8 ms·
Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a c
by SaintGhurka 4y ago
Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out.
Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics.
My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that.
But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really cleared up. I had red, flaky skin on my face for 20 years and suddenly it's gone within 48 hours of starting probiotics.
Yeah... post hoc ergo propter hoc, but it's a cheap and harmless shot in the dark.
Worst case scenario, it doesn't work and you're out $10.
Edited to say "low risk" instead of "risk free".
- giancarlostoro 4y ago> But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable What are you even buying if you don't mind me asking? I don't get acid reflux often, but I definitely want to prevent it happening so often, because it continues for days when I do get it. There's all sorts of things that say they have / are probiotics, including a few different sodas out there.
- SaintGhurka 4y agoCulturelle. Just their basic "Digestive Daily Probiotic". It's a single strain Lactobacillus rhamnosus. My Dr. suggested either that or Align. The first thing I tried worked so I haven't tried anything else. A friend of mine had the same problem and he buys generic bulk acidophilus from amazon and he says it works for him. I didn't expect it to work, but I didn't want to wonder if it failed because I cheaped out, so I went for the expensive stuff.
- philliphaydon 4y agoDefinitely going to try this too. I go though periods of acid reflux and it wakes me up. I sleep with 2 pillows so raise my head and shoulders to prevent it waking me which helps most of the time. But will give the probiotics a try. Thanks.
- SaintGhurka 4y agoGood luck. I hope it works for you.
- stainforth 4y agoCurious - are you a back sleeper? (Or what type of sleeper are you?)
- philliphaydon 4y agoSometimes sleep on my left side. Sometimes on my back.
- klohto 4y agoWhat was the bacteria you introduced to your system? I’m on the market for some.
- SaintGhurka 4y agoLactobacillus rhamnosus. It's the strain in Culturelle. Expensive compared to others but still cheap.
- PragmaticPulp 4y ago> Probiotics are a cheap and risk-free. Not entirely risk-free, but the side effects of a negative reaction don’t last too long at least. I felt notably worse for about a week after trying one of the mainstream probiotic brands with strange brain fog I couldn’t shake. This effect was repeatable and I could start the malaise again by resuming the probiotic. The same effect didn’t happen with another antibiotic with different strains. Probiotics could be worth trying, but you have to go in with the understanding that the possible outcomes are more than just “no effect” and “improved health”. Worsening is also a real possibility.
- jessermeyer 4y agoThe brain fog could have been a consequence of the ensuing biological war you started by introducing a new strain of bacteria to your digestion for which your metabolism had yet to adapt to.
- PragmaticPulp 4y agoMore likely that it’s the case that more bacteria in your stomach isn’t necessarily a better thing. These negative effects have been noted in the literature, too, so I’m not alone: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6006167/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6006167/
- jessermeyer 4y agoI did not imply probiotics were a panacea. Difficult to imagine such a biological war playing out in every host beneficially. Although the study you mention is concerned with an unusual fermentation process, which may be caused by a different biological mechanism.
- PragmaticPulp 4y agoThe link was about probiotics causing or contributing to intestinal bacterial overgrowth. It’s a real risk.
- amelius 4y agoWas that OTC probiotics? Most of them seem to need refrigeration, and I'm surprised they are not sold as such (just placed on non-refrigerated shelves in stores or sent by mail in a normal box without cooling).
- SaintGhurka 4y agoYes it's OTC. My box just says to store in a "cool dry place away from sunlight". It doesn't specify a temperature range.
- AmateurLeader 4y ago> Probiotics are a cheap and risk-free. They are not risk-free, also not in inflammation type issues. In this (RCT) trial in patients with acute pancreatitis, probiotics actually lead to death (with no deaths in the control group). [0] [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18279948/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18279948/
- pcarolan 4y agoCan you recommend at good product at that price point?
- SaintGhurka 4y agoThe only one I've ever taken is "Culturelle Digestive Daily Probiotic". It comes to $0.50 per pill. There are much cheaper generics but I haven't had the guts (no pun intended) to switch away from what's working to try them.
- chasebank 4y agoI have a sample size of 1 as well. Probiotics didn’t help me but I’ve dealt with digestive issues for the last 4 years after a bout of food poisoning. I used to think gut flora / microbiome was quackery but I recently did an oral FMT (fecal microbiata transplant) the results were unreal. For reference, I’m a 37 y/o fit male and donor was 18 y/o female. After 2nd week I got the deepest sleep since I was a child (slept for 11 hours straight - went to bed, teleported to the morning) and woke up with this hard to describe feeling. I literally felt like I was 16 again. This sort of optimism / happiness I hadn’t felt in years. And I’m a generally happy dude! All my symptoms went away and the euphoric feeling persisted. Whatever the bacteria did was truly remarkable. The bad news is a few weeks after the FMT was finished, things went back to the way they were before. I’d continue to do them forever but it was very expensive, $1400 for the month. Fwiw, I tried it again with another donor with zero results so I could have been a fluke. I do think I’ll try it again with the original donor. It was a spectacular month. I really think the microbiome is a major key to our health and wellness. Remember the blood boy from Silicon Valley? I bet we see ‘fecal boys’ for rich people in the near future. If you’re interested, I’ll link the source and study I based my dosage off below. The guy who runs the fmt operation very passionate about the concept. [0] https://www.humanmicrobes.org/ https://www.humanmicrobes.org/ [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7866462/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7866462/
- SaintGhurka 4y agoThank you for that. I've wondered if those transplants stick. Hopefully this becomes an area of major research because all the anecdotes sound so promising.
- loufe 4y agoThis was a fascinating read, thank you for sharing. Were there really no lasting effects? I'm curious why the introduced bacteria didn't flourish and permanently change your microbiome. Can anybody weigh in?
- z3t4 4y agoWe are what we eat. Could try changing to the same diet as the donor...
- dan_quixote 4y agoMind sharing the brand/product?
- SaintGhurka 4y agoNot at all, although I'm beginning to feel like a bit of a shill for the company. I use "Culturelle Digestive Daily Probiotic". My Dr. suggested either that or "Align". His comment on that was that they are delivery systems that are designed to let the bacteria survive the trip through the extreme environment of the stomach.
- dan_quixote 4y agoThanks. This is the problem with unregulated supplements - internet strangers sharing recommendations is just about the best heuristic we've got!
- cortic 4y agoThere is a risk here we are not talking about; Some significant number of people die every year trying low risk solutions to high risk problems, while not being qualified to judge risk. Probiotics, tinctures, vitamins and a gluten free diet basically killed a friends mother who spent years on these things while her undiagnosed stomach cancer spread everywhere. The issue as i see it, is that there is profit to be made stringing people along from one 'cheap and harmless shot in the dark' to the next.
- encryptluks2 4y agoI don't think people are advocating to not see a doctor and discuss issues, but that there are intermediary steps that can be tried. Sorry to hear what happened to your friend's mom. I've seen the opposite where doctors will over prescribe and rarely ever test and that ends up killing people too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying supplemental treatments and it is really no different than OTC remedies that people spend billions on each year.
- phkahler 4y agoThe problem I have with "take probiotics" is that there are hundreds or even thousands of species of bacteria that could be classified as "probiotics". Which ones of these have positive influence on mood or physical health? How can a person know what to expect from a bottle of stuff at Whole Foods or where-ever?
- Auracle 4y agoI wonder if prebiotics are a better choice, with fecal transplants done for when you have a real issue. For what it’s worth, and doctors obviously don’t suggest this, you can easily do a fecal transplant at home. By “easily” I mean that the process is simple, not that it isn’t super gross.
- ada1981 4y agoHaving dirty sex with happy people is how our species has done this since the Dawn of man.
- phkahler 4y agoI didn't even want to joke about that on HN, but it did cross my mind. Find a happy healthy person and (somehow) ask them for some fecal matter and do a transplant. Or just start licking butts... ugh
- selimthegrim 4y agoI think they found out when studying maternal vaginal swabbing for seeding microbiota Caesarean newborns that the bacteria were actually either airborne from the maternal fecal route or somehow getting into the baby from there
- zrail 4y agoPooping during delivery is a thing. So that's entirely believable.
- Darkphibre 4y agoWhat's the brand/dosage you use? There's so many different brands out there.
- SaintGhurka 4y agoCulturelle Digestive Daily Probiotic. It's dosage says 40 mg and "10 Billion CFUs". It also has Inulin in it, whatever that is. I take one every other day.
- saxonww 4y agoInulin is classified as a dietary fiber. It's an indigestible polysaccharide that ends up being eaten by microbes in your gut. A lot of packaged foods that are high in fiber that you wouldn't expect to be, have inulin. I remember buying some plain 'greek' yogurt for a while that was advertising fiber per serving, and it had added inulin. Anything containing chicory or jerusalem artichoke is probably high in inulin. If you're not used to eating it - and this is true of a lot of dietary fibers and prebiotics - be prepared for gas. Like potentially uncomfortably large amounts of it. That side effect is supposed to lessen as your gut adjusts to the change, though.
- edejong 4y agoProbiotics are not necessarily low risk when used during or after antibiotics usage. Quoting directly from [1] "Effect of Probiotic Use on Antibiotic Administration Among Care Home Residents: A Randomized Clinical Trial" "...participants who were randomized to the probiotic group were administered significantly more antibiotics for lower respiratory tract infections, had small but statistically significant lower self-reported generic well-being/capability scores at 3 months, and a prespecified sensitivity analysis found a significant increase in cumulative systemic antibiotic days. These findings should be interpreted with caution, given multiple testing. However, this study does not rule out harm from probiotics. Certain probiotics may delay the return of the host gut microbiome to its normal state after antibiotic treatment,[2] and a retrospective single-center study found probiotic exposure was associated with C difficile infection in hospitalized patients.[3]" [1] Butler CC, Lau M, Gillespie D, et al. Effect of Probiotic Use on Antibiotic Administration Among Care Home Residents: A Randomized Clinical Trial. JAMA. 2020;324(1):47–56. doi:10.1001/jama.2020.8556 [2] Suez J , Zmora N , Zilberman-Schapira G , et al Post-antibiotic gut mucosal microbiome reconstitution is impaired by probiotics and improved by autologous FMT. Cell. 2018;174(6):1406-1423.e1416. doi:10.1016/j.cell.2018.08.047 [3] Carvour ML , Wilder SL , Ryan KL , et al. Predictors of Clostridium difficile infection and predictive impact of probiotic use in a diverse hospital-wide cohort. Am J Infect Control. 2019;47(1):2-8. doi:10.1016/j.ajic.2018.07.014
- pazimzadeh 4y agoProbiotics will compete with whatever is in your gut. If you have a messed up microbiota, then that would be a good thing. If you have a healthy microbiota, then taking probiotics could backfire. Taking probiotics can slow down the recovery of your original microbiota, after taking antibiotics: https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(18)31108-5 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(18)31108-5
- lr4444lr 4y agoBrand? Dosage?
- SaintGhurka 4y agoPlease see my answer to this sibling comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31780214 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31780214