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Two people in Tesla killed after crashing into parked semi at Florida rest stop
- Pakdef 4y agoso much for FSD...
- cheeze 4y agoLevel3 next year! (ignore that he's said this for like 10 years in a row now)
- dr_kiszonka 4y agoIt has to be a nerve-wracking job when a bug in your code / algo can cause deaths.
- bluescrn 4y agoAt least bugs in regular control systems can be identified and fixed, with high confidence that the problem has been resolved. If the system is heavily based on machine learning, there may be no such code bugs or algorithmic mistakes to find, no easy way to show exactly what went wrong and why a fix will prevent it from happening again.
- epgui 4y agoSounds very similar to what happens when a human makes a mistake. How do we know that wasn't the case here?
- Flankk 4y agoTesla computer vision is done using neural networks. The tech has migrated to make driving decisions using neural nets as well. The code is basically just an artifact used to create a digital mind. However, it's possible that digital mind is operating vehicles at the level of a chimpanzee.
- epgui 4y agoWhere did you see any indication that FSD was used?
- oittaa 4y agoThese TSLAQ idiots get more desperate every year. 2015 Model S literally cannot have the current Autopilot or FSD systems.
- creato 4y agoThe picture is confusing, it seems like the truck is on the highway, until I realized that this is probably here: https://goo.gl/maps/sK9CRov2YQijCiXU9 https://goo.gl/maps/sK9CRov2YQijCiXU9 How the hell the Tesla managed to hit a truck at what looks like highway speeds there is hard to imagine. If this was an FSD or autopilot failure, it would be by far the most egregious I’ve seen.
- jader201 4y agoThis is exactly what I was thinking, and why I think it’s bigger news (vs. me just hearing about it a day later via non-HN sources).
- ncmncm 4y agoIt is so common it is not news anymore? I am intensely curious what really does happen if you try to get a refund for FSD. (That, whether or not this was actually an FSD event.) Presumably, you signed some BS about arbitration, so you go to arbitration. What then? Maybe their tame arbitrator says "f** off", so then you sue. Does Tesla contest it, or pay? If not, and it goes to court, does Tesla default and get ordered to pay? Has anybody got a judge to order treble damages, for bad faith and for making you need to go to court just to get back what you paid for what they utterly failed to deliver? It seems like there could be a specialty in suing Tesla for refusing a refund. And, there must be a fair number of cases either settled or adjudicated already.
- rasz 4y agoMost likely just the threat of suing will get you a refund under NDA.
- defrost 4y agoTesla auto-pilot is simply just "not smart" .. despite all the hype it is functionally not much more than a scaled up "white line following" feedback circuit. From the map it likely followed the traffic sweep in feeder to the rest stop and identified the parked vehicles as traffic ahead on what was assumed to be a highway. By my understanding many Tesla models lack Lidar for ranging and speed estimates and operate solely on relatively limited PoV vision cameras.
- whiplash451 4y agoIf FSD was active, this is it.
- ericraio 4y agoIf we assume that this was FSD, why would the driver not take control if the car is exiting the interstate?
- kwhitefoot 4y agoWhy would we make that assumption? It isn't mentioned anywhere in the article and FSD Tesla's, despite the hype and publicity, are a tiny fraction of the Model S's on the road.
- bobsmooth 4y agoWhat a grisly photo.
- philliphaydon 4y agoWow that's quite a shocking picture of the crash. It's hard to imagine how FSD could screw up that badly.
- kwhitefoot 4y agoAnother commenter claims that the car is a 2015 model. If this is correct that car doesn't have FSD. 2015 Model S is AutoPilot 1.5 by MobilEye. I have one and it is very good at what it does although it cannot 'see' stationary objects very well. But it cannot autonomously change lanes or turn off the highway into the rest area (Navigate on Autopilot only applies to later versions of Autopilot). So even if Autosteer was engaged there was almost certainly a human error or miscalculation in the chain of events. Perhaps the driver had a heart attack and pressed the accelerator. There is far too little information available for us on the outside to make confident pronouncements about what actually happened and who, if anyone, might be at fault.
- philliphaydon 4y agoAhh ok, thanks for the info. In any case with FSD or autopilot, I don't think anyone should ever take their eyes off the road while in the drivers seat.
- baskethead 4y agoHow is Tesla stock still so high? Its market cap is $750B with a tiny amount of cars sold, Elon is ruining his reputation on a month over month basis, he gives his laid off workers one-week salary, and his stock price goes up with impunity. It's incredible!
- localhost 4y agoThis was a 2015 Model S by the looks of it, so no FSD. Likely the MobilEye AP system if that was being used at time of crash.
- pengaru 4y agoGives new meaning to words emblazoned across the trailer's doors. TRSLA
- influx 4y agoHow would you feel as an engineer if this was your post mortem report?
- epgui 4y agoI think I would need a bit more detail than this. Most such accidents happen because of human error. There is no indication that there was a software or hardware issue, at this time.
- Tepix 4y agoJust to nitpick: Human error during programming is still human error. I realize this car didn't have "FSD" so i don't even know why it appears on HN.
- epgui 4y agoI agree, but just to be clear, when I said "human error" I was referring to errors that may have been committed by the operator of the vehicle. I think "operator error" would be everyone's default assumption for any other make of vehicle, or if the make had not been mentioned.
- __alexs 4y agoOne of the few times that describing a software incident as a post mortem might be appropriate.
- NSMyself 4y agoJust a reminder that nowhere in the article is FSD mentioned. For all we know it could have been human error. If it was indeed an FSD failure then that’d be unacceptable. Regulations need to be tightenedt at the very least, Tesla fined heavily and FSD banned I suppose. But we are not there yet; let’s wait and see
- phtrivier 4y agoSure. However, using the words "Tesla" and "crash" in the title of an article is a surefire way to get traffic. (Exhibit A: the conversation we're having.) At least, the article is pretty factual, and does not had any inuendo about FSD. I would like to know who is conducting the investigation, though (how much is done by the police, how much by automotive regulatory body, how much by Telsa itself, etc...) Thoughts go to the family of the people inside the car, and to the people investigating.
- epgui 4y agoThe article seems very factual and well-written. What worries me are the comments on here. There's clearly a very strong bias at play in the hacker news community (regardless of what one ought to think of Tesla or Elon).
- me_me_me 4y ago>However, using the words "Tesla" and "crash" in the title of an article is a surefire way to get traffic. You reap what you sow. Tesla created hype environment and now pays for the bullseye they painted on their forehead
- jillesvangurp 4y agoEven if it was on, failing to act would be the problem because you are supposed to pay attention while it is on. So, it's by definition a human error. And with some drivers being a danger to themselves and others, you might legitimately wonder if fsd wouldn't be the better alternative. People die every day on roads. Mostly because they are being people and get drunk, tired, distracted, reckless, etc. It's very likely the driver ticked one or more of these boxes. The simple explanations are usually the right ones.
- niemandhier 4y agoBetter get a mercedes. https://insideevs.com/news/584686/mercedes-level-3-autonomous-tech-launch-germany/ https://insideevs.com/news/584686/mercedes-level-3-autonomou...
- epgui 4y agoHow would that have helped in this specific situation? I fail to see the relevance.
- whiplash451 4y agoThe truck seems to be white again…