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The bad news: My $4000 Mac Pro may be killing me
- parenthesis 18y agoYou might want to just read the originating article: http://translate.google.fr/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.liberation.fr%2Fterre%2F010133618-mac-pro-le-pepin-toxique-pour-apple&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&sl=fr&tl=en http://translate.google.fr/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.libe...
- ovi256 18y agoYeah, it's a bit less dramatic, but it mentions the same facts: benzene present in the fumes, and its known toxicity.
- visakhcr 18y agoanyone think there is some fact in this??
- jm4 18y agoIt's probably true of many of the products we use on a daily basis.
- silentbicycle 18y agoDefinitely. It's interesting to skim the material safety data sheets for commonly consumed chemicals, BTW: Sugar: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s7394.htm http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s7394.htm ("Extremely large oral dosages may produce gastrointestinal disturbances.") Capsaicin (in hot peppers): http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Capsaicin_Natural-9923296 http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Capsaicin_Natural-9923296 ("Taste: Burning.") Alcohol (ethanol): http://www.nafaa.org/ethanol.pdf http://www.nafaa.org/ethanol.pdf ("May cause central nervous system depression, characterized by excitement, followed by headache, dizziness, drowsiness, and nausea.") Caffeine: http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Caffeine-9927475 http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Caffeine-9927475 Table salt: http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Sodium_chloride-9927593 http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Sodium_chloride-9927593
- pistoriusp 18y agoI've been working on a pre-2008 Mac Pro for a year now. I have noticed that I often have headaches, and this is not a regular occurrence for me. Of course it has not rained in Johannesburg, South Africa yet... it's a few weeks overdue and my sinus might be at fault. But I am slightly concerned.
- metatronscube 18y agoI would not be too concerned about things like this, there are far more harmful carcinogenic materials around you....such as synthetic drugs, herbicides, pesticides, metal in your old fillings..etc (I could go on) The harmful components used in the construction of the cases are in such small quantities that its almost a non concern!
- TweedHeads 18y agoThe trick here is "may be" See? Deceptive marketing, people just read the headline, gets scared and never buys a mac for fear. Ask yourself this question, who is so ethically wrong to be behind this ad? Who benefits the most from the damage it may cause a competitor? There is the answer...
- h34t 18y agoOr, look at science for the answer, and discover that toxins off-gassing from products and homes are a largely underreported phenomenon with far-ranging effects on the human body.
- river_styx 18y agoRight. So these Mac Pros are releasing trace amounts of benzene, which may cause cancer or death in high doses. Nothing like a little sensationalism early in the morning.
- davidw 18y agoIt causes cancer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene#Health_effects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene#Health_effects That said, the article is still pretty sensationalistic.
- palish 18y agoThat's true, but irrelevant. If I may borrow Mr. Jaynes' words: For example, to tell us that a sugar substitute is dangerous in doses a thousand times greater than would ever be encountered in practice, is hardly an argument against using the substitute; indeed, the fact that it is necessary to go to kilodoses in order to detect any ill effects at all, is rather conclusive evidence, not of the danger, but of the safety, of a tested substance. A similar overdose of sugar would be far more dangerous, leading not to barely detectable harmful effects, but to sure, immediate death by diabetic coma; yet nobody has proposed to ban the use of sugar in food." ( source: http://www-biba.inrialpes.fr/Jaynes/prob.html http://www-biba.inrialpes.fr/Jaynes/prob.html ) The key fact to remember is that it is the amount of Benzene that matters, not just that it is present.
- davidw 18y ago> irrelevant It's not known if it's relevant or not. It might be, it might not. Without having further information, it's simply impossible to say.
- palish 18y agoWhy is it not known? It seems like an experiment should have already been done. For example, one could arrange an experiment with two groups of rats. The active group R would be administered very low doses of Benzene, whereas the control group C would not. Then, both groups would be studied over a sufficient period of time. If rats from R develop cancer and rats from C don't, then it is known that Benzene does cause cancer at low doses. Otherwise, if the experiment is repeated a sufficient number of times, the chance that Benzene causes cancer in low doses is statistically irrelevant. Our points are the same: it is not generally known whether cancer can actually be caused by low doses of Benzene, so it is detrimental to freak over sensationalist articles like this one. Also, it is especially distasteful to frighten people by claiming that there is some measure of truth ("science") in these inherently unscientific claims.
- jcromartie 18y agoI would like to use this as an opportunity to encourage people to stay away from foods with potassium/sodium benzoate as a preservative. This nasty stuff actually has potential to form benzene in foods. Don't poison yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene_in_soft_drinks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene_in_soft_drinks
- jrockway 18y agoGood advice. My general policy is that if the ingredient isn't in my kitchen, I probably don't want to eat food containing it. In the case of preservatives, it may benefit the company that uses them since their food won't spoil on the shelf -- but it doesn't benefit me in any way. So why risk whatever the long-term effects are when you are not even being rewarded?
- silentbicycle 18y ago"In the case of preservatives, it may benefit the company that uses them since their food won't spoil on the shelf -- but it doesn't benefit me in any way." That's a really good point.
- timr 18y ago"In the case of preservatives, it may benefit the company that uses them since their food won't spoil on the shelf -- but it doesn't benefit me in any way." You only think that way because you've grown up with the luxury of a food supply that is well-protected against a huge number of scourges that were killing significant numbers of people less than a century ago. Without preservatives, a huge number of the foods we take for granted today (such as canned foods) would be impossible to produce. So unless you can/pickle/preserve all of your own vegetables (which still carries a significant risk of botulism), it's pretty difficult to say that preservatives don't benefit you.
- sant0sk1 18y agoMicrosoft's next ad: "Hi, I'm a PC and I won't kill you"
- icky 18y agoLies!
- lst 18y agoOne major question would be: how much can we trust current science? If I had a nickel for all the times I heard that carcinogen argument...
- ulysses 18y agoAs opposed to what, our gut? If I got a nickel every time someone died of cancer, I'd be rich. And probably have a massive guilt complex.
- lst 18y agoScience changes opinion quite often (this is an observed fact). If someone dies because of cancer, you're never sure about the real reason. If used wrong, quite everything may provoke cancer... we all are continuously exposed to so many dangerous things. There isn't even a simple answer to what cancer really is -- it's more the description of a symptom, and not the real cause...
- Retric 18y agoIt's rare for Science to form an opinion let alone for it to change it's opinion. You often hear single study's saying something, but Science only cares about what has been independently verified by several studies. The media presents controversy even with tiny fraction's of the community so that you listen. A classic case in point is "String Theory" which people compare to the "Standard Model" but it's still just an area of research that does not have the acceptance of the community of large. A far more important case is the effects of low levels of radiation on cancer. It's been assumed my some people that there is a linear relationship between the risk of cancer and total radiation but there is still a lot of debate on the topic. In both cased their are competing ideas, but the entrenched idea is just older and unlike evolution or the general theory of relativity it's far from accepted as correct.
- lst 18y agoScience is all done by scientists, and (most/all/?) scientists are humans (so far). For the last 4 centuries, we have seen a continuous increase of science to form peoples' opinion. But science is only science (no joke -- it's the current opinion of most scientists). So, peoples' opinion and science are deeply related.
- maxklein 18y agoWell, I can confirm that my grandfather died 3 months after visiting an apple store. Could this be why?!!?!?
- patrickg-zill 18y agoActually, my research shows that EVERY person who has ever visited an Apple store, will DIE.
- maxklein 18y ago[Citation Needed]
- jimbokun 18y agohttp://www.theonion.com/content/node/39236 http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39236
- KiwiNige 18y agoOxygen is the common link in all these, and every single case of Cancer ever recorded. I can assure you that if you stop breathing now you will not die of cancer (unless you already have a very advanced case).
- Eliezer 18y agoA common misconception. http://cryonics.org/ http://cryonics.org/
- randrews 18y agoThe part I found most interesting is that Mac Pros emit some odor. I've had one for over a year and I haven't noticed anything.
- zach 18y agoRelax. The Smell is just there for the first few months, and its purpose is merely to stimulate certain nerve centers. In time, The Smell's absence leads you subconsciously to buy another new Apple product. Your mind rationalizes these thoughts with respect to the various desirable features and aesthetics of Apple products, but your emotional centers of the brain are merely seeking another experience of The Smell. That was the theory a few guys at work came up with anyhow. I think it has at least as much credence as this article.
- cosmo7 18y agoIf you're concerned, benzene smells like almonds.
- silentbicycle 18y agoAs does hydrogen cyanide. I think it's a good generalization to assume that anything which smells like almonds is toxic unless you're really sure it's actually almonds.
- h34t 18y agoCars also give off loads of nasty fumes (new car smell anyone?). My sister cancelled an order for a Nissan Versa because of its horrible rating on healthycar.org (lists all cars and how bad they are for this) and didn't want to risk it with her newborn.
- akd 18y agoYes, have you ever seen the film that accumulates on the inside windshield of some cars on a very sunny day? It's vaporized and then condensed dashboard material :\
- h34t 18y agoYeah -- nasty stuff, and it keeps accumulating for years. My brother had a '91 Dodge Colt that would always get that film on the windshield.
- shadytrees 18y agoAlso, ripens fruits!
- iigs 18y agoI suspect if your Mac was going to kill you your car already would have. Gasoline (in the USA) can be up to 5% benzene by volume. I don't have numbers, but I suspect that one hot-day fill of your car exposes you to more benzene than anything that an entirely dry piece of personal electronics could outgas, ever.
- silentbicycle 18y agoCigarette smoke is a more direct source of benzene. (Ergo, do not smoke while using a Mac Pro and covered in gasoline.)
- bigthboy 18y agoI am suddenly hit with this image of some mechanic who has a smoking addiction and just got done fixing a car which had a leaking gas tank come in, sit down, light up, and get on a Mac Pro which reaks for some unknown reason... =O
- tlrobinson 18y agoBenzene would certainly be the least of your worries in that case.
- silentbicycle 18y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understatement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understatement
- lutorm 18y agothat's what i was going to say, too. Probably negligible in comparison.
- ars 18y agoIf you smell gas strongly while filling up you are doing it wrong. First some states require vapor recovery, and second you are outside and your nose is not inches from the nozzle - you should not be getting exposed to much of anything.
- deleted 18y ago[deleted]