5 ms·

> No need to waste time with 7 rounds of interviewing only to find out the salary is 50% of what I currently make. You can just ask at the end of the first int

by donatj 4y ago

> No need to waste time with 7 rounds of interviewing only to find out the salary is 50% of what I currently make. You can just ask at the end of the first interview. I've never had a problem doing so.

Clubber 4y ago
I would ask before the interview process even starts. Actually I wouldn't, I would just skip like the OP.
praptak 4y ago
I don't like having to ask.
- 1270018080 4y ago
  Ok.
- verdverm 4y ago
  what else do you not like but still have to do?
  - lazyasciiart 4y ago
    What makes you think he has to take jobs that don't tell him the salary upfront?
- codegeek 4y ago
  Don't ask. Tell. "Hey just to ensure that we are on the same page, I am ideally looking for a minimum of $xyz/year. Is that in the range for this role ?". Then pause and wait for their response.
  - lucasmullens 4y ago
    That's one quick way to get exactly a salary of $xyz, and with the word "ideally" in there you're admitting you'd go slightly lower.
    - wussboy 4y ago
      That’s why you make sure your minimum amount is something you would actually consider. Otherwise you’re only screwing yourself. On the other hand, giving a range and getting offered the bottom (which we already agreed is sufficient, otherwise why is it your bottom?) gives you the opportunity to negotiate non salary terms like health care, holiday, work from home, etc.
    - codegeek 4y ago
      Ok don't use the word "ideally" and say "minimum". But nothing wrong with getting what you want exactly. You can't have it both ways where you don't disclose your number but expect employer to. Decide what works for you, tell them that and shut up. Simple.
    - nunez 4y ago
      ask for more than $xyz and reject if they offer less than $xyz.
  - goodpoint 4y ago
    NEVER mention your minimum. If anything you should highball.
stitched2gethr 4y ago
Better to ask before the first interview, but that still takes more time than reading it off the posting.
- wccrawford 4y ago
  I think it sends a back signal and will put a slight negative mark on the interviewers' memories of that interview. Asking at the end of the interview shows that you care about other things, too. You can argue that it shouldn't, but people are people.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    I find it really bothers some companies while others are proud of their salary ranges and will gladly share upfront. The ones who get offended usually pay less and have had issues with employees quiting over low salaries and/or have heard negative candidate feedback around pay
silisili 4y ago
Yep. If they don't provide it, it's always my first 'do you have any questions for me' question on the initial 'tell you about the job' call.
unsupp0rted 4y ago
I can just tell the customer the price of my product after the first demo
- praptak 4y ago
  Some companies do that. Some actually do huge, heavily customized deployments where it is hard to tell the price upfront. For some others it's just to jack up the price if they smell a sucker.
PainfullyNormal 4y ago
That's not the point. Companies that don't list a salary range aren't being competitive. I can only apply to so many jobs at once, so I'm going to pick off the listings that list a salary range I want and apply to those first (and probably only).
- stevekemp 4y ago
  Exactly. I don't have the patience or juggling skills to apply to too many companies at the same time. Whenever I've been looking for work I'll google, search linkedin, etc, and pick the top three/four companies that seem interesting. I exclude any that don't include a salary range, and any which have "common knowledge" shared locally about them being bad companies. For the past few years that's been sufficient, sometimes I get an offer and accept, sometimes I have to choose between two offers. I've not even always taken the higher offers, because money is important, but it's not the only thing that matters when picking a job.
MattGaiser 4y ago
What happens to me is that I ask, they agree, and then they make a lower offer anyway.
- jiveturkey 4y ago
  That's when it's appropriate to rage on them, to inflict some small degree of emotional pain on the recruiter or HM or whoever falsely got you to waste your time, both as a little bit of selfish satisfaction and also to hopefully make it better for the next person. Then trash them on social media if you have a following. Maybe send them an invoice for your time. They won't pay it but it might be a fun thing to do.
srvmshr 4y ago
Maybe its a cultural thing, but doing that in a Japanese/Asian setup is a big red flag - to the point my recruiter wife has to warn foreign nationals they may not hear back from the company anymore. Salary negotiation is kept at the very last step. Personally I feel it is such a waste of time to discover if the salary doesn't meet your expectations after 3-5 rounds of song & dance.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  It has nothing to do with culture. It is simply a reflection of the supply demand curves for labor giving labor buyers much more negotiating power.
  - srvmshr 4y ago
    But Japan has always been a tech labor-shortage economy. That should incentivize employers to be advertising compensation. I am probably understanding your answer wrong. Could you please elaborate?
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      The evidence points to the assumption of a shortage being wrong. By definition, a shortage of labor sellers means labor sellers have an advantage in negotiations. From what I understand about Japan, even in the tech sector, the quality of life for labor sellers is pretty bad with long hours and not much room for high pay. I imagine if Japanese tech workers has the option of working for employers with compensation offerings like Google and Apple and other US companies, then they would not accept the quality of life that they are. And even with the terrible quality of life they have now, the Japanese world keeps spinning, so any shortage is clearly not short enough to be a showstopper (in the short term).
      - Dylan16807 4y ago
        Even with an advantage, it takes a concerted effort to push for culture change. Things can get by on inertia for a long time.
saxonww 4y ago
Typically I've been asked by the recruiter what my expectations are, as one of the first questions in an initial candidate screen. I'm generally in favor of posting salary ranges. I like to know how the company values the positions they are hiring for, and I don't really want to talk to a recruiter at all if it's not going to be a salary match, so I like the idea of being able to screen better as a candidate. But now that I've been on the hiring side, there's some flexibility I think we lose if we post those ranges: what do you do if you like a candidate, but not for the role they applied for? Perhaps their skills and background are not quite what you're looking for in this role, but you know another team has an open rec and this candidate is perfect. Or, maybe you've posted for a particular seniority range and you like the candidate but they are more/less senior than the posting, and you want to scale the position up or down to meet them. Neither of these scenarios (which seem to happen with regularity) preclude putting the range in the job description, but then the redirect or rescope feels bait-and-switchy when it's really not.
- badthingfactory 4y ago
  I would have no problem with a company saying "We really like you, but we found a better match for role x. If you're interested we think you'd be great in role y and here are the details." If I don't like the compensation of role y, I'll simply decline.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  That's because recruiters exploit lack of transparency to determine if you're worth their time and sucker you into lowballing yourself.
  - saxonww 4y ago
    Yeah I figure that happens. I declined to answer with the role I have now, and it worked out :shrug:. Not everyone is trying to screw you.
- FalconSensei 4y ago
  > Typically I've been asked by the recruiter what my expectations are, as one of the first questions in an initial candidate screen. So, if your expectations are below what they are willing to pay, they'll just offer your less?
Phrodo_00 4y ago
As long as that meeting is with your recruiter. As someone conducting technical interviews, I have no idea how much is on the table for candidates (I mean, I kind of know in general for the role, but not specifically).
driverdan 4y ago
Ask before the first interview. You shouldn't waste your time on an interview until you know the position matches what you're looking for.

by donatj 4y ago

Clubber 4y ago

I would ask before the interview process even starts. Actually I wouldn't, I would just skip like the OP.

praptak 4y ago

I don't like having to ask.

1270018080 4y ago
Ok.
verdverm 4y ago
what else do you not like but still have to do?
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  What makes you think he has to take jobs that don't tell him the salary upfront?
codegeek 4y ago
Don't ask. Tell. "Hey just to ensure that we are on the same page, I am ideally looking for a minimum of $xyz/year. Is that in the range for this role ?". Then pause and wait for their response.
- lucasmullens 4y ago
  That's one quick way to get exactly a salary of $xyz, and with the word "ideally" in there you're admitting you'd go slightly lower.
  - wussboy 4y ago
    That’s why you make sure your minimum amount is something you would actually consider. Otherwise you’re only screwing yourself. On the other hand, giving a range and getting offered the bottom (which we already agreed is sufficient, otherwise why is it your bottom?) gives you the opportunity to negotiate non salary terms like health care, holiday, work from home, etc.
  - codegeek 4y ago
    Ok don't use the word "ideally" and say "minimum". But nothing wrong with getting what you want exactly. You can't have it both ways where you don't disclose your number but expect employer to. Decide what works for you, tell them that and shut up. Simple.
  - nunez 4y ago
    ask for more than $xyz and reject if they offer less than $xyz.
- goodpoint 4y ago
  NEVER mention your minimum. If anything you should highball.

stitched2gethr 4y ago

Better to ask before the first interview, but that still takes more time than reading it off the posting.

wccrawford 4y ago
I think it sends a back signal and will put a slight negative mark on the interviewers' memories of that interview. Asking at the end of the interview shows that you care about other things, too. You can argue that it shouldn't, but people are people.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  I find it really bothers some companies while others are proud of their salary ranges and will gladly share upfront. The ones who get offended usually pay less and have had issues with employees quiting over low salaries and/or have heard negative candidate feedback around pay

silisili 4y ago

Yep. If they don't provide it, it's always my first 'do you have any questions for me' question on the initial 'tell you about the job' call.

unsupp0rted 4y ago

I can just tell the customer the price of my product after the first demo

praptak 4y ago
Some companies do that. Some actually do huge, heavily customized deployments where it is hard to tell the price upfront. For some others it's just to jack up the price if they smell a sucker.

PainfullyNormal 4y ago

That's not the point. Companies that don't list a salary range aren't being competitive. I can only apply to so many jobs at once, so I'm going to pick off the listings that list a salary range I want and apply to those first (and probably only).

stevekemp 4y ago
Exactly. I don't have the patience or juggling skills to apply to too many companies at the same time. Whenever I've been looking for work I'll google, search linkedin, etc, and pick the top three/four companies that seem interesting. I exclude any that don't include a salary range, and any which have "common knowledge" shared locally about them being bad companies. For the past few years that's been sufficient, sometimes I get an offer and accept, sometimes I have to choose between two offers. I've not even always taken the higher offers, because money is important, but it's not the only thing that matters when picking a job.

MattGaiser 4y ago

What happens to me is that I ask, they agree, and then they make a lower offer anyway.

jiveturkey 4y ago
That's when it's appropriate to rage on them, to inflict some small degree of emotional pain on the recruiter or HM or whoever falsely got you to waste your time, both as a little bit of selfish satisfaction and also to hopefully make it better for the next person. Then trash them on social media if you have a following. Maybe send them an invoice for your time. They won't pay it but it might be a fun thing to do.

srvmshr 4y ago

Maybe its a cultural thing, but doing that in a Japanese/Asian setup is a big red flag - to the point my recruiter wife has to warn foreign nationals they may not hear back from the company anymore. Salary negotiation is kept at the very last step. Personally I feel it is such a waste of time to discover if the salary doesn't meet your expectations after 3-5 rounds of song & dance.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
It has nothing to do with culture. It is simply a reflection of the supply demand curves for labor giving labor buyers much more negotiating power.
- srvmshr 4y ago
  But Japan has always been a tech labor-shortage economy. That should incentivize employers to be advertising compensation. I am probably understanding your answer wrong. Could you please elaborate?
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    The evidence points to the assumption of a shortage being wrong. By definition, a shortage of labor sellers means labor sellers have an advantage in negotiations. From what I understand about Japan, even in the tech sector, the quality of life for labor sellers is pretty bad with long hours and not much room for high pay. I imagine if Japanese tech workers has the option of working for employers with compensation offerings like Google and Apple and other US companies, then they would not accept the quality of life that they are. And even with the terrible quality of life they have now, the Japanese world keeps spinning, so any shortage is clearly not short enough to be a showstopper (in the short term).
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      Even with an advantage, it takes a concerted effort to push for culture change. Things can get by on inertia for a long time.

saxonww 4y ago

Typically I've been asked by the recruiter what my expectations are, as one of the first questions in an initial candidate screen. I'm generally in favor of posting salary ranges. I like to know how the company values the positions they are hiring for, and I don't really want to talk to a recruiter at all if it's not going to be a salary match, so I like the idea of being able to screen better as a candidate. But now that I've been on the hiring side, there's some flexibility I think we lose if we post those ranges: what do you do if you like a candidate, but not for the role they applied for? Perhaps their skills and background are not quite what you're looking for in this role, but you know another team has an open rec and this candidate is perfect. Or, maybe you've posted for a particular seniority range and you like the candidate but they are more/less senior than the posting, and you want to scale the position up or down to meet them. Neither of these scenarios (which seem to happen with regularity) preclude putting the range in the job description, but then the redirect or rescope feels bait-and-switchy when it's really not.

badthingfactory 4y ago
I would have no problem with a company saying "We really like you, but we found a better match for role x. If you're interested we think you'd be great in role y and here are the details." If I don't like the compensation of role y, I'll simply decline.
kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
That's because recruiters exploit lack of transparency to determine if you're worth their time and sucker you into lowballing yourself.
- saxonww 4y ago
  Yeah I figure that happens. I declined to answer with the role I have now, and it worked out :shrug:. Not everyone is trying to screw you.
FalconSensei 4y ago
> Typically I've been asked by the recruiter what my expectations are, as one of the first questions in an initial candidate screen. So, if your expectations are below what they are willing to pay, they'll just offer your less?

Phrodo_00 4y ago

As long as that meeting is with your recruiter. As someone conducting technical interviews, I have no idea how much is on the table for candidates (I mean, I kind of know in general for the role, but not specifically).

driverdan 4y ago

Ask before the first interview. You shouldn't waste your time on an interview until you know the position matches what you're looking for.