25 ms·

Web 3 is Flawed

171 points by ravivyas 4y ago

edem 4y ago
TL;DR -> just ignore this post as it has no substance and it has no arguments. It is just a rant about something which is not clear, but not even examples are given to make their point.
- johnmarcus 4y ago
  What do you mean he didn't give examples? Just throw a dart at any web3 project, and there is your example.
  - edem 4y ago
    Please throw that dart and I'll refute whatever you have to say.
  - dubswithus 4y ago
    Most HN commenters have zero knowledge of cryptocurrency and they are proud of that fact. That's lazy.
    - rvz 4y ago
      Or even proud of sitting on extremely absolutist statements like 100% of all of it is going to be wiped out, or even the other side suggesting that everything is going to take over the current system. Both outcomes are simply not going to happen and those supporting either of those outcomes will be disappointed. Co-existence with the current system is the most highly likely outcome with some cryptocurrency projects staying around and meme-coins, tokens will disappear even after regulations coming in.
api 4y ago
As with all things crypto, the product is number go up... until it doesn't, and by then the insiders have taken profits. Rinse and repeat.
- EGreg 4y ago
  Web3 sucks, yes. But that’s because it’s based on blockchain. Web5 won’t be. Not all things crypto are about speculation and number go up. Many projects have added tokens for utility. THOSE projects are eventually going to be far better than their Web2 counterparts. By the people, not just for the people IPFS team released Filecoin to let you store files in more than one “cloud” company like AWS or GCP or Azure. MaidSAFE goes way further. They are building the ultimate in decentralized, uncensorable networks. Jack Dorsey’s Web5 is using really good technologies like Microsoft’s ION (sidetree protovol) for identity, etc. Okay and now for the part that will get me downvotes… I started two companies in 2010 and 2017 respectively, to build open source software and give it away on GitHub. I built them for Web2 ans Web3 to decentralize social networks, payment systems, voting, governance and more. Because communities need to run their own open source software, rather than relying on states and corporations. Otherwise our communications and transactions will be taking place on privately owned and centrally planned platforms. If you want to know the details… click here: https://qbix.com/ecosystem https://qbix.com/ecosystem https://intercoin.org/applications https://intercoin.org/applications PS: before downvoting me, actually look at this. It is not shilling any tokens. It is actually BUILT open source solutions, on github, that you can take and use today. If you don’t like something, at least comment and use your words before downvoting.
  - SilverBirch 4y ago
    Just to be clear, how many planets does the InterPlanetary File System operate on?
    - moralestapia 4y ago
      Honestly, IPFS is one of the very few things I would vouch for from that ecosystem.
    - randomhodler84 4y ago
      Soon, from space, which is a good start: https://filecoinfoundation.medium.com/filecoin-foundation-and-lockheed-martin-bring-decentralized-storage-to-space-db9a15e66264 https://filecoinfoundation.medium.com/filecoin-foundation-an...
seibelj 4y ago
My world view, summarized to the simplest term, is “incentives”. You can find places and times where people act altruistically. We all do it regularly. We most reliably act altruistically when it comes to our own families, with our children as the highest recipient of our altruism. When you get beyond the immediate family, relying on altruism as the organizing principle starts to break down. Societies that provide incentives for delivering value to other citizens - going to work, doing a job, becoming wealthy if you drastically improve society - will win long term over those that provide disincentives to hard work and providing value. Web3 and crypto provide artificial scarcity to digital goods. This is an experiment in economics. I believe providing economic incentives, when properly aligned with the tasks desired, can result in a more efficient and successful internet. Relying solely on volunteers in any group has very rarely worked - even the largest non-profits have highly paid directors and legions of paid employees. This is not some revolutionary idea, other than the fact that digital goods can have artificial scarcity.
- nh23423fefe 4y ago
  But using the word scarcity seems to try and piggyback on what we all know scarce goods are. Goods become scarce because of excess demand or difficulty with production. A real finite thing. what is scarce about tokens? the hash? why are they desired, for speculative investing?
  - throw_nbvc1234 4y ago
    "Excess demand" can be a 1st or 2nd order effect. If you artificially limit supply then a consistent amount of demand will suddenly become excessive.
  - jsmith45 4y ago
    No, think scarcity in the "artificial scarcity" sense where only 1000 copies of a certain handbag were made so they can market it as "limited edition" and demand a higher price than if they were making as many as they could.
    - 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ryandvm 4y ago
Don't encourage them. There is no Web3 and if there ever is, it's not fucking blockchain apps. What these hucksters call Web3 is the digital equivalent of essential oils. Blockchain apps have no real productive use beyond selling them to each other. Calling the whole thing Web3 was a fairly transparent grasp at trying to legitimize the whole charade.
- Stevvo 4y ago
  Take a look at https://gitcoin.co/ https://gitcoin.co/ and try and tell me that is not a "real productive use".
  - malermeister 4y ago
    Looked at it, was a bunch of crypto buzzwords. If there's a productive use, it escapes me.
    - FinalBriefing 4y ago
      lol > Gitcoin grants quadratic funding is not just for funds allocation, it's also a great signaling tool!
    - tauwauwau 4y ago
      From the gitcoin footer: Gitcoin is a platform where you get paid to work on open source software in Python, Rust, Ruby, JavaScript, Solidity, HTML, CSS, Design, and more. I'm assuming that payment is in some crypto token/currency.
      - malermeister 4y ago
        That sentence sounds good! But why was it hidden all the way down in the footer? Why was the rest of the page vacuous marketing copy that made my brain turn off? And why does any of that need cryptocurrency? Grants for open source work have been around before cryptocurrency even existed.
randomhodler84 4y ago
Nah, missing the point. I’ll still stand by some web3 idea like using an NFT as some kind of license to access a service using web3 auth is a true and valid use case. It doesn’t need a monetary-like token but it does need a single record bound to an address stored eternally. Jpeg NFTs are dumb, cos the record is public. But a singular record that can out of band handle authorizations? Neat.
- BigBubbleButt 4y ago
  > I’ll still stand by some web3 idea like using an NFT as some kind of license to access a service using web3 auth is a true and valid use case. How is this different from setting up a website and requiring a password to access it?
  - randomhodler84 4y ago
    The whole not needing an a&a database part? That’s the onchain part. You don’t need to track authz as it’s just real-time lookups on blockchain state. Rather than maintain and protect a local set of usernames and hashes, you let anyone in who can present signature and address. Then server side you check that address has some NFT. Done. No hashes or usernames or anything.
    - smachiz 4y ago
      How is that actually better? Like, what part of that makes it faster/cheaper/better?
      - randomhodler84 4y ago
        Let’s say I’m a saas vendor that has some web product, it doesn’t need user profiles as such, just gated access. Without need to take credit card payments, one can sell a token that provides access, and know that the api to query its status is going to be stable and eternal. It simplifies a particular use case that I think works.
Animats 4y ago
"Web3" isn't even able to solve problems it's supposed to solve. The big pitch was that you could have non-copyable items which you could move between virtual worlds. The Second Life / Open Simulator ecosystem already has that problem. People looked into NFTs as a way to solve it, and concluded it would not help. You can download content and upload it as new content, perhaps with a minor mod, creating a new object. This is called "copybotting" in Second Life and Open Simulator. As with any copyright violation, you can file DMCA takedown requests if you find a copy of your stuff. Would NFTs stop copybotting? No. They just protect the object's ID, not its content. You can still copy the content. If you want to copy a Bored Ape Yacht Club NFT image and make a poster of it, the NFT system does nothing to stop you. It's not even clear that's a copyright violation in the US, since BAYC images are computer-generated. Many NFTs don't even have an on-chain cryptographic hash of the content, only a URL for some server. Nor do most NFTs have their NFT ID watermarked into the actual content. So the NFT doesn't even give you a verifiable proof of ownership independent of the creator's server. There isn't info that would allow a server to tell if a new image upload is a copy of an existing item. An image search might help, but that doesn't need NFTs. Decentraland's solution to this problem is to charge a $500 "curation fee" to get an object onto their platform, which cuts down content to the point that they can check for duplicates. NFTs are thus useless for their claimed purpose.
- dvt 4y ago
  > They just protect the object's ID, not its content. This is very similar to how DRM works (protects the ID, not the content, hence we need DMCAs if someone tries to illegally stream a movie on YouTube or whatever) and it seems to be doing a pretty good job. In spite of everyone hating it, we have the luxury of Spotify, Netflix, Apple+, etc. because of DRM. NFTs definitely have a use case in gaming and digital collectibles; they also happen to be consumer-friendly (unlike the current status quo of digital collectibles). I wish I could sell my thousands of items in WoW for real money, or my Fornite skins for real money, or my unneeded Magic Arena cards for real money, but I'm locked in their ecosystem. The tokenomnics aspect of Web3 is mainly speculation, which imo also has a use case, but it most likely will be impacted by some much-needed regulation.
  - 4y ago
sorry_outta_gas 4y ago
I've played with it a little bit, there are some cool use-cases here and there but the wild speculation and get-rich quick schemes kill it's usefulness IMO It's likely there will be an iteration of protocols and storage mechanisms that will be more useful in the future I also think "Web3" is probably the dumbest imaginable branding
taylodl 4y ago
Crypto was sold as the hedge against inflation. Well, how did that go? Inflation started creeping up and crypto crashed. That's not the hedge I'm looking for. What problem does Web3 solve? It helps us better manage nonsense. As we face fuel shortages, potential food shortages, a recession and stagflation I wouldn't want to be in the business of solving make-believe problems. If you're not doing work for a business that's providing tangible value to their customers then you're likely to be out of a job soon. All it takes is another rate hike of 25 basis points and we're in a whole new ballgame - and unlike 2008, which was fueled by financial nonsense that had been going on the preceding 10 years, we're going to have bona fide supply shortages to contend with as well.
- 127 4y ago
  Dollar has been going up in value, not down.
  - eftychis 4y ago
    Case in point: https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/TVC-DXY/ https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/TVC-DXY/
jmyeet 4y ago
After failing to solve the financial system with crypto and digital rights with NFTs the desperate search of a solution seeking a problem moves on to Web3. Hint: it's not here either. Take something as simple as identity. In the Web3 world that's basically a wallet. lose your access to an account on a website currently and you can reset it. Lose your Web3 ID key? Well, you need a "smart" contract for recovery. I've seen variations on this such as nominating some other wallets who can give a consensus for what is essentially a takeover to recover your account. These are really just more attack vectors created on the altar of automation and blockchain.
- saurik 4y ago
  Web2 is also stupid as at the end of the day your identity is just whatever some call center rep is willing to believe, and you can be locked out of your account to the point where you can no longer even prove who you are for any reason at any time. This is an alternative, and it comes with different tradeoffs. I see you don't like the tradeoffs, and would rather trust companies like Apple, Facebook, and Google because you apparently don't trust yourself with your own key. I think that is simultaneously sad and naive, but "you do you", I guess? That doesn't mean none of this is useful, because not everyone is in a position to trust random US companies.
- TimJRobinson 4y ago
  Social recovery wallets are a much better solution than some website which may or may not have customer support giving me access to my data again. Look at the amount of threads on HN of people pleading about how google banned them and they can't get through to a human to get their data back. Is that the future you want everywhere? You think having to talk to your parents + friends to recover your data is worse than that?
ftlio 4y ago
Whatever's next is just user-level PKI and DNS. Can I roll a private/public key pair and use it to authenticate everywhere as the user BabyFarkMcgeeZax? Can I authorize Spotify to BabyFarkMcgeeZax/playlist? In theory, I can use an OAuth provider for this kind of stuff, but then who owns what? Why can't I host my own content wherever I want and allow different permissions to it? Why can't I delegate certain things to some provider and revoke it when I want? How does anyone get paid for being such a service provider, especially with the idea that the data is host proof in some cases and thus can't be monetized? Blockchains / tokens are trying to answer this question. Most are data that doesn't fit on a blockchain or are issuing tokens with arbitrary monetary policies and following them up with bad fiscal policy. Thus far most of Web3 just requires some algebra to see a database that doesn't solve these problems.
- miketery 4y ago
  Self sovereign identity is exactly this.
Sebguer 4y ago
A thread earlier this year between Box & Airbnb's CEOs basically highlighted this point: https://twitter.com/bchesky/status/1477808318915612677 https://twitter.com/bchesky/status/1477808318915612677
nathias 4y ago
Most of my problems are being solved by web3. Maybe you have different problems, the kind that facebook can solve.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  Yes, we await the Oatly NFT with bated breath so we can ensure our cup of coffee is provably unique (TM).
- threeseed 4y ago
  I don't use Facebook. But I do use a whole raft of various companies products and services. Almost like the web as it is today is decentralised.
  - nathias 4y ago
    try getting on a Mastercard blacklist and see if you still feel that way
barneygale 4y ago
> Web 2 gave us Wikipedia, Google search, Facebook and more Wikipedia and Google pre-date Web 2.0. Facebook is arguable.
- astrange 4y ago
  Web 2.0 (aka XMLHTTPRequest) started with a pre-Facebook social network called Orkut. It was pretty cool.
  - finfinfin 4y ago
    Web 2.0 is much more about user-generated content than it is about XMLHTTPRequest. So the premise about WikiPedia is largely valid.
JohnHaugeland 4y ago
web2 didn't give us google, facebook, or wikipedia? the internet never made any promises about being an equalizer?
devoutsalsa 4y ago
My favorite use of crypto is having “cash” stored in a wallet that can’t be seized by anyone. Until someone ties me up and starts threatening two start hitting me with a baseball bat.
- rglover 4y ago
  They can do that with actual cash and precious metals, too. And have!
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    It's unwise to have a significant amount of cash or metal on you, partly for exactly this reason.
    - rglover 4y ago
      As it is to have your private keys for your Bitcoin. Just like you can "hide" those things, you can hide your private keys (arguably in more creative ways, too).
- k__ 4y ago
  If they can relate it to you without KYC.
- this_user 4y ago
  Or the community votes to seize your account.
- 5350-uiop-1130 4y ago
  now try withdrawing it to a bank.
  - smcl 4y ago
    or using it to feed yourself, pay your rent, buy clothes ...
labrador 4y ago
I'm ever the optimist so believe the fallout from these blockchain experiments will likely leave at least one useful idea/technology in the ruins for future us to build on
- Geee 4y ago
  Yes, and it's called Bitcoin.
  - labrador 4y ago
    Or perhaps all the experiments lead to the creation of a US digital dollar which can be spent online as anonymously as an ordinary paper dollar. This would have a clear advantage over Bitcoin, plus be backed by the full faith and credit of the United States https://www.brookings.edu/techstream/the-innovators-dilemma-and-u-s-adoption-of-a-digital-dollar/ https://www.brookings.edu/techstream/the-innovators-dilemma-...
    - Geee 4y ago
      What full faith? US dollar is crashing, and there doesn't seem to be a solution in sight.
      - labrador 4y ago
        Historically speaking the current situation is not too far out of normal variation
    - miketery 4y ago
      The US government would never allow such a product. Any digital currency issued by the government will have strict controls.
      - TimJRobinson 4y ago
        DAI is a decentralized US dollar that has existed for over 5 years now. Many people want a government authorized dollar backed by the government and are ok with the controls on it. You're free to choose the digital dollar you want. That's what this is about - freedom of choice in holding and spending your wealth in any currency or form you like.
prmoustache 4y ago
Why do people keep talking about something that doesn't even exist?
- Semiapies 4y ago
  Because some people here look around at the rest of us and think they see easy marks.
whatisweb3 4y ago
The basic premise of web3 is decentralization of value transfer and digital ownership. Examples of value transfer: payments, swapping assets, escrow, auctions, crowdfunds. Examples of digital ownership: limited-edition art ownership, domain names, collectibles, game assets, shares, access tokens, user accounts, private keys, and maybe eventually other assets. Real-world use cases could replace parts of PayPal, Patreon, Bandcamp or Kickstarter with a crypto-native solution to decentralize some parts of payments, user accounts, and ownership. Where is the killer Web3 app? It's only been a ~year or so since Web3 has entered mainstream consciousness, and the few-years-old tech is still far from a usable state. Crypto has a long way yet to go: Proof of Stake, rollups, zk privacy preservation, light clients, and a host of other solutions need to be first solved for it to be widely usable. In the meantime, most current Web3 apps are best to view as high-risk "beta" experiments. > The Web was about making information accessible to all, Web 3 is trying to provide value to a few, where everything is done for the benefit of the few rather than benefit of all. This is a gross misunderstanding of web3. Take a look at NFT art world, almost all the media and information is freely accessible, to the point that it is regularly ridiculed with "Right Click Save" by the out-crowd. This is distinctly different than Patreon and Bandcamp models, where artists might put digital media behind a paywall, making the information only accessible to a limited few. See more here[1] [1] https://mirror.xyz/herndondryhurst.eth/S-W2ZXRbrcy8bVGrKwMXSou63gWir7RJ9xs6wUn_h-0 https://mirror.xyz/herndondryhurst.eth/S-W2ZXRbrcy8bVGrKwMXS...
- swagonomixxx 4y ago
  > This is a gross misunderstanding of web3. Literally everyday there's an article that is posted that completely misunderstands cryptocurrencies and the related ecosystem. The most common critique I see on HN of this is that NFTs are garbage and rug pulls suck. Thats like saying the modern web sucks because a couple of shitty websites are live and you got your CC stolen by phishing e-mails. It just makes no sense as an argument. Crypto has a long, long, very long way to go but if folks truly do not believe that transferring something that we believe to have some value (i.e bitcoin, or USD, or whatever) without the need for a middleman, while also keeping your funds truly safe from external control (i.e banks, governments, and the like) then cryptocurrency is simply not for you, full stop thank you for considering it. In the first world, the full value of such decentralization and trustlessness will never be understood until they get burned like Sri Lanka, Lebanon, Cyprus, and other countries with massive hyperinflation and complete loss of wealth (temporary or not). The daily fluctuations of BTC are literally nothing next to the hyperinflation of the Turkish Lira, the Lebanese pound, the Zimbabwean dollar, and so on. As a side note, its getting kinda tiring to see these boring, lame takes on crypto which seem as half assed as they are uninsightful posted on HN. Lets get some moderation done on this front IMO.
nathias 4y ago
We are in a prison surounded by high walls, wire fences and guard towers occupied by watchful guards. Some of us are digging a ditch so we can all escape this hell, and you're standing at the entrance yelling at us that the ditch doesn't do anything. Why don't you help, or at least shut up?
- mattnewton 4y ago
  To stretch this metaphor even further, I guess some people don’t believe this is a prison and wonder why you are digging up the community park with a bunch of holes that seem dangerous and at the very least tear up the greenery we could have played on.
  - pton_xd 4y ago
    > I guess some people don’t believe this is a prison > tear up the greenery we could have played on Can hardly believe HN is earnestly arguing that walled gardens controlled by Google / Facebook / et al are a preferable future for the internet. There's some serious cognitive dissonance on this site when it comes to blockchain tech.
    - threeseed 4y ago
      a) Web3 doesn't prevent centralisation. Look at NFTs and OpenSea and how it manipulates the output of the blockchain to flag/hide stolen NFTs. b) I don't use Facebook and Google only for search engine. So those aren't walled gardens for many people.
      - pton_xd 4y ago
        > a) Web3 doesn't prevent centralisation. Look at NFTs and OpenSea and how it manipulates the output of the blockchain to flag/hide stolen NFTs. No one, including OP, is arguing that web3/blockchain/whatever is "solved." It's obviously very new tech with tons of flaws. Why can't we have a frank conversation about the flaws and work on solutions? Instead on HN we get brainless vitriol against ANYTHING blockchain related and arguments that decentralization is unnecessary (just use a database, duh! Just trust Google, duh!). The whole thing is frustratingly dishonest. > b) I don't use Facebook and Google only for search engine. So those aren't walled gardens for many people. Facebook, Google, and/or Apple control your life. You can't even operate a phone without one of them.
thx 4y ago
what isn’t “flawed?” in the least it’d be inaccurate to say that web3 has not provided something of a paradigm-shifting mechanism for artists to get paid web3 is also kinda new & if not web3 then what evolve / direction / next level for the www ?
yawnxyz 4y ago
I've been using EVM blockchain as an immutable registry / ledger to record small bits of data linked to IPFS to record events. These are supposed to be immutable by me or anyone else (essentially they act like logs and events). Is there "regular" immutable events database like this that I don't have to host myself, has a super easy-to-use API, and costs less than $5/mo, but keeps my data around after I stop paying for it?
- astrange 4y ago
  GitHub. A Twitter account.
  - TimJRobinson 4y ago
    Both constantly censor and delete data they don't want on their platform.
    - astrange 4y ago
      That’s actually the only reason it’s usable for this. Because you can’t use a public database for anything at all once it’s full of spam and CSAM; not only will it get blocked but nobody will work on maintaining it.
    - yawnxyz 4y ago
      I've thought about using Github and using Github Actions to roll up different people's GH accounts' data into a "central ledger" but yeah, this isn't immutable and Github Actions keeps going down lol. Twitter is a no-go since their API changes fairly frequently and I still feel burned from their API rug pull a decade ago.
- robocat 4y ago
  I have seen Twitter used for publishing small bits of immutable data - not perfect but covers a lot of use cases.
  - finfinfin 4y ago
prohobo 4y ago
Web3 (smart contracts) can (as in right now) reduce the level of trust required to persuade people to use certain services (or at least parts of them). For example: crowdfunding platforms. I can write a smart contract that reasonably and securely associates unique IDs to Ethereum wallets, keeps track of wallets that donate to a specific ID and refunds donators or rewards the wallets associated with the IDs according to explicitly set rules (ie. minimum currency threshold). I can then create a website for it, deploy it as "givemeyourmoney.xyz" and still be considered (and verified) trustworthy and safe just because everyone can read the contract's behavior. Without a smart contract, everyone would understandably think the site is a scam and wouldn't use it - even if it was totally legitimate. That's obviously an extreme example, but that basic attribute has a lot of other implications. The problems with smart contracts begin once you have to codify a rule that isn't so easy to translate into code (ie. it turns out that a crowdfunded project was a scam). Now people are creating DAOs to deal with situations like that, with at best mixed results. But what if you need to verify that a condition has been met that isn't based on the blockchain, like checking if someone actually did deliver the pizza that someone else ordered? Then you're completely screwed. You could say that these problems are eventually solve-able if the right hardware/software infrastructure was created to address them, but if so then it's at least a decade away from being verifiable and therefore useful. Anyways, regardless of what could be possible it looks like web3 people are more interested in scamming each other because non-technical users can't read smart contracts and few people do any proper auditing.
- finfinfin 4y ago
  This is an overly theoretical description of a single potential benefit of web3. How many people—even very technically skilled ones—read smart contracts in their entirety? Launching a crowdfunding platform backed by a smart contract should give it zero credibility by itself. Unfortunately, we popularized the idea that a smart contract equals zero trust equals you can actually trust it. None of which is true. We moved even further away from that with upgradable contracts. Where is zero trust there? Yesterday’s Solend disgrace is a very clear proof of that.
  - TimJRobinson 4y ago
bonestamp2 4y ago
Web3 isn't blockchain. Blockchain just one potential category of technologies or set of implementations. Web 2.0 was not defined by its technologies or implementations, it was defined by its value proposition. So, forget blockchain... at a higher level, Web3 is going to be about ownership. Billions of people gave Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Reddit, etc. value by creating the content that made those products useful. Web3 still has a lot to workout, and as much as blockchain is trying to co-opt web3, it may not be a part of it in the end -- but the people who create the content will get paid this time around. That is what will define Web3.
- astrange 4y ago
  People on Web 2.0 are getting paid more than they deserve already by using these services for free. Most accounts don’t need to make YouTube money as long as the big ones are subsidizing them. A decentralized system where users don’t have to view ads etc. will necessarily be more expensive for everyone - because you have to fund infrastructure, because you have to penalize spammers, and just because if posters are getting paid it has to come from somewhere.
jbaczuk 4y ago
I posted about this on LI recently: "What is the value of cryptocurrency/blockchain/web3? Why should anyone care? Here is my opinion (as a developer who studied and built blockchains): It allows digital information (value) to be open/free (as in not under the control or in the power of another) and virtually permanent. That's basically it. If you want digital money, we already got that (Cash app, Venmo, online/mobile banking, etc.). You want digital collectibles, that's been around forever in games, etc. But I think we all know most people see value purely in the speculation. Be careful not to confuse all the "innovation" and hype as real substance, because most of the time someone is trying to PUMP and DUMP, which can make a lot of money. Just look at any of the thousands of blockchains/coins that are no longer used or traded, but were supposed to change the world."
- miketery 4y ago
  Digital money is not solved. Yes for the average westerner, however many unbanked in the west and globally.
  - jbaczuk 4y ago
    Bitcoin?
- TimJRobinson 4y ago
  And when Venmo bans you for using it in the "wrong country" as has happened to friends of mine? Or when PayPal freezes your account because you're "suspicious"? or Robinhood stops you buying a stock because it's hurting their friends? You may be ok with companies messing with your life because they can, many of us are not. Especially non US citizens where we face a lot more financial discrimination.
  - jbaczuk 4y ago
    Perfect use case for Bitcoin
jchook 4y ago
Cryptocurrency is not money... yet. Money is inherently a liability of the issuer. No one is liable to accept bitcoin (for example) as payment, therefore it is not money. However, if you can build a currency that represents real world assets, liabilities, and/or collateral, then it potentially becomes money, and can solve real problems such as liquidity in markets.
effisfor 4y ago
Some useful rules around Web3: 1. The most beautiful and innovative things being done in the Web3 space are much more beautiful and innovative than anything you will do in your life. 2. The most dastardly things being done in the Web3 space are much more dastardly than anything you will do in your life. Now for the two broad camps of people I see here: a. People who think 2. is not relevant to pursuing 1. b. People who think 2. can never justify pursuing 1. – or even finding out about it. Look at the kids: the day is better spent curious.
- finfinfin 4y ago
  Both 1 and 2 are nonsense. I am very curious about blockchains (Etherium primarily), but so far have not seen any web3 projects that are more “beautiful” than Electric Counterpoint by Reich or more “dastardly” than the holocaust. If you mean that both of these are achievable on an individual level, then I fail to see how coding an idea has any more potential to achieve these extremes than using a paintbrush. Look at the kids: they get far more excited by video games than DeFi.
  - effisfor 4y ago
    You aren't the Third, or the Steve, Reich.

171 points by ravivyas 4y ago

edem 4y ago

TL;DR -> just ignore this post as it has no substance and it has no arguments. It is just a rant about something which is not clear, but not even examples are given to make their point.

johnmarcus 4y ago
What do you mean he didn't give examples? Just throw a dart at any web3 project, and there is your example.
- edem 4y ago
  Please throw that dart and I'll refute whatever you have to say.
- dubswithus 4y ago
  Most HN commenters have zero knowledge of cryptocurrency and they are proud of that fact. That's lazy.
  - rvz 4y ago
    Or even proud of sitting on extremely absolutist statements like 100% of all of it is going to be wiped out, or even the other side suggesting that everything is going to take over the current system. Both outcomes are simply not going to happen and those supporting either of those outcomes will be disappointed. Co-existence with the current system is the most highly likely outcome with some cryptocurrency projects staying around and meme-coins, tokens will disappear even after regulations coming in.

api 4y ago

As with all things crypto, the product is number go up... until it doesn't, and by then the insiders have taken profits. Rinse and repeat.

EGreg 4y ago
Web3 sucks, yes. But that’s because it’s based on blockchain. Web5 won’t be. Not all things crypto are about speculation and number go up. Many projects have added tokens for utility. THOSE projects are eventually going to be far better than their Web2 counterparts. By the people, not just for the people IPFS team released Filecoin to let you store files in more than one “cloud” company like AWS or GCP or Azure. MaidSAFE goes way further. They are building the ultimate in decentralized, uncensorable networks. Jack Dorsey’s Web5 is using really good technologies like Microsoft’s ION (sidetree protovol) for identity, etc. Okay and now for the part that will get me downvotes… I started two companies in 2010 and 2017 respectively, to build open source software and give it away on GitHub. I built them for Web2 ans Web3 to decentralize social networks, payment systems, voting, governance and more. Because communities need to run their own open source software, rather than relying on states and corporations. Otherwise our communications and transactions will be taking place on privately owned and centrally planned platforms. If you want to know the details… click here: https://qbix.com/ecosystem https://qbix.com/ecosystem https://intercoin.org/applications https://intercoin.org/applications PS: before downvoting me, actually look at this. It is not shilling any tokens. It is actually BUILT open source solutions, on github, that you can take and use today. If you don’t like something, at least comment and use your words before downvoting.
- SilverBirch 4y ago
  Just to be clear, how many planets does the InterPlanetary File System operate on?
  - moralestapia 4y ago
    Honestly, IPFS is one of the very few things I would vouch for from that ecosystem.
  - randomhodler84 4y ago
    Soon, from space, which is a good start: https://filecoinfoundation.medium.com/filecoin-foundation-and-lockheed-martin-bring-decentralized-storage-to-space-db9a15e66264 https://filecoinfoundation.medium.com/filecoin-foundation-an...

seibelj 4y ago

My world view, summarized to the simplest term, is “incentives”. You can find places and times where people act altruistically. We all do it regularly. We most reliably act altruistically when it comes to our own families, with our children as the highest recipient of our altruism. When you get beyond the immediate family, relying on altruism as the organizing principle starts to break down. Societies that provide incentives for delivering value to other citizens - going to work, doing a job, becoming wealthy if you drastically improve society - will win long term over those that provide disincentives to hard work and providing value. Web3 and crypto provide artificial scarcity to digital goods. This is an experiment in economics. I believe providing economic incentives, when properly aligned with the tasks desired, can result in a more efficient and successful internet. Relying solely on volunteers in any group has very rarely worked - even the largest non-profits have highly paid directors and legions of paid employees. This is not some revolutionary idea, other than the fact that digital goods can have artificial scarcity.

nh23423fefe 4y ago
But using the word scarcity seems to try and piggyback on what we all know scarce goods are. Goods become scarce because of excess demand or difficulty with production. A real finite thing. what is scarce about tokens? the hash? why are they desired, for speculative investing?
- throw_nbvc1234 4y ago
  "Excess demand" can be a 1st or 2nd order effect. If you artificially limit supply then a consistent amount of demand will suddenly become excessive.
- jsmith45 4y ago
  No, think scarcity in the "artificial scarcity" sense where only 1000 copies of a certain handbag were made so they can market it as "limited edition" and demand a higher price than if they were making as many as they could.
  - 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

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ryandvm 4y ago

Don't encourage them. There is no Web3 and if there ever is, it's not fucking blockchain apps. What these hucksters call Web3 is the digital equivalent of essential oils. Blockchain apps have no real productive use beyond selling them to each other. Calling the whole thing Web3 was a fairly transparent grasp at trying to legitimize the whole charade.

Stevvo 4y ago
Take a look at https://gitcoin.co/ https://gitcoin.co/ and try and tell me that is not a "real productive use".
- malermeister 4y ago
  Looked at it, was a bunch of crypto buzzwords. If there's a productive use, it escapes me.
  - FinalBriefing 4y ago
    lol > Gitcoin grants quadratic funding is not just for funds allocation, it's also a great signaling tool!
  - tauwauwau 4y ago
    From the gitcoin footer: Gitcoin is a platform where you get paid to work on open source software in Python, Rust, Ruby, JavaScript, Solidity, HTML, CSS, Design, and more. I'm assuming that payment is in some crypto token/currency.
    - malermeister 4y ago
      That sentence sounds good! But why was it hidden all the way down in the footer? Why was the rest of the page vacuous marketing copy that made my brain turn off? And why does any of that need cryptocurrency? Grants for open source work have been around before cryptocurrency even existed.

randomhodler84 4y ago

Nah, missing the point. I’ll still stand by some web3 idea like using an NFT as some kind of license to access a service using web3 auth is a true and valid use case. It doesn’t need a monetary-like token but it does need a single record bound to an address stored eternally. Jpeg NFTs are dumb, cos the record is public. But a singular record that can out of band handle authorizations? Neat.

BigBubbleButt 4y ago
> I’ll still stand by some web3 idea like using an NFT as some kind of license to access a service using web3 auth is a true and valid use case. How is this different from setting up a website and requiring a password to access it?
- randomhodler84 4y ago
  The whole not needing an a&a database part? That’s the onchain part. You don’t need to track authz as it’s just real-time lookups on blockchain state. Rather than maintain and protect a local set of usernames and hashes, you let anyone in who can present signature and address. Then server side you check that address has some NFT. Done. No hashes or usernames or anything.
  - smachiz 4y ago
    How is that actually better? Like, what part of that makes it faster/cheaper/better?
    - randomhodler84 4y ago
      Let’s say I’m a saas vendor that has some web product, it doesn’t need user profiles as such, just gated access. Without need to take credit card payments, one can sell a token that provides access, and know that the api to query its status is going to be stable and eternal. It simplifies a particular use case that I think works.

Animats 4y ago

"Web3" isn't even able to solve problems it's supposed to solve. The big pitch was that you could have non-copyable items which you could move between virtual worlds. The Second Life / Open Simulator ecosystem already has that problem. People looked into NFTs as a way to solve it, and concluded it would not help. You can download content and upload it as new content, perhaps with a minor mod, creating a new object. This is called "copybotting" in Second Life and Open Simulator. As with any copyright violation, you can file DMCA takedown requests if you find a copy of your stuff. Would NFTs stop copybotting? No. They just protect the object's ID, not its content. You can still copy the content. If you want to copy a Bored Ape Yacht Club NFT image and make a poster of it, the NFT system does nothing to stop you. It's not even clear that's a copyright violation in the US, since BAYC images are computer-generated. Many NFTs don't even have an on-chain cryptographic hash of the content, only a URL for some server. Nor do most NFTs have their NFT ID watermarked into the actual content. So the NFT doesn't even give you a verifiable proof of ownership independent of the creator's server. There isn't info that would allow a server to tell if a new image upload is a copy of an existing item. An image search might help, but that doesn't need NFTs. Decentraland's solution to this problem is to charge a $500 "curation fee" to get an object onto their platform, which cuts down content to the point that they can check for duplicates. NFTs are thus useless for their claimed purpose.

dvt 4y ago
> They just protect the object's ID, not its content. This is very similar to how DRM works (protects the ID, not the content, hence we need DMCAs if someone tries to illegally stream a movie on YouTube or whatever) and it seems to be doing a pretty good job. In spite of everyone hating it, we have the luxury of Spotify, Netflix, Apple+, etc. because of DRM. NFTs definitely have a use case in gaming and digital collectibles; they also happen to be consumer-friendly (unlike the current status quo of digital collectibles). I wish I could sell my thousands of items in WoW for real money, or my Fornite skins for real money, or my unneeded Magic Arena cards for real money, but I'm locked in their ecosystem. The tokenomnics aspect of Web3 is mainly speculation, which imo also has a use case, but it most likely will be impacted by some much-needed regulation.
- 4y ago

sorry_outta_gas 4y ago

I've played with it a little bit, there are some cool use-cases here and there but the wild speculation and get-rich quick schemes kill it's usefulness IMO It's likely there will be an iteration of protocols and storage mechanisms that will be more useful in the future I also think "Web3" is probably the dumbest imaginable branding

taylodl 4y ago

Crypto was sold as the hedge against inflation. Well, how did that go? Inflation started creeping up and crypto crashed. That's not the hedge I'm looking for. What problem does Web3 solve? It helps us better manage nonsense. As we face fuel shortages, potential food shortages, a recession and stagflation I wouldn't want to be in the business of solving make-believe problems. If you're not doing work for a business that's providing tangible value to their customers then you're likely to be out of a job soon. All it takes is another rate hike of 25 basis points and we're in a whole new ballgame - and unlike 2008, which was fueled by financial nonsense that had been going on the preceding 10 years, we're going to have bona fide supply shortages to contend with as well.

127 4y ago
Dollar has been going up in value, not down.
- eftychis 4y ago
  Case in point: https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/TVC-DXY/ https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/TVC-DXY/

jmyeet 4y ago

After failing to solve the financial system with crypto and digital rights with NFTs the desperate search of a solution seeking a problem moves on to Web3. Hint: it's not here either. Take something as simple as identity. In the Web3 world that's basically a wallet. lose your access to an account on a website currently and you can reset it. Lose your Web3 ID key? Well, you need a "smart" contract for recovery. I've seen variations on this such as nominating some other wallets who can give a consensus for what is essentially a takeover to recover your account. These are really just more attack vectors created on the altar of automation and blockchain.

saurik 4y ago
Web2 is also stupid as at the end of the day your identity is just whatever some call center rep is willing to believe, and you can be locked out of your account to the point where you can no longer even prove who you are for any reason at any time. This is an alternative, and it comes with different tradeoffs. I see you don't like the tradeoffs, and would rather trust companies like Apple, Facebook, and Google because you apparently don't trust yourself with your own key. I think that is simultaneously sad and naive, but "you do you", I guess? That doesn't mean none of this is useful, because not everyone is in a position to trust random US companies.
TimJRobinson 4y ago
Social recovery wallets are a much better solution than some website which may or may not have customer support giving me access to my data again. Look at the amount of threads on HN of people pleading about how google banned them and they can't get through to a human to get their data back. Is that the future you want everywhere? You think having to talk to your parents + friends to recover your data is worse than that?

ftlio 4y ago

Whatever's next is just user-level PKI and DNS. Can I roll a private/public key pair and use it to authenticate everywhere as the user BabyFarkMcgeeZax? Can I authorize Spotify to BabyFarkMcgeeZax/playlist? In theory, I can use an OAuth provider for this kind of stuff, but then who owns what? Why can't I host my own content wherever I want and allow different permissions to it? Why can't I delegate certain things to some provider and revoke it when I want? How does anyone get paid for being such a service provider, especially with the idea that the data is host proof in some cases and thus can't be monetized? Blockchains / tokens are trying to answer this question. Most are data that doesn't fit on a blockchain or are issuing tokens with arbitrary monetary policies and following them up with bad fiscal policy. Thus far most of Web3 just requires some algebra to see a database that doesn't solve these problems.

miketery 4y ago
Self sovereign identity is exactly this.

Sebguer 4y ago

A thread earlier this year between Box & Airbnb's CEOs basically highlighted this point: https://twitter.com/bchesky/status/1477808318915612677 https://twitter.com/bchesky/status/1477808318915612677

nathias 4y ago

Most of my problems are being solved by web3. Maybe you have different problems, the kind that facebook can solve.

selimthegrim 4y ago
Yes, we await the Oatly NFT with bated breath so we can ensure our cup of coffee is provably unique (TM).
threeseed 4y ago
I don't use Facebook. But I do use a whole raft of various companies products and services. Almost like the web as it is today is decentralised.
- nathias 4y ago
  try getting on a Mastercard blacklist and see if you still feel that way

barneygale 4y ago

> Web 2 gave us Wikipedia, Google search, Facebook and more Wikipedia and Google pre-date Web 2.0. Facebook is arguable.

astrange 4y ago
Web 2.0 (aka XMLHTTPRequest) started with a pre-Facebook social network called Orkut. It was pretty cool.
- finfinfin 4y ago
  Web 2.0 is much more about user-generated content than it is about XMLHTTPRequest. So the premise about WikiPedia is largely valid.

JohnHaugeland 4y ago

web2 didn't give us google, facebook, or wikipedia? the internet never made any promises about being an equalizer?

devoutsalsa 4y ago

My favorite use of crypto is having “cash” stored in a wallet that can’t be seized by anyone. Until someone ties me up and starts threatening two start hitting me with a baseball bat.

rglover 4y ago
They can do that with actual cash and precious metals, too. And have!
- ALittleLight 4y ago
  It's unwise to have a significant amount of cash or metal on you, partly for exactly this reason.
  - rglover 4y ago
    As it is to have your private keys for your Bitcoin. Just like you can "hide" those things, you can hide your private keys (arguably in more creative ways, too).
k__ 4y ago
If they can relate it to you without KYC.
this_user 4y ago
Or the community votes to seize your account.
5350-uiop-1130 4y ago
now try withdrawing it to a bank.
- smcl 4y ago
  or using it to feed yourself, pay your rent, buy clothes ...

labrador 4y ago

I'm ever the optimist so believe the fallout from these blockchain experiments will likely leave at least one useful idea/technology in the ruins for future us to build on

Geee 4y ago
Yes, and it's called Bitcoin.
- labrador 4y ago
  Or perhaps all the experiments lead to the creation of a US digital dollar which can be spent online as anonymously as an ordinary paper dollar. This would have a clear advantage over Bitcoin, plus be backed by the full faith and credit of the United States https://www.brookings.edu/techstream/the-innovators-dilemma-and-u-s-adoption-of-a-digital-dollar/ https://www.brookings.edu/techstream/the-innovators-dilemma-...
  - Geee 4y ago
    What full faith? US dollar is crashing, and there doesn't seem to be a solution in sight.
    - labrador 4y ago
      Historically speaking the current situation is not too far out of normal variation
  - miketery 4y ago
    The US government would never allow such a product. Any digital currency issued by the government will have strict controls.
    - TimJRobinson 4y ago
      DAI is a decentralized US dollar that has existed for over 5 years now. Many people want a government authorized dollar backed by the government and are ok with the controls on it. You're free to choose the digital dollar you want. That's what this is about - freedom of choice in holding and spending your wealth in any currency or form you like.

prmoustache 4y ago

Why do people keep talking about something that doesn't even exist?

Semiapies 4y ago
Because some people here look around at the rest of us and think they see easy marks.

whatisweb3 4y ago

The basic premise of web3 is decentralization of value transfer and digital ownership. Examples of value transfer: payments, swapping assets, escrow, auctions, crowdfunds. Examples of digital ownership: limited-edition art ownership, domain names, collectibles, game assets, shares, access tokens, user accounts, private keys, and maybe eventually other assets. Real-world use cases could replace parts of PayPal, Patreon, Bandcamp or Kickstarter with a crypto-native solution to decentralize some parts of payments, user accounts, and ownership. Where is the killer Web3 app? It's only been a ~year or so since Web3 has entered mainstream consciousness, and the few-years-old tech is still far from a usable state. Crypto has a long way yet to go: Proof of Stake, rollups, zk privacy preservation, light clients, and a host of other solutions need to be first solved for it to be widely usable. In the meantime, most current Web3 apps are best to view as high-risk "beta" experiments. > The Web was about making information accessible to all, Web 3 is trying to provide value to a few, where everything is done for the benefit of the few rather than benefit of all. This is a gross misunderstanding of web3. Take a look at NFT art world, almost all the media and information is freely accessible, to the point that it is regularly ridiculed with "Right Click Save" by the out-crowd. This is distinctly different than Patreon and Bandcamp models, where artists might put digital media behind a paywall, making the information only accessible to a limited few. See more here[1] [1] https://mirror.xyz/herndondryhurst.eth/S-W2ZXRbrcy8bVGrKwMXSou63gWir7RJ9xs6wUn_h-0 https://mirror.xyz/herndondryhurst.eth/S-W2ZXRbrcy8bVGrKwMXS...

swagonomixxx 4y ago
> This is a gross misunderstanding of web3. Literally everyday there's an article that is posted that completely misunderstands cryptocurrencies and the related ecosystem. The most common critique I see on HN of this is that NFTs are garbage and rug pulls suck. Thats like saying the modern web sucks because a couple of shitty websites are live and you got your CC stolen by phishing e-mails. It just makes no sense as an argument. Crypto has a long, long, very long way to go but if folks truly do not believe that transferring something that we believe to have some value (i.e bitcoin, or USD, or whatever) without the need for a middleman, while also keeping your funds truly safe from external control (i.e banks, governments, and the like) then cryptocurrency is simply not for you, full stop thank you for considering it. In the first world, the full value of such decentralization and trustlessness will never be understood until they get burned like Sri Lanka, Lebanon, Cyprus, and other countries with massive hyperinflation and complete loss of wealth (temporary or not). The daily fluctuations of BTC are literally nothing next to the hyperinflation of the Turkish Lira, the Lebanese pound, the Zimbabwean dollar, and so on. As a side note, its getting kinda tiring to see these boring, lame takes on crypto which seem as half assed as they are uninsightful posted on HN. Lets get some moderation done on this front IMO.

nathias 4y ago

We are in a prison surounded by high walls, wire fences and guard towers occupied by watchful guards. Some of us are digging a ditch so we can all escape this hell, and you're standing at the entrance yelling at us that the ditch doesn't do anything. Why don't you help, or at least shut up?

mattnewton 4y ago
To stretch this metaphor even further, I guess some people don’t believe this is a prison and wonder why you are digging up the community park with a bunch of holes that seem dangerous and at the very least tear up the greenery we could have played on.
- pton_xd 4y ago
  > I guess some people don’t believe this is a prison > tear up the greenery we could have played on Can hardly believe HN is earnestly arguing that walled gardens controlled by Google / Facebook / et al are a preferable future for the internet. There's some serious cognitive dissonance on this site when it comes to blockchain tech.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    a) Web3 doesn't prevent centralisation. Look at NFTs and OpenSea and how it manipulates the output of the blockchain to flag/hide stolen NFTs. b) I don't use Facebook and Google only for search engine. So those aren't walled gardens for many people.
    - pton_xd 4y ago
      > a) Web3 doesn't prevent centralisation. Look at NFTs and OpenSea and how it manipulates the output of the blockchain to flag/hide stolen NFTs. No one, including OP, is arguing that web3/blockchain/whatever is "solved." It's obviously very new tech with tons of flaws. Why can't we have a frank conversation about the flaws and work on solutions? Instead on HN we get brainless vitriol against ANYTHING blockchain related and arguments that decentralization is unnecessary (just use a database, duh! Just trust Google, duh!). The whole thing is frustratingly dishonest. > b) I don't use Facebook and Google only for search engine. So those aren't walled gardens for many people. Facebook, Google, and/or Apple control your life. You can't even operate a phone without one of them.

thx 4y ago

what isn’t “flawed?” in the least it’d be inaccurate to say that web3 has not provided something of a paradigm-shifting mechanism for artists to get paid web3 is also kinda new & if not web3 then what evolve / direction / next level for the www ?

yawnxyz 4y ago

I've been using EVM blockchain as an immutable registry / ledger to record small bits of data linked to IPFS to record events. These are supposed to be immutable by me or anyone else (essentially they act like logs and events). Is there "regular" immutable events database like this that I don't have to host myself, has a super easy-to-use API, and costs less than $5/mo, but keeps my data around after I stop paying for it?

astrange 4y ago
GitHub. A Twitter account.
- TimJRobinson 4y ago
  Both constantly censor and delete data they don't want on their platform.
  - astrange 4y ago
    That’s actually the only reason it’s usable for this. Because you can’t use a public database for anything at all once it’s full of spam and CSAM; not only will it get blocked but nobody will work on maintaining it.
  - yawnxyz 4y ago
    I've thought about using Github and using Github Actions to roll up different people's GH accounts' data into a "central ledger" but yeah, this isn't immutable and Github Actions keeps going down lol. Twitter is a no-go since their API changes fairly frequently and I still feel burned from their API rug pull a decade ago.
robocat 4y ago
I have seen Twitter used for publishing small bits of immutable data - not perfect but covers a lot of use cases.
- finfinfin 4y ago

prohobo 4y ago

Web3 (smart contracts) can (as in right now) reduce the level of trust required to persuade people to use certain services (or at least parts of them). For example: crowdfunding platforms. I can write a smart contract that reasonably and securely associates unique IDs to Ethereum wallets, keeps track of wallets that donate to a specific ID and refunds donators or rewards the wallets associated with the IDs according to explicitly set rules (ie. minimum currency threshold). I can then create a website for it, deploy it as "givemeyourmoney.xyz" and still be considered (and verified) trustworthy and safe just because everyone can read the contract's behavior. Without a smart contract, everyone would understandably think the site is a scam and wouldn't use it - even if it was totally legitimate. That's obviously an extreme example, but that basic attribute has a lot of other implications. The problems with smart contracts begin once you have to codify a rule that isn't so easy to translate into code (ie. it turns out that a crowdfunded project was a scam). Now people are creating DAOs to deal with situations like that, with at best mixed results. But what if you need to verify that a condition has been met that isn't based on the blockchain, like checking if someone actually did deliver the pizza that someone else ordered? Then you're completely screwed. You could say that these problems are eventually solve-able if the right hardware/software infrastructure was created to address them, but if so then it's at least a decade away from being verifiable and therefore useful. Anyways, regardless of what could be possible it looks like web3 people are more interested in scamming each other because non-technical users can't read smart contracts and few people do any proper auditing.

finfinfin 4y ago
This is an overly theoretical description of a single potential benefit of web3. How many people—even very technically skilled ones—read smart contracts in their entirety? Launching a crowdfunding platform backed by a smart contract should give it zero credibility by itself. Unfortunately, we popularized the idea that a smart contract equals zero trust equals you can actually trust it. None of which is true. We moved even further away from that with upgradable contracts. Where is zero trust there? Yesterday’s Solend disgrace is a very clear proof of that.
- TimJRobinson 4y ago

bonestamp2 4y ago

Web3 isn't blockchain. Blockchain just one potential category of technologies or set of implementations. Web 2.0 was not defined by its technologies or implementations, it was defined by its value proposition. So, forget blockchain... at a higher level, Web3 is going to be about ownership. Billions of people gave Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Reddit, etc. value by creating the content that made those products useful. Web3 still has a lot to workout, and as much as blockchain is trying to co-opt web3, it may not be a part of it in the end -- but the people who create the content will get paid this time around. That is what will define Web3.

astrange 4y ago
People on Web 2.0 are getting paid more than they deserve already by using these services for free. Most accounts don’t need to make YouTube money as long as the big ones are subsidizing them. A decentralized system where users don’t have to view ads etc. will necessarily be more expensive for everyone - because you have to fund infrastructure, because you have to penalize spammers, and just because if posters are getting paid it has to come from somewhere.

jbaczuk 4y ago

I posted about this on LI recently: "What is the value of cryptocurrency/blockchain/web3? Why should anyone care? Here is my opinion (as a developer who studied and built blockchains): It allows digital information (value) to be open/free (as in not under the control or in the power of another) and virtually permanent. That's basically it. If you want digital money, we already got that (Cash app, Venmo, online/mobile banking, etc.). You want digital collectibles, that's been around forever in games, etc. But I think we all know most people see value purely in the speculation. Be careful not to confuse all the "innovation" and hype as real substance, because most of the time someone is trying to PUMP and DUMP, which can make a lot of money. Just look at any of the thousands of blockchains/coins that are no longer used or traded, but were supposed to change the world."

miketery 4y ago
Digital money is not solved. Yes for the average westerner, however many unbanked in the west and globally.
- jbaczuk 4y ago
  Bitcoin?
TimJRobinson 4y ago
And when Venmo bans you for using it in the "wrong country" as has happened to friends of mine? Or when PayPal freezes your account because you're "suspicious"? or Robinhood stops you buying a stock because it's hurting their friends? You may be ok with companies messing with your life because they can, many of us are not. Especially non US citizens where we face a lot more financial discrimination.
- jbaczuk 4y ago
  Perfect use case for Bitcoin

jchook 4y ago

Cryptocurrency is not money... yet. Money is inherently a liability of the issuer. No one is liable to accept bitcoin (for example) as payment, therefore it is not money. However, if you can build a currency that represents real world assets, liabilities, and/or collateral, then it potentially becomes money, and can solve real problems such as liquidity in markets.

effisfor 4y ago

Some useful rules around Web3: 1. The most beautiful and innovative things being done in the Web3 space are much more beautiful and innovative than anything you will do in your life. 2. The most dastardly things being done in the Web3 space are much more dastardly than anything you will do in your life. Now for the two broad camps of people I see here: a. People who think 2. is not relevant to pursuing 1. b. People who think 2. can never justify pursuing 1. – or even finding out about it. Look at the kids: the day is better spent curious.

finfinfin 4y ago
Both 1 and 2 are nonsense. I am very curious about blockchains (Etherium primarily), but so far have not seen any web3 projects that are more “beautiful” than Electric Counterpoint by Reich or more “dastardly” than the holocaust. If you mean that both of these are achievable on an individual level, then I fail to see how coding an idea has any more potential to achieve these extremes than using a paintbrush. Look at the kids: they get far more excited by video games than DeFi.
- effisfor 4y ago
  You aren't the Third, or the Steve, Reich.