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> I hate that it's being used as an argument against cyclists: "get off the road, you don't pay road tax". It's really more that many cyclists are in the way a

> I hate that it's being used as an argument against cyclists: "get off the road, you don't pay road tax". It's really more that many cyclists are in the way and aren't going the speed limit. You end up holding up a lot of traffic that is forced to go slower and that's annoying to everyone. to be frank, when you're driving a car a person on a bike taking up the entire road is annoying. This is why people really dislike bikes - they get in the way of people trying to get somewhere.

techterrier 4y ago
hell hath no fury like a mildly inconvenienced motorist
- prawn 4y ago
  You could spend eternity studying how some people feel aggressively about cyclists. Would be great to understand the crux of it. Fairness (road taxes), jealousy (skipping lights, getting ahead of traffic), shame (should I be exercising too?), otherness.
  - supertrope 4y ago
    It seems to mostly be annoyance that they have to share the road. Cyclists aren't zooming along at 44MPH on a 35MPH road. Other motorists are also in their way. Automobile commercials always depict an idyllic empty road just for you.
    - prawn 4y ago
      Not sure it's just an annoyance at sharing the road - like you said, there are other motorists. You don't see epic forum rage-discussions about garbage trucks holding up traffic, street-sweepers, buses, parking lanes that revert at rush hour. Those get discussed, but there always seems to be a special rage reserved by some people for cyclists - the quiet, small road users. I think you could explain a lot about a large segment of people by isolating and understanding this. If I'm held up by a cyclist, I think "Good on them, they're braver and fitter than me."
yohannparis 4y ago
> many cyclists [...] aren't going the speed limit. It's a speed upper limit, not a minimum. Are you upset when an agricole machine is using the public roads? This "annoyance" against people not travelling at the speed limit on public roads is based on a lack of time management and the expectation that the road is empty. This is a selfish point of view. When I want to control my travelling time, I walk or cycle. When I want comfort, I use public transportation or my car.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  >It's a speed upper limit, not a minimum. Are you upset when an agricole machine is using the public roads? This is an infantile way of framing it. 99.9999% of road users (all types) DGAF what you do as long as you meed expectations for your type of traffic. Pretty much nobody gets angry at slower traffic (tractors, cyclists, commercial vehicles) so long as it is meeting their expectations for what it is. If you drive a normal car and try and act like something slower don't be surprised when it pisses people off. Likewise if you cycle or have to operate heavy machinery on road and try and act like a car outside of some narrow circumstances don't be surprised when it pisses people off.
- dahfizz 4y ago
  > Are you upset when an agricole machine is using the public roads? Nope. 1) Any tractor I've been behind on a public road will pull over to let traffic pass by when possible. 2) Tractors obey all traffic lights and laws and behave predictably. 3) I've never seen a tractor driver act aggressively towards a car.
  - yohannparis 4y ago
    1) Cyclist are on the right side of the road (not against the ditch/gutter/curb...), and easy to see past them to know if you can safely pass them. 2) Most cyclist do, some do not, same as drivers 3) Same as 2), and cyclist can be aggressive when your life is at stake. I think drivers mostly forget they are in charge of a dangerous machine.
  - bluecalm 4y ago
prmoustache 4y ago
But then you look at the average speed of cars and you realize that in most urban area it is roughly the same as the cyclists. How many stupid motorists kept screaming their engine when I was commuting just to pass me then come to a screetching halt behind other cars at the next traffic light while I just pass them back to the front of the line.
_vertigo 4y ago
As a cyclist, I am also trying to get somewhere, and I don't enjoy being on the road with motorists either. Based on your comment, I have to assume we live in different areas. I live in the city, and generally it is better and faster to bike because one can bike almost as fast as a car due to not needing to wait for traffic and there's no need to find parking at the destination. From my POV, the motorists I have to share the road with are driving on low throughput streets and generally don't belong on the streets I am traveling down. Do you live out in the country with 2 lane roads? A small town?
- nemo44x 4y ago
  I take the subway when in the city or a taxi if it’s faster. People on bikes get hit all the time and police investigations nearly always find the bike rider at fault. The town I’m in outside the city is not a small town. There’s very little that’s more annoying than a group of spandex clad Tour de France wannabes taking up the entire road so they can cosplay.
  - matsemann 4y ago
    > police investigations nearly always find the bike rider at fault. Source please. Sounds like a confirmation bias on your part. > There’s very little that’s more annoying than a group of spandex clad Tour de France wannabes taking up the entire road so they can cosplay. You sound jealous. Get a hobby yourself, perhaps?
tomgp 4y ago
leaving aside the fact that the speed limit is an upper bound on speed not mandatory… on my bike i’m more regularly held up by cars (often a single occupant) than i am by cyclists when driving my car. but overwhelmingly its cars holding up other cars.
ehnto 4y ago
That's a nasty bias you have. Cyclists are clearly also "people trying to get somewhere". I'd argue they're trying harder than you are. I won't defend all cyclists, some of them have bad etiquette for sure. I certainly don't have traffic piled up behind me. But I'd argue they've inconvenienced you far less than your car infrastructure has inconvenienced them. I promise if they had a separated fast bike lane to use, they'd be using that instead of getting blasted by cars and trucks and dealing with people angry they're late for their next stoplight. If you want cyclists off your road, then you should be lobbying for better cycling infrastructure.
- ApolloFortyNine 4y ago
  The cyclists in the US I see in a suburban area are almost all doing it for exercise (pretty obvious from the getup), not to get somewhere. In a more downtown area it's obviously different. >dealing with people angry they're late for their next stoplight. Sounds like you have some nasty bias yourself.
  - yohannparis 4y ago
    Few people cyclists in the U.S.A. suburs are cycling for transport instead of sport... because of the infrastructure. Only mad cyclists dare their life for it! The danger while cycling is not the bike or falling down, it's the motorized users.
  - ecnahc515 4y ago
    > The cyclists in the US I see in a suburban area are almost all doing it for exercise (pretty obvious from the getup), not to get somewhere. That might change if there was more dedicated bike lanes.
  - matsemann 4y ago
    And why are people driving? Is their goal so much holier than whatever reason the bicyclist is out biking? Don't live your life thinking everything revolves around you.
  - ehnto 4y ago

techterrier 4y ago

hell hath no fury like a mildly inconvenienced motorist

prawn 4y ago
You could spend eternity studying how some people feel aggressively about cyclists. Would be great to understand the crux of it. Fairness (road taxes), jealousy (skipping lights, getting ahead of traffic), shame (should I be exercising too?), otherness.
- supertrope 4y ago
  It seems to mostly be annoyance that they have to share the road. Cyclists aren't zooming along at 44MPH on a 35MPH road. Other motorists are also in their way. Automobile commercials always depict an idyllic empty road just for you.
  - prawn 4y ago
    Not sure it's just an annoyance at sharing the road - like you said, there are other motorists. You don't see epic forum rage-discussions about garbage trucks holding up traffic, street-sweepers, buses, parking lanes that revert at rush hour. Those get discussed, but there always seems to be a special rage reserved by some people for cyclists - the quiet, small road users. I think you could explain a lot about a large segment of people by isolating and understanding this. If I'm held up by a cyclist, I think "Good on them, they're braver and fitter than me."

yohannparis 4y ago

> many cyclists [...] aren't going the speed limit. It's a speed upper limit, not a minimum. Are you upset when an agricole machine is using the public roads? This "annoyance" against people not travelling at the speed limit on public roads is based on a lack of time management and the expectation that the road is empty. This is a selfish point of view. When I want to control my travelling time, I walk or cycle. When I want comfort, I use public transportation or my car.

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
>It's a speed upper limit, not a minimum. Are you upset when an agricole machine is using the public roads? This is an infantile way of framing it. 99.9999% of road users (all types) DGAF what you do as long as you meed expectations for your type of traffic. Pretty much nobody gets angry at slower traffic (tractors, cyclists, commercial vehicles) so long as it is meeting their expectations for what it is. If you drive a normal car and try and act like something slower don't be surprised when it pisses people off. Likewise if you cycle or have to operate heavy machinery on road and try and act like a car outside of some narrow circumstances don't be surprised when it pisses people off.
dahfizz 4y ago
> Are you upset when an agricole machine is using the public roads? Nope. 1) Any tractor I've been behind on a public road will pull over to let traffic pass by when possible. 2) Tractors obey all traffic lights and laws and behave predictably. 3) I've never seen a tractor driver act aggressively towards a car.
- yohannparis 4y ago
  1) Cyclist are on the right side of the road (not against the ditch/gutter/curb...), and easy to see past them to know if you can safely pass them. 2) Most cyclist do, some do not, same as drivers 3) Same as 2), and cyclist can be aggressive when your life is at stake. I think drivers mostly forget they are in charge of a dangerous machine.
- bluecalm 4y ago

prmoustache 4y ago

But then you look at the average speed of cars and you realize that in most urban area it is roughly the same as the cyclists. How many stupid motorists kept screaming their engine when I was commuting just to pass me then come to a screetching halt behind other cars at the next traffic light while I just pass them back to the front of the line.

_vertigo 4y ago

As a cyclist, I am also trying to get somewhere, and I don't enjoy being on the road with motorists either. Based on your comment, I have to assume we live in different areas. I live in the city, and generally it is better and faster to bike because one can bike almost as fast as a car due to not needing to wait for traffic and there's no need to find parking at the destination. From my POV, the motorists I have to share the road with are driving on low throughput streets and generally don't belong on the streets I am traveling down. Do you live out in the country with 2 lane roads? A small town?

nemo44x 4y ago
I take the subway when in the city or a taxi if it’s faster. People on bikes get hit all the time and police investigations nearly always find the bike rider at fault. The town I’m in outside the city is not a small town. There’s very little that’s more annoying than a group of spandex clad Tour de France wannabes taking up the entire road so they can cosplay.
- matsemann 4y ago
  > police investigations nearly always find the bike rider at fault. Source please. Sounds like a confirmation bias on your part. > There’s very little that’s more annoying than a group of spandex clad Tour de France wannabes taking up the entire road so they can cosplay. You sound jealous. Get a hobby yourself, perhaps?

tomgp 4y ago

leaving aside the fact that the speed limit is an upper bound on speed not mandatory… on my bike i’m more regularly held up by cars (often a single occupant) than i am by cyclists when driving my car. but overwhelmingly its cars holding up other cars.

ehnto 4y ago

That's a nasty bias you have. Cyclists are clearly also "people trying to get somewhere". I'd argue they're trying harder than you are. I won't defend all cyclists, some of them have bad etiquette for sure. I certainly don't have traffic piled up behind me. But I'd argue they've inconvenienced you far less than your car infrastructure has inconvenienced them. I promise if they had a separated fast bike lane to use, they'd be using that instead of getting blasted by cars and trucks and dealing with people angry they're late for their next stoplight. If you want cyclists off your road, then you should be lobbying for better cycling infrastructure.

ApolloFortyNine 4y ago
The cyclists in the US I see in a suburban area are almost all doing it for exercise (pretty obvious from the getup), not to get somewhere. In a more downtown area it's obviously different. >dealing with people angry they're late for their next stoplight. Sounds like you have some nasty bias yourself.
- yohannparis 4y ago
  Few people cyclists in the U.S.A. suburs are cycling for transport instead of sport... because of the infrastructure. Only mad cyclists dare their life for it! The danger while cycling is not the bike or falling down, it's the motorized users.
- ecnahc515 4y ago
  > The cyclists in the US I see in a suburban area are almost all doing it for exercise (pretty obvious from the getup), not to get somewhere. That might change if there was more dedicated bike lanes.
- matsemann 4y ago
  And why are people driving? Is their goal so much holier than whatever reason the bicyclist is out biking? Don't live your life thinking everything revolves around you.
- ehnto 4y ago