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I sure wish Starlink supported IPv6. They're a brand new ISP planning for millions of customers and decided from the start they couldn't get enough IPv4 address
by NelsonMinar 4y ago
I sure wish Starlink supported IPv6. They're a brand new ISP planning for millions of customers and decided from the start they couldn't get enough IPv4 addresses for everyone. Fair enough! But we're stuck with Carrier Grade NAT and it is a drag.
On Starlink it's impossible to host a server socket directly, which makes any peer to peer networking a PITA. Geocoding IP addresses doesn't work so I have to bend over backwards to convince, say, Youtube TV that I'm in the Sacramento metro and not LA where the POP is. Also the shared IP addresses seem to trip a lot of DDOS protection; I fill out 10x as many CAPTCHAs on Starlink as I do on my other ISP. And I sometimes get random network stability problems; a few weeks ago Starlink screwed something up so no one could keep a persistent connection up more than a few minutes. Seems to be fixed now, but I bet it was their CGNAT system.
I realize half the world lives with CGNAT. It's not unusable, at least web browsing works more or less. But IPv6 would solve all these problems. A little surprised that a new ISP created in 2021 wouldn't have IPv6 support as one of their launch features. There's hints they are trying to get it working but it's not an official thing now. Some discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/tjr90n/starlink_ipv6_in_2022/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/tjr90n/starlink_i...
- sneak 4y agoGet a raspberry pi, set up two vlans, run wireguard, and send 100% of your uplink traffic to a remote vpn endpoint. This gets you off their IP, and also has the added benefit of not letting them analyze your traffic.
- NelsonMinar 4y agoAnd adds 20ms+ latency, another complex point of failure, and potential problems depending on the reputation of the IP address block of wherever you're hosting the endpoint. I've used VPNs to smooth over various Starlink problems since I got the service and it helps but it's not a great solution.
- stereo 4y agoMy he.net ipv6 tunnel adds about 2ms of latency on average, which I can totally live with.
- BenjiWiebe 4y agoCan you use that over a CGNAT?
- idatum 4y agoMost likely you wouldn't with CGNAT, unfortunately, at least I can't see how. They need to ping your IPv4 address to set up. As an aside, they also want to ping your IPv6 daily (at least in my logs) to keep the tunnel alive; otherwise quite stable. I'm fortunate to not have to deal with CGNAT. But still waiting for IPv6. A he.net tunnel works for now for what I need: stable IPv6 for SSH tunneling from my IPv6 mobile.
- Volundr 4y agoAt least when I was doing this, it also meant that I blocked Netflix and a few other services for my entire network.
- sneak 4y agoThere is no other solution that doesn’t allow SpaceX to snoop on all your traffic, unfortunately.
- p1mrx 4y agoHaving a non-residential IP address is likely to get you blocked from services like Netflix. It would be nice if there were some way to decouple connectivity from addressing, without becoming a second-class citizen of the internet.
- imtringued 4y agoI don't use Netflix but that never happened to me.
- ineedasername 4y agoI'd go so far as to say that it's actually never happened to anyone that doesn't use Netflix.
- samatman 4y agoI can't tell if this is a 'by definition' comment or if you mean that Netflix is the only major service which blocks VPN IPs. The latter isn't quite true, sometimes a site is having a bad day and sets up Cloudflare rules which make VPN access impractical or impossible, but it's more true than not: I can usually use Netflix off a VPN, just not consistently.
- sneak 4y agoA good way is to refuse to give money to such services, which being unable to access them, dovetails nicely. Incidentally this also makes torrenting safe, and everything on Netflix can be downloaded via BitTorrent.
- NelsonMinar 4y agoThat's an interesting point. I wonder what Starlink is doing with any DMCA complaints aimed at IP address traffic.
- novok 4y ago4K high bitrate HDR / dolby vision + dolby atmos is surprisingly a pain to find in general.
- sgt 4y agoWhy two VLAN's? Are you worried the traffic is analyzed by the ISP locally?
- bluehatbrit 4y agoOddly the hardest part of this right now is getting your hands on a raspberry pi!
- sgtnoodle 4y agoYou can get wireguard running on any consumer network appliance capable of running OpenWRT.
- ineedasername 4y agoWhen I use a VPN I get significantly more CAPTCHAs.
- mordae 4y agoA local ISP told me that they want to get into IPv6 as soon as possible. NATs are getting costly and moving just YouTube traffic to IPv6 would actually help a lot. The problem is with end user devices that do not use a stable DUID and when the client hits the reset button, it changes. We are probably going to work around this by responding from the closest hop and taking the MAC into account.
- neilalexander 4y agoWhy should an unstable DUID matter? The prefix won't change.
- fulafel 4y agoWhat besides presenting the same DUID would cause you to get the same prefix again?
- neilalexander 4y agoThe host portion of the address changes. The prefix doesn’t.
- fulafel 4y agoThe prefix delegated to you does change in many consumer ISP setups, like the upthread poster reported and I've seen in many cases in well, I think repeating your assertion doesn't really advance your argument. Are you thinking of a scenario where the ISP customers share a single prefix? This would be contrary to all the estabilished best practices and deployment guidance for IPv6 since it wouldn't let you easily subnet. And may get the ISP in trouble with your RIR since it's just extorting customers for access to v6 addresses.
- Unklejoe 4y agoCould it be based on whatever physical port you’re attached to on the ISP’s network?
- 4y ago
- ineedasername 4y ago>I fill out 10x as many CAPTCHAs This a feature, not a bug. You can now identify a traffic light on a subconscious level 3x further away than the average driver that has an assigned IPv4. Where average drivers hesitate upon seeing a yellow light, wondering if they have enough time to go or not, you just know that a slight uptick in speed will get you through the intersection right as that yellow flashes over to red.
- NelsonMinar 4y agoThe downside is every time I don't identify one of the squares containing a bicycle, somewhere a self-driving car claims another victim.
- Xeoncross 4y agoshoot! now you tell me
- vegetablepotpie 4y agoThat’s a non-sequitur argument. Simply because your parent comment can identify the state of lights faster does not make them any faster at deciding whether to cross them because it doesn’t influence them to make different decisions based on the speed of their vehicle and then distance from the light.
- gregschlom 4y agoit was a joke
- blooalien 4y agoThis is 2022. Humor is verboten. You're cancelled.
- drdaeman 4y agoWait, so that's how Elon is now training his autopilot? :)
- oxplot 4y agoAll your criticism is valid in the long run but right now, SpaceX'es focus is to scale up, focus on usability for majority of its customers and become profitable. Removing any unnecessary feature is a must in order to reduce risk.
- the_biot 4y agoWhere did you get that information?
- oxplot 4y agoFrom Elon Musk in numerous interviews. Latest of which is with Tim Dodd.
- xxpor 4y agoCGNAT itself is a enormous risk. It's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more complex and unstable than v6.
- oxplot 4y ago> CGNAT itself is a enormous risk. How? IPv6 isn't a substitution for CGNAT, it's an addition to it. You either have to keep CGNAT or replace it with dedicated IPv4 for each customer. Dedicated IPv4 is most likely too costly given the limited availability. SpaceX is also trying to cut cost aggressively.
- spookthesunset 4y agoTrue. As an ISP you are gonna need an IPv4 stack no matter what. Even if that stack is CGNAT'd up the ass. I can't even ping news.ycombinator.com or amazon.com with IPv6. That is the biggest problem with IPv6. Who is gonna be the first ISP to shut off their IPv4 stack? There is always gonna be some random website that is IPv4.
- londons_explore 4y ago
- lima 4y ago> A little surprised that a new ISP created in 2021 wouldn't have IPv6 support as one of their launch features. Worse, they had it and turned it off at some point!
- londons_explore 4y agoUnfortunately customers tend to be happier with IPv6 turned off. There are lots of ways to misconfigure IPv6 and have it kinda work but slow and unusable. This is especially the case when you let users bring their own router.
- fulafel 4y agoNot really: Like was mentioned upthread, with CGNAT you end up fate sharing the reputation of a single v4 address with other customers, you get CAPTCHAs or just outright lack of service (eg instagram aggressively rate limits per IP). Not to mention worse service with apps that can use end-to-end connectivity when availabe, like video calls etc.
- virtuallynathan 4y agoThey moved from behind Google to their own network, so it wasnt exactly turning it off.
- spookthesunset 4y agoWould them using CGNAT suggest they are tunneling your traffic as it goes between your station and the ground station? I wonder if they’ll go IPv6 once they are doing inter-satellite routing?
- wongarsu 4y agoThey could do CGNAT at each ground station, with IPs dedicated to each ground station
- rubatuga 4y agoMany of our customers are on Starlink, and use our service to bypass the CGNAT allowing them to host web servers, SMTP servers, etc. Our service is called Hoppy Network, it provides a unique and publicly accessible IPv4 and IPv6 range over WireGuard. https://hoppy.network https://hoppy.network
- CMCDragonkai 4y agoDoes this work if I'm already using tailscale?
- bumblebritches5 4y agoWhat's the point of Starlink? with 4G/5G home internet, there's no real point anymore.
- Dagger2 4y agoDecent satellite internet for people who can't get anything else? I don't see how 4G/5G home internet existing removes the point of it.
- NelsonMinar 4y agoWhere I live, I can try to use 4G. I get one bar of signal and when it's working I get anywhere from 0.2 to 20Mbps with 700ms (!) latency. It costs $80 for 150Gb a month. Or I can use Starlink. I get a solid reliable signal, anywhere from 20-250 Mbps with 60ms latency. It costs $110 for unlimited bandwidth. The real competition where I am is fixed wireless. That's 12 Mbps, 70ms latency, and $100/mo.
- Handytinge 4y agoYou likely live in a country with a population smaller than 5% of the worlds. Many people do not have this option. For me personally, the pathing of 5G and my broadband are too similar, so Starlink acts as a redundancy for these.
- bumblebritches5 4y ago
- virtuallynathan 4y agoThey recently added a bunch of IPv6 addresses to their GeoIP file, and announced more via BGP, I suspect its in the works. FWIW, they arent any more specifically Geo located, so this won't fix your issues.
- donkarma 4y agogood, what does geo location offer aside privacy invasion?
- lifeencoder 4y agoTIL Starlink doesnot have IPv6
- cma 4y agoStarlink was also initially promoted for gaming, where CGNAT is terrible. Unfortunately Sony doesn't support IPv6 either. Without the laser links Starlink also never got the latency advantages it was supposed to have for long range gaming (like US to Europe). Instead it goes down to a basestation and then through traditional means, but that may change with the new bigger satellites if the laser part works this time.
- urthor 4y agoWaiiiiiiit, it's NAT causing the bloody captchas. Bugger this. I've had enough of the captcha storm.
- soupbowl 4y agoStarlink dishes support ipv6, I've been using it for awhile. Their stock router box does not support ipv6 though.