11 ms·

What it means? It means people realized there is no inherent value in a tech the tries to solve already solved problems in am extremely inefficient way.

api 4y ago
... and isn't what it says it is. It's not decentralized. It's not free or self-sovereign. It's not honest money. It's not a store of value or an inflation hedge. It's also not free of nation state influence. Any nation state that wanted to invest the money could 51% attack or more likely sabotage these systems in a more covert way. Nasty dictatorships like North Korea or Putinistan constantly scam and hack the cryptocurrency ecosystem to siphon off money to fund their regimes. Any state could place regulations in the way of the actual use of cryptocurrency and kill it even if the tech worked fine. It might have been some of those things when it was small. Since then scaling problems inherent in this first generation of the tech led to all forms of hidden centralization, industrial economies of scale led to mining cartels, and perverse economic incentives (some built into the crypto system) led to it being dominated by scams, gambling, and pyramid schemes. Its goals were not necessarily bad. It just failed to achieve them. Edit: social media also failed to achieve many of its goals, becoming instead a cesspool of bullshit and a dragnet for surveillance. I think there's a lesson in here about how totally unique unknown unknown problems tend to manifest in interactive information systems at enormous scale. Systems behave very differently when you scale them out to millions, hundreds of millions, or billions of participants or nodes than they do at toy or early adopter scale. It's not just decentralized systems that are bitten by this. Centralized media are bitten too, just in different ways by different sorts of problems.
- cplusplusfellow 4y ago
  > Nasty dictatorships like North Korea or Putinistan constantly scam and hack the cryptocurrency ecosystem to siphon off money to fund their regimes. Do you have any evidence of which chains this happened to?
  - fsiefken 4y ago
    i think api might refer to news like: * North Korea: Missile programme funded through stolen crypto, UN report says https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-60281129 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-60281129 * North Korea’s Crypto Operations Are Supporting Its Nuclear Program https://thediplomat.com/2022/04/north-koreas-crypto-operations-are-supporting-its-nuclear-program/ https://thediplomat.com/2022/04/north-koreas-crypto-operatio... * Could Putin be exploring cryptocurrencies to bypass western sanctions? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/01/could-putin-be-exploring-cryptocurrencies-to-bypass-western-sanctions-russia-ukraine-invasion https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/01/could-putin...
krzyk 4y ago
It means that it behaves like stock market, nothing more, nothing less.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  The Stock Market, S&P 500, is down 20% year-to-date (6-months). BTC is down 33% *in a month*. Its not even remotely comparable. YTD, its below 60%. -------- I got some buddies in Celsius right now. Has there ever been a circumstance in "the stock market" where you've been unable to access your funds for a week, with _NO_ contact from the CEO or an explanation of what the hell is going on? EDIT: Whatever happened to "inflation hedge" and "store of value" promises from the community by the way? No one in the stock market promised those things. But as inflation ticked up to 9%, BTC completely collapsed.
  - evv555 4y ago
    >The Stock Market, S&P 500, is down 20% year-to-date (6-months). A more apples to apples comparison would be comparing crypto market to tech stocks. In which case yes there are valid comparisons.
    - dragontamer 4y ago
      Its not very surprising that Cryptocoins would be correlated to GBTC (literally a pile of bitcoin trading as a stock), Coinbase (literally the exchange that does better when more volume happens), and TSLA (who bought a pile of BTC sometime last year). Tech companies were playing with blockchain this past year, and are now getting burned. You've got cause-and-effect backwards here.
      - evv555 4y ago
        People were making equivalent accusations of vaporware when the dot com bubble burst but 20 years later and many winners have emerged from that era in addition to new ones.
olalonde 4y ago
What already offers an efficient solution to a decentralized currency that no one controls?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ewindal 4y ago
  That’s not a problem, that’s a solution to a proposed problem that might not even be a problem.
  - gunapologist99 4y ago
    Obviously a sufficiently large number of people do view currencies that are controlled by a single centralized entity as a problem; whether current cryptocurrencies are a solution to that problem is a different debate.
    - unsupp0rted 4y ago
      > Obviously a sufficiently large number of people do view currencies that are controlled by a single centralized entity as a problem Do they? If there were no magic 10x, 100x, and 1000x returns in crypto and it only solved the centralization problem, would even 1 out of 100 current crypto proponents still care about it?
      - Kinrany 4y ago
        1 out of 100 is a lot of people.
        sumeno 4y ago
        And likely way more than would be involved in cryptocurrency if it wasn't a speculative asset
      - LanternLight83 4y ago
leet_thow 4y ago
Could mean people need to sell their shitcoins in exchange for 'real' money in order to afford rent, food, gas and student loan payments while they still can.
mercenario 4y ago
Please tell me which currency does not suffer from inflation and lost most of its purchasing power over the last decades.

api 4y ago

... and isn't what it says it is. It's not decentralized. It's not free or self-sovereign. It's not honest money. It's not a store of value or an inflation hedge. It's also not free of nation state influence. Any nation state that wanted to invest the money could 51% attack or more likely sabotage these systems in a more covert way. Nasty dictatorships like North Korea or Putinistan constantly scam and hack the cryptocurrency ecosystem to siphon off money to fund their regimes. Any state could place regulations in the way of the actual use of cryptocurrency and kill it even if the tech worked fine. It might have been some of those things when it was small. Since then scaling problems inherent in this first generation of the tech led to all forms of hidden centralization, industrial economies of scale led to mining cartels, and perverse economic incentives (some built into the crypto system) led to it being dominated by scams, gambling, and pyramid schemes. Its goals were not necessarily bad. It just failed to achieve them. Edit: social media also failed to achieve many of its goals, becoming instead a cesspool of bullshit and a dragnet for surveillance. I think there's a lesson in here about how totally unique unknown unknown problems tend to manifest in interactive information systems at enormous scale. Systems behave very differently when you scale them out to millions, hundreds of millions, or billions of participants or nodes than they do at toy or early adopter scale. It's not just decentralized systems that are bitten by this. Centralized media are bitten too, just in different ways by different sorts of problems.

cplusplusfellow 4y ago
> Nasty dictatorships like North Korea or Putinistan constantly scam and hack the cryptocurrency ecosystem to siphon off money to fund their regimes. Do you have any evidence of which chains this happened to?
- fsiefken 4y ago
  i think api might refer to news like: * North Korea: Missile programme funded through stolen crypto, UN report says https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-60281129 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-60281129 * North Korea’s Crypto Operations Are Supporting Its Nuclear Program https://thediplomat.com/2022/04/north-koreas-crypto-operations-are-supporting-its-nuclear-program/ https://thediplomat.com/2022/04/north-koreas-crypto-operatio... * Could Putin be exploring cryptocurrencies to bypass western sanctions? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/01/could-putin-be-exploring-cryptocurrencies-to-bypass-western-sanctions-russia-ukraine-invasion https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/01/could-putin...

krzyk 4y ago

It means that it behaves like stock market, nothing more, nothing less.

dragontamer 4y ago
The Stock Market, S&P 500, is down 20% year-to-date (6-months). BTC is down 33% *in a month*. Its not even remotely comparable. YTD, its below 60%. -------- I got some buddies in Celsius right now. Has there ever been a circumstance in "the stock market" where you've been unable to access your funds for a week, with _NO_ contact from the CEO or an explanation of what the hell is going on? EDIT: Whatever happened to "inflation hedge" and "store of value" promises from the community by the way? No one in the stock market promised those things. But as inflation ticked up to 9%, BTC completely collapsed.
- evv555 4y ago
  >The Stock Market, S&P 500, is down 20% year-to-date (6-months). A more apples to apples comparison would be comparing crypto market to tech stocks. In which case yes there are valid comparisons.
  - dragontamer 4y ago
    Its not very surprising that Cryptocoins would be correlated to GBTC (literally a pile of bitcoin trading as a stock), Coinbase (literally the exchange that does better when more volume happens), and TSLA (who bought a pile of BTC sometime last year). Tech companies were playing with blockchain this past year, and are now getting burned. You've got cause-and-effect backwards here.
    - evv555 4y ago
      People were making equivalent accusations of vaporware when the dot com bubble burst but 20 years later and many winners have emerged from that era in addition to new ones.

olalonde 4y ago

What already offers an efficient solution to a decentralized currency that no one controls?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ewindal 4y ago
That’s not a problem, that’s a solution to a proposed problem that might not even be a problem.
- gunapologist99 4y ago
  Obviously a sufficiently large number of people do view currencies that are controlled by a single centralized entity as a problem; whether current cryptocurrencies are a solution to that problem is a different debate.
  - unsupp0rted 4y ago
    > Obviously a sufficiently large number of people do view currencies that are controlled by a single centralized entity as a problem Do they? If there were no magic 10x, 100x, and 1000x returns in crypto and it only solved the centralization problem, would even 1 out of 100 current crypto proponents still care about it?
    - Kinrany 4y ago
      1 out of 100 is a lot of people.
      - sumeno 4y ago
        And likely way more than would be involved in cryptocurrency if it wasn't a speculative asset
    - LanternLight83 4y ago

leet_thow 4y ago

Could mean people need to sell their shitcoins in exchange for 'real' money in order to afford rent, food, gas and student loan payments while they still can.

mercenario 4y ago

Please tell me which currency does not suffer from inflation and lost most of its purchasing power over the last decades.