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Google’s Android Automotive OS is coming to BMW cars next year

78 points by ra7 4y ago

_the_inflator 4y ago
Ok, same goes for Mercedes I suppose. They are working on a own "operating system" as well. I read my "Tanenbaum" and this move makes sense for a company, that has few merit in software development.
- eps 4y ago
  Electric Volvo is full in already. As is Polestar... which is super unfortunate because the hardware is actually quite excellent.
sschueller 4y ago
"some of its future models would run on a next-gen version of its in-house operating system built on top of Android Automotive. It's a big change from previous Linux-based versions, though the company says some of its cars will stay on its legacy build." Seems a lot more limited than the title hints at. Is the word legacy from BMW? They may continue to improve the Linux version so I would not call it legacy until it gets fazed out.
- izacus 4y ago
  Most car companies don't "continue to improve" their software and that's probably what will happen here - they'll just stop updating those head units and leave them behind.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    That isn't quite right. Most companies continue to improve software, they just don't release updates. They fix minor bugs and add new features, but you can't get at that without buying a new car as they don't provide means to do updates. (major bugs trigger a recall, sometimes everyone gets the latest, sometimes they apply the fix to each branch) They might use the same hardware for 20 years (in that time at least a few parts will go obsolete to be replaced with something functionally identical), but if yours breaks you will get that hardware with the version of software released for your car even though the software from a later model year would run on the same computer and have more features. Note that just because the software will run doesn't mean the system will. Sometimes they change network interfaces in incompatible ways so the whole car will not work in some way which could be major or minor depending.
    - cstejerean 4y ago
      When was that? Right now all 3 of my cars provide over the air software updates, because all 3 have cellular modems for things like remote lock/unlock or remote start. Even before this the previous generation Dodge I had could be software updated via a USB stick.
      - bluGill 4y ago
        Only select things get those updates. I doubt the engine code gets changed.
pluc 4y ago
So BMW is switching from a Linux distro to a Linux distro
- kube-system 4y ago
  I feel somewhat vindicated knowing that even big companies have the same distro-hopping problem that I have on my own machines.
- Rhedox 4y ago
  Android is not really a Linux distro in the usual sense. It only ships the kernel and none of the GNU userspace components that a typical Linux distro has.
  - bonzini 4y ago
    So... it's Linux but not GNU/Linux?
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      BWM naturally owns the whole stack, however in what app developers are concerned, nothing Linux related is part of stable API surface of the NDK. Trying to use them might get an app killed. Of course on what concerns BMW/Android it is a different matter.
    - dredmorbius 4y ago
      Linux kernel, a very minimal userland, the Android VM on top of that. Android is arguably on a path to becoming a dominant if not the dominant embedded system for consumer devices. I don't say this with any joy whatsoever.
      - nicce 4y ago
        Android is dying. Chine companies have made their own OS to replace it. Google is bringing Fuchsia to replace Linux kernel to get total dominance over stack. List goes on.
amelius 4y ago
I noticed lately that Android changed the UI of my Clock/Timer app without asking me, and it looks worse, not better. Plus it confused me when I was confronted with the change. So future car owners, beware.
haloboy777 4y ago
Does anyone know whether they will be compatible with iOS?
- dhruvrrp 4y ago
  From what I've seen Volvo has it isn't like Apple Carplay or Android Auto. Rather it's a self contained android device
  - t3rabytes 4y ago
    Yes, but Volvo/Polestar have just started the OTAs to add CarPlay support.
  - TetOn 4y ago
    Correct. Poorly named, but Android Automotive is the equivalent of the iDrive software that runs in the BMW center panel (in the absence of any other user device)...CarPlay or Android Auto could still overlay that assuming the carmaker supports it.
- wmf 4y ago
  Yes, it does support CarPlay.
aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
Out of the frying pan, into the fire...
iasay 4y ago
I'd hate to own a 10 year old car with Android Automotive in it... It'll be weird when there is a market for dumb cars.
- Alupis 4y ago
  I'm not really sure it's any worse than what we had before. My Ford's entertainment system (pre-Android Auto) hasn't received an update since it was about 1 year old and in the dealership for a warranty service.
- chiph 4y ago
  Well, the only good thing is that Google Maps will likely continue to run. My DVD based system had it's last update ever in 2015, so it will occasionally show me driving "off road" where the map database doesn't have street info. But then the cellphone companies could retire 4G data service at some point (like how 3G just shut down in February) and you won't be able to use it at all.
  - iasay 4y ago
    My car just has a BT receiver. My phone is my nav and in car entertainment system thus saving that entire problem of obsolescence.
- wyre 4y ago
  I bet there is a market for dumb cars right now but dumb cars don’t have enough profit margin for investors to be interested.
- userbinator 4y ago
  There's a market for dumb cars, it's called the used/vintage/classic cars market.
  - pluc 4y ago
    Increasingly, that's standard cars. 98% of all north american cars being sold are automatic (completely anectodal stat).. if you want standard your choices are a Golf or a Jeep. It might even become gas-powered cars too but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one
mrkramer 4y ago
Android Auto, Android Automotive, CarPlay and cars' own operating systems all in the mix?! Not standardized, not compatible apps etc. Somebody needs to standardize this just like Gates said back in the day for PCs.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  Standardization is nice, but so is competition. Notably, Windows got really sucky in the first decade of the millennium XP and Vista and competition from Apple's Mac forced Windows to improve (7+). Personally, I'm somewhat worried about the "planned obsolescence" effect that these smart infotainment systems have on cars. Will it put pressure on consumers to upgrade their cars every few years as we do with phones, lest our infotainment system fall out of support? Will we as a society end up discarding otherwise perfectly good cars because the infotainment system is well out of date?
  - nicce 4y ago
    Windows had too long period of time without proper competition and we can now see it in the stalled development.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    I don't use my car's infotainment. The maps are 10 years out of date, though it will sometimes still get me places. However even in the best case of up to date, the maps on my phone get updated with the latest road closures as they happen, and infotainment doesn't. All I need is a Bluetooth connection, and fortunately my latest phones still connect via Bluetooth to my 10 year old car. Doesn't connect to me 20 year old car - but that never had bluetooth, so while I'm annoyed I can't complain.
  - crooked-v 4y ago
    Existing infotainment systems are already almost immediately obsolete. At least with Apple Carplay or Android Auto you don't actually have to use them for most purposes, as long as the car manufacturer didn't take the user-hating move of making climate controls entirely infotainment-based.
flashfabrixx 4y ago
The title is misleading as BMW will introduce Android Automotive as a second platform - not fully switch to it. > “The company plans to develop their BMW Operating System 8 infotainment software using Android Automotive for some vehicle models beginning in March 2023 but also maintain the current Linux-based version for others.“ https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/30/23189642/bmw-android-automotive-operating-system-adoption https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/30/23189642/bmw-android-auto...
- awiesenhofer 4y ago
  Thanks for this, from the headline I already feared they are going to cancel iDrive! Good to know it doesn't go anywhere, its such a good, wonderfully tactile system!
Animats 4y ago
Do you have to have a Google account to drive?
- k8sToGo 4y ago
  No but you have to watch a 30 second ad first.
- iasay 4y ago
  Aw your car was suspended for abuse? Follow the FAQ link which turns into a recursive hell hole with no one powerful enough to help you when you eventually stumble on a human.
- ra7 4y ago
  No, you don't have to. Android Automotive is the base OS. Manufacturers can opt in to offer Google Automotive Services (GAS) which are a bunch of Google apps on top, which you do need to sign in to use.
- crooked-v 4y ago
  Dystopic action-comedy potential: a White House Down style thriller, except one of the key plot points is the villains immobilizing the fleet of Presidential vehicles by getting their Google accounts banned with fake copyright claims.
saidinesh5 4y ago
I suspect it is cheaper these days to get Android devs than Qt/C++/Embedded Linux devs and can't help wonder if this is their big cost cutting decision. I wonder what this means for their Qt/QML teams and a lot of their middleware from Genivi: https://www.genivi.org/ https://www.genivi.org/ (Interestingly, the website seems to be down for me).
- miohtama 4y ago
  Also BMW is indirectly admitting that their in-house software development sucks, they underinvested in it for many yeears and now they need to buy the core from Google to stay competitive. If it is only about Java development then they could write their own platform in Java.
  - mrkramer 4y ago
    I think they are afraid that Google's software will become an industry standard and that they will be left out. They are in the position where they need to make a bet and that bet will determine how the next decade of business will look like for them.
    - miohtama 4y ago
      If the best product wins then Google’s is likely to become industry standard. Android Auto is not panacea, but no European or Asian company has shown any talent to build high quality software in scale. Only US/Silicon Valley companies can do this. And this is not just about cars - it’s also the same for mobile phones, etc.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Just to be clear. The article is about “Android Automotive” a self contained OS built into the car. Android Auto is basically a display that requires an Android phone to operate.
dsr_ 4y ago
Semi-related whining: I don't want the car to run apps. I don't want it OTA-upgradable. I want the car to have all of its own instruments and essential functions tucked away, and to offer an interface for it to * send demands (mix down the music to zero and bring up my channel, there's an emergency) * respond to information requests (Battery is at 55.31%, no systems have errors, headlights are on, speed is 45.8mph) * and let my computer request non-critical things (please turn on the seat heaters, set the HVAC to recirculate medium, set thermostat to 68F) Keep the security and safety things far away from the shiny user interface things, and let me replace the user interface things every few years instead of replacing the car.
- ajmurmann 4y ago
  This! "Smart" TVs are already a dumb idea because the "smart' piece will be outdated long before the rest of the device, but a car...?! I want to drive my car for ~15 years. All the "smart" stuff will be long outdated.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    CarPlay and Android Auto are basically just dumb terminals to the phone. It’s easy to keep those compatible. The cars that supported the iPod USB protocol in 2005 still work today with modern iPhones. Yes I know that Android Automative is different than Android Auto.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    If it will be outdated, how can it be provided at all in a car? I perceive from the parent comment that there's an assumption that one can just write a low level API that a high level, customizable interface could run against. We aren't far enough along in the process of digital computing in cars to know what that API looks like. So any user interface at all with fancy features requires frontend and backend integration (so that safety testing guarantees can be made if no other reason), and you're there for stuck with either OTA updates, and interface that will look prehistoric within 15 years, or nothing at all.
- brianwawok 4y ago
Shadonototra 4y ago
Germany keeps making poor choices They'll pay the price in the next decade by becoming irrelevant They should have fired all their software engineers, they are definitely incapable of making fast, smooth, and usable interfaces Using android = they give up, and worse, they embrace the bloat Now you need even more expensive chips to power the bloat Congrats to whoever clueless dude is now the manager Glad i don't own a car, and glad i will never purchase one of their cars
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mupuff1234 4y ago
  I see it as a no-brainer. To phrase it differently, what exactly is the added value BMW can provide over a Google/Apple infotainment system? They need to focus on transitioning to EVs, there's no point in wasting energy on building and maintaining an infotainment system when a good out of the box option exists. Later once they pulled off the EV transition if they want they can fork android and go from there.
  - hedora 4y ago
    Have you driven a BMW that came out in the last 5-10 years? In addition to having been selling EVs for years, their UIs are amazing. They're far ahead of the junky android auto (and first party) implementations I've seen from other manufacturers: - No touchscreen; just a jog wheel - Bluetooth "browse" works great. I can tune podcasts, global radio stations and my music collection by feel. - The map's eco mode routes based on the power train consumption profile of your car. - "Send map address from phone to car" just works. - "Idiot light" stuff is intuitive (e.g., resetting the TPM after filling the tires; knowing when service / inspection is due, etc, etc.) - Did I mention no touch screen? This is important if you plan to drive the car while the computer is turned on. On top of all that, it does a great job of getting out of the way and letting you focus on the road.
    - mupuff1234 4y ago
slotrans 4y ago
Ugh. The iDrive system in my 2013 F30 is juuuuuuust right. Easy to use, thoughtfully laid out, good mix of on-screen menus and tactile buttons / the jog wheel. The newer cars have touchscreens, which is a big step back, but thankfully you don't have to use them. (I heard they were recently removed from some cars due to supply chain issues.) There's just no way that Android is better. I love my car, and the experience of driving and owning it has made me want to be a BMW customer for life. But if they ruin in it with this crap, I'll be looking elsewhere.
- delusional 4y ago
  I'm largely ok with the infotainment in my Mazda. It's simple and to the point. I don't have any major complaints after it stopped crashing like it did for the first month i owned it (I have no idea why it stopped). I'd really like car manufacturers to let me run whatever i want on it though. It's just a Linux box and since you can reboot it while driving the car, i know it's not safety critical. It would be cool if I could just load on a standard executable in whatever machine code it runs and make my own apps.
  - natebc 4y ago
    > I'm largely ok with the infotainment in my Mazda. It's simple and to the point. I don't have any major complaints after it stopped crashing like it did for the first month i owned it (I have no idea why it stopped). You didn't happen to listen to 99% invisible did you[1]? IIRC there were also some FM stations that had RDS issues which triggered a similar problem in mazdas infotaiment. 1. https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-roman-mars-mazda-virus/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-roman-mars-mazda-...
- antiterra 4y ago
  I have a ‘15 F30 and a ‘22 G80. Nothing is better on the F30 and often touchscreen is really convenient compared to the puck. I will add that BMW iDrive feels massively more polished than the MMI in my recent model Audi, which also randomly needs soft/hard resets.
- kart23 4y ago
dmix 4y ago
Off topic but Now that cars are running Android and are getting bigger screens I wonder if Xbox cloud will start being deployed to cars the way Tesla has done with games. You can already play games on Nvidia shields and $50 Firesticks (also technically chromecasts but comments say it's laggy). https://youtu.be/30Ytq2hPo3M https://youtu.be/30Ytq2hPo3M I've played Fallout 4 with 5G + an Xbox controller on my iphone a few times so I'm sure it's possible.
- bonestamp2 4y ago
  Definitely possible... my kids play their console on the back screens in our minivan. There's a standard outlet to power the game system and an HDMI port for the screens. We've never used it for gaming, but there is a wifi access point built in to the vehicle too.
quartz 4y ago
Volvo recently switched to Android Auto from their own Sensus system and I originally thought was going to be great considering Sensus was never anything special... Instead it has been a mess with Carplay support coming soon for something like a year now[1]. I'm not sure if Android auto is explicitly sold as "ship it half-done, you can always push updates!" or if that just happened with Volvo, but it has really turned me off from the platform. [1] https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/22-xc60-no-apple-carplay.645988/page-19 https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/22-xc60-no-apple-carplay....
- yegle 4y ago
  Version 2.2 (this is on mid-2022 XC60) release note announced Car Play support. But they retract the release on 06/27 and the release is no longer visible from their release page.
  - noisenotsignal 4y ago
    I think versioning in Volvo and Polestar are somewhat in sync. For Polestar, CarPlay has only been retracted in 2.2 for US (which some hypothesize includes Canada) and UK. When the version was first released there was a bug where speed is shown in km / h instead of mph. Regardless, I’ve not been soured by the slow intro of CarPlay. Android Automotive is sufficient for what I need the infotainment for (maps and music), and frankly I’m not surprised a Google built OS is having trouble integrating an Apple product. That they have plans to offer CarPlay at all via Android Automotive was a surprise to me. Source: own a Polestar 2.
smcleod 4y ago
Misleading / Clickbait title, BMW aren't switching to Android - they're just offering Android auto as they do Apple CarPlay. Better reporting at https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/30/23189642/bmw-android-automotive-operating-system-adoption https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/30/23189642/bmw-android-auto... @mods
- dang 4y ago
  Ok, we've switched to that article from https://www.androidpolice.com/bmw-android-automotive/ https://www.androidpolice.com/bmw-android-automotive/. Thanks! p.s. "@mods" is a no-op. I only saw this completely randomly. If you want deterministic message delivery, please contact us via hn@ycombinator.com.
- pkulak 4y ago
  Are you sure? Android Automotive is totally different from Android Auto. And everything I've seen is very explicit about saying "Automotive".
- greenthrow 4y ago
  This is not accurate. BMW already offers Android Auto today. This is an announcement they will be making an Android Automotive based infotainment system.
  - smcleod 4y ago
    My point was they're offering it for /some/ cars, they're not switching to it, sorry I confused the naming from android auto with android automotive - those two words mean the same thing in Australia/NZ.
    - greenthrow 4y ago
      > BMW aren't switching to Android - they're just offering Android auto as they do Apple CarPlay. No, that's not what you were saying. You compared it to CarPlay. Yes, the names are confusingly close.
dingosity 4y ago
That's too bad. BMW used to make nice cars.

78 points by ra7 4y ago

Ok, same goes for Mercedes I suppose. They are working on a own "operating system" as well. I read my "Tanenbaum" and this move makes sense for a company, that has few merit in software development.

eps 4y ago
Electric Volvo is full in already. As is Polestar... which is super unfortunate because the hardware is actually quite excellent.

sschueller 4y ago

"some of its future models would run on a next-gen version of its in-house operating system built on top of Android Automotive. It's a big change from previous Linux-based versions, though the company says some of its cars will stay on its legacy build." Seems a lot more limited than the title hints at. Is the word legacy from BMW? They may continue to improve the Linux version so I would not call it legacy until it gets fazed out.

izacus 4y ago
Most car companies don't "continue to improve" their software and that's probably what will happen here - they'll just stop updating those head units and leave them behind.
- bluGill 4y ago
  That isn't quite right. Most companies continue to improve software, they just don't release updates. They fix minor bugs and add new features, but you can't get at that without buying a new car as they don't provide means to do updates. (major bugs trigger a recall, sometimes everyone gets the latest, sometimes they apply the fix to each branch) They might use the same hardware for 20 years (in that time at least a few parts will go obsolete to be replaced with something functionally identical), but if yours breaks you will get that hardware with the version of software released for your car even though the software from a later model year would run on the same computer and have more features. Note that just because the software will run doesn't mean the system will. Sometimes they change network interfaces in incompatible ways so the whole car will not work in some way which could be major or minor depending.
  - cstejerean 4y ago
    When was that? Right now all 3 of my cars provide over the air software updates, because all 3 have cellular modems for things like remote lock/unlock or remote start. Even before this the previous generation Dodge I had could be software updated via a USB stick.
    - bluGill 4y ago
      Only select things get those updates. I doubt the engine code gets changed.

pluc 4y ago

So BMW is switching from a Linux distro to a Linux distro

kube-system 4y ago
I feel somewhat vindicated knowing that even big companies have the same distro-hopping problem that I have on my own machines.
Rhedox 4y ago
Android is not really a Linux distro in the usual sense. It only ships the kernel and none of the GNU userspace components that a typical Linux distro has.
- bonzini 4y ago
  So... it's Linux but not GNU/Linux?
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    BWM naturally owns the whole stack, however in what app developers are concerned, nothing Linux related is part of stable API surface of the NDK. Trying to use them might get an app killed. Of course on what concerns BMW/Android it is a different matter.
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    Linux kernel, a very minimal userland, the Android VM on top of that. Android is arguably on a path to becoming a dominant if not the dominant embedded system for consumer devices. I don't say this with any joy whatsoever.
    - nicce 4y ago
      Android is dying. Chine companies have made their own OS to replace it. Google is bringing Fuchsia to replace Linux kernel to get total dominance over stack. List goes on.

amelius 4y ago

I noticed lately that Android changed the UI of my Clock/Timer app without asking me, and it looks worse, not better. Plus it confused me when I was confronted with the change. So future car owners, beware.

haloboy777 4y ago

Does anyone know whether they will be compatible with iOS?

dhruvrrp 4y ago
From what I've seen Volvo has it isn't like Apple Carplay or Android Auto. Rather it's a self contained android device
- t3rabytes 4y ago
  Yes, but Volvo/Polestar have just started the OTAs to add CarPlay support.
- TetOn 4y ago
  Correct. Poorly named, but Android Automotive is the equivalent of the iDrive software that runs in the BMW center panel (in the absence of any other user device)...CarPlay or Android Auto could still overlay that assuming the carmaker supports it.
wmf 4y ago
Yes, it does support CarPlay.

aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago

Out of the frying pan, into the fire...

iasay 4y ago

I'd hate to own a 10 year old car with Android Automotive in it... It'll be weird when there is a market for dumb cars.

Alupis 4y ago
I'm not really sure it's any worse than what we had before. My Ford's entertainment system (pre-Android Auto) hasn't received an update since it was about 1 year old and in the dealership for a warranty service.
chiph 4y ago
Well, the only good thing is that Google Maps will likely continue to run. My DVD based system had it's last update ever in 2015, so it will occasionally show me driving "off road" where the map database doesn't have street info. But then the cellphone companies could retire 4G data service at some point (like how 3G just shut down in February) and you won't be able to use it at all.
- iasay 4y ago
  My car just has a BT receiver. My phone is my nav and in car entertainment system thus saving that entire problem of obsolescence.
wyre 4y ago
I bet there is a market for dumb cars right now but dumb cars don’t have enough profit margin for investors to be interested.
userbinator 4y ago
There's a market for dumb cars, it's called the used/vintage/classic cars market.
- pluc 4y ago
  Increasingly, that's standard cars. 98% of all north american cars being sold are automatic (completely anectodal stat).. if you want standard your choices are a Golf or a Jeep. It might even become gas-powered cars too but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one

mrkramer 4y ago

Android Auto, Android Automotive, CarPlay and cars' own operating systems all in the mix?! Not standardized, not compatible apps etc. Somebody needs to standardize this just like Gates said back in the day for PCs.

throwaway894345 4y ago
Standardization is nice, but so is competition. Notably, Windows got really sucky in the first decade of the millennium XP and Vista and competition from Apple's Mac forced Windows to improve (7+). Personally, I'm somewhat worried about the "planned obsolescence" effect that these smart infotainment systems have on cars. Will it put pressure on consumers to upgrade their cars every few years as we do with phones, lest our infotainment system fall out of support? Will we as a society end up discarding otherwise perfectly good cars because the infotainment system is well out of date?
- nicce 4y ago
  Windows had too long period of time without proper competition and we can now see it in the stalled development.
- bluGill 4y ago
  I don't use my car's infotainment. The maps are 10 years out of date, though it will sometimes still get me places. However even in the best case of up to date, the maps on my phone get updated with the latest road closures as they happen, and infotainment doesn't. All I need is a Bluetooth connection, and fortunately my latest phones still connect via Bluetooth to my 10 year old car. Doesn't connect to me 20 year old car - but that never had bluetooth, so while I'm annoyed I can't complain.
- crooked-v 4y ago
  Existing infotainment systems are already almost immediately obsolete. At least with Apple Carplay or Android Auto you don't actually have to use them for most purposes, as long as the car manufacturer didn't take the user-hating move of making climate controls entirely infotainment-based.

flashfabrixx 4y ago

The title is misleading as BMW will introduce Android Automotive as a second platform - not fully switch to it. > “The company plans to develop their BMW Operating System 8 infotainment software using Android Automotive for some vehicle models beginning in March 2023 but also maintain the current Linux-based version for others.“ https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/30/23189642/bmw-android-automotive-operating-system-adoption https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/30/23189642/bmw-android-auto...

awiesenhofer 4y ago
Thanks for this, from the headline I already feared they are going to cancel iDrive! Good to know it doesn't go anywhere, its such a good, wonderfully tactile system!

Animats 4y ago

Do you have to have a Google account to drive?

k8sToGo 4y ago
No but you have to watch a 30 second ad first.
iasay 4y ago
Aw your car was suspended for abuse? Follow the FAQ link which turns into a recursive hell hole with no one powerful enough to help you when you eventually stumble on a human.
ra7 4y ago
No, you don't have to. Android Automotive is the base OS. Manufacturers can opt in to offer Google Automotive Services (GAS) which are a bunch of Google apps on top, which you do need to sign in to use.
crooked-v 4y ago
Dystopic action-comedy potential: a White House Down style thriller, except one of the key plot points is the villains immobilizing the fleet of Presidential vehicles by getting their Google accounts banned with fake copyright claims.

saidinesh5 4y ago

I suspect it is cheaper these days to get Android devs than Qt/C++/Embedded Linux devs and can't help wonder if this is their big cost cutting decision. I wonder what this means for their Qt/QML teams and a lot of their middleware from Genivi: https://www.genivi.org/ https://www.genivi.org/ (Interestingly, the website seems to be down for me).

miohtama 4y ago
Also BMW is indirectly admitting that their in-house software development sucks, they underinvested in it for many yeears and now they need to buy the core from Google to stay competitive. If it is only about Java development then they could write their own platform in Java.
- mrkramer 4y ago
  I think they are afraid that Google's software will become an industry standard and that they will be left out. They are in the position where they need to make a bet and that bet will determine how the next decade of business will look like for them.
  - miohtama 4y ago
    If the best product wins then Google’s is likely to become industry standard. Android Auto is not panacea, but no European or Asian company has shown any talent to build high quality software in scale. Only US/Silicon Valley companies can do this. And this is not just about cars - it’s also the same for mobile phones, etc.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Just to be clear. The article is about “Android Automotive” a self contained OS built into the car. Android Auto is basically a display that requires an Android phone to operate.

dsr_ 4y ago

Semi-related whining: I don't want the car to run apps. I don't want it OTA-upgradable. I want the car to have all of its own instruments and essential functions tucked away, and to offer an interface for it to * send demands (mix down the music to zero and bring up my channel, there's an emergency) * respond to information requests (Battery is at 55.31%, no systems have errors, headlights are on, speed is 45.8mph) * and let my computer request non-critical things (please turn on the seat heaters, set the HVAC to recirculate medium, set thermostat to 68F) Keep the security and safety things far away from the shiny user interface things, and let me replace the user interface things every few years instead of replacing the car.

ajmurmann 4y ago
This! "Smart" TVs are already a dumb idea because the "smart' piece will be outdated long before the rest of the device, but a car...?! I want to drive my car for ~15 years. All the "smart" stuff will be long outdated.
- scarface74 4y ago
  CarPlay and Android Auto are basically just dumb terminals to the phone. It’s easy to keep those compatible. The cars that supported the iPod USB protocol in 2005 still work today with modern iPhones. Yes I know that Android Automative is different than Android Auto.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  If it will be outdated, how can it be provided at all in a car? I perceive from the parent comment that there's an assumption that one can just write a low level API that a high level, customizable interface could run against. We aren't far enough along in the process of digital computing in cars to know what that API looks like. So any user interface at all with fancy features requires frontend and backend integration (so that safety testing guarantees can be made if no other reason), and you're there for stuck with either OTA updates, and interface that will look prehistoric within 15 years, or nothing at all.
brianwawok 4y ago

Shadonototra 4y ago

Germany keeps making poor choices They'll pay the price in the next decade by becoming irrelevant They should have fired all their software engineers, they are definitely incapable of making fast, smooth, and usable interfaces Using android = they give up, and worse, they embrace the bloat Now you need even more expensive chips to power the bloat Congrats to whoever clueless dude is now the manager Glad i don't own a car, and glad i will never purchase one of their cars

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mupuff1234 4y ago
I see it as a no-brainer. To phrase it differently, what exactly is the added value BMW can provide over a Google/Apple infotainment system? They need to focus on transitioning to EVs, there's no point in wasting energy on building and maintaining an infotainment system when a good out of the box option exists. Later once they pulled off the EV transition if they want they can fork android and go from there.
- hedora 4y ago
  Have you driven a BMW that came out in the last 5-10 years? In addition to having been selling EVs for years, their UIs are amazing. They're far ahead of the junky android auto (and first party) implementations I've seen from other manufacturers: - No touchscreen; just a jog wheel - Bluetooth "browse" works great. I can tune podcasts, global radio stations and my music collection by feel. - The map's eco mode routes based on the power train consumption profile of your car. - "Send map address from phone to car" just works. - "Idiot light" stuff is intuitive (e.g., resetting the TPM after filling the tires; knowing when service / inspection is due, etc, etc.) - Did I mention no touch screen? This is important if you plan to drive the car while the computer is turned on. On top of all that, it does a great job of getting out of the way and letting you focus on the road.
  - mupuff1234 4y ago

slotrans 4y ago

Ugh. The iDrive system in my 2013 F30 is juuuuuuust right. Easy to use, thoughtfully laid out, good mix of on-screen menus and tactile buttons / the jog wheel. The newer cars have touchscreens, which is a big step back, but thankfully you don't have to use them. (I heard they were recently removed from some cars due to supply chain issues.) There's just no way that Android is better. I love my car, and the experience of driving and owning it has made me want to be a BMW customer for life. But if they ruin in it with this crap, I'll be looking elsewhere.

delusional 4y ago
I'm largely ok with the infotainment in my Mazda. It's simple and to the point. I don't have any major complaints after it stopped crashing like it did for the first month i owned it (I have no idea why it stopped). I'd really like car manufacturers to let me run whatever i want on it though. It's just a Linux box and since you can reboot it while driving the car, i know it's not safety critical. It would be cool if I could just load on a standard executable in whatever machine code it runs and make my own apps.
- natebc 4y ago
  > I'm largely ok with the infotainment in my Mazda. It's simple and to the point. I don't have any major complaints after it stopped crashing like it did for the first month i owned it (I have no idea why it stopped). You didn't happen to listen to 99% invisible did you[1]? IIRC there were also some FM stations that had RDS issues which triggered a similar problem in mazdas infotaiment. 1. https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-roman-mars-mazda-virus/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-roman-mars-mazda-...
antiterra 4y ago
I have a ‘15 F30 and a ‘22 G80. Nothing is better on the F30 and often touchscreen is really convenient compared to the puck. I will add that BMW iDrive feels massively more polished than the MMI in my recent model Audi, which also randomly needs soft/hard resets.
kart23 4y ago

dmix 4y ago

Off topic but Now that cars are running Android and are getting bigger screens I wonder if Xbox cloud will start being deployed to cars the way Tesla has done with games. You can already play games on Nvidia shields and $50 Firesticks (also technically chromecasts but comments say it's laggy). https://youtu.be/30Ytq2hPo3M https://youtu.be/30Ytq2hPo3M I've played Fallout 4 with 5G + an Xbox controller on my iphone a few times so I'm sure it's possible.

bonestamp2 4y ago
Definitely possible... my kids play their console on the back screens in our minivan. There's a standard outlet to power the game system and an HDMI port for the screens. We've never used it for gaming, but there is a wifi access point built in to the vehicle too.

quartz 4y ago

Volvo recently switched to Android Auto from their own Sensus system and I originally thought was going to be great considering Sensus was never anything special... Instead it has been a mess with Carplay support coming soon for something like a year now[1]. I'm not sure if Android auto is explicitly sold as "ship it half-done, you can always push updates!" or if that just happened with Volvo, but it has really turned me off from the platform. [1] https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/22-xc60-no-apple-carplay.645988/page-19 https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/22-xc60-no-apple-carplay....

yegle 4y ago
Version 2.2 (this is on mid-2022 XC60) release note announced Car Play support. But they retract the release on 06/27 and the release is no longer visible from their release page.
- noisenotsignal 4y ago
  I think versioning in Volvo and Polestar are somewhat in sync. For Polestar, CarPlay has only been retracted in 2.2 for US (which some hypothesize includes Canada) and UK. When the version was first released there was a bug where speed is shown in km / h instead of mph. Regardless, I’ve not been soured by the slow intro of CarPlay. Android Automotive is sufficient for what I need the infotainment for (maps and music), and frankly I’m not surprised a Google built OS is having trouble integrating an Apple product. That they have plans to offer CarPlay at all via Android Automotive was a surprise to me. Source: own a Polestar 2.

smcleod 4y ago

Misleading / Clickbait title, BMW aren't switching to Android - they're just offering Android auto as they do Apple CarPlay. Better reporting at https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/30/23189642/bmw-android-automotive-operating-system-adoption https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/30/23189642/bmw-android-auto... @mods

dang 4y ago
Ok, we've switched to that article from https://www.androidpolice.com/bmw-android-automotive/ https://www.androidpolice.com/bmw-android-automotive/. Thanks! p.s. "@mods" is a no-op. I only saw this completely randomly. If you want deterministic message delivery, please contact us via hn@ycombinator.com.
pkulak 4y ago
Are you sure? Android Automotive is totally different from Android Auto. And everything I've seen is very explicit about saying "Automotive".
greenthrow 4y ago
This is not accurate. BMW already offers Android Auto today. This is an announcement they will be making an Android Automotive based infotainment system.
- smcleod 4y ago
  My point was they're offering it for /some/ cars, they're not switching to it, sorry I confused the naming from android auto with android automotive - those two words mean the same thing in Australia/NZ.
  - greenthrow 4y ago
    > BMW aren't switching to Android - they're just offering Android auto as they do Apple CarPlay. No, that's not what you were saying. You compared it to CarPlay. Yes, the names are confusingly close.

dingosity 4y ago

That's too bad. BMW used to make nice cars.