10 ms·

Ploopy open source thumb trackball

111 points by napolux 4y ago

samstave 4y ago
https://i.imgur.com/3SQFeHK.png https://i.imgur.com/3SQFeHK.png
UmYeahNo 4y ago
Hugged to death w/in 10 mins. I caught a glimpse of the page -- is there a lefty model? Or as with many left-right specific products do we get screwed?
- guitarbill 4y ago
  The page worked for me, but you can also try looking at the STLs their GitHub: https://github.com/ploopyco/thumb-trackball https://github.com/ploopyco/thumb-trackball
- napolux 4y ago
  Check https://web.archive.org/web/20220313204334/https://ploopy.co/thumb-trackball/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220313204334/https://ploopy.co...
- UmYeahNo 4y ago
  From the site: We now offer trackballs for left-handed ballers! It’s exactly identical to a right-handed trackball, but it’s for lefties. Celebrate! But note that the writing and the logo and all of that is actually mirrored!
rtpg 4y ago
What an unfortunate name. I don't get it, have some pride in your thing! Looks like an awesome product though. Like sibling, as a lefty I would love to see a "mirrored" version of this product. I do wonder about the general feel of the case. It's 3d printed yeah? Perhaps this is very dependent on the materials. But overall an open design will mean that people can iterate on this idea and share knowledge. A win-win for everyone involved!
- beeskneecaps 4y ago
  What’s wrong with the name? It sounds cute. Oh: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ploopy https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ploopy
  - GordonS 4y ago
    It sounds and looks like "poopy", and makes me think of poo.
    - greggsy 4y ago
      I agree. Sure it’s fun, but some people will either be turned off by it as it brings up negative connotations, and it can impact word of mouth effects if people don’t want to recommend something that the other party might think sounds juvenile.
  - nsxwolf 4y ago
    I'm shy about saying silly words, so I would never be able to recommend this product or talk about it. There's a bunch of food items I won't order off a menu if the restaurant chose to give it some ridiculous name I can't say out loud. Same thing here.
- Zondartul 4y ago
  Can anyone confirm if the trackball is actually ploopy? Looks like ordinary hard plastic from the pics.
  - aidenn0 4y ago
    I own one; it a normal FDM 3D print, with ridges and all. I assume PLA, but could be ABS.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  Their take on it: https://blog.ploopy.co/yall-need-a-new-name-48 https://blog.ploopy.co/yall-need-a-new-name-48
zikzak 4y ago
Not knocking this product, but I personally prefer a trackball on top with buttons to either side. My thumb get very stressed out using the "on the side" arrangement where the top I can vary how I interact with it more (hover hand, rest a finger on it, flick it with index/middle, etc). ~~Either~~ Both are preferable to the standard mouse for me, though!
- randlet 4y ago
  I'm similar. I prefer a symmetrical trackball so I can alternate hands and give the other hand a rest. I have been happily using a Kensington Orbit [1] for many years now. It has a scroll ring surrounding the track ball which I also really like. Absolutely love this trackball! [1] https://www.kensington.com/p/products/electronic-control-solutions/trackball-products/orbit-trackball-with-scroll-ring/ https://www.kensington.com/p/products/electronic-control-sol...
  - VyseofArcadia 4y ago
    I have the Kensington Expert Mouse [1] which is just great. [1] https://www.kensington.com/p/products/electronic-control-solutions/trackball-products/expert-mouse-wireless-trackball-1/ https://www.kensington.com/p/products/electronic-control-sol...
    - kps 4y ago
      For me, it's Kensington Slimblade¹ sunk into a desk cutout, since wrist extension (bending up/back) is an RSI problem for me. ¹ https://www.kensington.com/p/products/electronic-control-solutions/trackball-products/slimblade-trackball/ https://www.kensington.com/p/products/electronic-control-sol...
    - randlet 4y ago
      That looks pretty nice too although the angle of it concerns me a bit. I use a standing desk so it looks like it might require me to bend my wrists backwards a bit more than the Orbit. I might give it a try though.
geokon 4y ago
Interesting/clever flexible board design that eliminates the need for one cable. Never seen that before. You can see it a bit more clearly on the sister product page: https://ploopy.co/mini-trackball/ https://ploopy.co/mini-trackball/
VyseofArcadia 4y ago
Longtime trackball user. I'd totally buy one, but they don't sell it in a configuration I like. I wish they'd sell me everything except the shell. I have a 3D printer. I'd rather customize and print my own shell. I mean, I guess I could get the kit, but then I have a random empty mouse that I need to do something with.
- thecrumb 4y ago
  Agree - wish they'd sell the non-printable components as a kit and let me print the rest.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
    Ploopy has come up on HN before and I’m pretty sure similar complaints were made. I’d happily buy the non printed parts too.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  Did you try emailing them? Wouldn't be surprised if you could place a "custom order" since it seems a very small outfit (or maybe not, I don't know).
dwrowe 4y ago
This simply reminds me of the absolute graveyard of Logitech M570s that I’m holding on to for some reason. A couple have worn out switches, others need cleaned. Love the thumb trackball.
- entropicgravity 4y ago
  Upgrade to the MX Ergo maybe?
ryukafalz 4y ago
I have one of these and it’s by far the most comfortable trackball I use. It took a bit of tweaking the sensitivity to get it to the point I like (it’s very sensitive out of the box) but the firmware’s all free so I can tweak it however I like :)
- aidenn0 4y ago
  I wish I had a 3D printer, because my hands are too small for my ploopy (I have very small hands). Going back to my EX-G for now.
  - jcims 4y ago
    Ender 3 V2 - ~$250 fantastic product for the money
adhoc_slime 4y ago
The site is currently "hugged" so here is a github link: https://github.com/ploopyco https://github.com/ploopyco
cbm-vic-20 4y ago
I've been a die-hard thumbball user for nearly 25 years; I'm still nursing my old-school wired 1999-era Logitech Trackman Wheel. Ploopy's thumb trackball looks great! What does the customizable firmware get me? I've never considered "layers" on a pointing device, like a keyboard.
- brirec 4y ago
  Well for one, it runs the same open-source firmware that most open-source mechanical keyboards use. You can alter anything you want about it, including things like the tracking of the ball, drag-to-scroll in firmware, button mapping, and indeed layers. It's running mainline QMK.
- rgoulter 4y ago
  > What does the customizable firmware get me? I've never considered "layers" on a pointing device, like a keyboard. I could see it as useful; although maybe not with these trackball designs. I'm not sure what form factor you'd want for layers. But, I could see stuff like "go desktop left/right", "prev/next tab", "skip video forward/back", "volume up/down" as things which it'd be neat to while casually using a computer, without needing hand on the keyboard.
blakesterz 4y ago
There was a pretty interesting interview with them on The Verge last month: https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/10/23065171/ploopy-trackball-open-source-vergecast-podcast https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/10/23065171/ploopy-trackball...
coredog64 4y ago
From the image, I get strong “Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer” vibes.
- martinml 4y ago
  Actually, it seems identical to the Microsoft Trackball Optical Mouse (D67-0001): https://sep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-90432262887525/microsoft-trackball-optical-mouse-p-n-d67-00011-1.gif https://sep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-90432262887525/microsoft-trackb... I loved that trackball!
micromacrofoot 4y ago
Oh neat, it's been a while since I've checked in on this project! I hope they find enough success to move on to other configurations. I saw a nano version floating around at one point, which was literally just a ball without buttons.
thebrainkid 4y ago
I was looking at the archived version [0], and I had a question. Regarding their PCB design (visible on the bottom of the page, with additional details here [1], could someone explain why the optic part is separated from the rest of the board by a long, wavy connection? (I am trying to learn more about PCB design ideas and principles.) Thanks! [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20220313204334/https://ploopy.co/thumb-trackball/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220313204334/https://ploopy.co... [1] https://github.com/ploopyco/thumb-trackball/blob/main/hardware/electronics/Thumb-R1_001.pdf https://github.com/ploopyco/thumb-trackball/blob/main/hardwa...
- grae_QED 4y ago
  > Regarding their PCB design (visible on the bottom of the page, with additional details here [1], could someone explain why the optic part is separated from the rest of the board by a long, wavy connection? I think the pcb has to be slightly bent to accommodate the angled position of the track ball. Making it like that helps alleviate stresses on the pcb.
  - thebrainkid 4y ago
    Makes sense! Thanks!
  - mhb 4y ago
    Not just slightly bent. See here: https://ploopy.co/mini-trackball/ https://ploopy.co/mini-trackball/ Clever.
    - thebrainkid 4y ago
      Very interesting! Thanks!
- hansihe 4y ago
  If I where to guess it would be to act as a spring to push the sensor against the ball
rsponholtz 4y ago
Is this just a trackball, or is it a mouse too? It would seem like a combo (where the trackball or moving the whole thing moves the pointer) would be awesome! Every time I’ve tried a trackball, my thumb got really tired after a while.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  It's just a trackball. One of the things you want with trackballs is that they "grip" to the surface so it doesn't move easily, the exact opposite you'd want with a mouse, so you need some solution for that (removable bottom like the MX ergo?) I agree it might be nice, but I think it's probably a niche in an already niche market.
tyingq 4y ago
Not directly related, but I have fond memories of finally getting a Kensington Expert trackball (the old big, white one) to work with mame versions of Missile Command, Marble Madness, Golden Tee Golf, etc. There's something about the trackball oriented games that just really hit my nostalgia button harder than other games.
- dekhn 4y ago
  I bought an X-arcade which has dual joysticks and a center trackball. Just to play Marble Madness.
supermatt 4y ago
I tried thumballs for years and got never get into them - a fingerball (which ploopy also make) works better for me. I have been using an Elecom HUGE for about a year now: https://elecomus.com/web/product/3271/ https://elecomus.com/web/product/3271/.
- thedanbob 4y ago
  The HUGE is the only peripheral I liked so much that I bought a second one for home. Been using them for over 4 years now.
matthiaswh 4y ago
I have been using one for a few months after getting tired of throwing away M570s once a year because the switches wear out. (By throwing out, I mean tossing in the closet in the hope that one day I'll get around to soldering on new switches.) Out of the box it was way, way too sensitive. I had to turn down the DPI, which took a few hours of finagling with the firmware. Some of the documentation was a little sparse, and I chased down a few rabbit holes which got frustrating. Now that it's configured it's mostly usable, but I still struggle with precision compared to the M570. I find myself a few times a week clicking the wrong icon on a bar, or the wrong item in a list. Or my hand tenses up because I'm working extra hard to hone in on the right place on the screen. These are problems that I never had with the old Logitech, and in fact, I still have a working one on the desk that I jump to occasionally when I need real precision. The M570 has 3 little nylon-looking bearings that the trackball sits on. The Ploopy instead has 3 large wheel shaped rotators. Every once in awhile the trackball will seemingly catch a hitch on the rotators when I'm trying to make precise movements and I'm unable to get where I need it to go unless I make coarse adjustments to move the rotators off the hitch, then back a different path to where I was before, finally to make the precision movements I needed. Not the end of the world, but another minor annoyance. This has happened less lately so it's possible there was a "breaking in period" with the rotators. Overall it's a decent device and after a few months I am mostly happy with it. Durability is TBD.
- dralley 4y ago
  Does anyone know - is the Logitech MX Ergo more durable than the M570? I, too, have a pile of broken M570s and I'm not sure I want to spend more money on the upgrade if the result will be the same within a year or two.
  - css 4y ago
    I have had the same MX Ergo for a few years now; no issues. I went through several M570s before making the switch. In addition to durability I had constant signal issues with my M570s–lag, dropouts, etc–that I do not experience with my Ergo.
    - 4y ago
brirec 4y ago
I ordered one of their Classic models a few weeks ago, it should be here Monday. (They just moved warehouses, so my order was delayed.) I'm really excited for it! The trackball uses QMK firmware (https://qmk.fm https://qmk.fm), which is mostly known for powering open-source mechanical keyboards. Customizing it is a breeze, and it's got a whole lot of great functionality built-in too! One of the big things that pushed me to Ploopy is the use of roller bearings, although now I see there's a ball-transfer-unit mod which is basically the ideal form of bearing for this: https://github.com/ploopyco/classic-trackball/tree/master/hardware/Mechanicals-BTU-Mod https://github.com/ploopyco/classic-trackball/tree/master/ha...
mft_ 4y ago
Total aside, but I always get a chuckle when mainstream publications have to attribute quotes to someone with a weird (or rude) Reddit username. Good to see you leaning in to this with your testimonials!
Forricide 4y ago
Maybe slightly off topic, but - looking at this mouse, the shape it has overall is exactly what I'm looking for ergonomically (not vertical, but slightly more slanted). Are there mice like this that have 3+ side buttons instead of a trackball?
Julesman 4y ago
I wish them all the luck in the world, but trackballs are bad for repetitive stress of the thumb joints and shouldn't be used by long term computer workers.
- NateEag 4y ago
  I had terrible RSI from mouse usage. Switching to a thumb trackball resolved those issues.
  - mbreese 4y ago
    I suspect it was the act of switching that was key, not the trackball itself. I had horrible pain a year or so ago due to working with the lovely designed Apple Magic Mouse for so long. Eventually, I learned that for me, I was better off switching between devices. So now I flip between a trackpad and two different mice. That’s what worked for me.
    - rambambram 4y ago
      I also did that in the past. After a while, I had to switch to another one for the RSI to go away. Eventually I was switching between a regular mouse, a Logitech with the thumb ball, a Logitech with the finger ball, and a Wacom trackpad with pencil. I also found out the remedy was more in the switching than in anything else. For years now I use the regular mouse without switching to others.
    - NateEag 4y ago
      I've been using thumb trackball consistently for 15 years now. I don't think switching devices is what did it. I did lower my pointing device usage overall at the same time, so that has a confounding effect.
freeqaz 4y ago
This appears to have been hugged to death. Anybody got a link for an archived version?
zwilliamson 4y ago
I enjoy the foul language “no cheap shit.” Not quiet the level of the pit viper sunglasses site but close!
dang 4y ago
Related: Ploopy: open hardware trackballs and mouse - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28285427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28285427 - Aug 2021 (134 comments)
samstave 4y ago
Ill never forget my first mouse. ~1988 or so... 386sx, 2400 baud modem, and a local friend who I played Populous with multi-player over modem. (aside from BBS games, I dont recall other games played via modem? He is now an EVP at blizzard) This mouse wasa gift to me from my stepmother as she was courting my dad and wanted my buy-in. and a way to 'flex' she left the pricetag on the mouse. $69.99 1988. That price made sense given the novelty of the mouse. $200 FN dollars for a trackball? 2022. I love it, but will never buy one.
- samstave 4y ago
  https://i.imgur.com/LhAsB8Y.png https://i.imgur.com/LhAsB8Y.png Inflation appears to both say 1988 prices are the same as today, and at the same time, refute that... Can anyone please let me know if I am reading this [wrong/WTF]
ChrisArchitect 4y ago
Is this trackball a new product release? Some previous discussion about Ploopy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28285427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28285427
karmakaze 4y ago
What advantages (or disadvantages) do you all trackball users have over using a mouse/trackpad? The only problems I've ever had with the mouse was stiff neck/shoulders (which I think was more to do with bad posture and desk/keyboard/mouse height) and shooting pains on the back of my mouse hand, possibly from clicking the buttons but the trackball has similar buttons. Would I appreciate any increases in speed/accuracy over a mouse or touchpad? If that were true pro-gamers should be using them. Being in one place means it can stay closer to the keyboard, so that's a plus--might be cool to have a laptop with a trackball under your palms on home row.
- tbrownaw 4y ago
  I don't need a big area for a mousepad. I don't have to care if I'm working someplace without a perfectly level surface for a mousepad. I can spin the ball quickly to move the cursor long distances (multiple 4k screens). . Trackpads are annoying because of the tiny distance they allow without multiple strokes. . I tried a tiny thumb trackball a couple times, but it sucked for both precision and speed. Like, bad enough that I couldn't fix it very well with the acceleration settings.
zevon 4y ago
I have RSI which led to an operation as well as a collection of different input devices. A few of them are trackballs (OTOH: Microsoft Trackball Explorer which the Ploopy is shaped after, Logitech Trackman Marble FX, Trackman Marble and MX Ergo but I've also tried others like the CST). I also have a few mouse variations and I've extensively used Trackpoints in the past. Variation certainly helps but what I keep coming back to are Apple's trackpads. The modern versions (the ones using force sensing instead of buttons) in combination with turning the sensitivity way up and enabling more mulitouch gestures are really, really good for me. I've yet to find another input device that requires less wrist movement and less force to use.
IYasha 4y ago
My love is overflowing when I see open hardware! Your project is awesome! Although I'm kind of worried about expensive solutions used in this project like curvy-shaped PCBs, and mad DPI sensors probably use amount of energy that is a bit higher than average which is a concern for laptop users. But this is a high-end product anyway. ) Also, seeing many HID enthusiasts in this thread, I'd really want to ask a question. Please forgive my selfishness ) All of my computer life I've been searching for ergonomic mouse that would have buttons clickable not by pressing down, but by pulling them towards the hand, like a trigger on a gun. By grabbing. I had a balled COM-port mouse once, shaped like a half sphere with 2 buttons and it was OUTSTANDING! It was ridiculously simple. Maybe it'll be reproducible with a 3D printer... Anyway, have anyone seen anything like this on the market? A wired grab-clickable mouse?

111 points by napolux 4y ago

https://i.imgur.com/3SQFeHK.png https://i.imgur.com/3SQFeHK.png

Hugged to death w/in 10 mins. I caught a glimpse of the page -- is there a lefty model? Or as with many left-right specific products do we get screwed?

guitarbill 4y ago
The page worked for me, but you can also try looking at the STLs their GitHub: https://github.com/ploopyco/thumb-trackball https://github.com/ploopyco/thumb-trackball
napolux 4y ago
Check https://web.archive.org/web/20220313204334/https://ploopy.co/thumb-trackball/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220313204334/https://ploopy.co...
UmYeahNo 4y ago
From the site: We now offer trackballs for left-handed ballers! It’s exactly identical to a right-handed trackball, but it’s for lefties. Celebrate! But note that the writing and the logo and all of that is actually mirrored!

rtpg 4y ago

What an unfortunate name. I don't get it, have some pride in your thing! Looks like an awesome product though. Like sibling, as a lefty I would love to see a "mirrored" version of this product. I do wonder about the general feel of the case. It's 3d printed yeah? Perhaps this is very dependent on the materials. But overall an open design will mean that people can iterate on this idea and share knowledge. A win-win for everyone involved!

beeskneecaps 4y ago
What’s wrong with the name? It sounds cute. Oh: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ploopy https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ploopy
- GordonS 4y ago
  It sounds and looks like "poopy", and makes me think of poo.
  - greggsy 4y ago
    I agree. Sure it’s fun, but some people will either be turned off by it as it brings up negative connotations, and it can impact word of mouth effects if people don’t want to recommend something that the other party might think sounds juvenile.
- nsxwolf 4y ago
  I'm shy about saying silly words, so I would never be able to recommend this product or talk about it. There's a bunch of food items I won't order off a menu if the restaurant chose to give it some ridiculous name I can't say out loud. Same thing here.
Zondartul 4y ago
Can anyone confirm if the trackball is actually ploopy? Looks like ordinary hard plastic from the pics.
- aidenn0 4y ago
  I own one; it a normal FDM 3D print, with ridges and all. I assume PLA, but could be ABS.
Beltalowda 4y ago
Their take on it: https://blog.ploopy.co/yall-need-a-new-name-48 https://blog.ploopy.co/yall-need-a-new-name-48

zikzak 4y ago

Not knocking this product, but I personally prefer a trackball on top with buttons to either side. My thumb get very stressed out using the "on the side" arrangement where the top I can vary how I interact with it more (hover hand, rest a finger on it, flick it with index/middle, etc). ~~Either~~ Both are preferable to the standard mouse for me, though!

randlet 4y ago
I'm similar. I prefer a symmetrical trackball so I can alternate hands and give the other hand a rest. I have been happily using a Kensington Orbit [1] for many years now. It has a scroll ring surrounding the track ball which I also really like. Absolutely love this trackball! [1] https://www.kensington.com/p/products/electronic-control-solutions/trackball-products/orbit-trackball-with-scroll-ring/ https://www.kensington.com/p/products/electronic-control-sol...
- VyseofArcadia 4y ago
  I have the Kensington Expert Mouse [1] which is just great. [1] https://www.kensington.com/p/products/electronic-control-solutions/trackball-products/expert-mouse-wireless-trackball-1/ https://www.kensington.com/p/products/electronic-control-sol...
  - kps 4y ago
    For me, it's Kensington Slimblade¹ sunk into a desk cutout, since wrist extension (bending up/back) is an RSI problem for me. ¹ https://www.kensington.com/p/products/electronic-control-solutions/trackball-products/slimblade-trackball/ https://www.kensington.com/p/products/electronic-control-sol...
  - randlet 4y ago
    That looks pretty nice too although the angle of it concerns me a bit. I use a standing desk so it looks like it might require me to bend my wrists backwards a bit more than the Orbit. I might give it a try though.

geokon 4y ago

Interesting/clever flexible board design that eliminates the need for one cable. Never seen that before. You can see it a bit more clearly on the sister product page: https://ploopy.co/mini-trackball/ https://ploopy.co/mini-trackball/

VyseofArcadia 4y ago

Longtime trackball user. I'd totally buy one, but they don't sell it in a configuration I like. I wish they'd sell me everything except the shell. I have a 3D printer. I'd rather customize and print my own shell. I mean, I guess I could get the kit, but then I have a random empty mouse that I need to do something with.

thecrumb 4y ago
Agree - wish they'd sell the non-printable components as a kit and let me print the rest.
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  Ploopy has come up on HN before and I’m pretty sure similar complaints were made. I’d happily buy the non printed parts too.
Beltalowda 4y ago
Did you try emailing them? Wouldn't be surprised if you could place a "custom order" since it seems a very small outfit (or maybe not, I don't know).

dwrowe 4y ago

This simply reminds me of the absolute graveyard of Logitech M570s that I’m holding on to for some reason. A couple have worn out switches, others need cleaned. Love the thumb trackball.

entropicgravity 4y ago
Upgrade to the MX Ergo maybe?

ryukafalz 4y ago

I have one of these and it’s by far the most comfortable trackball I use. It took a bit of tweaking the sensitivity to get it to the point I like (it’s very sensitive out of the box) but the firmware’s all free so I can tweak it however I like :)

aidenn0 4y ago
I wish I had a 3D printer, because my hands are too small for my ploopy (I have very small hands). Going back to my EX-G for now.
- jcims 4y ago
  Ender 3 V2 - ~$250 fantastic product for the money

adhoc_slime 4y ago

The site is currently "hugged" so here is a github link: https://github.com/ploopyco https://github.com/ploopyco

cbm-vic-20 4y ago

I've been a die-hard thumbball user for nearly 25 years; I'm still nursing my old-school wired 1999-era Logitech Trackman Wheel. Ploopy's thumb trackball looks great! What does the customizable firmware get me? I've never considered "layers" on a pointing device, like a keyboard.

brirec 4y ago
Well for one, it runs the same open-source firmware that most open-source mechanical keyboards use. You can alter anything you want about it, including things like the tracking of the ball, drag-to-scroll in firmware, button mapping, and indeed layers. It's running mainline QMK.
rgoulter 4y ago
> What does the customizable firmware get me? I've never considered "layers" on a pointing device, like a keyboard. I could see it as useful; although maybe not with these trackball designs. I'm not sure what form factor you'd want for layers. But, I could see stuff like "go desktop left/right", "prev/next tab", "skip video forward/back", "volume up/down" as things which it'd be neat to while casually using a computer, without needing hand on the keyboard.

blakesterz 4y ago

There was a pretty interesting interview with them on The Verge last month: https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/10/23065171/ploopy-trackball-open-source-vergecast-podcast https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/10/23065171/ploopy-trackball...

coredog64 4y ago

From the image, I get strong “Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer” vibes.

martinml 4y ago
Actually, it seems identical to the Microsoft Trackball Optical Mouse (D67-0001): https://sep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-90432262887525/microsoft-trackball-optical-mouse-p-n-d67-00011-1.gif https://sep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-90432262887525/microsoft-trackb... I loved that trackball!

micromacrofoot 4y ago

Oh neat, it's been a while since I've checked in on this project! I hope they find enough success to move on to other configurations. I saw a nano version floating around at one point, which was literally just a ball without buttons.

thebrainkid 4y ago

I was looking at the archived version [0], and I had a question. Regarding their PCB design (visible on the bottom of the page, with additional details here [1], could someone explain why the optic part is separated from the rest of the board by a long, wavy connection? (I am trying to learn more about PCB design ideas and principles.) Thanks! [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20220313204334/https://ploopy.co/thumb-trackball/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220313204334/https://ploopy.co... [1] https://github.com/ploopyco/thumb-trackball/blob/main/hardware/electronics/Thumb-R1_001.pdf https://github.com/ploopyco/thumb-trackball/blob/main/hardwa...

grae_QED 4y ago
> Regarding their PCB design (visible on the bottom of the page, with additional details here [1], could someone explain why the optic part is separated from the rest of the board by a long, wavy connection? I think the pcb has to be slightly bent to accommodate the angled position of the track ball. Making it like that helps alleviate stresses on the pcb.
- thebrainkid 4y ago
  Makes sense! Thanks!
- mhb 4y ago
  Not just slightly bent. See here: https://ploopy.co/mini-trackball/ https://ploopy.co/mini-trackball/ Clever.
  - thebrainkid 4y ago
    Very interesting! Thanks!
hansihe 4y ago
If I where to guess it would be to act as a spring to push the sensor against the ball

rsponholtz 4y ago

Is this just a trackball, or is it a mouse too? It would seem like a combo (where the trackball or moving the whole thing moves the pointer) would be awesome! Every time I’ve tried a trackball, my thumb got really tired after a while.

Beltalowda 4y ago
It's just a trackball. One of the things you want with trackballs is that they "grip" to the surface so it doesn't move easily, the exact opposite you'd want with a mouse, so you need some solution for that (removable bottom like the MX ergo?) I agree it might be nice, but I think it's probably a niche in an already niche market.

tyingq 4y ago

Not directly related, but I have fond memories of finally getting a Kensington Expert trackball (the old big, white one) to work with mame versions of Missile Command, Marble Madness, Golden Tee Golf, etc. There's something about the trackball oriented games that just really hit my nostalgia button harder than other games.

dekhn 4y ago
I bought an X-arcade which has dual joysticks and a center trackball. Just to play Marble Madness.

supermatt 4y ago

I tried thumballs for years and got never get into them - a fingerball (which ploopy also make) works better for me. I have been using an Elecom HUGE for about a year now: https://elecomus.com/web/product/3271/ https://elecomus.com/web/product/3271/.

thedanbob 4y ago
The HUGE is the only peripheral I liked so much that I bought a second one for home. Been using them for over 4 years now.

matthiaswh 4y ago

I have been using one for a few months after getting tired of throwing away M570s once a year because the switches wear out. (By throwing out, I mean tossing in the closet in the hope that one day I'll get around to soldering on new switches.) Out of the box it was way, way too sensitive. I had to turn down the DPI, which took a few hours of finagling with the firmware. Some of the documentation was a little sparse, and I chased down a few rabbit holes which got frustrating. Now that it's configured it's mostly usable, but I still struggle with precision compared to the M570. I find myself a few times a week clicking the wrong icon on a bar, or the wrong item in a list. Or my hand tenses up because I'm working extra hard to hone in on the right place on the screen. These are problems that I never had with the old Logitech, and in fact, I still have a working one on the desk that I jump to occasionally when I need real precision. The M570 has 3 little nylon-looking bearings that the trackball sits on. The Ploopy instead has 3 large wheel shaped rotators. Every once in awhile the trackball will seemingly catch a hitch on the rotators when I'm trying to make precise movements and I'm unable to get where I need it to go unless I make coarse adjustments to move the rotators off the hitch, then back a different path to where I was before, finally to make the precision movements I needed. Not the end of the world, but another minor annoyance. This has happened less lately so it's possible there was a "breaking in period" with the rotators. Overall it's a decent device and after a few months I am mostly happy with it. Durability is TBD.

dralley 4y ago
Does anyone know - is the Logitech MX Ergo more durable than the M570? I, too, have a pile of broken M570s and I'm not sure I want to spend more money on the upgrade if the result will be the same within a year or two.
- css 4y ago
  I have had the same MX Ergo for a few years now; no issues. I went through several M570s before making the switch. In addition to durability I had constant signal issues with my M570s–lag, dropouts, etc–that I do not experience with my Ergo.
  - 4y ago

brirec 4y ago

I ordered one of their Classic models a few weeks ago, it should be here Monday. (They just moved warehouses, so my order was delayed.) I'm really excited for it! The trackball uses QMK firmware (https://qmk.fm https://qmk.fm), which is mostly known for powering open-source mechanical keyboards. Customizing it is a breeze, and it's got a whole lot of great functionality built-in too! One of the big things that pushed me to Ploopy is the use of roller bearings, although now I see there's a ball-transfer-unit mod which is basically the ideal form of bearing for this: https://github.com/ploopyco/classic-trackball/tree/master/hardware/Mechanicals-BTU-Mod https://github.com/ploopyco/classic-trackball/tree/master/ha...

mft_ 4y ago

Total aside, but I always get a chuckle when mainstream publications have to attribute quotes to someone with a weird (or rude) Reddit username. Good to see you leaning in to this with your testimonials!

Forricide 4y ago

Maybe slightly off topic, but - looking at this mouse, the shape it has overall is exactly what I'm looking for ergonomically (not vertical, but slightly more slanted). Are there mice like this that have 3+ side buttons instead of a trackball?

Julesman 4y ago

I wish them all the luck in the world, but trackballs are bad for repetitive stress of the thumb joints and shouldn't be used by long term computer workers.

NateEag 4y ago
I had terrible RSI from mouse usage. Switching to a thumb trackball resolved those issues.
- mbreese 4y ago
  I suspect it was the act of switching that was key, not the trackball itself. I had horrible pain a year or so ago due to working with the lovely designed Apple Magic Mouse for so long. Eventually, I learned that for me, I was better off switching between devices. So now I flip between a trackpad and two different mice. That’s what worked for me.
  - rambambram 4y ago
    I also did that in the past. After a while, I had to switch to another one for the RSI to go away. Eventually I was switching between a regular mouse, a Logitech with the thumb ball, a Logitech with the finger ball, and a Wacom trackpad with pencil. I also found out the remedy was more in the switching than in anything else. For years now I use the regular mouse without switching to others.
  - NateEag 4y ago
    I've been using thumb trackball consistently for 15 years now. I don't think switching devices is what did it. I did lower my pointing device usage overall at the same time, so that has a confounding effect.

freeqaz 4y ago

This appears to have been hugged to death. Anybody got a link for an archived version?

zwilliamson 4y ago

I enjoy the foul language “no cheap shit.” Not quiet the level of the pit viper sunglasses site but close!

dang 4y ago

Related: Ploopy: open hardware trackballs and mouse - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28285427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28285427 - Aug 2021 (134 comments)

samstave 4y ago

Ill never forget my first mouse. ~1988 or so... 386sx, 2400 baud modem, and a local friend who I played Populous with multi-player over modem. (aside from BBS games, I dont recall other games played via modem? He is now an EVP at blizzard) This mouse wasa gift to me from my stepmother as she was courting my dad and wanted my buy-in. and a way to 'flex' she left the pricetag on the mouse. $69.99 1988. That price made sense given the novelty of the mouse. $200 FN dollars for a trackball? 2022. I love it, but will never buy one.

samstave 4y ago
https://i.imgur.com/LhAsB8Y.png https://i.imgur.com/LhAsB8Y.png Inflation appears to both say 1988 prices are the same as today, and at the same time, refute that... Can anyone please let me know if I am reading this [wrong/WTF]

ChrisArchitect 4y ago

Is this trackball a new product release? Some previous discussion about Ploopy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28285427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28285427

karmakaze 4y ago

What advantages (or disadvantages) do you all trackball users have over using a mouse/trackpad? The only problems I've ever had with the mouse was stiff neck/shoulders (which I think was more to do with bad posture and desk/keyboard/mouse height) and shooting pains on the back of my mouse hand, possibly from clicking the buttons but the trackball has similar buttons. Would I appreciate any increases in speed/accuracy over a mouse or touchpad? If that were true pro-gamers should be using them. Being in one place means it can stay closer to the keyboard, so that's a plus--might be cool to have a laptop with a trackball under your palms on home row.

tbrownaw 4y ago
I don't need a big area for a mousepad. I don't have to care if I'm working someplace without a perfectly level surface for a mousepad. I can spin the ball quickly to move the cursor long distances (multiple 4k screens). . Trackpads are annoying because of the tiny distance they allow without multiple strokes. . I tried a tiny thumb trackball a couple times, but it sucked for both precision and speed. Like, bad enough that I couldn't fix it very well with the acceleration settings.

zevon 4y ago

I have RSI which led to an operation as well as a collection of different input devices. A few of them are trackballs (OTOH: Microsoft Trackball Explorer which the Ploopy is shaped after, Logitech Trackman Marble FX, Trackman Marble and MX Ergo but I've also tried others like the CST). I also have a few mouse variations and I've extensively used Trackpoints in the past. Variation certainly helps but what I keep coming back to are Apple's trackpads. The modern versions (the ones using force sensing instead of buttons) in combination with turning the sensitivity way up and enabling more mulitouch gestures are really, really good for me. I've yet to find another input device that requires less wrist movement and less force to use.

IYasha 4y ago

My love is overflowing when I see open hardware! Your project is awesome! Although I'm kind of worried about expensive solutions used in this project like curvy-shaped PCBs, and mad DPI sensors probably use amount of energy that is a bit higher than average which is a concern for laptop users. But this is a high-end product anyway. ) Also, seeing many HID enthusiasts in this thread, I'd really want to ask a question. Please forgive my selfishness ) All of my computer life I've been searching for ergonomic mouse that would have buttons clickable not by pressing down, but by pulling them towards the hand, like a trigger on a gun. By grabbing. I had a balled COM-port mouse once, shaped like a half sphere with 2 buttons and it was OUTSTANDING! It was ridiculously simple. Maybe it'll be reproducible with a 3D printer... Anyway, have anyone seen anything like this on the market? A wired grab-clickable mouse?