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I sympathise with the author. Why should one have to put up with mails like this? I understand the argument of being professional, but it's very draining to hav

I sympathise with the author. Why should one have to put up with mails like this? I understand the argument of being professional, but it's very draining to have to absorb personal attacks and ill-mannered outbursts while never being able to respond in kind. Given that the sender didn't provide constructive feedback, is seemingly not contributing financially, and can simply choose to not use the application, I don't see why a response in kind shouldn't be given. To me, Don's response was mild.

nkozyra 4y ago
> I understand the argument of being professional, but it's very draining to have to absorb personal attacks and ill-mannered outbursts while never being able to respond in kind. I used to agonize when I'd get feedback like this, rude or not. It is emotionally draining, but I always tried to extract something from it. As mentioned elsewhere, I've reacted poorly in the past and really regret it. I will point out that this really isn't "in kind." The email response was, but publicly posting it and letting other users know how similar emails will be treated is an escalation.
- Kinrany 4y ago
  In what sense is it an escalation?
  - nkozyra 4y ago
    In the sense that it goes from private communication to public.
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      that would only be true if he named and identified the guy
    - samus 4y ago
      It's a hallmark of entitlement to expect abusive communication to stay private. Not publishing the name is a good idea though.
      - nkozyra 4y ago
        > It's a hallmark of entitlement Please. If you email me - regardless of content - the expectation is we're having private communication.
        samus 4y ago
        When you email me, regardless of topic, the expectation is a minimal level of manners and politeness. Yes, privacy too, but if it is actually a bug report, there is no such expectation because the content could in principle end up in a bug tracker.
- duxup 4y ago
  > but publicly posting it and letting other users know how similar emails will be treated is an escalation That's an escalation? Nobody knows to Tom is so he's all good. Everyone else now knows what the dev puts up with and how they feel about it. Maybe someone knows now that being a jerk over email won't get them what they want? I don't really see any escalation here.
- hypfer 4y ago
  > will be treated is an escalation. Yes but what else should you do? Just let it bottle up inside you? Why? Because you were dumb enough to release software as open source? Does publishing software as open source mean that you have to stop having any emotions?
- luma 4y ago
  I'd call it "setting boundaries". The author has zero reason to accept anyone's bullshit for a passion project that they give away for free. If author wants to put users who do not understand this dynamic on blast, that is 100% understable and I fully support their response. There are a lot of people here who work in a business setting and are conflating the sorts of behaviors that can be expected in a paid setting with those more appropriate to a gratis effort.
vultour 4y ago
There's several people in this thread saying the user did not provide constructive feedback and I disagree. Amongst the emotionally charged venting there's a description of a real struggle the user is encountering while trying to use the software. Yes, they should've opted for a more civilised approach. No, it doesn't discard the issue that they (and possibly others) are experiencing.
- politelemon 4y ago
  Only true if you're expecting the author to behave like a robot and exist without any kind of emotion. I certainly don't see how you would call that constructive in any way. Loose analogy, I don't watch videos of retail workers being abused and think, that customer is providing constructive feedback.
  - vultour 4y ago
    Maybe we just use a different definition of "constructive feedback", but my emotional perception of a comment has nothing to do with the classification. "You suck and your software is a piece of crap" is not constructive feedback because there's no details to act on. "Fuck you the submit button is obscured by the footer" is constructive even if the message has a personal attack. You might choose not to act on comments due to emotions, but I don't think it invalidates any constructive feedback contained within.
    - hatenberg 4y ago
      And this right here is why a large number of engineers never make it pas mid-level. Thinking that the only things that matter are technical and the social aspects of communication are just unnecessary complications
      - scraptor 4y ago
        Understanding the things people are actually telling you without getting distracted by anger is also part of communications. You don't have to engage with the rude users but their problems are just as real.
no_time 4y ago
>Why should one have to put up with mails like this? ...You don't have to. You can write mail filters that send stuff like this straight to spam. I even did it at a workplace. Admittedly, that is a bit more hairy but now I atleast understand why passive aggressiveness was invented.
scotty79 4y ago
> Why should one have to put up with mails like this? I think we should have universal single character symbol for responding to assenine communications (trolling, entitlement, stupidity and such). I propose k Vertical line sybolises the barrier behind which trolling, entitlement and stupidity remains and the rest sybmolises me propping the barrier with my butt while being completely uninterested. You may see it also as last step of evolution that brought us such responses as Ok and kthxbye.
- r3dk1ng 4y ago
  k
hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
I find azure infuriating. What’s worse is they continuously ask for feedback. Do you think they even listen? These days I take every opportunity to fill it out with ‘FIRE YOUR UX TEAMS’
Aeolun 4y ago
> I don't see why a response in kind shouldn't be given Well, it feels good in the moment, but crazy people like this always engage, so you get dragged into an argument that drains your emotional reserves for no benefit.

nkozyra 4y ago

> I understand the argument of being professional, but it's very draining to have to absorb personal attacks and ill-mannered outbursts while never being able to respond in kind. I used to agonize when I'd get feedback like this, rude or not. It is emotionally draining, but I always tried to extract something from it. As mentioned elsewhere, I've reacted poorly in the past and really regret it. I will point out that this really isn't "in kind." The email response was, but publicly posting it and letting other users know how similar emails will be treated is an escalation.

Kinrany 4y ago
In what sense is it an escalation?
- nkozyra 4y ago
  In the sense that it goes from private communication to public.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    that would only be true if he named and identified the guy
  - samus 4y ago
    It's a hallmark of entitlement to expect abusive communication to stay private. Not publishing the name is a good idea though.
    - nkozyra 4y ago
      > It's a hallmark of entitlement Please. If you email me - regardless of content - the expectation is we're having private communication.
      - samus 4y ago
        When you email me, regardless of topic, the expectation is a minimal level of manners and politeness. Yes, privacy too, but if it is actually a bug report, there is no such expectation because the content could in principle end up in a bug tracker.
duxup 4y ago
> but publicly posting it and letting other users know how similar emails will be treated is an escalation That's an escalation? Nobody knows to Tom is so he's all good. Everyone else now knows what the dev puts up with and how they feel about it. Maybe someone knows now that being a jerk over email won't get them what they want? I don't really see any escalation here.
hypfer 4y ago
> will be treated is an escalation. Yes but what else should you do? Just let it bottle up inside you? Why? Because you were dumb enough to release software as open source? Does publishing software as open source mean that you have to stop having any emotions?
luma 4y ago
I'd call it "setting boundaries". The author has zero reason to accept anyone's bullshit for a passion project that they give away for free. If author wants to put users who do not understand this dynamic on blast, that is 100% understable and I fully support their response. There are a lot of people here who work in a business setting and are conflating the sorts of behaviors that can be expected in a paid setting with those more appropriate to a gratis effort.

vultour 4y ago

There's several people in this thread saying the user did not provide constructive feedback and I disagree. Amongst the emotionally charged venting there's a description of a real struggle the user is encountering while trying to use the software. Yes, they should've opted for a more civilised approach. No, it doesn't discard the issue that they (and possibly others) are experiencing.

politelemon 4y ago
Only true if you're expecting the author to behave like a robot and exist without any kind of emotion. I certainly don't see how you would call that constructive in any way. Loose analogy, I don't watch videos of retail workers being abused and think, that customer is providing constructive feedback.
- vultour 4y ago
  Maybe we just use a different definition of "constructive feedback", but my emotional perception of a comment has nothing to do with the classification. "You suck and your software is a piece of crap" is not constructive feedback because there's no details to act on. "Fuck you the submit button is obscured by the footer" is constructive even if the message has a personal attack. You might choose not to act on comments due to emotions, but I don't think it invalidates any constructive feedback contained within.
  - hatenberg 4y ago
    And this right here is why a large number of engineers never make it pas mid-level. Thinking that the only things that matter are technical and the social aspects of communication are just unnecessary complications
    - scraptor 4y ago
      Understanding the things people are actually telling you without getting distracted by anger is also part of communications. You don't have to engage with the rude users but their problems are just as real.

no_time 4y ago

>Why should one have to put up with mails like this? ...You don't have to. You can write mail filters that send stuff like this straight to spam. I even did it at a workplace. Admittedly, that is a bit more hairy but now I atleast understand why passive aggressiveness was invented.

scotty79 4y ago

> Why should one have to put up with mails like this? I think we should have universal single character symbol for responding to assenine communications (trolling, entitlement, stupidity and such). I propose k Vertical line sybolises the barrier behind which trolling, entitlement and stupidity remains and the rest sybmolises me propping the barrier with my butt while being completely uninterested. You may see it also as last step of evolution that brought us such responses as Ok and kthxbye.

r3dk1ng 4y ago
k

hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago

I find azure infuriating. What’s worse is they continuously ask for feedback. Do you think they even listen? These days I take every opportunity to fill it out with ‘FIRE YOUR UX TEAMS’

Aeolun 4y ago

> I don't see why a response in kind shouldn't be given Well, it feels good in the moment, but crazy people like this always engage, so you get dragged into an argument that drains your emotional reserves for no benefit.