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Yahoo admits mangling e-mail (2002)
- Andoryuuta 4y agoCame across this and thought it was an... amusing filter.
- lbriner 4y agoYahoo's latest tactic is just to insist on complete DMARC alignment to even stand a chance of being delivered. We have no problems with pretty much any other provider apart from them. And of course, they won't help you understand what is wrong with a particular message and how to avoid spam traps because "that would help phishing", which of course is patently nonsense since GMail pretty much tell you how to keep you mail acceptable.
- cmeacham98 4y agoI have 100% compliance with DMARC, DKIM, SPF, reverse DNS records set, a valid SSL cert - and Yahoo still drops half my mail. Works at basically every other major provider: Gmail, AOL, iCloud, Outlook, Yandex, etc. My conclusion is that Yahoo's spam filters just suck in general.
- guilamu 4y agoSame here, most of mine are just delayed though.
- kstrauser 4y agoAnd yet, during my annual login to the Yahoo account I keep around out of morbid curiosity, it’s full of spam. It seems like refusing to accept inbound mail would be an improvement in their filtering.
- ec109685 4y agoAOL and Yahoo mail have very similar backends given they are owned by same company.
- reid 4y agoFull disclosure: I work on Yahoo Mail, but I’m not speaking for my employer. Have you checked out CFL? If users mark sender’s messages as spam, it can impact that sender’s deliverability. The CFL can help avoid these recipients by understanding spam reports. More best practices for deliverability: https://senders.yahooinc.com/best-practices/ https://senders.yahooinc.com/best-practices/
- cmeacham98 4y agoThe domain in question is exclusively used for personal email by myself and close friends/family I trust. I would be surprised if a single message ever sent from this domain has been manually marked as spam on Yahoo.
- bpye 4y agoIm guessing you run your own mail server more for fun? It’s the one service I use frequently but I’ve never tried to self host - its always seemed like a lot of pain.
- guilamu 4y agoI'm managing an email serveur sending around 1 million emails a month. Since a while now, yahoo are delaying emails for 12 h to 48 h. I have 0 issue anywhere else than yahoo. Not a single email sent by this server has been flagged has spam according to their own support staff. I have no idea what to do to fix those delays and it seems they have no idea either...
- CodesInChaos 4y agoSounds like greylisting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greylisting_(email) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greylisting_(email)
- guilamu 4y agoThanks for your reply. I had no idea this was a thing. I still don't have any idea why would yahoo would put us on a grey listing while Gmail and Hotmail don't. I'm trying to get their support to help me. I'll update here if I have any useful answer from them.
- Mo3 4y agoSimpler times.. sometimes I miss them.
- kstrauser 4y agoClbuttic problem with content filtering.
- sqlacid 4y agoClassic comment
- kevin_thibedeau 4y agoEasy there. HN doesn't like harsh language.
- dredmorbius 4y agoScunthorpe approved!
- astura 4y ago*Clbuttic comment
- JohnJamesRambo 4y agoI feel like my IQ increased 20 points just looking at a page laid out like this.
- alberth 4y agoInformation hierarchy is extremely underrated. It’s surprisingly hard to do which is why these days so few do it, plus screen real estate on mobile adds additional challenges.
- mushufasa 4y agoif you viewed it on an 800 x 600 screen, it would look appropriate
- alberth 4y agoI think you mean, “if you viewed this on a screen 13+ inches” because nearly all displays now are way more than 800x600 resolution.
- kube-system 4y agoLooks great on my Apple Watch.
- mushufasa 4y agono I don't; this is hardcoded to a specific pixel width
- Dylan16807 4y agoCSS pixels get scaled on high resolution screens, though.
- ape4 4y agoDates like "03 Jan 01" knocked it back down a bit
- haunter 4y agoWhy the Archive.org link? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2138014.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2138014.stm
- Andoryuuta 4y agoOh! To be entirely honest, I got the link directly from a reference on a Wikipedia page, so I assumed the old link must be down since it was using archive.org. With that being said, the archive.org link is probably better in case anyone comes across this HN discussion in the future.
- VoidWhisperer 4y agoI think Wikipedia references are encouraged to use archive links because it will show the page at the time that they used it as a reference as opposed to linking to the live page which can change at any time.
- gbear605 4y agoWikipedia references should include both the live url and the archive url, and then set the “dead” flag to either true or false to choose which url to link to. Probably either an automated process or an inattentive user falsely marked the url as dead.
- runlevel1 4y agoWikipedia has been around long enough that many of the citation links pointing to other websites are broken. So there are several wiki bots that go around replacing direct links with links to the archived pages.
- jwilk 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_problem links both to the live page and to the archived copy (in that order). Linking only to an archived copy when the original is still live would be unusual.
- 4y ago
- bcraven 4y agoHere's a contemporary site where the users discuss their confusion. "When did "Medireview" = Medieval???" https://www.enworld.org/threads/when-did-medireview-medieval.4600/ https://www.enworld.org/threads/when-did-medireview-medieval...
- jeanlucas 4y agoThat's some nice collateral effect
- doodlesdev 4y ago> Actually, it appears to be a real term and not a mistake. I'm finding "medireview" in a lot of places on the web in place of the more traditional "medieval," even in university and college catalogs. > Interesting. This is the funniest forum thread I've seen in ages
- re 4y agoAnother humorous example from the second page of that thread: > speaking of which, did anyone else who owns the 2e Wizard's Spell Compendium notice that the term "dawizard" appeared wherever "damage" should have been?
- iggldiggl 4y ago"It was as if a light had been Nookd…" (https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3994 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3994)
- yvoschaap 4y agoI remember sending fake Yahoo login forms as html attachments. eval() & alert() fix: `const ev = 'ev', al = 'al', ert = 'ert'; window[ev + al](window[al + ert]('hi'))`
- londons_explore 4y agoblock the word 'window' and I don't think your approach is possible?
- ghayes 4y agoCurious if `evevalal` would have worked…
- lalopalota 4y ago"evreviewal" probably not
- robinhouston 4y agoThis is very funny. At least one of the resulting words is sufficiently attested to have been recorded by Wiktionary. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/medireview https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/medireview > Etymology: Coined accidentally by Yahoo! Mail in 2001, from medieval by automated string substitution of review for eval, a Javascript command short for evaluate.
- re 4y agomedireview =~ s/review/eval/ Medieval is one of those words that I have never been able to remember how to spell, maybe this will be a mnemonic that sticks.
- somebodynew 4y agoI had the same problem and eventually settled on "medical evaluation" as a mnemonic.
- IncRnd 4y agoA mnemonic that suits more cases is, "i before e, except after c."
- cratermoon 4y agoThat rule has so many exceptions that there's another mnemonic for remembering the exceptions. 1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_before_E_except_after_C#Exceptions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_before_E_except_after_C#Exce...
- annexrichmond 4y agoInteresting that the article is filed under `Science/Nature` instead of `Technology`
- d4a 4y agoIt's the Sc**horpe problem all over again
- starik36 4y agoThey are still mangling it. If you are setting up IMAP, they only allow you to download the latest 10,000 messages.
- mr-ron 4y agoTangent related to this. I had an old yahoo mail address from late 90s till mid 00s before I switched to gmail. Lots of family / high school / college / early professional emails were there. The other month I logged in to view them as I do every so often and yahoo had purged the entire archive. Like 20MB worth of emails gone. Apparently they have a policy if you do not log in in a year of time they will delete everything with no way to recover. I can’t imagine the decision making to put this policy in nor could I ever imagine using yahoo email again for any purpose whatsoever.
- registeredcorn 4y agoWhat amount of time do you think would be more appropriate before inactivity would lead to deletion of data?
- aasasd 4y agoFeels weird to be one of those patronizing old farts, but: Thunderbird has nearly all of my emails since mid-2000s, including accounts that are dead for years.
- dmd 4y agoSame but my archive goes back to 1988, including some I carried over from Fidonet.
- distances 4y agoI just have all my emails since 1997 in my current email account. Every time I've changed providers, I've copied the old emails over to the new one as they've all had some POP3 functionality for import. I do still have my first email account from 1997 too, but it was an early free email service that got acquired by Yahoo so I was hit by this same Yahoo deletion policy at some point. Which didn't really matter as I had everything copied over to the next one anyway.
- Jaruzel 4y agoSame here, glad I'm not alone in this. When I explain to people I can search 25 years of personal email via my current inbox, they just look at me like I'm making it up. When I switched to a personal Exchange server about 15 years ago, I copied over all previous emails from a collection of legacy accounts, and then more recently I migrated the whole lot up to Exchange Online. I also converted and migrated in old mail messages from a DEC VMS system I used to be a SysAdmin on.
- iso1631 4y agoObligatory Tom Scott video on the Scunthorpe problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcZdwX4noCE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcZdwX4noCE
- billpg 4y agoI get not wanting to forward JS in email messages onto your customers whose browsers will run it and forward your login cookies to criminals. I do not get thinking that replacing the word "eval" with "review" is a solution to that problem.
- uudecoded 4y agoThis literally caused me to have a bad taste in my mouth when I was in high school: My yearbook advisor sent yahoo mail and asked what I would like to be picked up at Starbucks for an early morning meeting the next day. "Caramel Mocha, thank you!", I replied. The next morning, I was surprised with an undrinkable "Caramel espresso" - an espresso with a pump of caramel syrup. I thought she had made an innocent mistake and was shocked to see there was in fact a difference between my sent text and her received text. I had no explanation. After some years in web dev, and encountering this article, I realized that, as the precursor to javascript - the script type "mocha" was valid, so yahoo just went ahead and replaced all references to mocha with something that probably seemed innocuous to a junior developer - except it wasn't.
- meltyness 4y agoThis concoction is "the regular" for me.
- iamtheworstdev 4y agoare you aware that it's undrinkable? ;-)
- sdwr 4y agoWhen I worked at starbucks I loved that shit! 2 shots of blonde espresso, a pump of caramel and a liiittle bit of steamed half+half. Thinking about it now makes me feel sick though.
- 4y ago
- unixbane 4y agoContent modification usually leads to vulns (e.g, XSS filters, possible bitsquatting enabled here if they change URLs or breaking array bounds checks in programs). Classic 90s security. Too bad 90s security never went away.
- brrrrrm 4y agoSome of the phrasing is quite fascinating! E.g. “kidnap personal information”
- cratermoon 4y ago%s/eval/review/g
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 4y agoDumb user question: Why is this URL redirecting to https:// https:// from http:// http://
- cratermoon 4y agoYou should always use SSL and secure encryption when possible. In fact, sticking with http is such a bad idea that most websites are now using https by default. The real question is: why did the OP provide a bare http link? Something sitting around in a bookmarks file from 2002?
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 4y agoThe localhost forward proxy I run changes http:// http:// to https:// https://. Unlike a browser extension such as "HTTPS Everywhere" it is not restricted only to web browsers. The page is available via https:// https:// through Internet Archive (IA): https://web.archive.org/web/20030408070754if_/http://news.bbc.co.uk:80/2/hi/science/nature/2138014.stm https://web.archive.org/web/20030408070754if_/http://news.bb... If I encounter a site like this that has http:// http:// only URLs, I can specify the proxy configuration to redirect to IA when it encounters an http:// http:// URl with the domain "news.bbc.co.uk". The answer to the "real question" is that there is no https:// https:// URL to provide. As I stated, changing this URL to https:// https:// will only return "HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently" with the Location header containing the http:// http:// URL.
- eyelidlessness 4y agoYou answered the actual question asked (my emphasis added below): > Dumb user question: Why is this URL redirecting to https:// https:// from http:// http:// It appears the intent of the question was the inverse—the link redirects from HTTPS to HTTP (the mechanics of which have already been addressed by another comment). I don’t think you should have been downvoted for answering the question as stated in good faith, even if it wasn’t the intent of the question. With that said, the question to me is why does the BBC downgrade HTTPS requests for older content to HTTP permalinks? It seems to me that’s probably more complex than just serving the same content for both protocols. Perhaps it’s policy, or regulatory?
- cookie_monsta 4y agoAlmost completely OT, but reminds me of a company I used to write for who for reasons decided that we weren't authors any more, but writers. Somebody did a find n replace on the documentation which lead to some interesting constructions like "if a piece has been writered by multiple writers..."
- quickthrower2 4y ago"Mocha to espresso" ... well that is for the greater good.
- Pakdef 4y agoWhile not as bad, I lost my Rocketmail account because I didn't login for a few months... haven't used Yahoo since.
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago(2002)