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Homeland security workers indicted in scheme to silence China critics in U.S.
- ncmncm 4y agoToday I learned that the Department of Homeland Security runs Emergency Relief Operations in Minneapolis, Minnesota where they have assigned a Deportation Officer. Why does an Emergency Relief Operation need a Deportation Officer? It seems like we need, more than ever, to disband and disarm Border Control. Maybe make a new agency, and forbid it to hire anyone at all from the old snakepit.
- bequanna 4y agoI would guess this is due to the large Somali population in Minneapolis. I don’t know how recent, but in the past there have been issues where Somalis in MN were discovered assisting, directly funding, attempting to join ISIS.
- kube-system 4y agoI hadn't heard of this... to save people a search: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minneapolis-community-struggles-with-isis-recruiting-tactics/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minneapolis-community-struggles... > A new report by Congress says more than 250 Americans have attempted to join ISIS, and one in four of them is from Minnesota
- hobo_in_library 4y agoThat is a very strong sounding approach to deal with just 250/4 = ~63 people from one state Most of whom were probably never actually going to go through with it anyways
- kube-system 4y agoYes, ~63 people from a single terrorist group, according to a single report, back in 2015. DHS obviously has more than one job. I mean, we're also talking about a place with the 30th busiest airport on the planet, with an international border, and a large international port. Of course the federal law enforcement agency tasked with enforcing laws regarding those activities has an office there.
- ncmncm 4y agoI have learned to take judgments from DHS about people's intentions with great and well-deserved skepticism. It is common and normal for Muslims to join together in study groups, and we have numerous published examples of FBI coercing people to join and then try to radicalize these groups so that they can be labeled terrorists. Sometimes the FBI even supplied weapons. Most members of any of these groups have no interest in violence, but all get tarred for membership if any do. It is routine for law enforcement to lie, and to coerce people under their control to lie, to serve whatever narrative their boss somewhere up the line has constructed. It is not exceptional: they consider this their job.
- worik 4y agoPrejudice. When providing aid involving police that want to attack the very people you are providing aid to (most of whom are legal, black African with weird sounding accents, they smell funny because they eat different food from you and they speak a language you do not understand, but they are in your country legally, mostly) is evil. Racist and evil
- bequanna 4y agoOf course most immigrants are law-abiding and good citizens. I think most of us know that. The challenge is that this specific group in this specific location has an outsized number of people that are aiding terrorist organizations. It is pry worth trying to figure out why. But also, it would be irresponsible if our govt didn’t allocate resources to try and stop that.
- worik 4y ago> The challenge is that this specific group in this specific location has an outsized number of people that are aiding terrorist organizations. Racism
- dontcare007 4y agoHow so?
- wolverine876 4y ago> this specific group in this specific location has an outsized number of people that are aiding terrorist organizations Can you back that up with anything at all? That is a very dangerous accusation, and obviously plays to prejudice and racism regardless of intentions. It seems it should be stated very specifically and with clear evidence. Edit: Someone else posted an article. I still think that nobody should make claims like that without being specific and having evidence. 64 people do not indict an entire community. What does the OP imply about DHS, for example? > most immigrants are law-abiding and good citizens Most people are law-abiding and good citizens, but some are not. It has nothing to do with immigration status. I happen to think that all people were created equal, regardless of where they were born.
- wolverine876 4y agoIf it only takes a few bad actors, everyone in the US would be condemned by guilt by association. We are responsible for our own acts, not people who look like us (imagine what that would mean for US-born people with white skin!). I think a claim against anyone and especially any group of people needs to be supported by clear evidence. It's too dangerous and easy to demonize some outsider group, and we've seen a long history of horrible outcomes for innocent people. There is much more reason to suspect problems at DHS, given the OP.
- ncmncm 4y agoThis.
- thrown321 4y ago
- akamaka 4y agoIt’s probably just an editing mistake. In a different part of the document, it says the same person works for Enforcement and Removal Operations in Minneapolis, which could also be abbreviated to ERO.
- classichasclass 4y agoThat's exactly what it is. ERO is a branch of ICE.
- walrus01 4y ago> There are two new defendants charged in the scheme, Craig Miller and Derrick Taylor I want to know how much money it cost the PRC to buy these guys. Doubt they were doing it for ideological reasons in the usual MICE (money, ideology, conscience, ego) formula.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoIt's not always money. They could have leverage in other ways. Evidence of crimes, blackmail, evidence of an affair, etc.
- daniel-cussen 4y agoThe C in MICE usually stands for coercion. Conscience would fall under ideology.
- AnimalMuppet 4y agoCompromise, IIRC. That's the "evidence of crimes, blackmail, evidence of an affair" part.
- sidlls 4y agoMost spies and subversives of this sort do it for the thrill, and because they think they can get away with it. The "leverage" you describe is sometimes employed, but it's not usually the critical factor in their decision to do this kind of thing. That's also why the money or other benefits involved often seems low for the acts committed.
- georgeburdell 4y agoNot a lawyer, but is the alleged silencing action in the title illegal? The surveillance equipment installation, the bribery, and the lying perhaps are
- kube-system 4y agoIt's the method of silencing that often becomes problematic. Shushing someone is legal. Harassing, intimidating, destroying property, etc are usually not. It looks like the charges were: > Conspiracy To Act as Agents of a Foreign Government > Conspiracy To Engage in Interstate Harassment > Misuse of Means of Identification > Conspiracy to Bribe a Public Official > Attempt To Obstruct Justice > Obstruction of Justice > False Statement
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- syspec 4y ago> Miller granted consent and ultimately admitted that he had run the queries for Taylor and sent the results to Taylor via text message, and that Taylor had provided a gift card in return. Wow it just blows.my.mind. that that is all it takes!
- walrus01 4y agogift cards, not just for offshore black market call centers running "Pay the IRS in gift card" scams anymore. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm22FAXZMw1BaWeFszZxUKw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm22FAXZMw1BaWeFszZxUKw
- thrown321 4y agoHey man McDonald’s takes Alipay!
- thaumasiotes 4y agoThat only makes sense. There are McDonald's in China, so they already need the capability. Why bother shutting it off outside China? There are Chinese tourists in most places. The system is often more reliable than the staff. I bought a gift card from IKEA in China and wanted to see what would happen if I tried to use it in the US. It worked fine, in theory. But when I asked the American cashier how much was on my card, she happily reported to me that it was $100. (It wasn't; it was ¥100.) The receipt she gave me, though, correctly listed ¥100.
- twoxproblematic 4y ago
- 99_00 4y agoBy default, China considers all ethnic Chinese to be Chinese nationals. >In regards to the de facto practices of the Chinese government, Kris Cheng wrote in Foreign Affairs that "Beijing presents nationality as an elaborate legal question, but in practice the answer is simple. Only one rule applies: If you have ever held or could have held Chinese citizenship, you are a Chinese national unless Beijing decides you are not. And even if you were born abroad but you're of Chinese descent, Beijing still feels as if it owns you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_nationality_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_nationality_law China also requires all Chinese nationals to spy when asked. >As long as national intelligence institutions are operating within their proper authorities, they may, according to Article 14, “request relevant organs, organisations, and citizens provide necessary support, assistance, and cooperation”. https://www.canada.ca/en/security-intelligence-service/corporate/publications/china-and-the-age-of-strategic-rivalry/chinas-intelligence-law-and-the-countrys-future-intelligence-competitions.html https://www.canada.ca/en/security-intelligence-service/corpo...
- resoluteteeth 4y agoI think one problem is that there aren't really treaties with rules on multiple citizenship or really the criteria for citizenship in general that would prevent a country from refusing to allow you to renounce your citizenship, so if a country has some basis and incentive to consider you a citizen under its rules, there isn't really anything stopping it from doing so.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago> By default, China considers all ethnic Chinese to be Chinese nationals. That is not true at all since: > If you have ever held or could have held Chinese citizenship, you are a Chinese national unless Beijing decides you are not. So a an ethnic Han or Kejia who was born and grew up in Malaysia is ethnically considered Chinese, but the PRC has no claim that they might be a Chinese citizen. > And even if you were born abroad but you're of Chinese descent, Beijing still feels as if it owns you. The only case where that can happen is if one of your parents has Chinese citizenship when you are born abroad, and even then it supposedly doesn't count if they have permanent residency in another country (e.g. my kid is supposedly not a PRC citizen because I'm American and mom has a US greencard). But this isn't clear and all you can do is try to get a Chinese visa; if decided to be a citizen of China and another country, kids have to renounce one or the other when they are 18 (but they can't do that before, there make easy exceptions for people like Eileen Gu for dual citizenship because China doesn't really have rule of law, so they can make it up as they go along).
- maerF0x0 4y agoIs it just me or have there been a spat of such kinds of China f'king with American kinds of revelations? What is the reason that Governments put up with this kind of thing?
- joecool1029 4y ago> "Sun is a PRC-based employee of an international technology company" So is he indicted because this company is also located in the US? Or is it typically normal for foreign agents to be indicted if they are not in the US and working on behalf of another government? EDIT: Asking because it seems weird for someone working for their own government in their own country to be indicted for doing their job by a different country. Isn't that normally a diplomatic problem between countries?
- xwolfi 4y agoWell that's where there is a definite tension with the US for sure. I'm French and in Hong Kong: in both France and Hong Kong we've seen instances of maybe exagerated outreach by the US into things maybe we should be left trying then failing on our own so we learn. Instead we're left thinking, and it's prevalent opinion in HK among people who stayed, that the US maybe was behind our troubles when really they're just unable to resist giving their holy opinion on everything, something I can admit France is accused of often in other places. Ofc here, the guy was not just doing his job in China, he extended his reach into the US and it feels fair game. But, you point out to something that annoys me a little bit abt the US !
- wolverine876 4y agoThis should raise serious questions about DHS. Who are they employing? How are they trained? How are they preventing abuse of power? What is the culture there? Under the prior administration, DHS acted brutally, in many cases. What happened to correct that culture?
- tomohawk 4y agoJust the prior admin? During the one before that, they were putting kids in cages. It took the last admin a couple of years to get that stopped. Agree that the DHS is out of control and should be disbanded.
- throwaway392032 4y agoWell here is the CIA hiring video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHckeZoYx04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHckeZoYx04 After watching it I assume China will be invading Taiwan in the next year.
- collegeburner 4y agoWhat in the cinnamon toast fuck. It's literally the meme about bombing middle eastern kids with pride flag drones. Somebody please explain to the CIA we don't want performative wokie bullshit just for them to stop torturing black bagging and murdering and selling crack and abusing ppls rights.
- salt-thrower 4y ago
- remarkEon 4y agoIf you squint hard enough, you can imagine a scenario where CIA actually wants to hire people with anxiety and other mood/psychological disorders to that they can be more easily controlled. It's Machiavellian but, well, this is CIA we're talking about.
- spamizbad 4y ago
- baskethead 4y agoHow many more tens of thousands of government employees are on the payroll of foreign governments?
- ch4s3 4y agoJust another reason DHS shouldn’t exist and was a mistake in the aftermath of 9/11. [*edit] if you disagree, I’d love to hear your justification for the existence of DHS.
- _HMCB_ 4y agoEvery move the Chinese government makes should be scrutinized to the finest detail. They have but one goal: complete control of key parts of world infrastructure. See what’s happening in the Indo-Pacific. Most media is asleep at the wheel.
- fithisux 4y agoSo the preference is West dictatorship vs East dictatorship?
- floodle 4y agoThat's a false dichotomy if I ever saw one.
- ausbah 4y agomaybe not always dictatorships, but the US definitely does has a history of promoting regime change in its interests. backing unpopular dictators is a good chunk of that https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in...
- merek 4y agoWho are the Western dictators?
- SV_BubbleTime 4y agoIt’s not just IndoPacific. Sure; I saw more empty shopping malls in Malaysia than anywhere else. Chinese built and just waiting. But there are massive road projects in Costa Rica complete with Chinese heavy machines and marked lumber. Same in South Africa and I watched Chinese contractors doing surveying in Eswatini. Apparently in Costa Rica at least; these workers are there for year or two contracts, then are given citizenship and their families brought over, they live in gov housing camps that look like prisons and should have saved enough money in their time to open a store or start a business. It’s not JUST owning infrastructure. It’s a long term agreement these countries are making with China.
- bhk 4y agoA DHS officer and a DHS agent leak restricted information on US persons and all they get charged on is lying about it? > Miller and Taylor procured and disseminated sensitive and confidential information from a restricted federal law enforcement database regarding U.S.-based dissidents from the PRC. > The charges against Miller and Taylor pertain to their alleged obstruction of justice...
- ck2 4y agoSomething I've oddly noticed more than once in forums is some negative mention of China, some random person (bot? slave?) will show up and tell people to stop being racist. Maybe with unrivaled manpower that kind of stealth campaign is possible but it would like fighting the incoming tide. But really, who thinks anyone has any say over China, they are going to do whatever they want, when they come for Taiwan nothing will be done in the end.
- dirtyid 4y agoTBH, pretty lame PRC spooks need to to rely on US databases to target dissidents. Assuming these are actual dissidents and not PRC/CCDI most wanted list, i.e. extrememly corrupt ex-nationals who fled abroad with their riches.
- kart23 4y agothis stuff is freaky. at college when the hk protests were at their height, some taiwanese students put up a public art display to raise awareness about the protests and the chinese government. the very next day, it was gone, apparently torn down overnight by a group of chinese students. We shouldn’t have tolerance for people silencing speech, especially here in our own country.
- tjpnz 4y agoAnother data point on what a New Zealand Fulbright scholar endured at Cornell: https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300544537/concerns-after-nz-uyghur-fulbright-scholar-subjected-to-walkout-bullying-at-us-university https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300544537/concerns-after-nz-u...
- yalogin 4y agoWow. The extent to which China goes to silence it’s critics is scary. I cannot believe the kind of effort and coordination it takes to bribe people in the dhs and then buy the victims car and workplace. This cannot be the first time, I am sure they have it figured out like a well oiled machine. On the other hand, I am glad the US government was able to catch this and prevent it. To be honest I was beginning to question our ability to bring people to justice particularly at the federal level.
- rob_c 4y agoWhy does this read like yet another case of the People's Republic using bad faith actors to infiltrate the West for their own gain? If only several groups had been warning about undue influence within society starting at an educational level and planning out. No, those groups were evil doomsayers, it can't be that they were right... There can't be a history of this in recent years. There can't other stories and people arrested or deported for military espionage and spying... Must be the evil courts not respecting their culture.... </sarcasm>
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- MetroWind 4y agoAh so the US is becoming China.
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