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Nominal wages have been rising, real wages have been falling. A great victory for labor huh. To be less cryptic, there's a relentless chorus of people advocat

Nominal wages have been rising, real wages have been falling. A great victory for labor huh. To be less cryptic, there's a relentless chorus of people advocating for inflationary policies that achieve the exact opposite of their intended effect.

bioemerl 4y ago
Recently that has been true, but in the long term the trend has gone towards real wages rising. And we really should be expecting real wages to drop at the moment, that's a sign our economy is doing a good job at reflecting what's going on in the world. I'd be more concerned if they were all going up despite all these issues because it would mean we are at disconnected from reality and that normally comes with a crash after a couple of years There are a few graphs from the US Fed that show it pretty well. Wages got very static after 2008 and started heading back up once we left the Great recession stagnation era. Then we have the drop from recent events such as the war with Russia, covid in China causing lockdowns, supply chain issues. More than likely as things recover it'll start taking up again
- adam_arthur 4y ago
  Yes, it's good real wages are declining given the inflationary backdrop. But politicians fighting inflation with higher wages and stimulus checks, as well as the chorus of idiots cheering them on, repeating the same mistakes as the 70s, is quite mindblowing. How far do consumer sentiment and approval ratings have to drop for people to wake up to basic economic realities? They didn't have the internet in the 70s, by the way.
  - XorNot 4y ago
    How much money do you think $600 actually is? People have been going on and on as though $600 was too much inflationary pressure. You get that that is less then 1 months rent, right?
    - adam_arthur 4y ago
      It was over $4T in stimulus, and extended far beyond individual stimulus checks. Which doesn't even include forbearances that add a few T more in consumer spending power, or artificially low interest rates driven by the Fed Here's your inflation: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSXFS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSXFS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PI https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PI Maybe you can clue some of the others into it. Not like we have the internet and easily observable datapoints that makes it quite obvious huh. Instead have to hear the inane idiocy of economically illiterate people promoting policy that does the opposite of what they want to achieve
      - XorNot 4y ago
        If you include GDP next to those two graphs, then the story is quite different: retail spending is following the increase in GDP, and pay is lagging it: https://i.imgur.com/4VtMsBW.png https://i.imgur.com/4VtMsBW.png The stimulus bumps are quite visible, but subsequent data is right in line.
        adam_arthur 4y ago
        GDP is just a measure of total dollars spent in the economy. So of course if you print money and hand it to people, GDP goes up (nominally)
        XorNot 4y ago
        But personal income does not, which as noted is already observably a visible spike (from adjacent) in the graph you cited. So where is the driven increase in retail spending coming from since it observably is not being delivered from the government to citizens.
        adam_arthur 4y ago
        It does via inflation which is why it's rising faster than the pre-covid trend

bioemerl 4y ago

Recently that has been true, but in the long term the trend has gone towards real wages rising. And we really should be expecting real wages to drop at the moment, that's a sign our economy is doing a good job at reflecting what's going on in the world. I'd be more concerned if they were all going up despite all these issues because it would mean we are at disconnected from reality and that normally comes with a crash after a couple of years There are a few graphs from the US Fed that show it pretty well. Wages got very static after 2008 and started heading back up once we left the Great recession stagnation era. Then we have the drop from recent events such as the war with Russia, covid in China causing lockdowns, supply chain issues. More than likely as things recover it'll start taking up again

adam_arthur 4y ago
Yes, it's good real wages are declining given the inflationary backdrop. But politicians fighting inflation with higher wages and stimulus checks, as well as the chorus of idiots cheering them on, repeating the same mistakes as the 70s, is quite mindblowing. How far do consumer sentiment and approval ratings have to drop for people to wake up to basic economic realities? They didn't have the internet in the 70s, by the way.
- XorNot 4y ago
  How much money do you think $600 actually is? People have been going on and on as though $600 was too much inflationary pressure. You get that that is less then 1 months rent, right?
  - adam_arthur 4y ago
    It was over $4T in stimulus, and extended far beyond individual stimulus checks. Which doesn't even include forbearances that add a few T more in consumer spending power, or artificially low interest rates driven by the Fed Here's your inflation: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSXFS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSXFS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PI https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PI Maybe you can clue some of the others into it. Not like we have the internet and easily observable datapoints that makes it quite obvious huh. Instead have to hear the inane idiocy of economically illiterate people promoting policy that does the opposite of what they want to achieve
    - XorNot 4y ago
      If you include GDP next to those two graphs, then the story is quite different: retail spending is following the increase in GDP, and pay is lagging it: https://i.imgur.com/4VtMsBW.png https://i.imgur.com/4VtMsBW.png The stimulus bumps are quite visible, but subsequent data is right in line.
      - adam_arthur 4y ago
        GDP is just a measure of total dollars spent in the economy. So of course if you print money and hand it to people, GDP goes up (nominally)
        XorNot 4y ago
        But personal income does not, which as noted is already observably a visible spike (from adjacent) in the graph you cited. So where is the driven increase in retail spending coming from since it observably is not being delivered from the government to citizens.
        adam_arthur 4y ago
        It does via inflation which is why it's rising faster than the pre-covid trend