opposing opinions. 3. Media and political propaganda, projection, and gaslighting. 4. Vilifying segments of society. 5. A tiered justice system. 6. Consequentialism. 7. Destruction of history to fit a modern narrative.

solarkraft 4y ago

> it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary. You mean an adversary from China rather than an adversary from the US? There's a small, but not that significant advantage in having the company having ~questionable~ societal effects be from your own country, especially if you're not going to regulate them anyway.