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Unboxing a $100 Chromebook

244 points by timsneath 4y ago

pella 4y ago
in the EU 159EUR ... 250EUR ... https://geizhals.de/?fs=Chromebook++Celeron+N4020&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=eu&hloc=pl&hloc=uk&sort=p https://geizhals.de/?fs=Chromebook++Celeron+N4020&hloc=at&hl...
public_defender 4y ago
I love these cheap ARM laptops. I wish there was better support for the hardware, though. I have been using an Asus c101pa as a second laptop for so long that it's outlasted three thinkpads, but e.g. there is still no Linux support for the GPU and probably never will be.
- CameronNemo 4y ago
  This looks like an Intel Celeron based on this guy's link.
  - public_defender 4y ago
    Thanks, I missed this on the first read-through. I wonder how it compares to similar-tier ARM computers.
- rr888 4y ago
  I can't remmeber where I saw it but arm chromebooks run android apps (esp games) better than x86 as most apps are built for phones.
- ge96 4y ago
  I used to waste money buying cheap computers (new) but aside from battery, can get good buy from buying old flag ships.
- wishfish 4y ago
  The c100 / c101 Asus Flip is my favorite laptop form factor. Durable, extremely lightweight, loved the keyboard. Felt great in the hands. And inexpensive enough to make theft a non-worry. I wish Asus (or someone) would still make them.
  - ge96 4y ago
    That one was a cool design
shrubble 4y ago
https://www.microcenter.com/product/649971/evolve-iii-maestro-e-book-116-laptop-computer-dark-grey https://www.microcenter.com/product/649971/evolve-iii-maestr... On sale $59.99 ; regular price $79.99. Smallish keyboard however...
- morninglight 4y ago
  Bought a couple of these for the kids, and they love them. Not a Chromebook, but surprisingly well made and priced like a Raspberry Pi. Even has an LTE modem. Comes with Windows 10 Pro Education installed, and I haven't seen any difference from our other Win 10 installations. Of course, you could also buy it from Microsoft. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/evolve-iii-maestro-e-book-meb11wifi-116-laptop/8ptgd77thvvg?activetab=pivot:overviewtab https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/evolve-iii-maestro-e-book-...
  - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
    It's also 300% more expensive than the computer in the GP...
    - ocdtrekkie 4y ago
      The Micro Center link above has it listed for $60.
      - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
        Oh, I didn't realize they were the same computer! that's quite the price difference!
  - deergomoo 4y ago
    > Comes with Windows 10 Pro Education installed, and I haven't seen any difference from our other Win 10 installations The stuff it’s missing could actually be considered an advantage, as it’s a lot of stuff people find an annoyance in modern Windows. “Windows 10 Education builds on Windows 10 Enterprise and provides the enterprise-grade manageability and security desired by many schools. Windows 10 Education is effectively a variant of Windows 10 Enterprise that provides education-specific default settings, including the removal of Cortana*. These default settings disable tips, tricks and suggestions & Microsoft Store suggestions.” https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/windows-10-editions-for-education-customers-bf2572aa-5555-2b1e-f7ce-81e8ba890444 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/windows-10-edition...
saagarjha 4y ago
> It even has USB-C ports on BOTH sides of the device, which seems to be a Pro-level feature for Apple. Not trying to nitpick or anything but Apple used to offer USB ports on both sides of their non-Pro laptops, but in the new ones they offer Thunderbolt ports rather than USB C. My understanding is that they only offer ports on one side to let them only need to use one Thunderbolt controller. (The Pro machines with 3/4 ports have two, one on each side.)
- Mandatum 4y ago
  I’m pretty sure they did this for thermals. It’s a really common issue to resolve thermal throttling by changing your power cable from left to the right side so the power from energy draw doesn’t cause heat to dissipate internally.
  - rwalle 4y ago
    Source? Everywhere I see people talk about this issue, it points to cost saving -- what saajatjha meant
    - bribroder 4y ago
      This is the side-specific overheating issue mentioned--not sure it really speaks to the reasoning for thunderbolt vs usb-c on one or both sides but the side-specific charging issue was a real thing: https://www.cultofmac.com/705319/macbook-pro-overheats-charging-from-wrong-side/ https://www.cultofmac.com/705319/macbook-pro-overheats-charg... https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-a-simple-charging-mistake-cause-your-macbook-pro-to-overheat/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-a-simple-charging-mistake-... https://www.ibtimes.com/why-your-macbook-pro-might-be-overheating-while-charging-2966358 https://www.ibtimes.com/why-your-macbook-pro-might-be-overhe... https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/363337/how-to-find-cause-of-high-kernel-task-cpu-usage/ https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/363337/how-to-find... https://www.extremetech.com/computing/309802-charging-a-macbook-on-the-wrong-side-can-significantly-lower-its-performance https://www.extremetech.com/computing/309802-charging-a-macb...
  - 4y ago
oldjavacoder 4y ago
I recommend a $200 Lenovo. It's tough to beat the quality.
prvc 4y ago
That's nice, but Chromebooks are designed to become e-waste after a period of only a few years (updates stop after the device gets to be a few years old).
- rwalle 4y ago
  Most laptops become e-waste after a few years. Want an example? Macbooks before 2017 which no longer get any more major system updates and run as slow as turtle compared to the latest ones.
  - ericpauley 4y ago
    macOS Catalina is still receiving security updates and supports devices from 2012 and later. Not receiving new features after 5 years hardly makes a device e-waste.
  - MonkeyClub 4y ago
    Not really. I’m still using 2013 MBAs daily, and they’re pretty snappy. I do keep them on a cool, old Yosemite, though.
  - B1FF_PSUVM 4y ago
    Amazingly, I herd a couple of 2013 Asus T-100 that run Win10 OK, on 2GB RAM I think. Mostly they only stand and wait nowadays.
  - djaychela 4y ago
    I'm using a 2015 Macbook which is still totally adequate for every task I use it for, other than intense DAW stuff.
  - fercircularbuf 4y ago
    I'm still using my mid-2012 11-inch macbook air. My new M2 air is shipping this week, but my old one is still good for a lot of things.
- kstenerud 4y ago
  My C302 flip chromebook was released in 2017 and is currently downloading the 4th OS update this year (rebooting after I post this). And unlike almost every other device I've owned, it's still as snappy as the day I bought it. Plus now it also runs Android and Linux apps to boot. I use it mainly for golang and python development in VS code.
jasoneckert 4y ago
While I have no use case for a Celeron-based Chromebook myself, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this tweet thread as it progresses beautifully while examining the cost-feature angle via multiple humorous analogies. In other words, it's a beautifully designed tweet thread that keeps the reader entertained.
- imperialdrive 4y ago
  It was a great read, I agree. It reminds me of using unboxing mine for first time and being equally blown away. Amazing machines. They were backordered for almost a YEAR due to schools/business/everyone sucking them up as fast as they could. Glad to hear they are readily available again.
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rektide 4y ago
it's like 800x what an ARM SBC gets you. fuck ARM, mass incompetency. (new Qualcomm Wear 5: a 10 year old Cortex A53... get out. how is an ancient design the "low power" go-to?) i'm so glad x86 has a basic self respecting low-end that does ok. i have a Chuwi Lapbook 12.3 that- 5 years ago- was a similar-ish kit for <$250 (but a 2k screen). everything worked out of box in Debian. it's just absurd what a dumb stupid awful terrible just-emerging rk3588 costs (much worse A76 cores+puny cores), by compare, to these much much much better x86 systems, that have keyboards, storage, displays to boot. risc-v is no better. i detest the lack of real competition. how has this marketplace rotted & ossified in place so, been so noncompetitive for so long? there's just no one to keep a reasonable low end other than Intel. i love love love & wanted wanted wanted to get some AMD 1-liter mini-pcs, but they just never became available, and prices spiraled up and up and up. there's still no competition for a reasonable computer compared to what Intel offers us. this world is in huge denial.
- deleted 4y ago
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yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> Like, real Linux, not some weird virtualized or translated environment. Ah, no. It is very much specifically in a container inside a VM. Now, full credit where it's due: You're unlikely to notice. Performance is good, they've done work integrating it (filesystem integration, forwarding windows to the host display servers through Sommelier). But native it is not. (Details: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/containers_and_vms.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/con...) EDIT: I guess I should mention; this does come up occasionally in ways that can actually matter. IIRC I got bit by the (default?) container setup not allowing you to ptrace, you can't mount filesystems or loop devices (https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/containers_and_vms.md#fs-mount https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/con...), and you can't touch the kernel or hardware (https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/containers_and_vms.md#Missing-Features https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/con... and https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/containers_and_vms.md#Can-I-install-custom-kernel-modules https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/con... ).
- public_defender 4y ago
  This is correct, but also a lot of these machines can native boot Linux if you enable developer mode. It's not the most frictionless experience in the world, but it can work pretty well.
  - deleted 4y ago
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  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    Oh sure; x86 Chromebooks that support https://mrchromebox.tech https://mrchromebox.tech firmware upgrades are actually some of the nicest Linux laptops on the market once they've been unlocked and flashed. I just want to call out that the author is precisely backwards and Crostini is a VM and a container and not bare Linux on hardware. Edit: There's also Crouton, for an intermediate option that does need developer mode.
least 4y ago
This reads like an advertisement and the constant comparisons with Apple products is weird. I can only assume the comparisons are being made because he or the people around him use very expensive Macbooks, but It doesn't help that this thread was written by the submitter and that he happens to be an engineer at Google talking about how great this cheap Chromebook is. Looking past that, It's good for developers to have some low end hardware to test their software on and I think that every web developer should be required to test their applications on hardware comparable to this, if not even less powerful.
- deleted 4y ago
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- pvg 4y ago
  Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    Pretty sure that's for HN comments, not submissions?
    - pvg 4y ago
      The author is the submitter, as the comment itself says.
- mhoad 4y ago
  I read this the Mac comparisons as “compared to what I normally use as my daily driver at work which is a very high end MBP with a very different price point” which is far more innocent
WrtCdEvrydy 4y ago
So what's really funny is that I've done a lot of stuff with older hardware like this. I use caprover on a cloud provider and then add extra nodes at home with cheap laptops that I've collected over the years.
jollybean 4y ago
'For Less Than a Tank of Gas'. That's something to think about right there.
Wowfunhappy 4y ago
How are the keyboard and trackpad? IMO, bad trackpads are the biggest pitfall of cheap (and not-so-cheap) laptops, by far. At least with a bad screen you can still generally read the interface without too much trouble, but a bad trackpad can make a computer really frustrating to use!
- stkdump 4y ago
  Wouldn't be a huge problem for me. If I am merely operating a device, then the touchscreen is good enough. For serious work, I use external peripherals anyway.
  - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
    I don't think this computer has a touchscreen?
    - stkdump 4y ago
      Right. I think most Chromebooks do, but this one seems to be the exception.
      - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
        I teach programming classes in elementary schools around NYC, so I have a lot of experience with very low-end Chromebooks, and most of them don't have touchscreens. With the exception of one particular school, these computers are all perfectly adequate performance-wise, but the awful touchpads just ruin everything.
- agraddy 4y ago
  My experience is that the touchpad on Chromebooks is high quality and really nice (I prefer it to a lot of other touchpads I've worked with). I can also boot fully into Linux (slightly different than what is described in the tweets), however when using Linux, the touchpad becomes terrible. I'm guessing if I spent time figuring out the proper drivers I could probably get it working nice on Linux too but it just hasn't been worth the effort for me. I really like the keyboard too, but I think that is probably more individual taste.
deleted 4y ago
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adrianmonk 4y ago
Hah, I bought this exact Chromebook (from the same store, too -- maybe a Best Buy exclusive model?) too. I got an even better deal on it. Over the July 4th weekend, it was on sale for $79. Overall, it works pretty well considering the cost. Keyboard is OK, build quality is OK, Wi-Fi works fine, USB C charging works fine (its bundled charger can rapid charge my phone, my phone's charger can charge the Chromebook), and performance is very livable for basic web browsing and watching TV shows. The only thing that does suck is the display. If you stay within a few degrees of the ideal viewing angle, it's decent enough, but get even a little too far off axis and it looks really bad.
thelastgallon 4y ago
Now we can do One Laptop Per Child. [1] [1] The project originally aimed for a price of 100 US dollars. In May 2006, Negroponte told the Red Hat's annual user summit: "It is a floating price. We are a nonprofit organization. We have a target of $100 by 2008, but probably it will be $135, maybe $140."[32] A BBC news article in April 2010 indicated the price still remained above $200: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Laptop_per_Child https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Laptop_per_Child
- deleted 4y ago
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- robgibbons 4y ago
  As it happens, there's one on eBay right now for $99.
- ge96 4y ago
  Was reading a book on this "The Charisma Machine" about the precocious child heh. Ideals vs. reality.
fswd 4y ago
What's the power consumption of a device like this? Can you flash Ubuntu on it? What about Pop OS!?
- djaychela 4y ago
  Typically, you can install linux if you can get a new firmware - this depends on the device in question [1]. I've done this on a couple of ChromeOS devices in the past and installed GalliumOS [2]. You may be able to install other OSes, but I found GalliumOS worked well on the C720p I installed it on, and actually used it for about a year on one where I'd upgraded the storage to something larger. You can't get away from it being a slightly cheap machine, but it's great to have something which you're not going to mind if it gets lost or broken. [1] - https://mrchromebox.tech/#devices https://mrchromebox.tech/#devices [2] - https://galliumos.org/ https://galliumos.org/
dannyw 4y ago
Cannot find anything less than $300 AUD in Australia (equivalent $180 USD). Any recommendations for how I can find a bargain?
schwartzworld 4y ago
I learned to code on a machine like this. It was a $200 Chromebook (9 years ago!) But I was able to install Linux, first with Crouton, later GalliumOS and learn Ruby and JS on it just fine.
agraddy 4y ago
I do all my work on an under $200 Chromebook. I have a VPS where I do all the actual work. I use Mosh and TMUX for connecting and saving my different projects (I'm a freelance developer who is often juggling multiple clients). Basically, the Chromebook is just an SSH client and a web browser (I can also boot into Linux if needed - slightly different than described in the Tweets). I've been doing this for years. The battery life is great and it is also nice knowing that I never have to worry about losing my device since all of my actual work is on a server I can login to using just about any other device including my phone. Most people are shocked when they see my "work station." I read about people using TMUX and a VPS as a development environment here on HN a long time ago and have never regretted the move.
- Theodores 4y ago
  Kudos for that. There must be some feeling of accomplishment turning in work done on a toy computer, designed for eight year old kids and with no discernible CPU. I have slipped into working almost exclusively on a Chromebook for a pet project that is going rather well. I have this realisation that I have actually completed something without getting off the sofa. The 'dim' screen is not a problem, the keyboard is actually a complete joy compared to my posh computer. I did put an IDE (phpStorm) on it (paid for) but ended up getting so much done just in terminal windows. It has enough '.ssh/' to make it great for that. Maybe like 'intel inside' there needs to be a 'Built on a Chromebook' quality standard out there.
  - prox 4y ago
    I have been using an iPad as a remote workstation. Powerful enough, some great apps and a small package to carry around.
    - farmin 4y ago
      What apps do you use on ipad for development?
      - davidbanham 4y ago
pleb_nz 4y ago
I wonder what landfill alot of these things will end up on in a few years. Be good to see more framework style stuff with a focus on long term usage.
- ocdtrekkie 4y ago
  Google doesn't want you to think about the longevity of the cheaply manufactured laptops they have OEMs peddle which have very hard expiration dates to receiving browser updates. Embrace the cheapness! /s
  - refulgentis 4y ago
    It's 8 years and the browser is being separated from the OS
- wmf 4y ago
  I suspect Chromebooks will last longer than el cheapo Windows PCs. When a "disposable" $100 computer lasts six years... a $1,000 computer won't last 60 years. You'd have to show that e-waste has an incredibly high cost to justify that thinking.
- throwaway2056 4y ago
  Everything is dependent on the user. It has updates until June 2027. Assuming the author keeps it will last 5 years. Sure there some thinkpad stalewarts or desktop (using 500W power) that are running from decades. But these devices have puny chargers, less electricity - just works. May be less local power is OK.
chmod775 4y ago
That thing is like 70% of the performance of my 2014 Thinkpad which cost ~20x as much in today's money. The only metrics where it does really badly is the small amount of RAM and storage.
hogu 4y ago
Can anyone comment on external displays? The last time I tried this was about 5 years ago. I had a Samsung chromebook which was a great little device, but the font rendering connected to an external display was too terrible.
- throwaway2056 4y ago
  All devices these days are very clear. Sure you cannot hookup 3 X 4K screens. But 1 X 4K should suffice.
paulpauper 4y ago
'm not going to lie -- this screen really is quite hard on the eyes. It's a step down if your normal laptop costs 25X AS MUCH what does he mean. is is blurry or too bright? Yes, computers get way cheaper when you exclude windows and name brand parts.
- TMWNN 4y ago
  He means too blurry. Any Chromebook under $200 will have a 1366x768 resolution display.
  - epakai 4y ago
    I bought the Lenovo 10e tablet for $100 ($90+case) and it has 1920x1200 display. Trade offs: 10.1 inch display, mediatek cpu, tablet (no stand/keyboard). Not the normal price (seeing $334 now), but that was direct from Lenovo.
edent 4y ago
I guess the real question is - why is Flutter so resource heavy and slow? We live in an age of algorithmic optimisation. Surely it should be unremarkable that a cheap computer can run modern services?
- mhoad 4y ago
  Not sure you actually read the thread or not but the point was that Flutter actually ended up working great on a $100 machine even when it was compiled to JavaScript and run inside a browser.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  That $100 machine is more powerful than some CAD workstations we had fifteen years ago. A Celeron N4020 is hardly a powerhouse by modern standards, but it'll beat a 15 year old Xeon with the same core count hands down and doesn't even need a fan. It's terrible how we have such low expectations of hardware just because it's cheap. Cheap hardware has become incredibly powerful but its owners are forced to struggle with laggy, bloated applications because "well, it's cheap, what did you expect".
- wildrhythms 4y ago
  That Flutter app looks like it's running better than probably 95% of popular SPA webapps I experience on a daily basis... I know the bar isn't very high
- Klaster_1 4y ago
  The charts demo stutters on my gaming PC in Firefox...
modeless 4y ago
I wish there was a cheapish Chromebook with a 120 Hz display. I'd use it mostly as a dumb terminal but I really don't want to buy 60 Hz screens anymore.
ramchip 4y ago
> This thing is powered by a processor named after a salad vegetable I'm guessing that's a joke because Celeron sounds like celery?
- jwilk 4y ago
  It's actually named after Latin celer, "fast, swift, quick": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/celer#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/celer#Latin
- shalmanese 4y ago
  People who put celery in salads are psychopaths.
throwaway4good 4y ago
How does the economics of a machine like this work? Does Google pay the producer (Lenovo)? Is possible to install an alternative OS?
jokoon 4y ago
Curious how much it cost to build for Lenovo, because since it gets user data, that's how it's being "financed".
rvdginste 4y ago
With these kinds of really cheap devices, it always makes me wonder whether you are not better off buying older used hardware instead... especially if you are looking for a cheap linux laptop. For example, some time ago I got a Thinkpad X200 tablet in good condition off ebay for that price. I was mainly interested in the tablet functionality, but it's a nice little laptop that is still usable today. Even if you are specifically interested in Chrome OS, Chrome OS Flex might be an option on used hardware.
- deleted 4y ago
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- haunter 4y ago
  Agreed. I got an i5 Thinkpad x230 from eBay for similar price (~$120) and arguably it's much better in every aspect (probably not in thinness and weight)
  - justinhj 4y ago
    I bought a damaged x230 to restore and play around with. I now use it for all my side projects and outside of work. It’s a really nice size and I love the keyboard.
    - haunter 4y ago
      Love mine too, it's a great notebook. Recently started hunting for a palm rest part with the built-in fingerprint reader, for whatever reason just love that more than using a USB key.
- jt2190 4y ago
  Here’s a list of ChromeOS Flex supported devices https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11513094 https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11513094
coldblues 4y ago
Sorry to bring this out of the blue, but I can't resist. The developer in these tweets is surprised that this Chromebook can run Flutter applications. This just shows how bloated and slow software development has become. Why wouldn't a low-powered device such as this run an application without a problem? I guess when you're developing and testing on thousand dollar computers, you don't really consider all the millions (likely billions) of people running low-end computers such as these.
- mhoad 4y ago
  I’m not sure what you think he was doing with that machine to begin with but he basically runs the Flutter project and was testing it with a low end device precisely because that is important to him to know how it performs for users on low end hardware. Kind of the exact opposite of what you are saying.
  - coldblues 4y ago
    Yes, the fact that he's testing using that device is a good thing. But having software run fast on low-end computers shouldn't be a surprise, and I was just addressing how much we've lowered our standards for optimized software; unrelated to what he's doing. But I guess the way I wrote that, I was putting a lot of blame unto him.
- onli 4y ago
  Flutter btw is quite good for that, at least the app side of things (author was focused on web). I test our flutter app regularly with an old underpowered phone and it always worked well, with performance only getting better with newer versions - probably the project's work against shader stutters helps old devices as well.
Havoc 4y ago
>A few minor stutters I consistently get a single stutter around the March 2016 mark when doing a page reload even on pretty powerful hardware. ...but I see not when scrolling the timeline back, suggesting some sort of caching issue perhaps
johnsheen 4y ago
Yall are trying to make me feel bad who just bought Apple MBP 15 inch, i7, 16GB RAM, 256 SSD to learn HTML and CSS.
mark_l_watson 4y ago
I read that thread on Twitter earlier today. Great stuff. I bought a Lenovo Duet 2 last year - similar comments: except for my phone, the Duet could replace all of my devices, at a drastically low cost. Except, while it does everything, the CPU and memory are weak. If I were poor, it could easily be my only device and do everything I need. But, I am not poor and have 2 Mac laptops, 2 iPad Pros, and a really nice System76 Linux laptop. Still, the Duet is amazing for the money. Chromebooks are great generally for security and low effort admin, and the Linux containers handy - but, in using Google products it is really important to carefully set privacy and data sharing options.

244 points by timsneath 4y ago

in the EU 159EUR ... 250EUR ... https://geizhals.de/?fs=Chromebook++Celeron+N4020&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=eu&hloc=pl&hloc=uk&sort=p https://geizhals.de/?fs=Chromebook++Celeron+N4020&hloc=at&hl...

public_defender 4y ago

I love these cheap ARM laptops. I wish there was better support for the hardware, though. I have been using an Asus c101pa as a second laptop for so long that it's outlasted three thinkpads, but e.g. there is still no Linux support for the GPU and probably never will be.

CameronNemo 4y ago
This looks like an Intel Celeron based on this guy's link.
- public_defender 4y ago
  Thanks, I missed this on the first read-through. I wonder how it compares to similar-tier ARM computers.
rr888 4y ago
I can't remmeber where I saw it but arm chromebooks run android apps (esp games) better than x86 as most apps are built for phones.
ge96 4y ago
I used to waste money buying cheap computers (new) but aside from battery, can get good buy from buying old flag ships.
wishfish 4y ago
The c100 / c101 Asus Flip is my favorite laptop form factor. Durable, extremely lightweight, loved the keyboard. Felt great in the hands. And inexpensive enough to make theft a non-worry. I wish Asus (or someone) would still make them.
- ge96 4y ago
  That one was a cool design

shrubble 4y ago

https://www.microcenter.com/product/649971/evolve-iii-maestro-e-book-116-laptop-computer-dark-grey https://www.microcenter.com/product/649971/evolve-iii-maestr... On sale $59.99 ; regular price $79.99. Smallish keyboard however...

morninglight 4y ago
Bought a couple of these for the kids, and they love them. Not a Chromebook, but surprisingly well made and priced like a Raspberry Pi. Even has an LTE modem. Comes with Windows 10 Pro Education installed, and I haven't seen any difference from our other Win 10 installations. Of course, you could also buy it from Microsoft. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/evolve-iii-maestro-e-book-meb11wifi-116-laptop/8ptgd77thvvg?activetab=pivot:overviewtab https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/evolve-iii-maestro-e-book-...
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  It's also 300% more expensive than the computer in the GP...
  - ocdtrekkie 4y ago
    The Micro Center link above has it listed for $60.
    - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
      Oh, I didn't realize they were the same computer! that's quite the price difference!
- deergomoo 4y ago
  > Comes with Windows 10 Pro Education installed, and I haven't seen any difference from our other Win 10 installations The stuff it’s missing could actually be considered an advantage, as it’s a lot of stuff people find an annoyance in modern Windows. “Windows 10 Education builds on Windows 10 Enterprise and provides the enterprise-grade manageability and security desired by many schools. Windows 10 Education is effectively a variant of Windows 10 Enterprise that provides education-specific default settings, including the removal of Cortana*. These default settings disable tips, tricks and suggestions & Microsoft Store suggestions.” https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/windows-10-editions-for-education-customers-bf2572aa-5555-2b1e-f7ce-81e8ba890444 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/windows-10-edition...

saagarjha 4y ago

> It even has USB-C ports on BOTH sides of the device, which seems to be a Pro-level feature for Apple. Not trying to nitpick or anything but Apple used to offer USB ports on both sides of their non-Pro laptops, but in the new ones they offer Thunderbolt ports rather than USB C. My understanding is that they only offer ports on one side to let them only need to use one Thunderbolt controller. (The Pro machines with 3/4 ports have two, one on each side.)

Mandatum 4y ago
I’m pretty sure they did this for thermals. It’s a really common issue to resolve thermal throttling by changing your power cable from left to the right side so the power from energy draw doesn’t cause heat to dissipate internally.
- rwalle 4y ago
  Source? Everywhere I see people talk about this issue, it points to cost saving -- what saajatjha meant
  - bribroder 4y ago
    This is the side-specific overheating issue mentioned--not sure it really speaks to the reasoning for thunderbolt vs usb-c on one or both sides but the side-specific charging issue was a real thing: https://www.cultofmac.com/705319/macbook-pro-overheats-charging-from-wrong-side/ https://www.cultofmac.com/705319/macbook-pro-overheats-charg... https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-a-simple-charging-mistake-cause-your-macbook-pro-to-overheat/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-a-simple-charging-mistake-... https://www.ibtimes.com/why-your-macbook-pro-might-be-overheating-while-charging-2966358 https://www.ibtimes.com/why-your-macbook-pro-might-be-overhe... https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/363337/how-to-find-cause-of-high-kernel-task-cpu-usage/ https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/363337/how-to-find... https://www.extremetech.com/computing/309802-charging-a-macbook-on-the-wrong-side-can-significantly-lower-its-performance https://www.extremetech.com/computing/309802-charging-a-macb...
- 4y ago

oldjavacoder 4y ago

I recommend a $200 Lenovo. It's tough to beat the quality.

prvc 4y ago

That's nice, but Chromebooks are designed to become e-waste after a period of only a few years (updates stop after the device gets to be a few years old).

rwalle 4y ago
Most laptops become e-waste after a few years. Want an example? Macbooks before 2017 which no longer get any more major system updates and run as slow as turtle compared to the latest ones.
- ericpauley 4y ago
  macOS Catalina is still receiving security updates and supports devices from 2012 and later. Not receiving new features after 5 years hardly makes a device e-waste.
- MonkeyClub 4y ago
  Not really. I’m still using 2013 MBAs daily, and they’re pretty snappy. I do keep them on a cool, old Yosemite, though.
- B1FF_PSUVM 4y ago
  Amazingly, I herd a couple of 2013 Asus T-100 that run Win10 OK, on 2GB RAM I think. Mostly they only stand and wait nowadays.
- djaychela 4y ago
  I'm using a 2015 Macbook which is still totally adequate for every task I use it for, other than intense DAW stuff.
- fercircularbuf 4y ago
  I'm still using my mid-2012 11-inch macbook air. My new M2 air is shipping this week, but my old one is still good for a lot of things.
kstenerud 4y ago
My C302 flip chromebook was released in 2017 and is currently downloading the 4th OS update this year (rebooting after I post this). And unlike almost every other device I've owned, it's still as snappy as the day I bought it. Plus now it also runs Android and Linux apps to boot. I use it mainly for golang and python development in VS code.

jasoneckert 4y ago

While I have no use case for a Celeron-based Chromebook myself, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this tweet thread as it progresses beautifully while examining the cost-feature angle via multiple humorous analogies. In other words, it's a beautifully designed tweet thread that keeps the reader entertained.

imperialdrive 4y ago
It was a great read, I agree. It reminds me of using unboxing mine for first time and being equally blown away. Amazing machines. They were backordered for almost a YEAR due to schools/business/everyone sucking them up as fast as they could. Glad to hear they are readily available again.

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rektide 4y ago

it's like 800x what an ARM SBC gets you. fuck ARM, mass incompetency. (new Qualcomm Wear 5: a 10 year old Cortex A53... get out. how is an ancient design the "low power" go-to?) i'm so glad x86 has a basic self respecting low-end that does ok. i have a Chuwi Lapbook 12.3 that- 5 years ago- was a similar-ish kit for <$250 (but a 2k screen). everything worked out of box in Debian. it's just absurd what a dumb stupid awful terrible just-emerging rk3588 costs (much worse A76 cores+puny cores), by compare, to these much much much better x86 systems, that have keyboards, storage, displays to boot. risc-v is no better. i detest the lack of real competition. how has this marketplace rotted & ossified in place so, been so noncompetitive for so long? there's just no one to keep a reasonable low end other than Intel. i love love love & wanted wanted wanted to get some AMD 1-liter mini-pcs, but they just never became available, and prices spiraled up and up and up. there's still no competition for a reasonable computer compared to what Intel offers us. this world is in huge denial.

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yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

> Like, real Linux, not some weird virtualized or translated environment. Ah, no. It is very much specifically in a container inside a VM. Now, full credit where it's due: You're unlikely to notice. Performance is good, they've done work integrating it (filesystem integration, forwarding windows to the host display servers through Sommelier). But native it is not. (Details: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/containers_and_vms.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/con...) EDIT: I guess I should mention; this does come up occasionally in ways that can actually matter. IIRC I got bit by the (default?) container setup not allowing you to ptrace, you can't mount filesystems or loop devices (https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/containers_and_vms.md#fs-mount https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/con...), and you can't touch the kernel or hardware (https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/containers_and_vms.md#Missing-Features https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/con... and https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/containers_and_vms.md#Can-I-install-custom-kernel-modules https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/con... ).

public_defender 4y ago
This is correct, but also a lot of these machines can native boot Linux if you enable developer mode. It's not the most frictionless experience in the world, but it can work pretty well.
- deleted 4y ago
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- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  Oh sure; x86 Chromebooks that support https://mrchromebox.tech https://mrchromebox.tech firmware upgrades are actually some of the nicest Linux laptops on the market once they've been unlocked and flashed. I just want to call out that the author is precisely backwards and Crostini is a VM and a container and not bare Linux on hardware. Edit: There's also Crouton, for an intermediate option that does need developer mode.

least 4y ago

This reads like an advertisement and the constant comparisons with Apple products is weird. I can only assume the comparisons are being made because he or the people around him use very expensive Macbooks, but It doesn't help that this thread was written by the submitter and that he happens to be an engineer at Google talking about how great this cheap Chromebook is. Looking past that, It's good for developers to have some low end hardware to test their software on and I think that every web developer should be required to test their applications on hardware comparable to this, if not even less powerful.

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pvg 4y ago
Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  Pretty sure that's for HN comments, not submissions?
  - pvg 4y ago
    The author is the submitter, as the comment itself says.
mhoad 4y ago
I read this the Mac comparisons as “compared to what I normally use as my daily driver at work which is a very high end MBP with a very different price point” which is far more innocent

WrtCdEvrydy 4y ago

So what's really funny is that I've done a lot of stuff with older hardware like this. I use caprover on a cloud provider and then add extra nodes at home with cheap laptops that I've collected over the years.

jollybean 4y ago

'For Less Than a Tank of Gas'. That's something to think about right there.

Wowfunhappy 4y ago

How are the keyboard and trackpad? IMO, bad trackpads are the biggest pitfall of cheap (and not-so-cheap) laptops, by far. At least with a bad screen you can still generally read the interface without too much trouble, but a bad trackpad can make a computer really frustrating to use!

stkdump 4y ago
Wouldn't be a huge problem for me. If I am merely operating a device, then the touchscreen is good enough. For serious work, I use external peripherals anyway.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  I don't think this computer has a touchscreen?
  - stkdump 4y ago
    Right. I think most Chromebooks do, but this one seems to be the exception.
    - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
      I teach programming classes in elementary schools around NYC, so I have a lot of experience with very low-end Chromebooks, and most of them don't have touchscreens. With the exception of one particular school, these computers are all perfectly adequate performance-wise, but the awful touchpads just ruin everything.
agraddy 4y ago
My experience is that the touchpad on Chromebooks is high quality and really nice (I prefer it to a lot of other touchpads I've worked with). I can also boot fully into Linux (slightly different than what is described in the tweets), however when using Linux, the touchpad becomes terrible. I'm guessing if I spent time figuring out the proper drivers I could probably get it working nice on Linux too but it just hasn't been worth the effort for me. I really like the keyboard too, but I think that is probably more individual taste.

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adrianmonk 4y ago

Hah, I bought this exact Chromebook (from the same store, too -- maybe a Best Buy exclusive model?) too. I got an even better deal on it. Over the July 4th weekend, it was on sale for $79. Overall, it works pretty well considering the cost. Keyboard is OK, build quality is OK, Wi-Fi works fine, USB C charging works fine (its bundled charger can rapid charge my phone, my phone's charger can charge the Chromebook), and performance is very livable for basic web browsing and watching TV shows. The only thing that does suck is the display. If you stay within a few degrees of the ideal viewing angle, it's decent enough, but get even a little too far off axis and it looks really bad.

thelastgallon 4y ago

Now we can do One Laptop Per Child. [1] [1] The project originally aimed for a price of 100 US dollars. In May 2006, Negroponte told the Red Hat's annual user summit: "It is a floating price. We are a nonprofit organization. We have a target of $100 by 2008, but probably it will be $135, maybe $140."[32] A BBC news article in April 2010 indicated the price still remained above $200: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Laptop_per_Child https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Laptop_per_Child

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robgibbons 4y ago
As it happens, there's one on eBay right now for $99.
ge96 4y ago
Was reading a book on this "The Charisma Machine" about the precocious child heh. Ideals vs. reality.

fswd 4y ago

What's the power consumption of a device like this? Can you flash Ubuntu on it? What about Pop OS!?

djaychela 4y ago
Typically, you can install linux if you can get a new firmware - this depends on the device in question [1]. I've done this on a couple of ChromeOS devices in the past and installed GalliumOS [2]. You may be able to install other OSes, but I found GalliumOS worked well on the C720p I installed it on, and actually used it for about a year on one where I'd upgraded the storage to something larger. You can't get away from it being a slightly cheap machine, but it's great to have something which you're not going to mind if it gets lost or broken. [1] - https://mrchromebox.tech/#devices https://mrchromebox.tech/#devices [2] - https://galliumos.org/ https://galliumos.org/

dannyw 4y ago

Cannot find anything less than $300 AUD in Australia (equivalent $180 USD). Any recommendations for how I can find a bargain?

schwartzworld 4y ago

I learned to code on a machine like this. It was a $200 Chromebook (9 years ago!) But I was able to install Linux, first with Crouton, later GalliumOS and learn Ruby and JS on it just fine.

agraddy 4y ago

I do all my work on an under $200 Chromebook. I have a VPS where I do all the actual work. I use Mosh and TMUX for connecting and saving my different projects (I'm a freelance developer who is often juggling multiple clients). Basically, the Chromebook is just an SSH client and a web browser (I can also boot into Linux if needed - slightly different than described in the Tweets). I've been doing this for years. The battery life is great and it is also nice knowing that I never have to worry about losing my device since all of my actual work is on a server I can login to using just about any other device including my phone. Most people are shocked when they see my "work station." I read about people using TMUX and a VPS as a development environment here on HN a long time ago and have never regretted the move.

Theodores 4y ago
Kudos for that. There must be some feeling of accomplishment turning in work done on a toy computer, designed for eight year old kids and with no discernible CPU. I have slipped into working almost exclusively on a Chromebook for a pet project that is going rather well. I have this realisation that I have actually completed something without getting off the sofa. The 'dim' screen is not a problem, the keyboard is actually a complete joy compared to my posh computer. I did put an IDE (phpStorm) on it (paid for) but ended up getting so much done just in terminal windows. It has enough '.ssh/' to make it great for that. Maybe like 'intel inside' there needs to be a 'Built on a Chromebook' quality standard out there.
- prox 4y ago
  I have been using an iPad as a remote workstation. Powerful enough, some great apps and a small package to carry around.
  - farmin 4y ago
    What apps do you use on ipad for development?
    - davidbanham 4y ago

pleb_nz 4y ago

I wonder what landfill alot of these things will end up on in a few years. Be good to see more framework style stuff with a focus on long term usage.

ocdtrekkie 4y ago
Google doesn't want you to think about the longevity of the cheaply manufactured laptops they have OEMs peddle which have very hard expiration dates to receiving browser updates. Embrace the cheapness! /s
- refulgentis 4y ago
  It's 8 years and the browser is being separated from the OS
wmf 4y ago
I suspect Chromebooks will last longer than el cheapo Windows PCs. When a "disposable" $100 computer lasts six years... a $1,000 computer won't last 60 years. You'd have to show that e-waste has an incredibly high cost to justify that thinking.
throwaway2056 4y ago
Everything is dependent on the user. It has updates until June 2027. Assuming the author keeps it will last 5 years. Sure there some thinkpad stalewarts or desktop (using 500W power) that are running from decades. But these devices have puny chargers, less electricity - just works. May be less local power is OK.

chmod775 4y ago

That thing is like 70% of the performance of my 2014 Thinkpad which cost ~20x as much in today's money. The only metrics where it does really badly is the small amount of RAM and storage.

hogu 4y ago

Can anyone comment on external displays? The last time I tried this was about 5 years ago. I had a Samsung chromebook which was a great little device, but the font rendering connected to an external display was too terrible.

throwaway2056 4y ago
All devices these days are very clear. Sure you cannot hookup 3 X 4K screens. But 1 X 4K should suffice.

paulpauper 4y ago

'm not going to lie -- this screen really is quite hard on the eyes. It's a step down if your normal laptop costs 25X AS MUCH what does he mean. is is blurry or too bright? Yes, computers get way cheaper when you exclude windows and name brand parts.

TMWNN 4y ago
He means too blurry. Any Chromebook under $200 will have a 1366x768 resolution display.
- epakai 4y ago
  I bought the Lenovo 10e tablet for $100 ($90+case) and it has 1920x1200 display. Trade offs: 10.1 inch display, mediatek cpu, tablet (no stand/keyboard). Not the normal price (seeing $334 now), but that was direct from Lenovo.

edent 4y ago

I guess the real question is - why is Flutter so resource heavy and slow? We live in an age of algorithmic optimisation. Surely it should be unremarkable that a cheap computer can run modern services?

mhoad 4y ago
Not sure you actually read the thread or not but the point was that Flutter actually ended up working great on a $100 machine even when it was compiled to JavaScript and run inside a browser.
jeroenhd 4y ago
That $100 machine is more powerful than some CAD workstations we had fifteen years ago. A Celeron N4020 is hardly a powerhouse by modern standards, but it'll beat a 15 year old Xeon with the same core count hands down and doesn't even need a fan. It's terrible how we have such low expectations of hardware just because it's cheap. Cheap hardware has become incredibly powerful but its owners are forced to struggle with laggy, bloated applications because "well, it's cheap, what did you expect".
wildrhythms 4y ago
That Flutter app looks like it's running better than probably 95% of popular SPA webapps I experience on a daily basis... I know the bar isn't very high
Klaster_1 4y ago
The charts demo stutters on my gaming PC in Firefox...

modeless 4y ago

I wish there was a cheapish Chromebook with a 120 Hz display. I'd use it mostly as a dumb terminal but I really don't want to buy 60 Hz screens anymore.

ramchip 4y ago

> This thing is powered by a processor named after a salad vegetable I'm guessing that's a joke because Celeron sounds like celery?

jwilk 4y ago
It's actually named after Latin celer, "fast, swift, quick": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/celer#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/celer#Latin
shalmanese 4y ago
People who put celery in salads are psychopaths.

throwaway4good 4y ago

How does the economics of a machine like this work? Does Google pay the producer (Lenovo)? Is possible to install an alternative OS?

jokoon 4y ago

Curious how much it cost to build for Lenovo, because since it gets user data, that's how it's being "financed".

rvdginste 4y ago

With these kinds of really cheap devices, it always makes me wonder whether you are not better off buying older used hardware instead... especially if you are looking for a cheap linux laptop. For example, some time ago I got a Thinkpad X200 tablet in good condition off ebay for that price. I was mainly interested in the tablet functionality, but it's a nice little laptop that is still usable today. Even if you are specifically interested in Chrome OS, Chrome OS Flex might be an option on used hardware.

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haunter 4y ago
Agreed. I got an i5 Thinkpad x230 from eBay for similar price (~$120) and arguably it's much better in every aspect (probably not in thinness and weight)
- justinhj 4y ago
  I bought a damaged x230 to restore and play around with. I now use it for all my side projects and outside of work. It’s a really nice size and I love the keyboard.
  - haunter 4y ago
    Love mine too, it's a great notebook. Recently started hunting for a palm rest part with the built-in fingerprint reader, for whatever reason just love that more than using a USB key.
jt2190 4y ago
Here’s a list of ChromeOS Flex supported devices https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11513094 https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11513094

coldblues 4y ago

Sorry to bring this out of the blue, but I can't resist. The developer in these tweets is surprised that this Chromebook can run Flutter applications. This just shows how bloated and slow software development has become. Why wouldn't a low-powered device such as this run an application without a problem? I guess when you're developing and testing on thousand dollar computers, you don't really consider all the millions (likely billions) of people running low-end computers such as these.

mhoad 4y ago
I’m not sure what you think he was doing with that machine to begin with but he basically runs the Flutter project and was testing it with a low end device precisely because that is important to him to know how it performs for users on low end hardware. Kind of the exact opposite of what you are saying.
- coldblues 4y ago
  Yes, the fact that he's testing using that device is a good thing. But having software run fast on low-end computers shouldn't be a surprise, and I was just addressing how much we've lowered our standards for optimized software; unrelated to what he's doing. But I guess the way I wrote that, I was putting a lot of blame unto him.
onli 4y ago
Flutter btw is quite good for that, at least the app side of things (author was focused on web). I test our flutter app regularly with an old underpowered phone and it always worked well, with performance only getting better with newer versions - probably the project's work against shader stutters helps old devices as well.

Havoc 4y ago

>A few minor stutters I consistently get a single stutter around the March 2016 mark when doing a page reload even on pretty powerful hardware. ...but I see not when scrolling the timeline back, suggesting some sort of caching issue perhaps

johnsheen 4y ago

Yall are trying to make me feel bad who just bought Apple MBP 15 inch, i7, 16GB RAM, 256 SSD to learn HTML and CSS.

mark_l_watson 4y ago

I read that thread on Twitter earlier today. Great stuff. I bought a Lenovo Duet 2 last year - similar comments: except for my phone, the Duet could replace all of my devices, at a drastically low cost. Except, while it does everything, the CPU and memory are weak. If I were poor, it could easily be my only device and do everything I need. But, I am not poor and have 2 Mac laptops, 2 iPad Pros, and a really nice System76 Linux laptop. Still, the Duet is amazing for the money. Chromebooks are great generally for security and low effort admin, and the Linux containers handy - but, in using Google products it is really important to carefully set privacy and data sharing options.