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"Paper" people need to understand one thing: the real world does not give a shit what your paper stack says. For your paper-based project to have any effect on

by ls15 4y ago

"Paper" people need to understand one thing: the real world does not give a shit what your paper stack says. For your paper-based project to have any effect on the real world, you need some physical, trusted party to reconcile the state of the paper with the state of the real world... at which point you may just let the trusted party rely on a good old stone tablet.

Nextgrid 4y ago
When writing this comment I originally wanted to make an analogy to law and the reason the law is (usually) followed isn’t because “law” is a magic word that gives the text magical powers but because if you don’t follow it, some goons with guns will eventually show up and convince you to follow it. In this case, the goons are that “trusted party” that’s meant to reconcile the state of the paper with the state of the real world. We know it’s not perfect which is why we have various levels of redundancy and oversight, and while it’s still not 100% reliable it usually works quite well. However I’m not sure what you mean to signify with your paper vs stone tablet comparison. Unlike blockchains, paper doesn’t claim to do anything magical compared to stone tablets - it’s still just a medium of storing written text.
randomopining 4y ago
Paper and stone tablets are the same thing lol. The whole point is a modern functioning society is a chain of humans that are held by social, economic, and legal forces to perform duties. A blockchain exists online, it's not "real". The blockchain can't perform actions in the physical world. Humans have to. The blockchain can't inspect a house before sale. The blockchain can't test the water quality outside of a factory upstream from your town.
pwdisswordfish9 4y ago
> "Paper" people need to understand one thing: the real world does not give a shit what your paper stack says. For your paper-based project to have any effect on the real world, you need some physical, trusted party to reconcile the state of the paper with the state of the real world... This but unironically.
- apeace 4y ago
  Right. It's not the paper or stone tablets that ever made any changes. It was the people willing to do it in the real world. So the point is that blockchains don't open up any new possibilities that weren't there before. People always could've done whatever they were willing to do. Blockchains may have some benefits, but it's not as if people starting independent states was impossible before them.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rubatuga 4y ago
  The sooner we reach a steady state of pro-crypto and anti-crypto people the sooner we can move on with our lives.
majormajor 4y ago
Hence why the Declaration of Independence was followed by a war. (Paper = stone here for all intents and purposes, it's just easier to write on.) How many blockchain hype people are explicitly promoting wars for independence, though?
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> trusted party to reconcile the state of the paper with the state of the real world that's called enforcement of the law, that can rely on force, if necessary. a blockchain has the same value of paper (on paper) but it can be shut down by cutting electricity and, most of all, has no way to enforce what's stored on it. Because no trusted party is willing to make the effort, there is no way a bunch of individuals are going to come together and declare war (to whom?) to make it stick.
akhmatova 4y ago
You need some physical, trusted party to reconcile the state of the paper with the state of the real world... Otherwise known as working State with an army, a navy, nukes, and democracy (for stability), or some semblance thereof, and all the other stuff that keeps it humming along for 200+ years despite internal turmoil, foreign attacks, and all that. And rich enough to keep its economy humming too, and its coffers flush with cash and other reserves. That's what makes a stable currency; not "fiat" or "paper stacks".
imtringued 4y ago
We have banks and law enforcement.

by ls15 4y ago

Nextgrid 4y ago

When writing this comment I originally wanted to make an analogy to law and the reason the law is (usually) followed isn’t because “law” is a magic word that gives the text magical powers but because if you don’t follow it, some goons with guns will eventually show up and convince you to follow it. In this case, the goons are that “trusted party” that’s meant to reconcile the state of the paper with the state of the real world. We know it’s not perfect which is why we have various levels of redundancy and oversight, and while it’s still not 100% reliable it usually works quite well. However I’m not sure what you mean to signify with your paper vs stone tablet comparison. Unlike blockchains, paper doesn’t claim to do anything magical compared to stone tablets - it’s still just a medium of storing written text.

randomopining 4y ago

Paper and stone tablets are the same thing lol. The whole point is a modern functioning society is a chain of humans that are held by social, economic, and legal forces to perform duties. A blockchain exists online, it's not "real". The blockchain can't perform actions in the physical world. Humans have to. The blockchain can't inspect a house before sale. The blockchain can't test the water quality outside of a factory upstream from your town.

pwdisswordfish9 4y ago

> "Paper" people need to understand one thing: the real world does not give a shit what your paper stack says. For your paper-based project to have any effect on the real world, you need some physical, trusted party to reconcile the state of the paper with the state of the real world... This but unironically.

apeace 4y ago
Right. It's not the paper or stone tablets that ever made any changes. It was the people willing to do it in the real world. So the point is that blockchains don't open up any new possibilities that weren't there before. People always could've done whatever they were willing to do. Blockchains may have some benefits, but it's not as if people starting independent states was impossible before them.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rubatuga 4y ago
The sooner we reach a steady state of pro-crypto and anti-crypto people the sooner we can move on with our lives.

majormajor 4y ago

Hence why the Declaration of Independence was followed by a war. (Paper = stone here for all intents and purposes, it's just easier to write on.) How many blockchain hype people are explicitly promoting wars for independence, though?

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

> trusted party to reconcile the state of the paper with the state of the real world that's called enforcement of the law, that can rely on force, if necessary. a blockchain has the same value of paper (on paper) but it can be shut down by cutting electricity and, most of all, has no way to enforce what's stored on it. Because no trusted party is willing to make the effort, there is no way a bunch of individuals are going to come together and declare war (to whom?) to make it stick.

akhmatova 4y ago

You need some physical, trusted party to reconcile the state of the paper with the state of the real world... Otherwise known as working State with an army, a navy, nukes, and democracy (for stability), or some semblance thereof, and all the other stuff that keeps it humming along for 200+ years despite internal turmoil, foreign attacks, and all that. And rich enough to keep its economy humming too, and its coffers flush with cash and other reserves. That's what makes a stable currency; not "fiat" or "paper stacks".

imtringued 4y ago

We have banks and law enforcement.