14 ms·

It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". It's not only

by smsm42 4y ago

It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". It's not only on the big political scene - it's everywhere, from a village grocery store to a national federation. If you admit any mistake and any responsibility for anything, you're an idiot and a "loch" (pronounced the same as Scottish lake, but means a person to be taken advantage of, one that is too stupid to take care of oneself and deserves to be cheated and mistreated). It's a culture-wide thing. And denying responsibility and lying is not considered really shameful in such situation - it's the expected behavior and getting away with it is a sign you are powerful and worthy of respect.

dang 4y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32209674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32209674.
birdyrooster 4y ago
Come on, there is no way they are that cartoonish.
- markdown 4y ago
  They're not. It's a massive country with many different races and cultures in it. Painting them all with one brush isn't very nice.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    This is Moscow though. I think it’s fairly likely the culture in Moscow is fairly homogenous.
    - carbadtraingood 4y ago
      Is it? Is the culture of Paris fairly homogenous? New York? London? Berlin? I would imagine the place has some shared cultural understandings, generally, but that a big city is going to be much more heterogenous. But maybe I'm thinking too micro scale.
      - smsm42 4y ago
        You need to realize though the West has embraced multiculturalism, largely. Russia has not. It does not mean there are no diverse cultures in Russia - or even Moscow, but it does mean there is one dominant culture, and closer you get to the places where power is accessible, the more dominant and more exclusive it becomes. There are various cultures found in Moscow (and any big city in Russia), but there is also the Culture. In the West, a lot of effort is taken for the old Western culture not to be the culture of Paris, New York, London, Berlin, etc. Some endorse these efforts, some decry them, but it is obvious they happen. In Russia, nothing of the sort happens, on the contrary, if you want to be in power, you will abandon whatever culture you came from and embrace the culture of power. If you do not, you'll never get to wield any power.
        TylerLives 4y ago
        What is the "culture of power", can you give some examples? And what are your pronouns?
        smsm42 4y ago
        > What is the "culture of power", can you give some examples? I thought I did, in my comments uptopic. If you expect me to write a doctoral thesis on modern Russian culture, sorry, I am neither qualified nor it is the right place. While I have plenties of anecdotal data, and would be glad to share my experience to the extent I can, systematic treatment of a culture is not something one could do in a random comment on HN. I can name it, at best - Russian Imperial culture, and describe some of its qualities, but anything beyond that will have to wait for somebody who either has a PhD or wants to get one researching Russian culture. > And what are your pronouns? None of your business/None of your business.
        TylerLives 4y ago
        If you're talking about your first comment in this chain(about people refusing to take responsibility), I don't see how that's related to multiculturalism. I've never been to Russia, and I don't even watch Russian media often, but from what I can see, they're trying to promote multiculturalism a lot. It's not that I don't believe that Russia has a "culture of power" and that people at the top all share the same ideology, but this is happening everywhere.
  - smsm42 4y ago
    Well of course Chechen culture or Buryat culture or Tatar culture or Chukcha culture will be very different. But this is not the culture that dominates functionaries of federations in Moscow. "Imperial" Russian culture is. That's the one I am talking about. Of course on Russian territory there are many other cultures, but these are not ones I considered.
- rrdharan 4y ago
  If you consider how Chernobyl was handled it doesn’t seem that far off?
  - swarnie 4y ago
    Wrong country, wrong establishment. Apparently a lot of you dont know the difference between USSR, Russia and Ukraine. Stay safe out there.
    - smsm42 4y ago
      In fact, it's the same country and the same establishment. While Chernobyl is currently, as everybody knows, Ukrainian territory - at the time it was the territory of the USSR, and the dominating culture was Soviet - which despite being theoretically "internationalist" actually meant "Russian Imperial". People who made decisions there may have been born anywhere, but they all spoke Russian, and they all looked to Moscow for authority. And the establishment largely did not change in Russia since then - while some people went away, naturally or forcefully, and some new people came in, the new people now in Russia were largely parts of the same establishment as in the USSR - they just went up a number of rungs on the ladder when the top elites had to retire. The classic case is Putin - who is ex-KGB - but if you look at his team, you'll see most of them have roots in the old establishment or have been brought in by the people from the old establishment. In contrast to Ukraine, where old elites largely lost power (new ones are far from perfect either, but that's a topic for another day) and have been replaced, in Russia this replacement never really happened - and that may be a good key to why what is happening now is happening.
      - baybal2 4y ago
        [dead]
- hosh 4y ago
  That jives with what I heard and the English translated Russian pop literature I have read. Besides, caveat venditor is more of an American thing, with most of the world being caveat emptor. Having said all of that, I don't think robotics and AI is the kind of thing we "move fast and break things".
  - efitz 4y ago
  - DS_Store_51927 4y ago
- pc86 4y ago
  I'm sure there are plenty who aren't, but these people in the Chess Federation certainly seem to be.
- PontifexMinimus 4y ago
- smsm42 4y ago
  It's not cartoonish, it's the culture. Of course it's not homogenous - you can find a lot of people that go against the mainstream. In a hyper-macho culture you can find males who are shy and sensitive, in an introverted culture valuing privacy and closeness you can find people who are extroverted and exuberant, in a culture where accepting blame is not encouraged you can find a lot of people that will readily do that. When you describe the culture as if it were a single person, it will necessarily get a little cartoonish because we are reducing millions of people to one description. But I think this description matches the dominating culture quite well - though you of course always need to realize not everybody follows it to the same degree, and some people would eagerly defy it.
  - foverzar 4y ago
    Dude, you are just projecting your spite. This would be laughable if I didn't know you were serious. So it's actually just scary how how you make things up.
    - krasin 4y ago
      >Dude, you are just projecting your spite. This would be laughable if I didn't know you were serious. So it's actually just scary how how you make things up. I lived in Russia for the first 27 years of my life (but I've been out for 11 years). The claimed phenomena definitely existed and was widespread back then. I was an odd duck by being ready to openly accept my mistakes / misdoings, and I was not alone, but that was not common.
      - foverzar 4y ago
        I dunno, I see it everywhere, really. Owning you mistakes seems to be a rare and cherished virtue everywhere. Besides, my point is that such way of reasoning and inducting from a broken finger towards a whole culture is nothing more than spiteful supremacism.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- palmetieri2000 4y ago
  This videogame review from a YouTube channel called Warlockracy is actually also a really interesting perspective on at least some aspects of Russian subcultures and their prominence, I found it a surprisingly insightful social commentary wrapped up in an entertaining vid. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ_PiXLVaJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ_PiXLVaJ8 (~45mins) The second video is more serious but also rather interesting (clips from it became very popular at the beginning of the Russian invasion into Ukraine). It is a lecture from a Finnish University Professor whom spent most of his career in Intelligence specializing in Russian relations and now teaches intelligence and security. He talks extensively about the corruption hierarchies in Russia as well as Putin and Propaganda, well worth a watch (and more recent videos have been released since found on the same channel). 2. https://youtu.be/kF9KretXqJw https://youtu.be/kF9KretXqJw (~60mins) Operating under the assumption that the video isn't misrepresenting the cultural aspects of Russia I think we would both be surprised at how "cartoonish" things can be.
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    Video #2 should be required watching for anyone joining the conversation about the Russia - Ukraine war. Martti J. Kari (the lecturer) spent his whole career in the Finnish military studying Russia. The Russian mentality is _really_ hard to understand for a generic westerner. Russia has been lead by a conservative leader for 200-300 years. Lead by an autocratic leader (Tsar) for a good thousand years. The next Tsar will always be from the "Princes" - never a complete outsider. Trying to change that mindset is as impossible as it would be for the USA to not have a two-party system. Their whole culture and bureaucracy is based on the fact that there is an "us" and a "them". Three or four parties will never happen in the USA.
    - paganel 4y ago
      There was almost nothing “conservative” about Leninism. The same goes for Stalinism. Your comment actually just made me want to but “The Atheist Manual” (or something similar, can’t remember the exact title) that was published in 1950s USSR and which I found in a Romanian translation in an antique bookshop that I usually frequent.
- superchroma 4y ago
  Well, it is reflected in their position about Ukraine.
- rich_sasha 4y ago
  https://news.sky.com/story/russia-zorbing-accident-father-killed-in-fall-10458468 https://news.sky.com/story/russia-zorbing-accident-father-ki... I think it's true that health and safety are treated very differently there. The craziest part of the attached link is the quote "it's gone in the wrong direction again".
  - xhevahir 4y ago
    The KHL, Russia's top hockey league, is known for its cavalier treatment of injured--even dying--players:https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/paul-kariyas-brother-latest-khl-medical-treatment-outrage--nhl.htmlThe https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/paul-kariya...
- smsm42 4y ago
  As in illustration, I'll relay you an actual story that I read from one Russian blogger (who witnessed it himself and I trust him that he did): The scene is a couchette car in an overnight train between two Russian cities (a very popular mode of transport in Russia). It's late at night, so most people are preparing to sleep or sleeping already, so it is pretty quiet. Except for the two slightly drunk guys in one end of the train, who are engaged in a lively conversation. After a while one woman next to them loses her patience and shouts "you two over there, would you shut up finally? People are trying to sleep here!". To which one of the guys answers, not missing a beat, with innocent indignation in his voice: "And why did you think it's us?!" That's how this culture works.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - beebeepka 4y ago
    That's nothing. I once read an actual story on a US aggregator site. The scene is a guy whose knowledge of anything outside his country is lacking. A relatively common occurrence around where he's from. After being bombarded with all kinds of propaganda for decades he'd easily believe almost anything on the topic. Especially after several months of extreme 24/7 antagonism due to a horrible war. That's how culture works. Supposedly
    - mdp2021 4y ago
      Point contextually not clear. "Be careful of sources?" That would be as generic as Cato's "Oh, and should I remind you that we should destroy Carthage".
    - smsm42 4y ago
      I assume you mean me. But which country do you mean? I lived in several. I grew up in a culture I am describing. I still maintain contact with many people living there. I base my conclusions on my experiences and data I gathered for decades. You base your conclusions on ignorance and stereotypes - you have no other choice since you don't know me. But you try to mock me - unsuccessfully, of course, because you don't know anything - maybe you should spend a bit of time on gathering your own information instead.
- 6figurelenins 4y ago
  Allow me to suggest, in all seriousness, American government is not so different.
  - smsm42 4y ago
    All governments do it to a certain degree. But usually when American government gets caught on it, it is considered an embarrassment, and people involved may have to apologize or, in very rare cases, even suffer some consequences. In Russia, it's how it is expected to work and there's no shame in it. It is very sad to observe that American government (and American politicians, and American press, and many other institutions) are sliding to that direction lately. Not there yet, but the vector definitely points to that direction.
- dandanua 4y ago
  It's the way how wild animals live. Strong eats weak. That's it. The wilderness of Russia should be apparent to everyone nowadays.
- yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
  Have you forgotten about a program called “the news” over the past six months?
- foverzar 4y ago
  There isn't. Either they didn't read the linked article, or they are projecting their own spite - I have no other explanation of how one could interpret really like that.
gdy 4y ago
This is a fine exhibit in the museum of Russophobia.
- daliusd 4y ago
  You meant russorealism ;-)
  - gdy 4y ago
    I don't think so. We have our share of shitty people just like any other nations. Misrepresenting them as something that is innate to Russia is just hate speech or propaganda.
    - smsm42 4y ago
      Misrepresenting - sure. Accurately representing - well, I guess it still can be propaganda, but propagating the truth bears no shame. It is interesting though how the defender of Russian culture chooses to wield a Western weapon of "hate speech" accusation. In Russia, "hate speech" would be something that the government does not approve of. Including telling the literal truth - such as calling the war the war - or even saying that patriotism is not kissing the ass of the President (a person got arrested for that, though I don't think they decided to prosecute - that'd be interesting to see them attempt to prove that patriotism actually is just that!)
      - gdy 4y ago
        "It is interesting " What exactly is interesting? Hate speech is bad, unless it is directed at Russians and then it is not hate speech but 'accurate representation'? 'In Russia, "hate speech" would be something that the government does not approve of' Not really. 'The motive of political hatred' can be added to the case as an aggravating circumstance, but the charge itself is 'discreditation of Russian army' or 'spreading misinformation'. Not that it makes much difference, since the war began life's got scary in Russia in this respect. 'even saying that patriotism is not kissing the ass of the President' 'a person got arrested for that' Is this what you call 'propagating the truth'? Yuriy Shevchuk said a lot of things during his concert but he was never arrested and the court dismissed charges of administrative misconduct for the lack of substance. The prosecutor is going to try again though, but I hope for a good ending -- Shevchuk has a lot of respect in Russian society.
gambiting 4y ago
The same culture exists in Poland. Drove on a normal road and an unsecured bar of metal fell on your car from a construction site? Should have watched where you were going. The default stance is always that if something happens to you it's your own fault, should have been more careful. I'd lean towards this being a common thing either in Slavic culture or at least in ex-communist countries for some reason.
- beebeepka 4y ago
  I once had a guy scold me for having an umbrella in my hand while walking on the street in front of his business (a garage, really) because his German shepherd will attack me and it will be on me. Incidentally, his appearance was in total sync with his character. This was about a decade ago here in Bulgaria. We have plenty of troglodytes like that around here
- moffkalast 4y ago
  On the other end you have California where people will sue the state for thousands if they trip on the sidewalk, scraping their knee a bit. I suppose the USA and ex-USSR still remain polar opposites in some respects.
  - rafram 4y ago
    Citation needed on that one.
    - agumonkey 4y ago
      Not exactly the same but there's the legendary McDonald's lawsuit after some customer burned his finger after dropping his coffee.
      - jamesdelaneyie 4y ago
        You mean this case? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restau... Where a 79 year old woman suffered 3rd degree burns to her pelvic region after spilling coffee in her lap?
aaplok 4y ago
How would an accident like that be handled elsewhere, say, the US, or Western Europe? Would the federation own up to it?
- aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
  Western Europe: they would take responsibility. US: they would take responsibility after the media outrage. Japan: they would take responsibility, and the president of the federation would resign immediately.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
  It seems likely that it wouldn't happen in the first place, because people would be (rightfully, in this case) afraid of liability. If it did happen, I expect they'd either issue a long, wordy but mostly empty statement that they're looking into it, possibly with an apology not accepting blame, trying to avoid attention at all costs. Saying something means the press has something to write, so aside from maybe a first vague statement like this, they'd probably stay silent. In a clear case like this, they'd likely be torn apart afterwards though.
agumonkey 4y ago
That's what some people report from diplomatic ties with Russia. They explained the same thing about shame and power. Diplomacy and talk is weak, they only react to conflict and dominance based relationships.
allarm 4y ago
It used to be like this, in the 90s and 00s. Mainly it was a result of lower class guys getting rich after the events of 1991. It’s not like this anymore, at least not that common. Stop spreading lies, please. Saying that it’s a “culture-wide” is insulting.
trhway 4y ago
>It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". a related joke from USSR times. A foreigner from a civilized West country walking on a Moscow street falls into an open unmarked unattended trench. When people help him get out, he is furious - "How come the trench isn't fenced with say a rope with red markers?!" and gets response "Crossing the border coming into USSR you did see the red flags at the entry point, didn't you?"

by smsm42 4y ago

dang 4y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32209674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32209674.

birdyrooster 4y ago

Come on, there is no way they are that cartoonish.

markdown 4y ago
They're not. It's a massive country with many different races and cultures in it. Painting them all with one brush isn't very nice.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  This is Moscow though. I think it’s fairly likely the culture in Moscow is fairly homogenous.
  - carbadtraingood 4y ago
    Is it? Is the culture of Paris fairly homogenous? New York? London? Berlin? I would imagine the place has some shared cultural understandings, generally, but that a big city is going to be much more heterogenous. But maybe I'm thinking too micro scale.
    - smsm42 4y ago
      You need to realize though the West has embraced multiculturalism, largely. Russia has not. It does not mean there are no diverse cultures in Russia - or even Moscow, but it does mean there is one dominant culture, and closer you get to the places where power is accessible, the more dominant and more exclusive it becomes. There are various cultures found in Moscow (and any big city in Russia), but there is also the Culture. In the West, a lot of effort is taken for the old Western culture not to be the culture of Paris, New York, London, Berlin, etc. Some endorse these efforts, some decry them, but it is obvious they happen. In Russia, nothing of the sort happens, on the contrary, if you want to be in power, you will abandon whatever culture you came from and embrace the culture of power. If you do not, you'll never get to wield any power.
      - TylerLives 4y ago
        What is the "culture of power", can you give some examples? And what are your pronouns?
        smsm42 4y ago
        > What is the "culture of power", can you give some examples? I thought I did, in my comments uptopic. If you expect me to write a doctoral thesis on modern Russian culture, sorry, I am neither qualified nor it is the right place. While I have plenties of anecdotal data, and would be glad to share my experience to the extent I can, systematic treatment of a culture is not something one could do in a random comment on HN. I can name it, at best - Russian Imperial culture, and describe some of its qualities, but anything beyond that will have to wait for somebody who either has a PhD or wants to get one researching Russian culture. > And what are your pronouns? None of your business/None of your business.
        TylerLives 4y ago
        If you're talking about your first comment in this chain(about people refusing to take responsibility), I don't see how that's related to multiculturalism. I've never been to Russia, and I don't even watch Russian media often, but from what I can see, they're trying to promote multiculturalism a lot. It's not that I don't believe that Russia has a "culture of power" and that people at the top all share the same ideology, but this is happening everywhere.
- smsm42 4y ago
  Well of course Chechen culture or Buryat culture or Tatar culture or Chukcha culture will be very different. But this is not the culture that dominates functionaries of federations in Moscow. "Imperial" Russian culture is. That's the one I am talking about. Of course on Russian territory there are many other cultures, but these are not ones I considered.
rrdharan 4y ago
If you consider how Chernobyl was handled it doesn’t seem that far off?
- swarnie 4y ago
  Wrong country, wrong establishment. Apparently a lot of you dont know the difference between USSR, Russia and Ukraine. Stay safe out there.
  - smsm42 4y ago
    In fact, it's the same country and the same establishment. While Chernobyl is currently, as everybody knows, Ukrainian territory - at the time it was the territory of the USSR, and the dominating culture was Soviet - which despite being theoretically "internationalist" actually meant "Russian Imperial". People who made decisions there may have been born anywhere, but they all spoke Russian, and they all looked to Moscow for authority. And the establishment largely did not change in Russia since then - while some people went away, naturally or forcefully, and some new people came in, the new people now in Russia were largely parts of the same establishment as in the USSR - they just went up a number of rungs on the ladder when the top elites had to retire. The classic case is Putin - who is ex-KGB - but if you look at his team, you'll see most of them have roots in the old establishment or have been brought in by the people from the old establishment. In contrast to Ukraine, where old elites largely lost power (new ones are far from perfect either, but that's a topic for another day) and have been replaced, in Russia this replacement never really happened - and that may be a good key to why what is happening now is happening.
    - baybal2 4y ago
      [dead]
hosh 4y ago
That jives with what I heard and the English translated Russian pop literature I have read. Besides, caveat venditor is more of an American thing, with most of the world being caveat emptor. Having said all of that, I don't think robotics and AI is the kind of thing we "move fast and break things".
- efitz 4y ago
- DS_Store_51927 4y ago
pc86 4y ago
I'm sure there are plenty who aren't, but these people in the Chess Federation certainly seem to be.
PontifexMinimus 4y ago
smsm42 4y ago
It's not cartoonish, it's the culture. Of course it's not homogenous - you can find a lot of people that go against the mainstream. In a hyper-macho culture you can find males who are shy and sensitive, in an introverted culture valuing privacy and closeness you can find people who are extroverted and exuberant, in a culture where accepting blame is not encouraged you can find a lot of people that will readily do that. When you describe the culture as if it were a single person, it will necessarily get a little cartoonish because we are reducing millions of people to one description. But I think this description matches the dominating culture quite well - though you of course always need to realize not everybody follows it to the same degree, and some people would eagerly defy it.
- foverzar 4y ago
  Dude, you are just projecting your spite. This would be laughable if I didn't know you were serious. So it's actually just scary how how you make things up.
  - krasin 4y ago
    >Dude, you are just projecting your spite. This would be laughable if I didn't know you were serious. So it's actually just scary how how you make things up. I lived in Russia for the first 27 years of my life (but I've been out for 11 years). The claimed phenomena definitely existed and was widespread back then. I was an odd duck by being ready to openly accept my mistakes / misdoings, and I was not alone, but that was not common.
    - foverzar 4y ago
      I dunno, I see it everywhere, really. Owning you mistakes seems to be a rare and cherished virtue everywhere. Besides, my point is that such way of reasoning and inducting from a broken finger towards a whole culture is nothing more than spiteful supremacism.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
palmetieri2000 4y ago
This videogame review from a YouTube channel called Warlockracy is actually also a really interesting perspective on at least some aspects of Russian subcultures and their prominence, I found it a surprisingly insightful social commentary wrapped up in an entertaining vid. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ_PiXLVaJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ_PiXLVaJ8 (~45mins) The second video is more serious but also rather interesting (clips from it became very popular at the beginning of the Russian invasion into Ukraine). It is a lecture from a Finnish University Professor whom spent most of his career in Intelligence specializing in Russian relations and now teaches intelligence and security. He talks extensively about the corruption hierarchies in Russia as well as Putin and Propaganda, well worth a watch (and more recent videos have been released since found on the same channel). 2. https://youtu.be/kF9KretXqJw https://youtu.be/kF9KretXqJw (~60mins) Operating under the assumption that the video isn't misrepresenting the cultural aspects of Russia I think we would both be surprised at how "cartoonish" things can be.
- theshrike79 4y ago
  Video #2 should be required watching for anyone joining the conversation about the Russia - Ukraine war. Martti J. Kari (the lecturer) spent his whole career in the Finnish military studying Russia. The Russian mentality is _really_ hard to understand for a generic westerner. Russia has been lead by a conservative leader for 200-300 years. Lead by an autocratic leader (Tsar) for a good thousand years. The next Tsar will always be from the "Princes" - never a complete outsider. Trying to change that mindset is as impossible as it would be for the USA to not have a two-party system. Their whole culture and bureaucracy is based on the fact that there is an "us" and a "them". Three or four parties will never happen in the USA.
  - paganel 4y ago
    There was almost nothing “conservative” about Leninism. The same goes for Stalinism. Your comment actually just made me want to but “The Atheist Manual” (or something similar, can’t remember the exact title) that was published in 1950s USSR and which I found in a Romanian translation in an antique bookshop that I usually frequent.
superchroma 4y ago
Well, it is reflected in their position about Ukraine.
rich_sasha 4y ago
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-zorbing-accident-father-killed-in-fall-10458468 https://news.sky.com/story/russia-zorbing-accident-father-ki... I think it's true that health and safety are treated very differently there. The craziest part of the attached link is the quote "it's gone in the wrong direction again".
- xhevahir 4y ago
  The KHL, Russia's top hockey league, is known for its cavalier treatment of injured--even dying--players:https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/paul-kariyas-brother-latest-khl-medical-treatment-outrage--nhl.htmlThe https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/paul-kariya...
smsm42 4y ago
As in illustration, I'll relay you an actual story that I read from one Russian blogger (who witnessed it himself and I trust him that he did): The scene is a couchette car in an overnight train between two Russian cities (a very popular mode of transport in Russia). It's late at night, so most people are preparing to sleep or sleeping already, so it is pretty quiet. Except for the two slightly drunk guys in one end of the train, who are engaged in a lively conversation. After a while one woman next to them loses her patience and shouts "you two over there, would you shut up finally? People are trying to sleep here!". To which one of the guys answers, not missing a beat, with innocent indignation in his voice: "And why did you think it's us?!" That's how this culture works.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- beebeepka 4y ago
  That's nothing. I once read an actual story on a US aggregator site. The scene is a guy whose knowledge of anything outside his country is lacking. A relatively common occurrence around where he's from. After being bombarded with all kinds of propaganda for decades he'd easily believe almost anything on the topic. Especially after several months of extreme 24/7 antagonism due to a horrible war. That's how culture works. Supposedly
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    Point contextually not clear. "Be careful of sources?" That would be as generic as Cato's "Oh, and should I remind you that we should destroy Carthage".
  - smsm42 4y ago
    I assume you mean me. But which country do you mean? I lived in several. I grew up in a culture I am describing. I still maintain contact with many people living there. I base my conclusions on my experiences and data I gathered for decades. You base your conclusions on ignorance and stereotypes - you have no other choice since you don't know me. But you try to mock me - unsuccessfully, of course, because you don't know anything - maybe you should spend a bit of time on gathering your own information instead.
6figurelenins 4y ago
Allow me to suggest, in all seriousness, American government is not so different.
- smsm42 4y ago
  All governments do it to a certain degree. But usually when American government gets caught on it, it is considered an embarrassment, and people involved may have to apologize or, in very rare cases, even suffer some consequences. In Russia, it's how it is expected to work and there's no shame in it. It is very sad to observe that American government (and American politicians, and American press, and many other institutions) are sliding to that direction lately. Not there yet, but the vector definitely points to that direction.
dandanua 4y ago
It's the way how wild animals live. Strong eats weak. That's it. The wilderness of Russia should be apparent to everyone nowadays.
yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
Have you forgotten about a program called “the news” over the past six months?
foverzar 4y ago
There isn't. Either they didn't read the linked article, or they are projecting their own spite - I have no other explanation of how one could interpret really like that.

gdy 4y ago

This is a fine exhibit in the museum of Russophobia.

daliusd 4y ago
You meant russorealism ;-)
- gdy 4y ago
  I don't think so. We have our share of shitty people just like any other nations. Misrepresenting them as something that is innate to Russia is just hate speech or propaganda.
  - smsm42 4y ago
    Misrepresenting - sure. Accurately representing - well, I guess it still can be propaganda, but propagating the truth bears no shame. It is interesting though how the defender of Russian culture chooses to wield a Western weapon of "hate speech" accusation. In Russia, "hate speech" would be something that the government does not approve of. Including telling the literal truth - such as calling the war the war - or even saying that patriotism is not kissing the ass of the President (a person got arrested for that, though I don't think they decided to prosecute - that'd be interesting to see them attempt to prove that patriotism actually is just that!)
    - gdy 4y ago
      "It is interesting " What exactly is interesting? Hate speech is bad, unless it is directed at Russians and then it is not hate speech but 'accurate representation'? 'In Russia, "hate speech" would be something that the government does not approve of' Not really. 'The motive of political hatred' can be added to the case as an aggravating circumstance, but the charge itself is 'discreditation of Russian army' or 'spreading misinformation'. Not that it makes much difference, since the war began life's got scary in Russia in this respect. 'even saying that patriotism is not kissing the ass of the President' 'a person got arrested for that' Is this what you call 'propagating the truth'? Yuriy Shevchuk said a lot of things during his concert but he was never arrested and the court dismissed charges of administrative misconduct for the lack of substance. The prosecutor is going to try again though, but I hope for a good ending -- Shevchuk has a lot of respect in Russian society.

gambiting 4y ago

The same culture exists in Poland. Drove on a normal road and an unsecured bar of metal fell on your car from a construction site? Should have watched where you were going. The default stance is always that if something happens to you it's your own fault, should have been more careful. I'd lean towards this being a common thing either in Slavic culture or at least in ex-communist countries for some reason.

beebeepka 4y ago
I once had a guy scold me for having an umbrella in my hand while walking on the street in front of his business (a garage, really) because his German shepherd will attack me and it will be on me. Incidentally, his appearance was in total sync with his character. This was about a decade ago here in Bulgaria. We have plenty of troglodytes like that around here
moffkalast 4y ago
On the other end you have California where people will sue the state for thousands if they trip on the sidewalk, scraping their knee a bit. I suppose the USA and ex-USSR still remain polar opposites in some respects.
- rafram 4y ago
  Citation needed on that one.
  - agumonkey 4y ago
    Not exactly the same but there's the legendary McDonald's lawsuit after some customer burned his finger after dropping his coffee.
    - jamesdelaneyie 4y ago
      You mean this case? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restau... Where a 79 year old woman suffered 3rd degree burns to her pelvic region after spilling coffee in her lap?

aaplok 4y ago

How would an accident like that be handled elsewhere, say, the US, or Western Europe? Would the federation own up to it?

aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
Western Europe: they would take responsibility. US: they would take responsibility after the media outrage. Japan: they would take responsibility, and the president of the federation would resign immediately.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
It seems likely that it wouldn't happen in the first place, because people would be (rightfully, in this case) afraid of liability. If it did happen, I expect they'd either issue a long, wordy but mostly empty statement that they're looking into it, possibly with an apology not accepting blame, trying to avoid attention at all costs. Saying something means the press has something to write, so aside from maybe a first vague statement like this, they'd probably stay silent. In a clear case like this, they'd likely be torn apart afterwards though.

agumonkey 4y ago

That's what some people report from diplomatic ties with Russia. They explained the same thing about shame and power. Diplomacy and talk is weak, they only react to conflict and dominance based relationships.

allarm 4y ago

It used to be like this, in the 90s and 00s. Mainly it was a result of lower class guys getting rich after the events of 1991. It’s not like this anymore, at least not that common. Stop spreading lies, please. Saying that it’s a “culture-wide” is insulting.

trhway 4y ago

>It's Russia we're talking about. In Russia, the default mode of answering any complaint is "it's your own fault, we're not responsible, go away". a related joke from USSR times. A foreigner from a civilized West country walking on a Moscow street falls into an open unmarked unattended trench. When people help him get out, he is furious - "How come the trench isn't fenced with say a rope with red markers?!" and gets response "Crossing the border coming into USSR you did see the red flags at the entry point, didn't you?"