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Ohio State University secures trademark for use of the word 'THE' on clothing
- ericmay 4y agoColumbus resident here :) I saw this as well, it only applies to sports apparel and goods: > “Ohio State is pleased to have received a trademark for THE on branded products associated with and sold through athletics and collegiate channels,” They don't literally have a trademark on the word. And if you follow sports the "THE Ohio State University" with an emphasis on "THE" is a thing that is associated with the university. They sell shirts with "THE" in all caps with the university colors and such. I'd say that if you find this distasteful, I think you're better served arguing against patents and trademarks in general since this seems to my very biased eyes to be reasonable based on the current system we have.
- ziddoap 4y ago>I'd say that if you find this distasteful, I think you're better served arguing against patents and trademarks in general since this seems to my very biased eyes to be reasonable based on the current system we have. What better way to argue against the absurdity of many patents and trademarks, in general, than to argue against some entity being able to trademark the most common word in the English language! It's a perfect example of how broken the entire space is.
- DiggyJohnson 4y agoI’m not sure you’re engaging with the previous comment. In the realm of college football appears, THE is quite reasonable associated with OSU.
- ziddoap 4y ago>I’m not sure you’re engaging with the previous comment. What do you mean? I understand that some people associate "THE" with OSU. That's great, really. That does not mean they should be granted a trademark on the most common word in the English language across an entire category of clothing (or, for anything). Capitalized or not, whether you like football or not, and whether you think it's reasonably associated with OSU or not is immaterial. They were granted a trademark on the most common word in the English language, and that's dumb.
- technothrasher 4y agoI’m not sure I’ve ever in my life seen a sports garment (or any garment, actually) with solely the word “the” printed on it. So to object on the ground that it is “common” seems pretty shaky. If they tried to go after any use of the word on garment, that would be an obvious overreach. But establishing a trademark on the use of it by itself, given the lack of prior use, sounds reasonable.
- drummojg 4y agoOne would be, Richard Bland College of The College of William & Mary. I'd point out "The College of William & Mary" except it is no longer in their (e: W&M's) branding standards, but it is the official name since it's on the royal charter. Which was granted in 1693. I wonder if that came up in the review.
- tedunangst 4y agoDoes William and Mary sell T-shirts with only the word "the" on them?
- mirntyfirty 4y agoI don’t see a reason that they should be prevented from doing so.
- tedunangst 4y agoThey're not prevented from doing anything. WM sells a "the" t-shirt, OSU sues, WM counter files an anti slapp suit, proves "the" is just a word. Profits from t-shirt sales, profits from lawsuit damages, instant fucking win win.
- hulitu 4y ago> I’m not sure you’re engaging with the previous comment. In the realm of college football appears, THE is quite reasonable associated with OSU. OSU ? Never heard about it. But this happened in the same country which trademarked Windows
- ChrisLomont 4y agoWindows is trademarked for certain things, like pink is trademarked for sugar replacement packets - this is not a problem. There are still plenty of places that sell things called windows without legal hassle, and plenty of things that are pink without legal hassle. Trademarks are usually restricted to tiny, tiny slices of the complete, generic meaning of the trademarked term. Exactly how many sports clothing items were being sold with only the word "THE" (all caps) on them?
- SkyBelow 4y agoDespite my family being fans of college football and going to a college that has the main college football rivalry in my state, I have no memory or inclination of there being any association between THE and OSU. I'm not certain I can agree it is a reasonable association.
- ancientworldnow 4y agoWent to a national champion college football school and everyone just says Ohio State. I've never heard THE used to refer to OSU in my life but maybe I'm not a big enough fan (or care about big 10 football over the sec).
- dfxm12 4y agoIs just reasonable association enough? Doesn't have to be unique, or distinguishable in some way? After all, if you watch nationally televised Football games, tons of players say they're from "the" X university. Thomas Davis says "The" University of Georgia here, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYoW8J9wRrI&t=20s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYoW8J9wRrI&t=20s (20 sec in). Davis would later go on to play for The Washington Football Team.
- Spivak 4y agoThis misunderstands trademarks. Trademarks don’t mean you own the word or words being trademarked, they mean that you successfully registered the word as representing your business/firm/trade in the categories your business operates in. There’s no need for them to be unique words, Apple, Ghost, Monster, Bang (sorry my mind is stuck on energy drinks) are all trademarked. It’s the legal equivalent of having the name “the” on NPM.
- ziddoap 4y agoSo, if I am misunderstanding, can you explain to me what happens if I have some sportswear that I sell which has the word "the" on it, written in capital letters? For example, sportswear that says "THE SPORTSBALL TEAM".
- thefoyer 4y agoLiterally nothing
- joshuamorton 4y agoNothing at all. It would be an issue if the shirt was only THE in all caps, and nothing else. And even then it might not be an issue if it were in pink and orange (although it still might). The analogy with npm works: thesportsballteam is a distinct package.
- ziddoap 4y agoThe possibility that I can't put "THE", literally the most common word, on a hat or other sportswear sort of makes my point. Absolutely absurd trademark.
- et2o 4y agoThat's not true at all, though. Y9u can absolutely do that as long as it's not in red and grey and sold in places customary to collegiate athletics.
- tablespoon 4y ago> What better way to argue against the absurdity of many patents and trademarks, in general, than to argue against some entity being able to trademark the most common word in the English language! Except that argument seems to rest on a misunderstanding. They didn't trademark the word, they trademarked the word in a specific context (https://www.gerbenlaw.com/trademarks/universities/the-ohio-state-university/#88571984 https://www.gerbenlaw.com/trademarks/universities/the-ohio-s...): > IC 025. US 022 039. G & S Clothing, namely, t-shirts, baseball caps and hats; all of the foregoing being promoted, distributed, and sold through channels customary to the field of sports and collegiate athletics. FIRST USE: 20050800. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050800. Frankly, the way they seem to use it is really odd (https://www.diehardsport.com/college-football/ohio-state-big-10/ohio-state-is-selling-hats-with-just-the-on-them/ https://www.diehardsport.com/college-football/ohio-state-big...). In English, "the" doesn't even really make sense as a standalone word, so I really doubt this trademark conflicts with anything.
- ziddoap 4y agoFunny enough, I actually know that it's in the context of clothing! Even better, I've spent a non-trivial amount of time dealing with trademark lawyers and getting a better grasp of trademark and patent law in the past several years -- so despite what some people seem to think, I'm not a complete idiot who is just misunderstanding everything. And I still think this is absurd.
- tablespoon 4y ago> Funny enough, I actually know that it's in the context of clothing! Even better, I've spent a non-trivial amount of time dealing with trademark lawyers and getting a better grasp of trademark and patent law in the past several years -- so despite what some people seem to think, I'm not a complete idiot who is just misunderstanding everything. You made none of that clear in your comment. Your comment read like you think no common words should not be trademarkable, so it would be interesting to know where you think the boundary should be and why it should be there. > And I still think this is absurd. We'll, to me, it doesn't seem any more absurd than Apple being able to trademark the word "Apple." The word identifies them in certain narrow contexts, so it makes sense that they can gain the right to prevent others from impersonating them in those narrow contexts, so long as any prior use is respected.
- colechristensen 4y agoConsidering they were in a fight with fashion brand Marc Jacobs, it really sounds like your emphasis on the association with the school name isn't as close as you claim. They really do seem to have a trademark on the word "the" when associated with clothing, which is profoundly stupid. It is not a case of trademarking their school name with an article in front, but just the article itself. I don't feel like looking for the actual trademark or court documents.
- smegsicle 4y agosays here that tosu has been using it since 2005, and only pursued trademark after marc jacobs filed for one in 2019
- pkulak 4y agoAs someone from the state of Oregon (home to THE Oregon State University), I find this very distasteful indeed.
- tshaddox 4y agoThis is, of course, how all trademarks work. A trademark violation only occurs if a consumer is reasonably likely to be confused about the origin of a product.
- colechristensen 4y agoIdeally, but there is a tendency for overreach by the courts and much broader harassment by lawyers "protecting" trademarks.
- tshaddox 4y agoThat may be, but just make the actual argument against trademarks or for a massive overhaul of the trademark system. Don't make sensational arguments about how absurd it is "for a university to own one of the most common words in the English language" when that's not true and when your actual point is "there are some fundamental problems with our trademark system."
- Adverblessly 4y ago> I'd say that if you find this distasteful, I think you're better served arguing against patents and trademarks in general since this seems to my very biased eyes to be reasonable based on the current system we have. If anything I find trademarks to be the least unreasonable part of the whole IP nonsense. As an example, it seems absurd to me that Disney gets to decide in which works Spiderman can or can't appear (or is that Sony? Why??) when that character is part of our shared culture. At the same time, if anyone can put Spiderman in their stuff, you should at least be able to tell which version of Spiderman you are seeing and if it is an "official" production or an alternate take, and it seems like some form of Trademark could help here.
- jaywalk 4y agoFuck this patent and OSU in general. -Michigan fan
- dctoedt 4y agoNot a patent, a trademark - big big difference.
- listenallyall 4y agoThe guy went to Michigan. Can't expect much.
- jaywalk 4y agoI suppose I had that coming after making that mistake.
- tyleo 4y agoTHE. - OSU fan
- bell-cot 4y agoNote that [The University of] Michigan claims a trademark on their "block letter M", and quite a few other things: https://brand.umich.edu/trademarks-permissions/trademarks/ https://brand.umich.edu/trademarks-permissions/trademarks/
- jaywalk 4y agoWell, yeah. That's their logo. It's not like they trademarked the letter "M" itself.
- collegeburner 4y agoThis is THE shittiest ruling. I am fine with IP in most cases but THE court is wrong on this one. Oh and tangentially related but Ohio state is super fucking annoying with their constant insistence that their name be prefixed with "the". It's like the inverse of Apple demanding their product be called just "iphone". They have THE worst superiority complex for a school who still has more losses to Michigan than wins.
- bombcar 4y agoI mean if we can have a trademark on The Apple I don't see why A Ohio State University can't get one on A.
- hulitu 4y agoWait until they legalize it and then claim a trademark on "THE SHIT"
- collegeburner 4y agoBecause it would bother all us grammar nerds who would change it to An Ohio State University :)
- jrs235 4y agoIts why I always intentionally say "Where? Ohio State University?" And emphasize that I didn't say THE in front of it.
- ovulator 4y agoGo Blue.
- bsilvereagle 4y agoBackground on the “THE”: https://library.osu.edu/archives/faq#1 https://library.osu.edu/archives/faq#1
- LinuxBender 4y agoStrange, but I am still not sold on the idea that Apple® owns Apple so as far as I am concerned the word THE is available for any use.
- bombcar 4y agoA trademark just means you have a limited right of usage in a defined area (of course, Apple's continues to get larger and larger, but other Apple companies exist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Records https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Records https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Leisure_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Leisure_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Bank_for_Savings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Bank_for_Savings and the word apple is available for various other things, too).
- cardiffspaceman 4y agoApple Records is a division of Apple Corps Ltd, though. The other two are not related to the former Beatles.
- LinuxBender 4y agoOh I get it, I just don't ascribe to this concept at all. I believe a word, symbol or logo should be truly unique before some legal restriction could be placed on it.
- bombcar 4y agoYeah, I feel trademarks should be limited to things like "Farmer Bob's Old Tyme Remedy" or random strings of characters rather than simple, single words.
- tshaddox 4y agoDo you think it should be legal to deliberately deceive consumers that a product you produce is actually produced by a well-known reputable company?
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- bombcar 4y agoThe real question is would you pronounce it "thuh" or "thee".
- ckardat123 4y agoIt's always pronounced "thee" afaik
- Ruthalas 4y agoIn some contexts (ex: vocal performances), the word may be pronounced 'thee' prior to words beginning with vowels, and 'thuh' prior to words beginning with consonants.
- Spivak 4y agoGrew up in Ohio, it’s THEE <pause> Ohio State University and it’s reached the stage where people use it pretty much as a joke just like “Butt for Ohio State.”
- macinjosh 4y agoOh, That Ohio State University
- colechristensen 4y agoJust don't confused Miami University (Ohio) with University of Miami (Florida). There was a comment a few days ago from a sad European student that had made that mistake hoping for a university with plentiful beaches and nice warm weather.
- fennecfoxen 4y agoMiami University (Oxford, Ohio) just for overkill. I would also like to draw attention to the distinction between Wake Forest University (of Winston-Salem, NC, via GSO airport) and Wake Forest, NC (closer to RDU airport). The latter was of course the home of the original Wake Forest Baptist Manual Labor Institute. I’ve had to pick someone up at the wrong airport, you see. It was quite a drive.
- dylan604 4y agoWell, Justin Timberlake will come around and tell them to drop the word The from their name and forever be immortalized.
- yxwvut 4y agoOr, as their football opponents mockingly know them, "AN Ohio State University".
- dctoedt 4y agoUm, UT Austin used "The University" (typically in our burnt-orange color and/or with a particular script) decades ago for window decals and the like.
- bigbillheck 4y agoThere's a clear difference between 'THE' and 'The University'.
- AnimalMuppet 4y agoIf you think OSU won't see red (see what I did there?) over a shirt with "The University" on it, I think you don't know lawyers. In fact, I wish that Texas would deliberately do this, just to rub it in OSU's face. But then, I don't have to pay for their bills for the lawsuit that would happen...
- boardwaalk 4y agoI do a lot of busywork and I still can’t imagine being the lawyer tasked with fighting for this or even the person tasking that lawyer. What a horrible waste of time for all involved. Somebody in the chain at some point shoulda stood up and said, “Nah, this is stupid,” and walked out.
- faangiq 4y agoSomeone is getting promoted for this 100%.
- cobertos 4y agoThey say the "The" is so important to their brand yet everyone in the article, the comments, the quote from OSU in the article, all use "Ohio State" or "OSU". Found that mildly ironic
- gnicholas 4y agoRelated, a bakery in the Bay Area trademarked "mochi muffins" and was sending C&D letters to other bakeries. This left a bad taste in the mouths of many customers, and after a series of articles in the SF Chronicle, [1] the bakery promised to abandon the trademark. As a former lawyer, albeit one who never specialized in trademark, I was surprised they were able to pass the bar of descriptiveness. You can't trademark "red chair" for use marketing a red chair since it's just describing the thing. 1: https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/Following-backlash-Bay-Area-bakery-to-get-rid-of-17235521.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/article/Following-backlash-...
- philipov 4y agoThe people who approved the trademark probably didn't realize mochi is a word that means rice cake, rather than a random sequence of syllables. Since the US doesn't have an official language, it being a japanese word should pose no barrier to it being a valid descriptive term.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- spaceywilly 4y agoWhat a remarkably stupid and petty thing to argue about
- fsckboy 4y agoTHE... ...more interesting part of this article for the people arguing against it is THE granting of THE Marc Jacobs trademark, as that one is not restricted to the athletic market.
- JoeAltmaier 4y agoIntel has the trademark on the lower-case letter 'i'. So not really a new thing.
- AnimalMuppet 4y agoIf I understand correctly (or perhaps my information is dated), Intel only has it on iXXX, where XXX are digits. Apple has it on iXXX, where XXX are "Pod", "Pad", and "Phone".
- lakis 4y agoDid you know that there is a band called "The The" Yes, this is true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_The. They exist since 1979 . They made it to position 2 in the UK chart. The obviously have a trademark for "The The" in music. I used to work in search engines. When you decide to implement stop words, one of the first you define for English is of course the word "the". And then you learn of the band "The The" and you have to design a completely different architecture in order to handle exceptions to the stop word list ;-)
- sarora27 4y agoAs an OSU Alum, it's embarrassing how much of a cult mentality exists around OSU sports. This is literally the dumbest use of university resources and reflects what the admin (an ever growing, bloated bureaucracy) considers important.