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36% of high earners are living paycheck to paycheck
- bobthepanda 4y agoI’m curious about the geographic distribution of this 36%. 100k in Tulsa looks a lot different than 100k in SF or NYC.
- TylerE 4y agoThe way the price of everything has gone up means that 100k in a cheap area isn’t all that different from 100k in SF, in, say, 2018
- usrn 4y agoI don't know why this was downvoted. There's a pretty solid floor for the cost of housing in the US and WFH has only solidified it. It doesn't really matter what you're willing to put up with, you can't really get bellow it. EDIT: For rent it's probably around $1.4k/month. Actually buying a house can fluctuate but if you're living paycheck to paycheck you're not saving up for a down payment. EDIT2: I don't know what you think you're buying with 100k anywhere.
- sbelskie 4y agoWhat is that floor? I’m pretty skeptical of that claim given how cheap houses are where I live (relative to the rest of the country).
- rufus_foreman 4y agoNo, that's insane. 100K in Tulsa really is different than 100K in SF.
- ketzu 4y agoPeople probably look at results like these [1,2] and think that there are states/counties where 100k nearly buys you a full house, while others have 5~10 times those costs. [1] https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/housing-costs-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/housing-cos... [2] https://www.nar.realtor/research-and-statistics/housing-statistics/county-median-home-prices-and-monthly-mortgage-payment https://www.nar.realtor/research-and-statistics/housing-stat...
- pm90 4y agoNot surprising considering housing costs. It would be interesting to see more granular data though; this sort of number is nice for vapid, sensational headlines that generate lots of clicks but don’t really further our understanding of anything.
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- testbjjl 4y ago… and private school. I have one kid, can’t imagine the folks with two and three.
- RhysU 4y agoMove to a town with good schools despite the property taxes. Property taxes do not scale with the number of children that one has. Cheaper by the, etc.
- HarryHirsch 4y agoFrom what I understand, housing in good school districts tends to be priced above-average. And then there's Oklahoma, not a high-wage state, where public school is so godawful that everyone who can half afford it sends their children to private school. When you have more than one you have a bigger problem. Schooling is part of the issue.
- RhysU 4y agoHome prices are higher, yes. But the higher prices are sticky, especially if local parents tend to get involved in their children's education. You can make up the cost when you sell the home after the kids are gone.
- HarryHirsch 4y agoLow mortgage when you don't need it, high mortgage when you cannot afford one. The country can't stop screwing over the younger generation, can't it?
- beckingz 4y ago34% of earners with income of 50k - 100k are living paycheck to paycheck, 36% of earners with incomes of 100k +. Seems unwise
- iratewizard 4y agoWhat I've seen from the valley people make this no surprise. Living in a place with an insane CoL so you can make an extra $20k/year. Working extra to not lose that meager amount of money because you're signed into a $3k/m studio apartment lease. Pissing away savings because you're burning out in style to deal with the extra stress.
- 88913527 4y agoWhat is meant by paycheck-to-paycheck? If a worker has HSA/401k/ESPP/401k MBR deductions, they have artificially made their paycheck small. The net amount remaining goes covers living expenses, and whatever is left might be swept into after-tax investments. Money in is money out. It is paycheck to paycheck: with a great deal of investing taking up the cashflow. If there is no technical definition, and you simply ask people if they live paycheck-to-paycheck, you could have quite different interpretations-- and the underlying financial health might differ demonstrably between survey respondents.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jldugger 4y ago> The net amount remaining goes covers living expenses, and whatever is left might be swept into after-tax investments. It me. Was literally thinking of taking on a margin loan to cover the time between when I pay quarterly estimated taxes and the next ESPP vest date.
- AYBABTME 4y agoWe do that at home - automatically wire a fixed amount, weekly, off of the margin account. All incomes get deposited in the margin account and invested. During the first half of the year, I max out most contributions that I can at work and end up with many 0$ take-home paychecks. The margin loans help us smooth out that period while keeping a steady, stable and frugal weekly "paycheck" to ourselves. As the year progresses, the margin loan gets paid back and then we grow our investments. I used to do this automated wire transfer twice a month, but switched it to weekly as it's harder to run out of money this way. And the amount we wire to ourselves is just enough to do groceries, pay bills, eat out every now and then, be happy, but not decadent.
- swatcoder 4y agoIt would be extremely odd for anyone making after-tax investments to say they live paycheck-to-paycheck. To most people, it means that you have little to no surplus after usual monthly expenses. That means no elective investment contributions and — more importantly — no contributions to liquid savings. Failure to maintain liquid savings can turn an unexpected event into a catastrophic tailspin. EDIT: That said, the other comments here are elucidating. I wonder if there is an unnoticed shift in the language used among young professionals and that this survey is accidentally measuring that instead of real financial change.
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- spydum 4y agoWhat the heck is Willis Tower Watson??
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- missedthecue 4y agoFairly well known company in the insurance and risk business. A cool 40,000 employees around the world. Result of a merger between the Willis and Tower Watson groups.
- ldoughty 4y agoMy family is relatively high earning, but that extra income has allowed us to access health care that is not relatively available in the US... IVF. This costs > $1200 / month, and has forced us to live paycheck to paycheck. Of course, we could choose to promote the ideocracy cycle, but we couldn't walk away from trying at least once
- foolfoolz 4y ago“forced”
- ldoughty 4y agosounds like you're either 100% not interested in having children, or are unaware of the impact of delaying the choice on having kids past 35
- kleinsch 4y agoHalf the commenters on this site are under 25. Every topic about parenting / children makes it pretty obvious.
- usrn 4y agoI think software development in general makes thinking about anything that isn't immediately pragmatic very difficult. HN tends to be pretty rough when it comes to Politics or the harder parts of Philosophy.
- nuclearnice1 4y agoOr he’s just a jerk on the Internet with nonspecific POV just reading your comment and trying to find a piece to sark about. Good luck with your IVF!
- bialpio 4y agoI'm going to play the devil's advocate here and put out an opinion that having children is a choice (hopefully), and so living paycheck-to-paycheck also seem to be a choice in this case. It may boil down to defining what choice means, in the extreme "choice is doing something that I don't need to survive" and then IVF meets the definition (but then almost everything else meets it as well...). Definitely not going to defend the way the original opinion was communicated though...
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y agoIn 2022, 100k is not as much as it used to be. It is still a decent chunk of change, but it is not exactly life changing; especially if you live in high cost of living area ( NY comes to mind ). Naturally, there are people who are broke regardless of how much they earn, but I personally think they are an anomaly.
- Infernal 4y agoI was in high school when "The Ladders" commercials came out in the US. It was a job board for high earners. I remember the tag line "100k jobs for 100k talent", this was in the early 2000's. It stuck with me because this was several multiples of the household income of anyone in my extended family, and I couldn't imagine ever making that much money or what those people's lives must be like. Then ~5 years ago I crossed the 100k barrier myself, though it didn't feel that momentous or impactful. Earlier this year I looked up the rate of inflation since those commercials, turns out that 100k when they were airing would be more like 160k now...
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y agoThank you for sharing this. This is exactly my point. The absolute number looks better and serves as an emotional barrier/achievement of sorts ( hell, I know I called my mom when it happened for me ), but in real terms ( as in, what that money can get you ), it is not as 'good' at getting goods as it once was.
- jlarocco 4y agoI'm playing the world's smallest violin over here. Anybody making that much money and still living "paycheck to paycheck" is doing so by choice, or misunderstood the question and what it means to live paycheck to paycheck.
- inlood 4y agoIm in the top 1% in my country (yep, third world), and living paycheck to paycheck. Its embarrassing with some 20years experience, but, that's how ot is at the moment.
- jlarocco 4y agoI wasn't trying to insult you. High earners in the article are Americans earning >$100k a year.
- AnimalMuppet 4y agoOr by just falling into it without really ever giving it a thought. That's not "by choice", exactly. (Though they do have the option of choosing not to do so, if they stopped to think about it...)
- mgkimsal 4y agoWe'd need to define 'paycheck to paycheck' more precisely, but... I'm aware of multiple families in my area that used to have something left over in each check, that went in to beefing up some savings. Fuel, food and rent increases over the last 6-12 months have meant there's nothing leftover any more, and they'll need to start cutting back in some areas more aggressively. They were a bit 'close to the edge' anyway (imo), but with a couple kids, it's not hard to do.
- MarkMarine 4y agoMy family is high earning, about 4-5x the threshold they are talking about, and our budget is tight enough that it feels like it's paycheck to paycheck. We max out the 401k and IRA and invest as well, but I don't see our savings growing. High rent, taking care of my parents, and home child care almost as high as rent are the big outlays, I know these are just choices we made, we're super lucky to be in this situation, but I kind of get it. Your life starts to take the shape of the container it's in, and when you raise the cost of everything 5% a month but the income doesn't change, it does weigh on things. Add this to the cost of homes where I live have almost doubled, from a small 1000sq foot home being priced around 1.3M now selling for over 2M and we feel like we're priced out of home ownership without doubling our salaries. I remember being abjectly poor, and while I don't worry about money for rent or food now, I never cared about retirement back then and just had to look at what is in front of me, make rent, buy ramen, etc. I know this isn't worse, but it sure feels similar.
- nradov 4y agoAren't you above the income limit for an IRA? https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-announces-changes-to-retirement-plans-for-2022 https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-announces-changes-to-retire...
- murderfs 4y agohttps://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Backdoor_Roth https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Backdoor_Roth
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- bejelentkezni 4y agoIf you are maxing retirement funds you are not living paycheck to paycheck.
- MarkMarine 4y agoI know. I’m not saying I am. I’m just saying it feels similar, because I remember making a thousand dollars a month and having to do odd jobs to cover rent and food. I have the same urge now. Look, I’m not looking for sympathy. I was honest about that. I’m just trying to add some color from my perspective to this article.
- dang 4y agoRecent and related: One-Third of Americans Making $250k Live Paycheck-to-Paycheck - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31581822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31581822 - June 2022 (305 comments)
- inlood 4y agoim the top 1% in my country (third world...) by income. working for an Israeli company. When i read those 6 figure numbers for similar positions i have (can do better probably, hire me!!!!), my eyes get glossy (and tear up a bit). 6 months of your paycheck would solve all my problems and allow me to work on my dream projects.
- cvccvroomvroom 4y agoPeople living above their means is an epidemic. Mostly, it's people trying to look rich, whatever that means, and having poor self-control (high MPC) and poor money management skills. Their income sheet maybe positive, but like most stockbrokers, they don't have a balance sheet to back it up.