14 ms·

Seems to me they're alive and well. The increasingly powerful censorship forces on places like Reddit has moved at least dozens of communities to create indepen

by ufmace 4y ago

Seems to me they're alive and well. The increasingly powerful censorship forces on places like Reddit has moved at least dozens of communities to create independent platforms for themselves with a variety of codebases. Yes, some of the oldest and worst-maintained ones have died, but many others are still as active as they ever were. There's also a thing where communities tend to only really migrate to other forum-types that work similarly. Between Reddit/HN style nested threads with voting, classic PHPBB style strictly chronological threads, and Slack/Discord live chat with many channels, good luck getting a significant number of people on one platform type to move to a community on a different platform type. A different software package that provides a matching platform type is a much easier sell.

jorvi 4y ago
It still blows my mind that I got a multi-day suspension for calling out a pretty obvious Russian shill and calling him a moron. He’s still posting, btw.
- gambiting 4y ago
  I mean, it's not like smaller forums didn't have an issue with power hungry moderators who would ban you completely for stupidest things. The same people are now subreddit moderators. This isn't really a problem with reddit.
  - ls15 4y ago
    I think OP was referring to a site-wide ban that only admins can issue.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    It was much more fun to kick people out of a channel in IRC
    - dvtrn 4y ago
      I forget the name of it now, but back when I was still in irc regularly, I used a client that would hilariously play an explosion sound effect whenever someone got kicked. Made for amusing chuckles to hear it in the background whilst working and wondering “wonder who just got the hammer”
      - dylan604 4y ago
        back then, a lot of those kind of apps allowed you to assign your own sounds. the infamous Monty Python arrow sound "message for you sir!", the whistle sound before the explosion, etc were all popular sfx when the apps granted that kind of customization. now, we get ring tones and other "choose from our curated list". zzzzzz!
        kixiQu 4y ago
        I have the Sailor Moon sparkle noise as a Matrix notification sound and I regret nothing
        dylan604 4y ago
        Nor should you, unless your volume is at an eleven.
        dvtrn 4y ago
        Im with you on snoozing and being incredibly bored with the quality and range of “curated” stuff coming with my apps and services.
    - spacemanmatt 4y ago
      if you were a real chump you'd kickban them then teardr0p them
  - ufmace 4y ago
    That's not what I'm talking about though. Forum bans and subreddit bans are small change. What really makes people move platforms is when the Reddit admins nuke entire subreddits for dubious reasons, including breaking poorly defined rules. And admins deleting posts that follow the rules of their subreddit and completely banning accounts for various reasons.
    - thrown_22 4y ago
      Yes, this isn't new either. The advice given to IRC admins was always "don't post in your own channels". There are plenty of irc channels and forums administrated even worse than reddit.
    - WaxProlix 4y ago
      What sorts of subreddits have been nuked for dubious reasons? I know admins have been abusive of privilege in the past but it seems pretty small- to normal-sized-potatoes as forum admin ego tripping goes.
      - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
        A lot of people think /r/The_Donald was banned for dubious reasons.
        markdown 4y ago
        Those people never visited The_Donald and didn't see the racism and bigotry there. It was a cesspool had no other purpose than to circlejerk over Trump and malign, and attack his political opponents. It added no value to reddit.
        ninkendo 4y ago
        Hard agree. I deleted my reddit account over the fact that they kept letting T_D exist despite its obvious flouting of the rules around brigading (they arranged brigades on discord and took over other subreddits, repeatedly, after being warned) and how it was an increasingly obvious alt-right funnel full of some of the absolute worst people on the internet. They ultimately closed the subreddit about a year later, but I had already deleted my account at that point. I was better off in the end though, as the entire site is now just a giant meme dump with no redeeming qualities (it felt like all subreddits eventually saturate with memes on their main page as a function of their popularity, and it gets tiresome and same-ey after a while.)
  - noasaservice 4y ago
    > This isn't really a problem with reddit. YES it is. Reddit empowers fascist types to run their fiefdoms, UNTIL the liliputian leaders start running *too many* users away. It's all about users per day engagement. If you harm that, the reddit admins show up and clean house. But in the interim, they'll let you think you own that subreddit.
    - gambiting 4y ago
      And if you were a mod of a smaller forum that relied on ads to stay afloat, what exactly would happen if you started banning loads of people? It's the same thing, different name.
      - Dylan16807 4y ago
        That scenario basically doesn't exist. A smaller forum can thrive on $5 hosting. (We're comparing to reddit so I assume volunteer moderation.)
  - tcmart14 4y ago
    Yea, that is the part of the equation people forget. They see a ban and big platform and thing those things are only happening on big platforms owned by big corporate people in shiny offices. Nope, censorship can happen in small communities ran by Billy Bob down the street to. It comes down more to people. If someone wants an echo chamber, they will create an echo chamber regardless if it is a subreddit or a MyBB instance on a shared hosting plan.
- ls15 4y ago
  Because you are not supposed to attack other redditors. Reddit Content Policy - Rule 1 Remember the human. Reddit is a place for creating community and belonging, not for attacking marginalized or vulnerable groups of people. Everyone has a right to use Reddit free of harassment, bullying, and threats of violence. Communities and users that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.
  - cowtools 4y ago
    Being insulted is an "attack"?
    - ls15 4y ago
      Insult a synonym for verbal attack
      - cowtools 4y ago
        So it is unacceptable now to merely insult other users? You can act coy about the meaning of this, but the usage of such language is obvious. It is trying to compare a voluntary public exchange between anonymous internet users to acts of physical violence. The usage of that word there is essentially an underhanded attempt at justifying future censorship through its ambiguous meaning. When moderators agree with the "attacked" the message becomes a bannable offense, but when moderators agree with the "attacker" the message becomes "fair criticism".
        jfengel 4y ago
        Yes. It is unacceptable now to merely insult other users, on their platform. As well as this one.
        cowtools 4y ago
        Whose platform is it? It's the users that make the forum valuable. Anyone can administrate a web forum. The individuals and communities should decide what speech is acceptable for them, not some unaccountable bureaucrats. I think there is a time and place for insults and flamewars. Maybe not everywhere all the time, but what you are seeing on the web today is selective enforcement of "politeness" and "civility" rules to benefit whatever side of the "flamewar" that the moderators approve of. HN is a good forum insofar as the users think that admins enforce reasonable rules and users agree to abide by those rules and not evade bans. On HN, moderation is rather sophisticated and neutral. When that changes I'll leave.
- datalopers 4y ago
  Which subreddit? Each sub has different mods
- TeeMassive 4y ago
  On the other side of the medal, my native language is French and I got banned due to me being a "Russian operative"
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    While the US was in the "everyone is a Russian agent"-craze I talked to 1 person on the internet that was actually a Russian. There are many Russians that speak English but the language barrier is still quite high, most of them have higher education and are pretty critical of politics and information of course. Much to the contrary to the average redditor.
- onionisafruit 4y ago
  It sounds like you called somebody a moron for having a different POV from you.
- colpabar 4y ago
  What was obvious about it? In my experience, a lot of people seem to think that anyone with a different opinion than their own must be a russian operative.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

by ufmace 4y ago

jorvi 4y ago

It still blows my mind that I got a multi-day suspension for calling out a pretty obvious Russian shill and calling him a moron. He’s still posting, btw.

gambiting 4y ago
I mean, it's not like smaller forums didn't have an issue with power hungry moderators who would ban you completely for stupidest things. The same people are now subreddit moderators. This isn't really a problem with reddit.
- ls15 4y ago
  I think OP was referring to a site-wide ban that only admins can issue.
- dylan604 4y ago
  It was much more fun to kick people out of a channel in IRC
  - dvtrn 4y ago
    I forget the name of it now, but back when I was still in irc regularly, I used a client that would hilariously play an explosion sound effect whenever someone got kicked. Made for amusing chuckles to hear it in the background whilst working and wondering “wonder who just got the hammer”
    - dylan604 4y ago
      back then, a lot of those kind of apps allowed you to assign your own sounds. the infamous Monty Python arrow sound "message for you sir!", the whistle sound before the explosion, etc were all popular sfx when the apps granted that kind of customization. now, we get ring tones and other "choose from our curated list". zzzzzz!
      - kixiQu 4y ago
        I have the Sailor Moon sparkle noise as a Matrix notification sound and I regret nothing
        dylan604 4y ago
        Nor should you, unless your volume is at an eleven.
      - dvtrn 4y ago
        Im with you on snoozing and being incredibly bored with the quality and range of “curated” stuff coming with my apps and services.
  - spacemanmatt 4y ago
    if you were a real chump you'd kickban them then teardr0p them
- ufmace 4y ago
  That's not what I'm talking about though. Forum bans and subreddit bans are small change. What really makes people move platforms is when the Reddit admins nuke entire subreddits for dubious reasons, including breaking poorly defined rules. And admins deleting posts that follow the rules of their subreddit and completely banning accounts for various reasons.
  - thrown_22 4y ago
    Yes, this isn't new either. The advice given to IRC admins was always "don't post in your own channels". There are plenty of irc channels and forums administrated even worse than reddit.
  - WaxProlix 4y ago
    What sorts of subreddits have been nuked for dubious reasons? I know admins have been abusive of privilege in the past but it seems pretty small- to normal-sized-potatoes as forum admin ego tripping goes.
    - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
      A lot of people think /r/The_Donald was banned for dubious reasons.
      - markdown 4y ago
        Those people never visited The_Donald and didn't see the racism and bigotry there. It was a cesspool had no other purpose than to circlejerk over Trump and malign, and attack his political opponents. It added no value to reddit.
        ninkendo 4y ago
        Hard agree. I deleted my reddit account over the fact that they kept letting T_D exist despite its obvious flouting of the rules around brigading (they arranged brigades on discord and took over other subreddits, repeatedly, after being warned) and how it was an increasingly obvious alt-right funnel full of some of the absolute worst people on the internet. They ultimately closed the subreddit about a year later, but I had already deleted my account at that point. I was better off in the end though, as the entire site is now just a giant meme dump with no redeeming qualities (it felt like all subreddits eventually saturate with memes on their main page as a function of their popularity, and it gets tiresome and same-ey after a while.)
- noasaservice 4y ago
  > This isn't really a problem with reddit. YES it is. Reddit empowers fascist types to run their fiefdoms, UNTIL the liliputian leaders start running *too many* users away. It's all about users per day engagement. If you harm that, the reddit admins show up and clean house. But in the interim, they'll let you think you own that subreddit.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    And if you were a mod of a smaller forum that relied on ads to stay afloat, what exactly would happen if you started banning loads of people? It's the same thing, different name.
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      That scenario basically doesn't exist. A smaller forum can thrive on $5 hosting. (We're comparing to reddit so I assume volunteer moderation.)
- tcmart14 4y ago
  Yea, that is the part of the equation people forget. They see a ban and big platform and thing those things are only happening on big platforms owned by big corporate people in shiny offices. Nope, censorship can happen in small communities ran by Billy Bob down the street to. It comes down more to people. If someone wants an echo chamber, they will create an echo chamber regardless if it is a subreddit or a MyBB instance on a shared hosting plan.
ls15 4y ago
Because you are not supposed to attack other redditors. Reddit Content Policy - Rule 1 Remember the human. Reddit is a place for creating community and belonging, not for attacking marginalized or vulnerable groups of people. Everyone has a right to use Reddit free of harassment, bullying, and threats of violence. Communities and users that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.
- cowtools 4y ago
  Being insulted is an "attack"?
  - ls15 4y ago
    Insult a synonym for verbal attack
    - cowtools 4y ago
      So it is unacceptable now to merely insult other users? You can act coy about the meaning of this, but the usage of such language is obvious. It is trying to compare a voluntary public exchange between anonymous internet users to acts of physical violence. The usage of that word there is essentially an underhanded attempt at justifying future censorship through its ambiguous meaning. When moderators agree with the "attacked" the message becomes a bannable offense, but when moderators agree with the "attacker" the message becomes "fair criticism".
      - jfengel 4y ago
        Yes. It is unacceptable now to merely insult other users, on their platform. As well as this one.
        cowtools 4y ago
        Whose platform is it? It's the users that make the forum valuable. Anyone can administrate a web forum. The individuals and communities should decide what speech is acceptable for them, not some unaccountable bureaucrats. I think there is a time and place for insults and flamewars. Maybe not everywhere all the time, but what you are seeing on the web today is selective enforcement of "politeness" and "civility" rules to benefit whatever side of the "flamewar" that the moderators approve of. HN is a good forum insofar as the users think that admins enforce reasonable rules and users agree to abide by those rules and not evade bans. On HN, moderation is rather sophisticated and neutral. When that changes I'll leave.
datalopers 4y ago
Which subreddit? Each sub has different mods
TeeMassive 4y ago
On the other side of the medal, my native language is French and I got banned due to me being a "Russian operative"
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  While the US was in the "everyone is a Russian agent"-craze I talked to 1 person on the internet that was actually a Russian. There are many Russians that speak English but the language barrier is still quite high, most of them have higher education and are pretty critical of politics and information of course. Much to the contrary to the average redditor.
onionisafruit 4y ago
It sounds like you called somebody a moron for having a different POV from you.
colpabar 4y ago
What was obvious about it? In my experience, a lot of people seem to think that anyone with a different opinion than their own must be a russian operative.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]