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> In 2019, McKinsey cut ties with opioid manufacturers So up until then, they were fine with it. In fact, abetting it. Now they're apologizing. If ever there

> In 2019, McKinsey cut ties with opioid manufacturers So up until then, they were fine with it. In fact, abetting it. Now they're apologizing. If ever there were an argument for the corporate death penalty, this is it.

dlg 4y ago
Or if not, their work for 43 of the 100 largest global polluters [0] or illegal corruption in Africa? [1] [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/business/mckinsey-climate-change.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/business/mckinsey-climate... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/world/africa/mckinsey-south-africa-eskom.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/world/africa/mckinsey-sou...
- missedthecue 4y ago
  I hate it when "studies" assign pollution to the company that pulled the oil from the ground. It's so dishonest, and perhaps even worse, it provides zero valuable insight. If I go joyride in a private jet, I'm the polluter, not Exxon Mobil for pulling the oil from the ground.
  - BrianOnHN 4y ago
    I prefer addressing issues at the source. Mental gymnastics are for the guilty.
    - kortilla 4y ago
      Right, the source here being the jet where the fuel is actually burned for energy.
      - BrianOnHN 4y ago
        Wrong. The jet is a matter of convenience. The fuel (source) being sufficiently inconvenient (expensive, illegal) would force alternative decisions.
      - daniel-cussen 4y ago
        Takes two to tango in this case. The source is still where the fuel came from. You're talking about the sink it's ending up in.
    - kwere 4y ago
      do you know oil has a lot of uses that are not pure transportation/electricity/heating related and necesssary for the modern civilization ?
      - BrianOnHN 4y ago
        Yeah, like the plastics that kill our environment on another vector. Stop apologizing for oil companies. Your brain power would be better spent solving how to stop literally pouring gas on the fire.
  - neilv 4y ago
    Why not both?
ekianjo 4y ago
Half a million people died and they get away with a slap on the wrist. Mckinsey should be dismantled and its members involved in the opoids promotion sued and tried.
- themitigating 4y ago
  The owners of the company should he sent to prison for more than 10 years
  - galangalalgol 4y ago
    That is horribly inhumane. Just have each of them be forced to take the average prescribed dose of their product for one year, and then forced not to from then on.
    - retcon 4y ago
      But the entire point of OxyContin is to induce opioid withdrawals every single day by lying claiming that the release formula is effective for 12 hours, but making it cease dosing at 8 hours. Regular removal of opioid availability from a patient has the pernicious effect of creating a excessively of desire for a normalizing dose but removing all base levels to zero puts the brain and body through another cycle of low and high experience and so OxyContin makes immediate junkies out of everyone unfortunate enough to be prescribed.
      - matwood 4y ago
        Possibly, but I have had Oxy prescribed and wasn't an immediate junkie. It worked for my pain is as much that I would pass out soon after taking one. This would have been in the 2008/2009 period, and my doctor was very careful with dosage. Also note, I hated the way I felt while taking them.
      - jen20 4y ago
        I was prescribed it recently after surgery. Took it for around 5 days and then stopped with no ill effect (and several left). I don’t think your statement holds in the short term (and certainly not “immediate”), though over a longer period it seems to.
klabb3 4y ago
The timing is eerie. Declared public health emergency in 2017 and most media coverage and high profile lawsuits was in 2017-2019. Insiders like McKinsey knew about the dangers much earlier, perhaps better than anyone. > Consultancy McKinsey and Company agreed to pay $573 million to 47 state governments to settle claims it advised "Purdue Pharma and other drug makers to aggressively market opioid painkillers." That was in 2021.
PheonixPharts 4y ago
At all levels the true service that McKinsey provides is responsibility diffusion. Whether it's a manager that doesn't want the bad rap for a stupid or unpopular decision to profiting from creating the opioid crisis, the role of McKinsey is to come in, tell you what you wanted to hear, and then walk away bearing a good chunk of the blame for whatever happens. The blame is meaningless to them and has zero negative consequences (in fact it has positive consequences), they just perform the part of "evil" management consults. It's an important part in making sure no one takes too big of a responsibility hit. This is what makes McKinsey so vile. It's not that they actually put these ideas in the heads of their clients, but that they perform a necessary part in making sure that even the most banal of evil actions to the most horrendous can remain ultimately consequence free.
- rapind 4y ago
  > The blame is meaningless to them and has zero negative consequences I would imagine this many government ties helps a little bit when it comes to consequences: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_employees_of_McKinsey_%26_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_employees_of_Mc...
  - kolbe 4y ago
    This I think is the reality of it all. There's a subtle hint of extortion in their work. A tone of "oh, you need to lay off thousands of workers because your business isn't doing as well as it sounds? That's a shame. That sounds a lot like securities fraud to me. We have the commissioner's daughter on our payroll, so if you let us advise on the layoffs, maybe you can avoid charges."
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
      No, it’s not nor is it solely responsibility diffusion. The real trick of McKinsey is being everywhere. If you are a corporate strategist, you can try to do the best you can with what your analysts tell you and your own data. But if you hire McKinsey you are sure their advice will be at least as good as the one they are giving your competitors. Of course they don’t make it obvious. They have internal shielding, privacy protection, the whole shebang. But you might get invited to be part of the benchmark which matters and their internal documentation pulls cleverly from all their cases. It’s subtle but hiring them is the closest you can get to a cartel without crossing the line. That’s why they are so expensive.
kwere 4y ago
how would a corporation death penalty work? probably with company closure ( equity destruction ), banning the brand and force all ill involved managament to not work in that specificindustry for 5-10 years.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

dlg 4y ago

Or if not, their work for 43 of the 100 largest global polluters [0] or illegal corruption in Africa? [1] [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/business/mckinsey-climate-change.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/business/mckinsey-climate... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/world/africa/mckinsey-south-africa-eskom.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/world/africa/mckinsey-sou...

missedthecue 4y ago
I hate it when "studies" assign pollution to the company that pulled the oil from the ground. It's so dishonest, and perhaps even worse, it provides zero valuable insight. If I go joyride in a private jet, I'm the polluter, not Exxon Mobil for pulling the oil from the ground.
- BrianOnHN 4y ago
  I prefer addressing issues at the source. Mental gymnastics are for the guilty.
  - kortilla 4y ago
    Right, the source here being the jet where the fuel is actually burned for energy.
    - BrianOnHN 4y ago
      Wrong. The jet is a matter of convenience. The fuel (source) being sufficiently inconvenient (expensive, illegal) would force alternative decisions.
    - daniel-cussen 4y ago
      Takes two to tango in this case. The source is still where the fuel came from. You're talking about the sink it's ending up in.
  - kwere 4y ago
    do you know oil has a lot of uses that are not pure transportation/electricity/heating related and necesssary for the modern civilization ?
    - BrianOnHN 4y ago
      Yeah, like the plastics that kill our environment on another vector. Stop apologizing for oil companies. Your brain power would be better spent solving how to stop literally pouring gas on the fire.
- neilv 4y ago
  Why not both?

ekianjo 4y ago

Half a million people died and they get away with a slap on the wrist. Mckinsey should be dismantled and its members involved in the opoids promotion sued and tried.

themitigating 4y ago
The owners of the company should he sent to prison for more than 10 years
- galangalalgol 4y ago
  That is horribly inhumane. Just have each of them be forced to take the average prescribed dose of their product for one year, and then forced not to from then on.
  - retcon 4y ago
    But the entire point of OxyContin is to induce opioid withdrawals every single day by lying claiming that the release formula is effective for 12 hours, but making it cease dosing at 8 hours. Regular removal of opioid availability from a patient has the pernicious effect of creating a excessively of desire for a normalizing dose but removing all base levels to zero puts the brain and body through another cycle of low and high experience and so OxyContin makes immediate junkies out of everyone unfortunate enough to be prescribed.
    - matwood 4y ago
      Possibly, but I have had Oxy prescribed and wasn't an immediate junkie. It worked for my pain is as much that I would pass out soon after taking one. This would have been in the 2008/2009 period, and my doctor was very careful with dosage. Also note, I hated the way I felt while taking them.
    - jen20 4y ago
      I was prescribed it recently after surgery. Took it for around 5 days and then stopped with no ill effect (and several left). I don’t think your statement holds in the short term (and certainly not “immediate”), though over a longer period it seems to.

klabb3 4y ago

The timing is eerie. Declared public health emergency in 2017 and most media coverage and high profile lawsuits was in 2017-2019. Insiders like McKinsey knew about the dangers much earlier, perhaps better than anyone. > Consultancy McKinsey and Company agreed to pay $573 million to 47 state governments to settle claims it advised "Purdue Pharma and other drug makers to aggressively market opioid painkillers." That was in 2021.

PheonixPharts 4y ago

At all levels the true service that McKinsey provides is responsibility diffusion. Whether it's a manager that doesn't want the bad rap for a stupid or unpopular decision to profiting from creating the opioid crisis, the role of McKinsey is to come in, tell you what you wanted to hear, and then walk away bearing a good chunk of the blame for whatever happens. The blame is meaningless to them and has zero negative consequences (in fact it has positive consequences), they just perform the part of "evil" management consults. It's an important part in making sure no one takes too big of a responsibility hit. This is what makes McKinsey so vile. It's not that they actually put these ideas in the heads of their clients, but that they perform a necessary part in making sure that even the most banal of evil actions to the most horrendous can remain ultimately consequence free.

rapind 4y ago
> The blame is meaningless to them and has zero negative consequences I would imagine this many government ties helps a little bit when it comes to consequences: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_employees_of_McKinsey_%26_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_employees_of_Mc...
- kolbe 4y ago
  This I think is the reality of it all. There's a subtle hint of extortion in their work. A tone of "oh, you need to lay off thousands of workers because your business isn't doing as well as it sounds? That's a shame. That sounds a lot like securities fraud to me. We have the commissioner's daughter on our payroll, so if you let us advise on the layoffs, maybe you can avoid charges."
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    No, it’s not nor is it solely responsibility diffusion. The real trick of McKinsey is being everywhere. If you are a corporate strategist, you can try to do the best you can with what your analysts tell you and your own data. But if you hire McKinsey you are sure their advice will be at least as good as the one they are giving your competitors. Of course they don’t make it obvious. They have internal shielding, privacy protection, the whole shebang. But you might get invited to be part of the benchmark which matters and their internal documentation pulls cleverly from all their cases. It’s subtle but hiring them is the closest you can get to a cartel without crossing the line. That’s why they are so expensive.

kwere 4y ago

how would a corporation death penalty work? probably with company closure ( equity destruction ), banning the brand and force all ill involved managament to not work in that specificindustry for 5-10 years.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]