3 ms·

I remember a video of a guy running an old version of Visual C++ on an equally old version of Windows, in a VM on modern hardware, to try Windows development "t

I remember a video of a guy running an old version of Visual C++ on an equally old version of Windows, in a VM on modern hardware, to try Windows development "the old way". It took about one frame to launch. One. Frame. By the way, Apple isn't much better. Xcode takes around 15 seconds to launch on an M1 Max. edit: probably this video https://youtu.be/j_4iTovYJtc?t=282 https://youtu.be/j_4iTovYJtc?t=282

MiddleEndian 4y ago
But imagine if Visual C++ was written entirely in Electron instead! Wouldn't THAT be sweet?
- grishka 4y ago
  Should be called Visual React then!
dylan604 4y ago
One. Frame. Of. What? I've never heard of someone describing how long something took like this without at least defining the frame rate.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  Any. Plausible. Framerate. Has. The. Same. Effect. For. This. Story.
- grishka 4y ago
  Of video. Which probably was 30 fps. I mean, the splash screen just blinked for a barely noticeable split second before the main window appeared. You double click the shortcut, and it's already done launching before you realize anything. That's how fast modern computers are. (actually, some things on the M1 are fast enough that I'm now getting annoyed at networking taking what feels like ages)
  - dylan604 4y ago
    Why would you assume video is at 30fps? Geographic location? People not in the US (and a handful of other countries) would assume video framerate of 25fps. Does the refresh rate of a computer monitor get referred to as frames? Usually, it's just the frequency like 120Hz type units. Sorry for the conversation break, but I've just never heard app start up times with a framerate reference. Was just an unusual enough thing that I let me brain wonder on it longer than necessary
    - grishka 4y ago
      Oh ffs. First off, I'm not from the US. I've been there for less than a month combined. Secondly, if you do want to nitpick, at least do some research first. The video in question is 60 or 30 fps depending on the quality setting. $ yt-dlp -F https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_4iTovYJtc [youtube] j_4iTovYJtc: Downloading webpage [youtube] j_4iTovYJtc: Downloading android player API JSON [youtube] j_4iTovYJtc: Downloading player df5197e2 [info] Available formats for j_4iTovYJtc: ID EXT RESOLUTION FPS │ FILESIZE TBR PROTO │ VCODEC VBR ACODEC ABR ASR MORE INFO ───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── sb2 mhtml 48x27 │ mhtml │ images storyboard sb1 mhtml 80x45 │ mhtml │ images storyboard sb0 mhtml 160x90 │ mhtml │ images storyboard 139 m4a audio only │ 46.85MiB 48k https │ audio only mp4a.40.5 48k 22050Hz low, m4a_dash 249 webm audio only │ 49.06MiB 51k https │ audio only opus 51k 48000Hz low, webm_dash 250 webm audio only │ 63.84MiB 66k https │ audio only opus 66k 48000Hz low, webm_dash 140 m4a audio only │ 124.33MiB 129k https │ audio only mp4a.40.2 129k 44100Hz medium, m4a_dash 251 webm audio only │ 125.02MiB 130k https │ audio only opus 130k 48000Hz medium, webm_dash 17 3gp 176x144 8 │ 56.70MiB 59k https │ mp4v.20.3 59k mp4a.40.2 0k 22050Hz 144p 160 mp4 256x144 30 │ 37.86MiB 39k https │ avc1.4d400c 39k video only 144p, mp4_dash 278 webm 256x144 30 │ 42.59MiB 44k https │ vp9 44k video only 144p, webm_dash 133 mp4 426x240 30 │ 84.31MiB 87k https │ avc1.4d4015 87k video only 240p, mp4_dash 242 webm 426x240 30 │ 70.03MiB 72k https │ vp9 72k video only 240p, webm_dash 134 mp4 640x360 30 │ 167.27MiB 174k https │ avc1.4d401e 174k video only 360p, mp4_dash 18 mp4 640x360 30 │ 352.24MiB 366k https │ avc1.42001E 366k mp4a.40.2 0k 44100Hz 360p 243 webm 640x360 30 │ 134.68MiB 140k https │ vp9 140k video only 360p, webm_dash 135 mp4 854x480 30 │ 294.98MiB 307k https │ avc1.4d401f 307k video only 480p, mp4_dash 244 webm 854x480 30 │ 233.37MiB 243k https │ vp9 243k video only 480p, webm_dash 136 mp4 1280x720 30 │ 653.31MiB 680k https │ avc1.4d401f 680k video only 720p, mp4_dash 22 mp4 1280x720 30 │ ~795.07MiB 808k https │ avc1.64001F 808k mp4a.40.2 0k 44100Hz 720p 247 webm 1280x720 30 │ 548.72MiB 571k https │ vp9 571k video only 720p, webm_dash 298 mp4 1280x720 60 │ 817.18MiB 850k https │ avc1.4d4020 850k video only 720p60, mp4_dash 302 webm 1280x720 60 │ 651.39MiB 678k https │ vp9 678k video only 720p60, webm_dash And the units? Hz and FPS are generally interchangeable but FPS is more often used as a measure of how fast something renders while Hz is more often used for monitor refresh rates (a holdover from CRTs I guess).
dmitriid 4y ago
It's at the end of Casey Muratori's Visual Studio rant: https://youtu.be/GC-0tCy4P1U https://youtu.be/GC-0tCy4P1U Not only Visual Studio s up instantly in an older version of Windows running in a VM. Debugger values update instantly there as well, something that Visual Studio can no longer do.
deergomoo 4y ago
> Xcode takes around 15 seconds to launch on an M1 Max Not really related to launch time but it’s hilarious how much faster Xcode is when working with Objective-C compared to Swift. I understand why, but it’s still jarring
perryizgr8 4y ago
> It took about one frame to launch. One. Frame. I really liked Win 2000 because of this feeling of speed. Most programs would simply "open" when you clicked their icon. There wouldn't be a loading screen. I remember getting frustrated because I could not look at the pretty spalsh screen that Excel had added because it would flash and disappear in milliseconds. Amd this was on hardware of that time.
- kcartlidge 4y ago
  > I really liked Win 2000 because of this feeling of speed Upvoted for bigging up my favourite (relatively speaking) Windows version. Still have my original disks.
Tomis02 4y ago
Just based on memory, Visual C++ 6 was written using the good old Win32 API, which is just plain C code. Without access to the source code, I can assume that the object-oriented craze and XML fad had not corrupted that codebase. Superb software. Visual C++ 7 was rewritten to use another SDK, likely based on .Net, and it was noticeably slower. The problem, as I see it, is people don't understand the cost of abstractions and intermediate layers, and add them gratuitously. This has been a trend ever since.

MiddleEndian 4y ago

But imagine if Visual C++ was written entirely in Electron instead! Wouldn't THAT be sweet?

grishka 4y ago
Should be called Visual React then!

dylan604 4y ago

One. Frame. Of. What? I've never heard of someone describing how long something took like this without at least defining the frame rate.

Dylan16807 4y ago
Any. Plausible. Framerate. Has. The. Same. Effect. For. This. Story.
grishka 4y ago
Of video. Which probably was 30 fps. I mean, the splash screen just blinked for a barely noticeable split second before the main window appeared. You double click the shortcut, and it's already done launching before you realize anything. That's how fast modern computers are. (actually, some things on the M1 are fast enough that I'm now getting annoyed at networking taking what feels like ages)
- dylan604 4y ago
  Why would you assume video is at 30fps? Geographic location? People not in the US (and a handful of other countries) would assume video framerate of 25fps. Does the refresh rate of a computer monitor get referred to as frames? Usually, it's just the frequency like 120Hz type units. Sorry for the conversation break, but I've just never heard app start up times with a framerate reference. Was just an unusual enough thing that I let me brain wonder on it longer than necessary
  - grishka 4y ago
    Oh ffs. First off, I'm not from the US. I've been there for less than a month combined. Secondly, if you do want to nitpick, at least do some research first. The video in question is 60 or 30 fps depending on the quality setting. $ yt-dlp -F https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_4iTovYJtc [youtube] j_4iTovYJtc: Downloading webpage [youtube] j_4iTovYJtc: Downloading android player API JSON [youtube] j_4iTovYJtc: Downloading player df5197e2 [info] Available formats for j_4iTovYJtc: ID EXT RESOLUTION FPS │ FILESIZE TBR PROTO │ VCODEC VBR ACODEC ABR ASR MORE INFO ───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── sb2 mhtml 48x27 │ mhtml │ images storyboard sb1 mhtml 80x45 │ mhtml │ images storyboard sb0 mhtml 160x90 │ mhtml │ images storyboard 139 m4a audio only │ 46.85MiB 48k https │ audio only mp4a.40.5 48k 22050Hz low, m4a_dash 249 webm audio only │ 49.06MiB 51k https │ audio only opus 51k 48000Hz low, webm_dash 250 webm audio only │ 63.84MiB 66k https │ audio only opus 66k 48000Hz low, webm_dash 140 m4a audio only │ 124.33MiB 129k https │ audio only mp4a.40.2 129k 44100Hz medium, m4a_dash 251 webm audio only │ 125.02MiB 130k https │ audio only opus 130k 48000Hz medium, webm_dash 17 3gp 176x144 8 │ 56.70MiB 59k https │ mp4v.20.3 59k mp4a.40.2 0k 22050Hz 144p 160 mp4 256x144 30 │ 37.86MiB 39k https │ avc1.4d400c 39k video only 144p, mp4_dash 278 webm 256x144 30 │ 42.59MiB 44k https │ vp9 44k video only 144p, webm_dash 133 mp4 426x240 30 │ 84.31MiB 87k https │ avc1.4d4015 87k video only 240p, mp4_dash 242 webm 426x240 30 │ 70.03MiB 72k https │ vp9 72k video only 240p, webm_dash 134 mp4 640x360 30 │ 167.27MiB 174k https │ avc1.4d401e 174k video only 360p, mp4_dash 18 mp4 640x360 30 │ 352.24MiB 366k https │ avc1.42001E 366k mp4a.40.2 0k 44100Hz 360p 243 webm 640x360 30 │ 134.68MiB 140k https │ vp9 140k video only 360p, webm_dash 135 mp4 854x480 30 │ 294.98MiB 307k https │ avc1.4d401f 307k video only 480p, mp4_dash 244 webm 854x480 30 │ 233.37MiB 243k https │ vp9 243k video only 480p, webm_dash 136 mp4 1280x720 30 │ 653.31MiB 680k https │ avc1.4d401f 680k video only 720p, mp4_dash 22 mp4 1280x720 30 │ ~795.07MiB 808k https │ avc1.64001F 808k mp4a.40.2 0k 44100Hz 720p 247 webm 1280x720 30 │ 548.72MiB 571k https │ vp9 571k video only 720p, webm_dash 298 mp4 1280x720 60 │ 817.18MiB 850k https │ avc1.4d4020 850k video only 720p60, mp4_dash 302 webm 1280x720 60 │ 651.39MiB 678k https │ vp9 678k video only 720p60, webm_dash And the units? Hz and FPS are generally interchangeable but FPS is more often used as a measure of how fast something renders while Hz is more often used for monitor refresh rates (a holdover from CRTs I guess).

dmitriid 4y ago

It's at the end of Casey Muratori's Visual Studio rant: https://youtu.be/GC-0tCy4P1U https://youtu.be/GC-0tCy4P1U Not only Visual Studio s up instantly in an older version of Windows running in a VM. Debugger values update instantly there as well, something that Visual Studio can no longer do.

deergomoo 4y ago

> Xcode takes around 15 seconds to launch on an M1 Max Not really related to launch time but it’s hilarious how much faster Xcode is when working with Objective-C compared to Swift. I understand why, but it’s still jarring

perryizgr8 4y ago

> It took about one frame to launch. One. Frame. I really liked Win 2000 because of this feeling of speed. Most programs would simply "open" when you clicked their icon. There wouldn't be a loading screen. I remember getting frustrated because I could not look at the pretty spalsh screen that Excel had added because it would flash and disappear in milliseconds. Amd this was on hardware of that time.

kcartlidge 4y ago
> I really liked Win 2000 because of this feeling of speed Upvoted for bigging up my favourite (relatively speaking) Windows version. Still have my original disks.

Tomis02 4y ago

Just based on memory, Visual C++ 6 was written using the good old Win32 API, which is just plain C code. Without access to the source code, I can assume that the object-oriented craze and XML fad had not corrupted that codebase. Superb software. Visual C++ 7 was rewritten to use another SDK, likely based on .Net, and it was noticeably slower. The problem, as I see it, is people don't understand the cost of abstractions and intermediate layers, and add them gratuitously. This has been a trend ever since.