8 ms·

Ambulance waits: 'Can you please tell them to hurry up or I shall be dead'

19 points by anon2020dot00 4y ago

EricE 4y ago
- rawTruthHurts 4y ago
  Rationing with privatised medicine, not just for ambulances but for pretty much everything else as well? Say it isn't so!
  - asplake 4y ago
    Commenting on a UK-based story, not the flagged comment that I can’t read: How is emergency medicine privatised in the UK? Underfunded yes, but privatised?
    - dTal 4y ago
      It's a sarcastic response to "Rationing with socialized medicine? Say it isn't so!" You should probably enable 'showdead' in your HN settings to avoid confusion, if you plan to participate in threads started by dead comments.
- potatochup 4y ago
  It's not like the free market is immune to supply shocks either. E.g. Overbooked planes. It's never efficient to aim for 100% availability.
  - mburee 4y ago
    You also don't have this problem if people just can't afford them and drive themselves. Seems a bit cheap to directly jump to "socialized healthcare bad"
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  The problem is most likely that the hospitals are being operated for-profit by companies, so they cut staff to increase their margins.
  - henryaj 4y ago
    Not in the UK.
    - fxtentacle 4y ago
      It's publicly funded, but the government still pays the money to private for-profit companies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7756069/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7756069/ "For-Profit Hospitals Have Thrived Because of Generous Public Reimbursement Schemes" In 2014, 11.1% of all UK hospitals were for-profit.
nradov 4y ago
The aging demographics of developed countries inevitably mean that economic growth will slow while healthcare demand increases. Thus regardless of whether the healthcare system is private or socialized, there will be more and more care rationing. In some cases that rationing will take the form of long queues.
odiroot 4y ago
When I lived in Germany, I used a local (private) practice for my immediate needs. This was covered by my statutory (yet still private) insurance from a Krankenkasse. I usually could get a next week appointment or wait in the queue 2-3h and see my doctor on the same day. You can go for commercial insurance (which they actually call private) and cut these times. Now, living in England and using the (fully public) NHS, I can't even get a GP appointment in the next 4 weeks. And the surgery mostly gives you only telephone appointment. And no, you cannot just walk in and wait to see a doctor. Appointments only. This is not even only my surgery's problem. The waiting time for specialist doctors are even more ridiculous.
- distances 4y ago
  Germany does also have clearly higher healthcare costs per capita, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea.... Though as far as I understand Germany also has an older population which explains part of it. But in any case the German system isn't exactly cheap.
  - odiroot 4y ago
    Then you can very much see it with your own eyes! Thanks for the link.
  - tester89 4y ago
    One thing to consider is that the NHS is a centralised and socialised system (barring the NHS internal market, which is in the process of abolition), whereas the German system has mandatory but private insurance which would involve more administrative costs, not to mention money spent on marketing and the like, so the costs are not directly comparable, and in general Germany probably spends more of the money on non-medical services.
- _benedict 4y ago
  The level of service you recall from Germany was common in the U.K. until a few years ago, or certainly ten years ago this was my experience in every practice area I lived. GP practices are all private in the U.K., the visits are only paid for by the NHS. Precisely why GP wait times have gotten so bad I can’t say, but the real-terms funding cuts the NHS has experienced over the past decade likely contribute. Of course, you can top up with private care in the U.K. also, and this seems to be becoming increasingly common.
DanBC 4y ago
It's fairly common to see people on HN say that the NHS can't be on the brink of collapse because we've been saying it for year. EG, one example from 20 days ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31531180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31531180 What they don't realise that that people started saying "Don't make those changes, it's too risky", "ok, you made those changes and we're starting to see the results, and it's not great", "change is accelerating and danger lies ahead", "we've already seen massive increase in risk and now we're starting to see increases in harms in these sentinel groups", "we're starting to see harms, including significant harm, in all groups", etc. We've known for years that English ambos are in real trouble.
everfrustrated 4y ago
Everything about the NHS is a joke. Unfortunately it's become like a religion to the British and so it's impossible to constructively criticize and as a consequence it is unlikely to ever improve. Trying to see a GP is like having to queue in Soviet Russia to get bread.
- CommanderData 4y ago
  It's intentionally being let down as part of a wider strategy, here are Doctors and people close to the issue. https://youtu.be/897tkuD6g38 https://youtu.be/897tkuD6g38 "It is the design of the legislation and a culmination for US corporations to dominate the system".
  - namelessoracle 4y ago
    "X cannot fail, it can only be failed" always ends so well.

19 points by anon2020dot00 4y ago

rawTruthHurts 4y ago
Rationing with privatised medicine, not just for ambulances but for pretty much everything else as well? Say it isn't so!
- asplake 4y ago
  Commenting on a UK-based story, not the flagged comment that I can’t read: How is emergency medicine privatised in the UK? Underfunded yes, but privatised?
  - dTal 4y ago
    It's a sarcastic response to "Rationing with socialized medicine? Say it isn't so!" You should probably enable 'showdead' in your HN settings to avoid confusion, if you plan to participate in threads started by dead comments.
potatochup 4y ago
It's not like the free market is immune to supply shocks either. E.g. Overbooked planes. It's never efficient to aim for 100% availability.
- mburee 4y ago
  You also don't have this problem if people just can't afford them and drive themselves. Seems a bit cheap to directly jump to "socialized healthcare bad"
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
fxtentacle 4y ago
The problem is most likely that the hospitals are being operated for-profit by companies, so they cut staff to increase their margins.
- henryaj 4y ago
  Not in the UK.
  - fxtentacle 4y ago
    It's publicly funded, but the government still pays the money to private for-profit companies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7756069/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7756069/ "For-Profit Hospitals Have Thrived Because of Generous Public Reimbursement Schemes" In 2014, 11.1% of all UK hospitals were for-profit.

The aging demographics of developed countries inevitably mean that economic growth will slow while healthcare demand increases. Thus regardless of whether the healthcare system is private or socialized, there will be more and more care rationing. In some cases that rationing will take the form of long queues.

odiroot 4y ago

When I lived in Germany, I used a local (private) practice for my immediate needs. This was covered by my statutory (yet still private) insurance from a Krankenkasse. I usually could get a next week appointment or wait in the queue 2-3h and see my doctor on the same day. You can go for commercial insurance (which they actually call private) and cut these times. Now, living in England and using the (fully public) NHS, I can't even get a GP appointment in the next 4 weeks. And the surgery mostly gives you only telephone appointment. And no, you cannot just walk in and wait to see a doctor. Appointments only. This is not even only my surgery's problem. The waiting time for specialist doctors are even more ridiculous.

distances 4y ago
Germany does also have clearly higher healthcare costs per capita, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea.... Though as far as I understand Germany also has an older population which explains part of it. But in any case the German system isn't exactly cheap.
- odiroot 4y ago
  Then you can very much see it with your own eyes! Thanks for the link.
- tester89 4y ago
  One thing to consider is that the NHS is a centralised and socialised system (barring the NHS internal market, which is in the process of abolition), whereas the German system has mandatory but private insurance which would involve more administrative costs, not to mention money spent on marketing and the like, so the costs are not directly comparable, and in general Germany probably spends more of the money on non-medical services.
_benedict 4y ago
The level of service you recall from Germany was common in the U.K. until a few years ago, or certainly ten years ago this was my experience in every practice area I lived. GP practices are all private in the U.K., the visits are only paid for by the NHS. Precisely why GP wait times have gotten so bad I can’t say, but the real-terms funding cuts the NHS has experienced over the past decade likely contribute. Of course, you can top up with private care in the U.K. also, and this seems to be becoming increasingly common.

DanBC 4y ago

It's fairly common to see people on HN say that the NHS can't be on the brink of collapse because we've been saying it for year. EG, one example from 20 days ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31531180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31531180 What they don't realise that that people started saying "Don't make those changes, it's too risky", "ok, you made those changes and we're starting to see the results, and it's not great", "change is accelerating and danger lies ahead", "we've already seen massive increase in risk and now we're starting to see increases in harms in these sentinel groups", "we're starting to see harms, including significant harm, in all groups", etc. We've known for years that English ambos are in real trouble.

everfrustrated 4y ago

Everything about the NHS is a joke. Unfortunately it's become like a religion to the British and so it's impossible to constructively criticize and as a consequence it is unlikely to ever improve. Trying to see a GP is like having to queue in Soviet Russia to get bread.

CommanderData 4y ago
It's intentionally being let down as part of a wider strategy, here are Doctors and people close to the issue. https://youtu.be/897tkuD6g38 https://youtu.be/897tkuD6g38 "It is the design of the legislation and a culmination for US corporations to dominate the system".
- namelessoracle 4y ago
  "X cannot fail, it can only be failed" always ends so well.