5 ms·

So all cars will be susceptible to "phantom braking" due to a bug or worse? I really dislike this, and living in the third world I can already imagine fake road

by lvass 4y ago

So all cars will be susceptible to "phantom braking" due to a bug or worse? I really dislike this, and living in the third world I can already imagine fake road signs being used to decelerate and rob cars.

cptaj 4y ago
I live in a dictatorship where we have military road stops everywhere. Screw these features.
- kspacewalk2 4y ago
  Sounds like having the theoretical ability to disobey those stops and drive super-fast through them will buy you very little. That's a kind of freedom you only get to exercise once in your life.
ThatGeoGuy 4y ago
I'm not sure why this is the consistent take. We have e-scooters and bikes with limiters on speed, why would this be materially different than cars? It's not like it needs to slam on the brake, it just needs to disengage acceleration past a certain speed. This isn't new grounds for tech and it is _currently_ deployed on our streets. I'm not sure what the panic over this is, if anything this is a good thing - why should passenger vehicles go 200+ km/h anyways? Why isn't a more reasonable limit imposed, for cars that spend 99% of their time in an urban centre? What actual road is engineered to even support that kind of speed?
- worewood 4y ago
  The limits on ebikes are to prevent battery and motor overheating and catching fire.
  - imtringued 4y ago
    No they are purely regulatory. Most S pedelects are just pedelecs whose software limit was unlocked.
  - NoPicklez 4y ago
    And the limits that could be imposed on cars are to prevent people from crashing and killing others and exceeding the speed limit. I don't see the difference, they're both valid reasons to reduce speed.
    - behringer 4y ago
      Because I tell machines what to do. I don't take orders from a computer.
      - atoav 4y ago
        It is not an order. You tell it what to do and it responds with: "No". To the benefit of the rest of us who have to live with what you "tell" to machines.
        mrmanner 4y ago
        It’s not even that it says “no”, in most cases it will be you tell it what to do and it does that while flashing a light on the dashboard to indicate that it may be illegal
      - imtringued 4y ago
        The orders come from humans and the machine is informing you that you are breaking the law.
  - palmetieri2000 4y ago
    Absolutely incorrect at least in Australia, they are entirely to manage speed in pedestrian areas.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    and violating local laws
- koonsolo 4y ago
  Let's do a joke where we go on the highway, and some people in the back pull out a painted sign with (30). Camera of the car behind you detects it and breaks. I can see such shenanigans happening.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    You seem to think that car manufacturers are extremely stupid
    - koonsolo 4y ago
      No I think that AI roadsign recognition is extremely stupid.
      - solarkraft 4y ago
        Thus you can assume it won't be relied on or its flaws will be adequately mitigated.
        koonsolo 4y ago
        One of the most important things I learned during my short 43 years of life: Assumption is the mother of all fuckups. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg4trPZFUwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg4trPZFUwc
bathtub365 4y ago
Where do you see that in the article? It doesn’t mention anything about braking.
- theodorejb 4y ago
  > When ISA detects the car is over the limit, it may induce visual and audible warnings, as well as haptic feedback through the steering wheel or throttle pedal, or it may begin accelerating the vehicle if no action is taken.
  - mrmanner 4y ago
    The article wasn’t very clear around this, but it’s not that every car must have automatic deceleration, it’s one way out of four car makers may implement this: > The ISA regulation provides four options for systems feedback to the driver, from which car manufacturers will be free to choose from: > • Cascaded acoustic warning > • Cascaded vibrating warning > • Haptic feedback through the acceleration pedal > • Speed control function https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge/media-and-press/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-set-become-mandatory-across_en https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge...
atoav 4y ago
I imagine it would work by GPS (at least in Europe the speed limit of most roads can even be displayed in google maps). Also: your motor/brakes are likely already controlled by software. Whether a speed limit is bolted onto that software or not doesn't make a lot of difference.
mrmanner 4y ago
> So all cars will be susceptible to "phantom braking" due to a bug or worse? No, there’s no requirement to connect the ISA system to the brakes or throttle

by lvass 4y ago

cptaj 4y ago

I live in a dictatorship where we have military road stops everywhere. Screw these features.

kspacewalk2 4y ago
Sounds like having the theoretical ability to disobey those stops and drive super-fast through them will buy you very little. That's a kind of freedom you only get to exercise once in your life.

ThatGeoGuy 4y ago

I'm not sure why this is the consistent take. We have e-scooters and bikes with limiters on speed, why would this be materially different than cars? It's not like it needs to slam on the brake, it just needs to disengage acceleration past a certain speed. This isn't new grounds for tech and it is _currently_ deployed on our streets. I'm not sure what the panic over this is, if anything this is a good thing - why should passenger vehicles go 200+ km/h anyways? Why isn't a more reasonable limit imposed, for cars that spend 99% of their time in an urban centre? What actual road is engineered to even support that kind of speed?

worewood 4y ago
The limits on ebikes are to prevent battery and motor overheating and catching fire.
- imtringued 4y ago
  No they are purely regulatory. Most S pedelects are just pedelecs whose software limit was unlocked.
- NoPicklez 4y ago
  And the limits that could be imposed on cars are to prevent people from crashing and killing others and exceeding the speed limit. I don't see the difference, they're both valid reasons to reduce speed.
  - behringer 4y ago
    Because I tell machines what to do. I don't take orders from a computer.
    - atoav 4y ago
      It is not an order. You tell it what to do and it responds with: "No". To the benefit of the rest of us who have to live with what you "tell" to machines.
      - mrmanner 4y ago
        It’s not even that it says “no”, in most cases it will be you tell it what to do and it does that while flashing a light on the dashboard to indicate that it may be illegal
    - imtringued 4y ago
      The orders come from humans and the machine is informing you that you are breaking the law.
- palmetieri2000 4y ago
  Absolutely incorrect at least in Australia, they are entirely to manage speed in pedestrian areas.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  and violating local laws
koonsolo 4y ago
Let's do a joke where we go on the highway, and some people in the back pull out a painted sign with (30). Camera of the car behind you detects it and breaks. I can see such shenanigans happening.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  You seem to think that car manufacturers are extremely stupid
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    No I think that AI roadsign recognition is extremely stupid.
    - solarkraft 4y ago
      Thus you can assume it won't be relied on or its flaws will be adequately mitigated.
      - koonsolo 4y ago
        One of the most important things I learned during my short 43 years of life: Assumption is the mother of all fuckups. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg4trPZFUwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg4trPZFUwc

bathtub365 4y ago

Where do you see that in the article? It doesn’t mention anything about braking.

theodorejb 4y ago
> When ISA detects the car is over the limit, it may induce visual and audible warnings, as well as haptic feedback through the steering wheel or throttle pedal, or it may begin accelerating the vehicle if no action is taken.
- mrmanner 4y ago
  The article wasn’t very clear around this, but it’s not that every car must have automatic deceleration, it’s one way out of four car makers may implement this: > The ISA regulation provides four options for systems feedback to the driver, from which car manufacturers will be free to choose from: > • Cascaded acoustic warning > • Cascaded vibrating warning > • Haptic feedback through the acceleration pedal > • Speed control function https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge/media-and-press/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-set-become-mandatory-across_en https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge...

atoav 4y ago

I imagine it would work by GPS (at least in Europe the speed limit of most roads can even be displayed in google maps). Also: your motor/brakes are likely already controlled by software. Whether a speed limit is bolted onto that software or not doesn't make a lot of difference.

mrmanner 4y ago

> So all cars will be susceptible to "phantom braking" due to a bug or worse? No, there’s no requirement to connect the ISA system to the brakes or throttle