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"Is it really pissing time away if you're enjoying your time spent playing video games?" It depends on if you ever think you will regret it or not. I thought t

"Is it really pissing time away if you're enjoying your time spent playing video games?" It depends on if you ever think you will regret it or not. I thought the same thing 10 years ago when I was spending years playing games and having fun. Now it feels like I wasted a colossal amount of time no matter how much fun it was at the time. I'd never made that choice knowing what I know now.

orobinson 4y ago
Interesting. I was very into PC gaming in my teens and look back on that time quite fondly. Certainly not with any regret or a feeling that I wasted my time.
- whiplash451 4y ago
  Same here. If you're saying "that time I spend gaming was wasted time", you'd better have a really good story about what you would have done instead, excluding any kind of hindsight magic.
  - april_22 4y ago
    I don't think there's anything bad with gaming in your free time - at any age. In the end, why shouldn't one just enjoy whatever life's possibilities are? It's obviously important to keep all other areas of life under control, but what's bad about enjoying doing something - even if it's not productive - especially when you're young. This is quite philosphical, but I've found the idea of optimistic nihilism very helpful for having an overall more relaxed view on life https://you.com/search?q=optimistic+nihilism https://you.com/search?q=optimistic+nihilism
    - agent008t 4y ago
      Why "especially when you're young"? Arguably, any consumption activities are better done when old, and investment activities when young. Effort when young pays off with tons of compounding over your lifespan. Effort when old is not as important, and so pure consumption non-productive activities are probably better enjoyed when old, are they not? Especially if it is something like videogames that doesn't exactly require some great physical abilities.
  - ajmurmann 4y ago
    There are a ton of low-effort forms of entertainment available today. It's easy for them to dominate choice. If you take those away, other things will emerge and grab your interest. If you are even a remotely interested person you'll find stuff. A few months ago I was at the beach without as much technology access and enjoyed it so much that I put myself on a media diet after. I suddenly felt more excitement about programming projects I had started but not finished, reading books, cello practice, little projects around my house and garden. One thing all these things had in common is that they left be feeling better when I was done with them. That just doesn't happen for me with most video games and movies. But it's just so much easier to fall into the couch and watch Netflix or grab the controller.
    - wruza 4y ago
      I really think this thread has to specify the types of video games it speaks about. Because games range from CoD-like X-to-Win shooters with endless changing backgrounds to something more elaborate and harder than real life activities, while being relatively short.
      - ajmurmann 4y ago
        You are right that this makes a difference. I think the difference might be relatively small though. At best the experience can be comparable to having read a great fiction book (Disco Elysium, Life is Strange) or a good social experience like playing with your friends online while using voice chat. Online games with total strangers can be challenging and fun, but also a blur. I've spent way too much time playing Rocket League for example and my experience in hindsight would have been the same off I had only played for like 5-10 hours. And then there are pretend-work games like Factorio, Kerbal Space Program or even more obvious Zachtronic games like Shenzhen IO. The latter might be great exercise for non-programmers, but you don't actually accomplish anything and still exhausted the same parts of your brain.
    - throwaway2037 4y ago
      I like this post. It rings a bell with me when you wrote: <<But it's just so much easier to fall into the couch and watch Netflix or grab the controller.>> I cannot put a finger on it, but what is the difference between (a) reading a newspaper, magazine, book (fiction or non-fiction) and (b) playing video games or streaming films / TV shows? I cannot put a finger on it, but (a) reading activates some part of my brain that (b) streaming does not. Why? I'm not sure. I never read any research about it. One thing I can say: Watching documentaries is different than other stuff. Again: Not sure why. It might only be me and my brain that feels this way. Also, this part: <<I suddenly felt more excitement about programming projects I had started but not finished, reading books, cello practice, little projects around my house and garden.>> Again, I cannot put a finger on it, but what really is the difference between these activities and playing video games or streaming films / TV shows? On the surface, not much, but the emotional satisfaction is so different when finishing a cello piece or novel versus a streamed season of a TV show.
  - watwut 4y ago
    > you'd better have a really good story about what you would have done instead, excluding any kind of hindsight magic. Nah, that is not how it works. Effectively, you want people to tell you about some grand plan they would executed it, if they did not played. The way it works when you stop gaming/reading too much facebook etc is that you start being more active in other areas. You get more fit, you suddenly read more about history without planning to, you do crafts here and there, learn to draw or play music instrument on and off. And overall you feel calmer, more creative, sleep better. And after after months/years it accumulate and you look back happy. It does not feel wasted, cause you have that picture on the wall, your dad has your the thing you created, you are really proud about that song you can play.
- xhrpost 4y ago
  Same. If anything, my teen gaming years may have helped get me through school.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Because there isn't that much else to do as a teen. The opportunity cost of spending time on gaming is low. You could get a job and start saving or investing, or study harder and advance your education more quickly, but it's not the expectation that teens will do this in a significant way. An adult who is free to do anything and chooses to spend a lot of time gaming has a higher opportunity cost and a higher likelyhood of regret later.
  - FalconSensei 4y ago
    > You could get a job and start saving or investing, or study harder and advance your education more quickly I see this more of a waste of teenage years time than playing videogames with friends
    - WoodenChair 4y ago
      Learning responsibility? Learning how an organization functions? Perhaps learning a skill at the job (customer service, mental math, cooking, etc)? A waste?
      - pharrington 4y ago
        > Learning responsibility? Learning how an organization functions? Perhaps learning a skill at the job (customer service, mental math, cooking, etc)? A waste? but enough about being in an MMO guild
        ElemenoPicuares 4y ago
        I see people argue for the real-world skills gaming affords— but when the biggest risk is embarrassment among people you’ll never meet, and the primary real world reward is inadvertently exercising a few organizational muscles in a vastly different context from the real world, I just don’t see it. Not saying there’s no benefit, but it’s not even in the same ballpark as actual work experience.
    - meowtimemania 4y ago
- chrischen 4y ago
  I think the key here is the regret. Is playing games alone, or with friends really that much different from some other activity, such as traveling, alone, or with friends? Sure you learn while traveling, but also get good at gaming the more you do it. You can even substitute traveling with some other hobby (playing the guitar, building legos, etc). Some may argue that the guitar is a "useful" skill but I'd argue that gaming can be a useful skill in the same sense.
ge96 4y ago
There is also that aspect where doing the same thing everyday makes time seem short. Versus doing something new, which yeah do you have the money to take a vacation. Everytime I finish a project I ask myself was it worth it. It's like buying a new device, you want it until you have it.
888666 4y ago
Could that possibly be a failure on the part of your future self rather than on your past self?
- izzydata 4y ago
  I think I am correct in my judgement that playing World of Warcraft for 300+ days of playtime was not a good use of my time. It is a failure of my past self for thinking that was a good idea. People make mistakes all the time. I don't believe anyone who says they have no regrets at all. You live with them though.
qwertox 4y ago
Before I started with my daily sports routine, at least one hour of biking outside every day (unless it's impossible due to health or schedule, but laziness, tiredness or season/temperature is not an excuse), I noticed that I have wasted the possibly best years of my life in front of a screen. Now I get to pick up what's left over and make the best out of it. I really wish I had started with it when I was in my 20s, ideally as an early teenager or even kid, when breaking some bones is not something which keeps you concerned for many weeks. I wish I could drive into the alps and ride the trails, but I'm currently "recovering" from a crash which ripped a tendon. In quotes because it can't really be fixed and I have to see if the system is still usable enough. But it is enough for having a lot of fun outside. Today at 17:00 I was completely tired laying in my bed after watching hours of a TV series, half asleep and feeling badly rested, was struggling to motivate me to ride. But at 18:00 I pulled myself up and went, and I had a blast during those 1:30 hours, was even making screams of joy (I ride alone, so it's no show, but a feedback expression to myself). I was congratulating me for making the decision to go and ride, had super beautiful views of the nature at wonderful 27°C (80°F). Dry but planted fields, juicy green forests, sounds of birds and insects, breathable, clean air, warm wind being felt by the hairs on the legs and arms, what an experience. I have a lavalier mic attached to my backpack's breast strap and an app where I can press record, to record notes of 1 minute length. I will quote you one of the recordings from today: rec60s--1656265743723--19-49-03.q128.mp3: "Well, thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you that you overcame yourself to then get up, go out and ride the bike, because it was really, really nice! Thank you very much! It was good, it was worth it, you have to do this, always, always. Always force you to do this. Regardless of how weary, how tired, how uninspired, you rode extra. Extra, because it was so nice. Other ways, new ways, new trails" With "extra" I meant that I had initially decided to ride my minimum of 23 km in a relatively dull track which I know I will be able to complete under any circumstances (except when I have migraine), but then decided to leave the asphalt, ride up a hill through a forest into some fields, where I then took this photo. https://imgur.com/a/HGQ55kQ https://imgur.com/a/HGQ55kQ Maybe I'm a psycho for talking to me like that, but I know that I switch contexts very hard so that I'm a different person when I do different things and tend to forget the experiences. So this was a "thank you" and reminder from the biking me to the baseline me. Usually I only record new ideas or things I get reminded of which I forgot. I wasn't really sure if I was going to ride today, I didn't yesterday, because I rode so hard and long distances last week that by butt was really hurting, and no amount deer tallow cream (Xenofit Second Skin) seemed to be helping. But it turned out that I had zero issues with it today. Most of the riding time is a relatively hard exercise with heavy breathing and lots of sweating. No video game will ever be a replacement for such a thing. But I know that I very likely already have my best years behind me (and lost them to a screen).
eikenberry 4y ago
Regret isn't an problem with your past, it is a problem with your current self's opinion of the past. You are judging your past self based on your current self but that is unfair and you might want to think how that impacts your life going forward. Making decisions based on what you think your future self will approve of doesn't seem like it'd have the best results.
- rowanG077 4y ago
  I vehemently disagree. Making decisions based on your future self would like is most generally the best thing you can do. Maybe you should really go out for a run even though you don't want to. Your future self will thank you. Maybe you should start working on that thing that is due soon. Your future self will thank you. And there are countless more examples. The practically write themselves.
  - cgriswald 4y ago
    The examples you've given here are both extremely short term and are presumably things that help you achieve goals now-you wants. I know what I want for myself in five years. I don't and to large degree can't know what me-in-five-years will wish I had wanted. My approach is to go for the things I want for myself now, while always being cognizant of providing options and opportunities for the future. It's not perfect, and it never will be because I don't have perfect foresight. But it works well enough.
  - eikenberry 4y ago
    None of those are future in a planning sense. They are immediate goals with immediate impacts. Getting exercise regularly pays off almost immediately and continues to pay of day to day. Finishing a project today has the immediate reward of finishing it and not having to worry about it anymore. The example was your 10 year from now self. And while you might come up with some 10-year span anecdotes, I don't see it being a good heuristic for living your life in general.
    - rowanG077 4y ago
Aeolun 4y ago
> I thought the same thing 10 years ago when I was spending years playing games and having fun. Now it feels like I wasted a colossal amount of time no matter how much fun it was at the time. I don’t think you should blame yourself for ‘wasting’ that time. I’m sure past you would have considered it a waste to do what you do now. There’s many things I may wanted to do differently, but I’d never actually do so since they brought me where I am now.
cortic 4y ago
In my thirties i regret not working more in my twenties, and in my forties i regret not working more in my thirties. However upon introspection, i realize that this regret is always based on not wanting to work more now. edit; to quote "The Idler" from the RT-11 operation system kernel source code (and my new favorite quote).."To be idle is the ultimate purpose of the busy"
- vwcx 4y ago
  That quote parallels something that sticks with me from Umair Haque about how "the point of capitalism is to escape capitalism": https://kottke.org/18/10/if-the-point-of-capitalism-is-to-escape-capitalism-then-whats-the-point-of-capitalism https://kottke.org/18/10/if-the-point-of-capitalism-is-to-es...
arvinsim 4y ago
Felt the same. I felt that if I poured that time to my other passion, music, I would be much more fulfilled now.

orobinson 4y ago

Interesting. I was very into PC gaming in my teens and look back on that time quite fondly. Certainly not with any regret or a feeling that I wasted my time.

whiplash451 4y ago
Same here. If you're saying "that time I spend gaming was wasted time", you'd better have a really good story about what you would have done instead, excluding any kind of hindsight magic.
- april_22 4y ago
  I don't think there's anything bad with gaming in your free time - at any age. In the end, why shouldn't one just enjoy whatever life's possibilities are? It's obviously important to keep all other areas of life under control, but what's bad about enjoying doing something - even if it's not productive - especially when you're young. This is quite philosphical, but I've found the idea of optimistic nihilism very helpful for having an overall more relaxed view on life https://you.com/search?q=optimistic+nihilism https://you.com/search?q=optimistic+nihilism
  - agent008t 4y ago
    Why "especially when you're young"? Arguably, any consumption activities are better done when old, and investment activities when young. Effort when young pays off with tons of compounding over your lifespan. Effort when old is not as important, and so pure consumption non-productive activities are probably better enjoyed when old, are they not? Especially if it is something like videogames that doesn't exactly require some great physical abilities.
- ajmurmann 4y ago
  There are a ton of low-effort forms of entertainment available today. It's easy for them to dominate choice. If you take those away, other things will emerge and grab your interest. If you are even a remotely interested person you'll find stuff. A few months ago I was at the beach without as much technology access and enjoyed it so much that I put myself on a media diet after. I suddenly felt more excitement about programming projects I had started but not finished, reading books, cello practice, little projects around my house and garden. One thing all these things had in common is that they left be feeling better when I was done with them. That just doesn't happen for me with most video games and movies. But it's just so much easier to fall into the couch and watch Netflix or grab the controller.
  - wruza 4y ago
    I really think this thread has to specify the types of video games it speaks about. Because games range from CoD-like X-to-Win shooters with endless changing backgrounds to something more elaborate and harder than real life activities, while being relatively short.
    - ajmurmann 4y ago
      You are right that this makes a difference. I think the difference might be relatively small though. At best the experience can be comparable to having read a great fiction book (Disco Elysium, Life is Strange) or a good social experience like playing with your friends online while using voice chat. Online games with total strangers can be challenging and fun, but also a blur. I've spent way too much time playing Rocket League for example and my experience in hindsight would have been the same off I had only played for like 5-10 hours. And then there are pretend-work games like Factorio, Kerbal Space Program or even more obvious Zachtronic games like Shenzhen IO. The latter might be great exercise for non-programmers, but you don't actually accomplish anything and still exhausted the same parts of your brain.
  - throwaway2037 4y ago
    I like this post. It rings a bell with me when you wrote: <<But it's just so much easier to fall into the couch and watch Netflix or grab the controller.>> I cannot put a finger on it, but what is the difference between (a) reading a newspaper, magazine, book (fiction or non-fiction) and (b) playing video games or streaming films / TV shows? I cannot put a finger on it, but (a) reading activates some part of my brain that (b) streaming does not. Why? I'm not sure. I never read any research about it. One thing I can say: Watching documentaries is different than other stuff. Again: Not sure why. It might only be me and my brain that feels this way. Also, this part: <<I suddenly felt more excitement about programming projects I had started but not finished, reading books, cello practice, little projects around my house and garden.>> Again, I cannot put a finger on it, but what really is the difference between these activities and playing video games or streaming films / TV shows? On the surface, not much, but the emotional satisfaction is so different when finishing a cello piece or novel versus a streamed season of a TV show.
- watwut 4y ago
  > you'd better have a really good story about what you would have done instead, excluding any kind of hindsight magic. Nah, that is not how it works. Effectively, you want people to tell you about some grand plan they would executed it, if they did not played. The way it works when you stop gaming/reading too much facebook etc is that you start being more active in other areas. You get more fit, you suddenly read more about history without planning to, you do crafts here and there, learn to draw or play music instrument on and off. And overall you feel calmer, more creative, sleep better. And after after months/years it accumulate and you look back happy. It does not feel wasted, cause you have that picture on the wall, your dad has your the thing you created, you are really proud about that song you can play.
xhrpost 4y ago
Same. If anything, my teen gaming years may have helped get me through school.
SoftTalker 4y ago
Because there isn't that much else to do as a teen. The opportunity cost of spending time on gaming is low. You could get a job and start saving or investing, or study harder and advance your education more quickly, but it's not the expectation that teens will do this in a significant way. An adult who is free to do anything and chooses to spend a lot of time gaming has a higher opportunity cost and a higher likelyhood of regret later.
- FalconSensei 4y ago
  > You could get a job and start saving or investing, or study harder and advance your education more quickly I see this more of a waste of teenage years time than playing videogames with friends
  - WoodenChair 4y ago
    Learning responsibility? Learning how an organization functions? Perhaps learning a skill at the job (customer service, mental math, cooking, etc)? A waste?
    - pharrington 4y ago
      > Learning responsibility? Learning how an organization functions? Perhaps learning a skill at the job (customer service, mental math, cooking, etc)? A waste? but enough about being in an MMO guild
      - ElemenoPicuares 4y ago
        I see people argue for the real-world skills gaming affords— but when the biggest risk is embarrassment among people you’ll never meet, and the primary real world reward is inadvertently exercising a few organizational muscles in a vastly different context from the real world, I just don’t see it. Not saying there’s no benefit, but it’s not even in the same ballpark as actual work experience.
  - meowtimemania 4y ago
chrischen 4y ago
I think the key here is the regret. Is playing games alone, or with friends really that much different from some other activity, such as traveling, alone, or with friends? Sure you learn while traveling, but also get good at gaming the more you do it. You can even substitute traveling with some other hobby (playing the guitar, building legos, etc). Some may argue that the guitar is a "useful" skill but I'd argue that gaming can be a useful skill in the same sense.

ge96 4y ago

There is also that aspect where doing the same thing everyday makes time seem short. Versus doing something new, which yeah do you have the money to take a vacation. Everytime I finish a project I ask myself was it worth it. It's like buying a new device, you want it until you have it.

888666 4y ago

Could that possibly be a failure on the part of your future self rather than on your past self?

izzydata 4y ago
I think I am correct in my judgement that playing World of Warcraft for 300+ days of playtime was not a good use of my time. It is a failure of my past self for thinking that was a good idea. People make mistakes all the time. I don't believe anyone who says they have no regrets at all. You live with them though.

qwertox 4y ago

Before I started with my daily sports routine, at least one hour of biking outside every day (unless it's impossible due to health or schedule, but laziness, tiredness or season/temperature is not an excuse), I noticed that I have wasted the possibly best years of my life in front of a screen. Now I get to pick up what's left over and make the best out of it. I really wish I had started with it when I was in my 20s, ideally as an early teenager or even kid, when breaking some bones is not something which keeps you concerned for many weeks. I wish I could drive into the alps and ride the trails, but I'm currently "recovering" from a crash which ripped a tendon. In quotes because it can't really be fixed and I have to see if the system is still usable enough. But it is enough for having a lot of fun outside. Today at 17:00 I was completely tired laying in my bed after watching hours of a TV series, half asleep and feeling badly rested, was struggling to motivate me to ride. But at 18:00 I pulled myself up and went, and I had a blast during those 1:30 hours, was even making screams of joy (I ride alone, so it's no show, but a feedback expression to myself). I was congratulating me for making the decision to go and ride, had super beautiful views of the nature at wonderful 27°C (80°F). Dry but planted fields, juicy green forests, sounds of birds and insects, breathable, clean air, warm wind being felt by the hairs on the legs and arms, what an experience. I have a lavalier mic attached to my backpack's breast strap and an app where I can press record, to record notes of 1 minute length. I will quote you one of the recordings from today: rec60s--1656265743723--19-49-03.q128.mp3: "Well, thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you that you overcame yourself to then get up, go out and ride the bike, because it was really, really nice! Thank you very much! It was good, it was worth it, you have to do this, always, always. Always force you to do this. Regardless of how weary, how tired, how uninspired, you rode extra. Extra, because it was so nice. Other ways, new ways, new trails" With "extra" I meant that I had initially decided to ride my minimum of 23 km in a relatively dull track which I know I will be able to complete under any circumstances (except when I have migraine), but then decided to leave the asphalt, ride up a hill through a forest into some fields, where I then took this photo. https://imgur.com/a/HGQ55kQ https://imgur.com/a/HGQ55kQ Maybe I'm a psycho for talking to me like that, but I know that I switch contexts very hard so that I'm a different person when I do different things and tend to forget the experiences. So this was a "thank you" and reminder from the biking me to the baseline me. Usually I only record new ideas or things I get reminded of which I forgot. I wasn't really sure if I was going to ride today, I didn't yesterday, because I rode so hard and long distances last week that by butt was really hurting, and no amount deer tallow cream (Xenofit Second Skin) seemed to be helping. But it turned out that I had zero issues with it today. Most of the riding time is a relatively hard exercise with heavy breathing and lots of sweating. No video game will ever be a replacement for such a thing. But I know that I very likely already have my best years behind me (and lost them to a screen).

eikenberry 4y ago

Regret isn't an problem with your past, it is a problem with your current self's opinion of the past. You are judging your past self based on your current self but that is unfair and you might want to think how that impacts your life going forward. Making decisions based on what you think your future self will approve of doesn't seem like it'd have the best results.

rowanG077 4y ago
I vehemently disagree. Making decisions based on your future self would like is most generally the best thing you can do. Maybe you should really go out for a run even though you don't want to. Your future self will thank you. Maybe you should start working on that thing that is due soon. Your future self will thank you. And there are countless more examples. The practically write themselves.
- cgriswald 4y ago
  The examples you've given here are both extremely short term and are presumably things that help you achieve goals now-you wants. I know what I want for myself in five years. I don't and to large degree can't know what me-in-five-years will wish I had wanted. My approach is to go for the things I want for myself now, while always being cognizant of providing options and opportunities for the future. It's not perfect, and it never will be because I don't have perfect foresight. But it works well enough.
- eikenberry 4y ago
  None of those are future in a planning sense. They are immediate goals with immediate impacts. Getting exercise regularly pays off almost immediately and continues to pay of day to day. Finishing a project today has the immediate reward of finishing it and not having to worry about it anymore. The example was your 10 year from now self. And while you might come up with some 10-year span anecdotes, I don't see it being a good heuristic for living your life in general.
  - rowanG077 4y ago

Aeolun 4y ago

> I thought the same thing 10 years ago when I was spending years playing games and having fun. Now it feels like I wasted a colossal amount of time no matter how much fun it was at the time. I don’t think you should blame yourself for ‘wasting’ that time. I’m sure past you would have considered it a waste to do what you do now. There’s many things I may wanted to do differently, but I’d never actually do so since they brought me where I am now.

cortic 4y ago

In my thirties i regret not working more in my twenties, and in my forties i regret not working more in my thirties. However upon introspection, i realize that this regret is always based on not wanting to work more now. edit; to quote "The Idler" from the RT-11 operation system kernel source code (and my new favorite quote).."To be idle is the ultimate purpose of the busy"

vwcx 4y ago
That quote parallels something that sticks with me from Umair Haque about how "the point of capitalism is to escape capitalism": https://kottke.org/18/10/if-the-point-of-capitalism-is-to-escape-capitalism-then-whats-the-point-of-capitalism https://kottke.org/18/10/if-the-point-of-capitalism-is-to-es...

arvinsim 4y ago

Felt the same. I felt that if I poured that time to my other passion, music, I would be much more fulfilled now.