6 ms·

What is "Long COVID" and how was it proved that all participants in the study "have" it?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dominotw 4y ago
Not sure why this is downvoted. I am not qualified to read the paper but I have the same question. My impression was that "long covid" was self reported and there is no way to medically confirm if someone is actually has "long covid"
- amelius 4y ago
  My guess is they corrected for the # of people reporting these symptoms before covid happened. But I didn't read the article.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  That’s like saying there’s no way to medically confirm that someone has a sore throat. Of course we may wish to determine the underlying cause of the sore throat, but even if we can’t that doesn’t mean that someone doesn’t have a sore throat. We don’t yet know the underlying cause of long covid symptoms, which is what research like this is trying to uncover.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    You can say that one has sore throat, or fever, or fatigue, or headache. But if you say one has long COVID, you are describing a condition (possibly a new illness, but not yet?) with a wide range of symptoms that occur in different combinations in different people, it seems fine to ask for clarification about what sets it apart other than having gone through acute COVID (natural question, as a person who has gone through acute COVID can still subsequently fall ill with an illness unrelated to COVID). It is sufficiently vague that I have the same question each time I see the term. Maybe this subthread-starter was sincere?
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      > reported by people who have had acute COVID. Plenty of cases of long covid are linked to not-particularly-severe covid cases.
      - throwaway290 4y ago
        Acute doesn't mean severe, it means short. I used it to distinguish from long/chronic.
        kennywinker 4y ago
        Oh, interesting. I hadn't actually encountered that definition of acute. Looked it up. Seems like medical dictionaries lean towards defining acute as an opposite to chronic, while non-medical dictionaries include that and other definitions like "extremely sharp or severe; intense" - which is how I took it. Good to know, for talking to doctors.
      - AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
        What is long covid, then?
  - AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
- KevinGlass 4y ago
  How can you medically confirm someone has depression, chronic pain, or anxiety? You can't with diagnostic tests but you can observe their behavior and ask them. "Long Covid" is extremely similar to other post viral illnesses that have been observed for decades, just getting more attention now.
  - dominotw 4y ago
    I can say my left toe is hurting from long covid and no one can deny that. But if you say my left toe is hurting from depression that won't be taken seriously.
nicoburns 4y ago
Long covid is ongoing chronic illness symptoms following a covid infection, including but not limited to fatigue, heart problem, lung problems, brain fog, and auto-immune problems.
- robhunter 4y ago
  By that definition, anyone experiencing chronic illness symptoms "following" (said another way, "after") a Covid infection has "Long Covid" - even if Covid had nothing to do with those chronic illness symptoms developing or continuing. I think we need a better definition.
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    I think at this point diagnosing long covid necessarily involves trusting patients. If you had no chronic illness symptoms you were aware of, and then get covid, and then have chronic illness symptoms - that's long covid. Until we understand what it is better, there's not going to be any way to objectively test for it, or define it more clearly.
    - robonerd 4y ago
      > If you had no chronic illness symptoms you were aware of, and then get covid, and then have chronic illness symptoms - that's long covid. Or a coincidence.. Not an unlikely one either, given the broad and vague set of symptoms.
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        Sure, but until we know what it is and how to measure if you have it - there is no difference between a coincidence and it. Would you rather we tell everybody who says they have it they don't, or accept everybody's self-assessment? Because until we have a way to diagnose it using an objective measure, those are the options.
    - IMTDb 4y ago
      After two years of confinement I have exhibited several of the symptoms associated with long covid. I have done an asymptomatic COVID, so by all definition, I do suffer of long COVID. Of course it could also be due to the fact that I am just generally getting older, being more tired and having a bit more headaches. Also, like many people I am doing a bit less sports than I used to, and my alcohol consumption has increased. The economy has gone to shit and my stress level have increased. It's probably unrelated tho and I will assume that the cause of my aliments is COVID. "Long COVID" was used to describe the leftover symptoms of people suffering from a very hard COVID infection, leaving their lung half destroyed. Even tho they left the ICU, they still weren't back to 100%, and that's perfectly understandable. It could easily be identified by looking at a scan of a patient lungs. It's now used as a catch-all name for purely subjective and self reported symptoms, which are also caused by bad diet, lack of exercise, excessive stress levels. No amount of scan/x-ray/... can be used to diagnose it, which is extremely convenient. I do believe that "long COVID" is real. I just don't believe that self-diagnosis is the right way to measure it.
bluehorseray 4y ago
Well for a study trying to find biological markers of a condition, I imagine the only way to source people is by self reporting. Because they haven’t found the markers yet…

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Not sure why this is downvoted. I am not qualified to read the paper but I have the same question. My impression was that "long covid" was self reported and there is no way to medically confirm if someone is actually has "long covid"

amelius 4y ago
My guess is they corrected for the # of people reporting these symptoms before covid happened. But I didn't read the article.
nicoburns 4y ago
That’s like saying there’s no way to medically confirm that someone has a sore throat. Of course we may wish to determine the underlying cause of the sore throat, but even if we can’t that doesn’t mean that someone doesn’t have a sore throat. We don’t yet know the underlying cause of long covid symptoms, which is what research like this is trying to uncover.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  You can say that one has sore throat, or fever, or fatigue, or headache. But if you say one has long COVID, you are describing a condition (possibly a new illness, but not yet?) with a wide range of symptoms that occur in different combinations in different people, it seems fine to ask for clarification about what sets it apart other than having gone through acute COVID (natural question, as a person who has gone through acute COVID can still subsequently fall ill with an illness unrelated to COVID). It is sufficiently vague that I have the same question each time I see the term. Maybe this subthread-starter was sincere?
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    > reported by people who have had acute COVID. Plenty of cases of long covid are linked to not-particularly-severe covid cases.
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      Acute doesn't mean severe, it means short. I used it to distinguish from long/chronic.
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        Oh, interesting. I hadn't actually encountered that definition of acute. Looked it up. Seems like medical dictionaries lean towards defining acute as an opposite to chronic, while non-medical dictionaries include that and other definitions like "extremely sharp or severe; intense" - which is how I took it. Good to know, for talking to doctors.
    - AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
      What is long covid, then?
- AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
KevinGlass 4y ago
How can you medically confirm someone has depression, chronic pain, or anxiety? You can't with diagnostic tests but you can observe their behavior and ask them. "Long Covid" is extremely similar to other post viral illnesses that have been observed for decades, just getting more attention now.
- dominotw 4y ago
  I can say my left toe is hurting from long covid and no one can deny that. But if you say my left toe is hurting from depression that won't be taken seriously.

nicoburns 4y ago

Long covid is ongoing chronic illness symptoms following a covid infection, including but not limited to fatigue, heart problem, lung problems, brain fog, and auto-immune problems.

robhunter 4y ago
By that definition, anyone experiencing chronic illness symptoms "following" (said another way, "after") a Covid infection has "Long Covid" - even if Covid had nothing to do with those chronic illness symptoms developing or continuing. I think we need a better definition.
- kennywinker 4y ago
  I think at this point diagnosing long covid necessarily involves trusting patients. If you had no chronic illness symptoms you were aware of, and then get covid, and then have chronic illness symptoms - that's long covid. Until we understand what it is better, there's not going to be any way to objectively test for it, or define it more clearly.
  - robonerd 4y ago
    > If you had no chronic illness symptoms you were aware of, and then get covid, and then have chronic illness symptoms - that's long covid. Or a coincidence.. Not an unlikely one either, given the broad and vague set of symptoms.
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      Sure, but until we know what it is and how to measure if you have it - there is no difference between a coincidence and it. Would you rather we tell everybody who says they have it they don't, or accept everybody's self-assessment? Because until we have a way to diagnose it using an objective measure, those are the options.
  - IMTDb 4y ago
    After two years of confinement I have exhibited several of the symptoms associated with long covid. I have done an asymptomatic COVID, so by all definition, I do suffer of long COVID. Of course it could also be due to the fact that I am just generally getting older, being more tired and having a bit more headaches. Also, like many people I am doing a bit less sports than I used to, and my alcohol consumption has increased. The economy has gone to shit and my stress level have increased. It's probably unrelated tho and I will assume that the cause of my aliments is COVID. "Long COVID" was used to describe the leftover symptoms of people suffering from a very hard COVID infection, leaving their lung half destroyed. Even tho they left the ICU, they still weren't back to 100%, and that's perfectly understandable. It could easily be identified by looking at a scan of a patient lungs. It's now used as a catch-all name for purely subjective and self reported symptoms, which are also caused by bad diet, lack of exercise, excessive stress levels. No amount of scan/x-ray/... can be used to diagnose it, which is extremely convenient. I do believe that "long COVID" is real. I just don't believe that self-diagnosis is the right way to measure it.

bluehorseray 4y ago

Well for a study trying to find biological markers of a condition, I imagine the only way to source people is by self reporting. Because they haven’t found the markers yet…