3 ms·

While I don't like the phrasing in the article, I think the author is right that it is hypocritical of reviewers to exclude MacBooks from comparison. Especially

While I don't like the phrasing in the article, I think the author is right that it is hypocritical of reviewers to exclude MacBooks from comparison. Especially for professional work as a dev, nothing ever comes close to the value proposition of the base MBP 14" model.

smoldesu 4y ago
> nothing ever comes close to the value proposition of the base MBP 14" model. Really? I bet you can buy a laptop for 1/10th the price that can do 90% of the same software dev tasks. The only thing the 14" does better is iOS development, which you don't have a choice of machines for anyways. I love a lot of things about the 14" Macbook Pro, but defending it's value proposition is something I can't really understand. It's a $2,000 laptop running the same OS as a $900 laptop, running the same git binary that you execute on a $35 Raspberry Pi. I don't see it.
- thr0wawayf00 4y ago
  But how does that $900 PC hold up over time compared to a Mac? In my personal experience, I get about 2-3 years out of a PC, and about 5 out of a Mac, which justifies the price tag for me.
  - arvinsim 4y ago
    That is only if you are ok sticking with the same specs on your machine for 5 years and risk using a machine outside of its warranty period. Personally, I would rather sell my machine just before the warranty runs out(about 3 years) and buy a new one.
    - thr0wawayf00 4y ago
      > risk using a machine outside of its warranty period. For a Mac, I'm pretty comfortable using the machine outside of its warranty period compared to a PC.
      - labster 4y ago
        I’m still using an original, generation 1 iPhone as a music player. Not only does it still work, but it has a better UI and the icons look different from each other. Apple stuff in my experience breaks either in the first few months, or at least 5 years out of warranty (except for the thin keyboards, but I avoided those defective designs).
        vmladenov 4y ago
        I just recycled a 2010 MacBook Pro whose only sin was that I dropped it so a significant portion of the screen was toast. Still ran decently
  - danaris 4y ago
    Hell, we've just ordered an M2 MBA to replace my wife's 2015 13" MBP—which is, for the most part, still running fine; we just want to make sure we're getting her a new one while that's still the case. Don't want to have it suddenly up and die one day. And I've got her father's 2011 Mac Mini sitting in our TV cabinet running a Plex instance (plus a few other things, like a local internal-only web server). It needs a little fan sitting on top of it to keep it cool enough, but those cost about $10.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Probably just fine. It will be supported on Linux longer than a new Mac will be supported on MacOS.
- Cyberdog 4y ago
  > It's a $2,000 laptop running the same OS as a $900 laptop, running the same git binary that you execute on a $35 Raspberry Pi. I don't see it. I suppose you're right if you do absolutely everything on the command line, but in terms of the GUI and GUI applications, there's a world of difference, and once you factor in the Apple ecosystem (so contacts and notes are automatically synched between my phone and my Macs, etc) and the speed and polish of programs like Safari and Numbers, the value proposition becomes quite different. Us Mac users could use our Mac systems as generic Unix/Linux boxes, but few of us actually do.
  - arvinsim 4y ago
    > I suppose you're right if you do absolutely everything on the command line, but in terms of the GUI and GUI applications, there's a world of difference, Visual Studio Code and Jetbrains IDE work the same in Windows/Linux as in Macs. So I don't see the advantage of Mac here.
    - Cyberdog 4y ago
      Neither of those are Mac applications. One is an Electron pile of ass and the other is a Java pile of ass. See Xcode or Nova for examples of real Mac IDEs/editors. But note that my post was not just talking about development tools. I get work done on my Macs, but I also handle finances, play games, study, write documents, and shitpost on HN. All of those things (with the exception of the "play games" part sometimes) I find more pleasant to do in the familiar environment of a Mac.
      - fartcannon 4y ago
        That's all it is. You're familiar with Mac environments. Great. End of (useful) discussion.
        moistly 4y ago
- sys_64738 4y ago
  You can sit on a rickety stool bought for three buck while programming too but you want to be comfortable. Buying a MBP is about comfort too. Long life battery, super cool and silent performance. Nothing worse than when an Intel laptop fires the jet engine fans and heats up dramatically.
- olliej 4y ago
  Yes, but that applies to pretty much every computer PC based devs use as well, there are much cheaper laptops than most of the "developer" target Dell laptops as well. Hell, I bet I can get an old 486 off eBay that could do most of the same tasks, by your rules. Doing it in less time, or without needing to have a wall socket, etc matters, and has value. Of course in terms of value proposition there's a question: that's why we're asking why it's not on the review sites being compared to other laptops. Otherwise we're stuck with "it benchmarks faster and lasts longer on battery" anecdata.
- philistine 4y ago
  Does the quality of the laptop enclosure never matter to you?
- solarkraft 4y ago
  What the hell, this is like saying a car is no better than walking. Yeah, you can theoretically do the same thing, it's just that some things suddenly become feasible if you choose one over the other.

smoldesu 4y ago

> nothing ever comes close to the value proposition of the base MBP 14" model. Really? I bet you can buy a laptop for 1/10th the price that can do 90% of the same software dev tasks. The only thing the 14" does better is iOS development, which you don't have a choice of machines for anyways. I love a lot of things about the 14" Macbook Pro, but defending it's value proposition is something I can't really understand. It's a $2,000 laptop running the same OS as a $900 laptop, running the same git binary that you execute on a $35 Raspberry Pi. I don't see it.

thr0wawayf00 4y ago
But how does that $900 PC hold up over time compared to a Mac? In my personal experience, I get about 2-3 years out of a PC, and about 5 out of a Mac, which justifies the price tag for me.
- arvinsim 4y ago
  That is only if you are ok sticking with the same specs on your machine for 5 years and risk using a machine outside of its warranty period. Personally, I would rather sell my machine just before the warranty runs out(about 3 years) and buy a new one.
  - thr0wawayf00 4y ago
    > risk using a machine outside of its warranty period. For a Mac, I'm pretty comfortable using the machine outside of its warranty period compared to a PC.
    - labster 4y ago
      I’m still using an original, generation 1 iPhone as a music player. Not only does it still work, but it has a better UI and the icons look different from each other. Apple stuff in my experience breaks either in the first few months, or at least 5 years out of warranty (except for the thin keyboards, but I avoided those defective designs).
      - vmladenov 4y ago
        I just recycled a 2010 MacBook Pro whose only sin was that I dropped it so a significant portion of the screen was toast. Still ran decently
- danaris 4y ago
  Hell, we've just ordered an M2 MBA to replace my wife's 2015 13" MBP—which is, for the most part, still running fine; we just want to make sure we're getting her a new one while that's still the case. Don't want to have it suddenly up and die one day. And I've got her father's 2011 Mac Mini sitting in our TV cabinet running a Plex instance (plus a few other things, like a local internal-only web server). It needs a little fan sitting on top of it to keep it cool enough, but those cost about $10.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Probably just fine. It will be supported on Linux longer than a new Mac will be supported on MacOS.
Cyberdog 4y ago
> It's a $2,000 laptop running the same OS as a $900 laptop, running the same git binary that you execute on a $35 Raspberry Pi. I don't see it. I suppose you're right if you do absolutely everything on the command line, but in terms of the GUI and GUI applications, there's a world of difference, and once you factor in the Apple ecosystem (so contacts and notes are automatically synched between my phone and my Macs, etc) and the speed and polish of programs like Safari and Numbers, the value proposition becomes quite different. Us Mac users could use our Mac systems as generic Unix/Linux boxes, but few of us actually do.
- arvinsim 4y ago
  > I suppose you're right if you do absolutely everything on the command line, but in terms of the GUI and GUI applications, there's a world of difference, Visual Studio Code and Jetbrains IDE work the same in Windows/Linux as in Macs. So I don't see the advantage of Mac here.
  - Cyberdog 4y ago
    Neither of those are Mac applications. One is an Electron pile of ass and the other is a Java pile of ass. See Xcode or Nova for examples of real Mac IDEs/editors. But note that my post was not just talking about development tools. I get work done on my Macs, but I also handle finances, play games, study, write documents, and shitpost on HN. All of those things (with the exception of the "play games" part sometimes) I find more pleasant to do in the familiar environment of a Mac.
    - fartcannon 4y ago
      That's all it is. You're familiar with Mac environments. Great. End of (useful) discussion.
      - moistly 4y ago
sys_64738 4y ago
You can sit on a rickety stool bought for three buck while programming too but you want to be comfortable. Buying a MBP is about comfort too. Long life battery, super cool and silent performance. Nothing worse than when an Intel laptop fires the jet engine fans and heats up dramatically.
olliej 4y ago
Yes, but that applies to pretty much every computer PC based devs use as well, there are much cheaper laptops than most of the "developer" target Dell laptops as well. Hell, I bet I can get an old 486 off eBay that could do most of the same tasks, by your rules. Doing it in less time, or without needing to have a wall socket, etc matters, and has value. Of course in terms of value proposition there's a question: that's why we're asking why it's not on the review sites being compared to other laptops. Otherwise we're stuck with "it benchmarks faster and lasts longer on battery" anecdata.
philistine 4y ago
Does the quality of the laptop enclosure never matter to you?
solarkraft 4y ago
What the hell, this is like saying a car is no better than walking. Yeah, you can theoretically do the same thing, it's just that some things suddenly become feasible if you choose one over the other.