6 ms·

I was a kid during both oil shocks of the 1970s. That has absolutely nothing to do with my driving. What does, and not just for driving, is the family taught

by beezle 4y ago

I was a kid during both oil shocks of the 1970s. That has absolutely nothing to do with my driving. What does, and not just for driving, is the family taught cultural value of 'don't be wasteful'. So unlike so many people today, I don't make 12 trips a day to stores/friends/whatever when I can just make one or two if I actually think 5 minutes ahead. That applies whether gas is $1 or $5 per gallon. I also try to make good use of what I own and not discard things that are functional simply to get the new shiny.

sbf501 4y ago
In the late 1970's Star Wars toys still worked if the batteries died! Can't say that about an iPad.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  I wonder which is more wasteful: A built-in rechargeable battery that lasts 500-1000 charge cycles but is difficult to replace, or a requirement of six AAA batteries that need replacement after every 3-4 hours of use.
  - tessierashpool 4y ago
    ok, but you're replying to a comment about toys that don't need their batteries replaced, because they still work without the batteries. a toy with optional batteries obviously requires less battery use than a thing which requires a battery. it's tautological.
    - babypuncher 4y ago
      I think it's a weird comparison to begin with because an iPad is a hell of a lot more versatile than a Darth Vader action figure.
  - aembleton 4y ago
    You can use rechargeable AAA batteries so its not so wasteful.
- potatosalad1 4y ago
  But an iPad can replace a hundred toys in terms of the amount of variety in entertainment. Just like it can replace thousands of CDs and books. If we're talking wastefulness I think it comes out ahead.
jackblemming 4y ago
How many years earlier does that let you retire?
- bornfreddy 4y ago
  Is that the only goal people are supposed to have in life?
  - ninjanomnom 4y ago
    Many people nowadays see retirement, especially early retirement, as a means towards whatever goal they have in life. You can focus on whatever you like without worrying about your financial stability.
    - bornfreddy 4y ago
      My point was that this isn't the only goal people have. Just not being willing to waste too much time in traffic (while waiting for retirement) could also be the reason one prefers scheduling their trips to the shops.
  - up_o 4y ago
    if you're a worker, then mostly yes. Ideally, self-fulfilling goals that require those extra 40-60 hours you're giving to a company then can be diverted. Not everyone can work at ChangeTheWorld corp for their day job.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Part of it is that, in general, there aren't great options to spend 10 or 20 hours/week--or, really, 700 or so hours a year doing interesting work for someone else on your schedule getting paid at full-time professional salary levels. You're not available when needed. You're not keeping current probably. Even if I could do some part-time consulting on what I currently work on, I'd become much less interesting to hire pretty quickly.
  - na85 4y ago
eric_cc 4y ago
> I don't make 12 trips a day to stores/friends/whatever when I can just make one or two Forget gas: This type behavior is a waste of time! The most precious resource of all.
- odensc 4y ago
  "Waste" is subjective. Some people may enjoy driving/running a bunch of errands (I find it fun sometimes when I have nothing else to do).
  - nickff 4y ago
    I read a few news stories that during lockdowns, many people would only buy a few groceries at a time, so that they could go out more, and spend time at the market.
    - formerkrogemp 4y ago
      I was working in a grocery store at the time. People did head out a lot for groceries due to boredom and low gas prices.
      - pchristensen 4y ago
        And no restaurants.
        formerkrogemp 4y ago
        Depends on your state. In the south many of them said that they had restrictions, but in reality did nothing.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  I do this all the time, but I walk everywhere so I just see the trips as extra exercise time.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago
I was a kid during the 80s when gas was (comparatively) cheap. But I got so sick of living out in the middle of nowhere and having to drive all the time (as a kid, with my parents), that I spend more on housing in urban areas where I can walk to multiple stores. Throwing things away is so difficult these days that I try to make purchases that avoid it. But like...we still have my 5 year olds car seat in our garage because no place will take them (I have to make a trip to the dump, or get a junk hauler to come by with a big load for them and a few hundred bucks).
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > I was a kid during the 80s when gas was (comparatively) cheap. The 1980s are funny, because, the early 1980s were one of the periods of highest sustained gas prices in history, while the late 1980s and 1990s are the lowest ever.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    Ya, I should mention that I came of age in the late 18s, and started driving at 15 in 1990.
- cgriswald 4y ago
  > we still have my 5 year olds car seat in our garage because no place will take them (I have to make a trip to the dump, or get a junk hauler to come by with a big load for them and a few hundred bucks). Our garbage system allows us two "bulky item" pickups per year with our regular garbage if we call in advance where they'll take anything in a 3x3x6 volume. For everything else, I just destroy it with old power tools.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    Our's doesn't, and there doesn't seem to be a clearly defined bulk item charge for car seats since, before COVID, they could be recycled in our area.
darkerside 4y ago
Don't you think your family cultural value may have been amplified by the economic environment?
demadog 4y ago
I was a kid in the 90s and I still try to do as little trips as possible.
PheonixPharts 4y ago
> I don't make 12 trips a day to stores/friends/whatever when I can just make one or two This seems like a bit of a straw man. I live in a pretty suburban area and drive my car probably 2-3 time a week. I've rarely seen my neighbors, even the ones with a bunch of kids drive more than 2 or 3 times a day. If you've known people that "make 12 trips a day" they might be a very rare anomaly, I don't think this is normal behavior from what I observe.
dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
I do the same behaviours but mostly not to waste time. It feels to me like you're arguing against your own point though. You state that your personal experiences confirm the hypothesis (you grew up during economic shocks, you are not wasteful), but that somehow doesn't confirm the hypothesis? How one feels about one's own values says little about why those values are the way they are. We all feel our values are right, otherwise why would we believe in them?
evandijk70 4y ago
As someone who probably falls partly under your definition of 'wasteful': I don't like planning, and I forget things. So I sometimes leave the light on when I leave the house, forget something when I have to do groceries at the store so I have to go back, if I have half a meal left, I throw it out rather than freezing it, etcetera. I've learned that, for me, accepting that gives me more peace of mind than trying to plan every part of my life. It also wastes less time than being super organised with my groceries, and I also end up throwing out less if I just shop for a single meal at the time. Still, my spending is not that high, and my ecological footprint is not big. I switch electricity companies each year, taking advantage of their sign-up bonus. I make sure to double check that I've turned of the heating when I leave the house. I only have LED-lights in my house. I invested in solar panels, which will take a long time to earn back. I bought a house that is 20% cheaper than what I could afford. When buying the house, important factors were that it was well isolated, and that my commute is short, cheap and fast (20 minutes by bus). I compromised on its garden and square footage. I buy a phone that's 300 euro rather than 700 euro and use it until it breaks. To me, 'don't be wasteful' is best applied selectively, both ecologically and economically. I approach it like an optimization problem: Identify the bottlenecks and attack those.
- krageon 4y ago
  Nobody is born enjoying planning things, it's something you like better as you do it more. Of course, you can accept the fact that you are not born enjoying it and then just not do it but that doesn't seem like a decision to be celebrated, to me. Edit: Because it is essentially celebrating the fact that you are at least in part measurably dysfunctional. It's part of the zeitgeist, but there is such a thing as taking it too far.
  - palmetieri2000 4y ago
    I really like planning, its the doing that I find much more difficult.
  - evandijk70 4y ago
    Accepting is different than celebrating. I disagree that it's part of the zeitgeist. The zeitgeist is that you and your life have to be perfect, because that is the image you get from everyone on social media.
FranzFerdiNaN 4y ago
> I was a kid during both oil shocks of the 1970s. That has absolutely nothing to do with my driving. What does, and not just for driving, is the family taught cultural value of 'don't be wasteful'. This is most likely caused by those oil shocks.
- saltcured 4y ago
  For me the 1970s were drought and a lifelong awareness of water conservation. Edit to add: buckets to collect water from "warming up the shower" and using them to flush toilets must be one of my earliest complete memories of a complex process. If anything, our family culture of thrift came from parents who were small children during WWII rationing and grandparents who were children in the Great Depression. I sometimes can even imagine there is an epigenetic factor here, leading to more obsessive (compulsive?) planning, optimizing, and risk management behaviors...
master_crab 4y ago
This read like “get off my lawn you damn kids!” Also, I don’t think people would want to waste all that time making 12 trips a day whether they care about the price of gas or not. Source: kid from the 80’s.

by beezle 4y ago

sbf501 4y ago

In the late 1970's Star Wars toys still worked if the batteries died! Can't say that about an iPad.

babypuncher 4y ago
I wonder which is more wasteful: A built-in rechargeable battery that lasts 500-1000 charge cycles but is difficult to replace, or a requirement of six AAA batteries that need replacement after every 3-4 hours of use.
- tessierashpool 4y ago
  ok, but you're replying to a comment about toys that don't need their batteries replaced, because they still work without the batteries. a toy with optional batteries obviously requires less battery use than a thing which requires a battery. it's tautological.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    I think it's a weird comparison to begin with because an iPad is a hell of a lot more versatile than a Darth Vader action figure.
- aembleton 4y ago
  You can use rechargeable AAA batteries so its not so wasteful.
potatosalad1 4y ago
But an iPad can replace a hundred toys in terms of the amount of variety in entertainment. Just like it can replace thousands of CDs and books. If we're talking wastefulness I think it comes out ahead.

jackblemming 4y ago

How many years earlier does that let you retire?

bornfreddy 4y ago
Is that the only goal people are supposed to have in life?
- ninjanomnom 4y ago
  Many people nowadays see retirement, especially early retirement, as a means towards whatever goal they have in life. You can focus on whatever you like without worrying about your financial stability.
  - bornfreddy 4y ago
    My point was that this isn't the only goal people have. Just not being willing to waste too much time in traffic (while waiting for retirement) could also be the reason one prefers scheduling their trips to the shops.
- up_o 4y ago
  if you're a worker, then mostly yes. Ideally, self-fulfilling goals that require those extra 40-60 hours you're giving to a company then can be diverted. Not everyone can work at ChangeTheWorld corp for their day job.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Part of it is that, in general, there aren't great options to spend 10 or 20 hours/week--or, really, 700 or so hours a year doing interesting work for someone else on your schedule getting paid at full-time professional salary levels. You're not available when needed. You're not keeping current probably. Even if I could do some part-time consulting on what I currently work on, I'd become much less interesting to hire pretty quickly.
- na85 4y ago

eric_cc 4y ago

> I don't make 12 trips a day to stores/friends/whatever when I can just make one or two Forget gas: This type behavior is a waste of time! The most precious resource of all.

odensc 4y ago
"Waste" is subjective. Some people may enjoy driving/running a bunch of errands (I find it fun sometimes when I have nothing else to do).
- nickff 4y ago
  I read a few news stories that during lockdowns, many people would only buy a few groceries at a time, so that they could go out more, and spend time at the market.
  - formerkrogemp 4y ago
    I was working in a grocery store at the time. People did head out a lot for groceries due to boredom and low gas prices.
    - pchristensen 4y ago
      And no restaurants.
      - formerkrogemp 4y ago
        Depends on your state. In the south many of them said that they had restrictions, but in reality did nothing.
Gigachad 4y ago
I do this all the time, but I walk everywhere so I just see the trips as extra exercise time.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

I was a kid during the 80s when gas was (comparatively) cheap. But I got so sick of living out in the middle of nowhere and having to drive all the time (as a kid, with my parents), that I spend more on housing in urban areas where I can walk to multiple stores. Throwing things away is so difficult these days that I try to make purchases that avoid it. But like...we still have my 5 year olds car seat in our garage because no place will take them (I have to make a trip to the dump, or get a junk hauler to come by with a big load for them and a few hundred bucks).

dragonwriter 4y ago
> I was a kid during the 80s when gas was (comparatively) cheap. The 1980s are funny, because, the early 1980s were one of the periods of highest sustained gas prices in history, while the late 1980s and 1990s are the lowest ever.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  Ya, I should mention that I came of age in the late 18s, and started driving at 15 in 1990.
cgriswald 4y ago
> we still have my 5 year olds car seat in our garage because no place will take them (I have to make a trip to the dump, or get a junk hauler to come by with a big load for them and a few hundred bucks). Our garbage system allows us two "bulky item" pickups per year with our regular garbage if we call in advance where they'll take anything in a 3x3x6 volume. For everything else, I just destroy it with old power tools.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  Our's doesn't, and there doesn't seem to be a clearly defined bulk item charge for car seats since, before COVID, they could be recycled in our area.

darkerside 4y ago

Don't you think your family cultural value may have been amplified by the economic environment?

demadog 4y ago

I was a kid in the 90s and I still try to do as little trips as possible.

PheonixPharts 4y ago

> I don't make 12 trips a day to stores/friends/whatever when I can just make one or two This seems like a bit of a straw man. I live in a pretty suburban area and drive my car probably 2-3 time a week. I've rarely seen my neighbors, even the ones with a bunch of kids drive more than 2 or 3 times a day. If you've known people that "make 12 trips a day" they might be a very rare anomaly, I don't think this is normal behavior from what I observe.

dj_mc_merlin 4y ago

I do the same behaviours but mostly not to waste time. It feels to me like you're arguing against your own point though. You state that your personal experiences confirm the hypothesis (you grew up during economic shocks, you are not wasteful), but that somehow doesn't confirm the hypothesis? How one feels about one's own values says little about why those values are the way they are. We all feel our values are right, otherwise why would we believe in them?

evandijk70 4y ago

As someone who probably falls partly under your definition of 'wasteful': I don't like planning, and I forget things. So I sometimes leave the light on when I leave the house, forget something when I have to do groceries at the store so I have to go back, if I have half a meal left, I throw it out rather than freezing it, etcetera. I've learned that, for me, accepting that gives me more peace of mind than trying to plan every part of my life. It also wastes less time than being super organised with my groceries, and I also end up throwing out less if I just shop for a single meal at the time. Still, my spending is not that high, and my ecological footprint is not big. I switch electricity companies each year, taking advantage of their sign-up bonus. I make sure to double check that I've turned of the heating when I leave the house. I only have LED-lights in my house. I invested in solar panels, which will take a long time to earn back. I bought a house that is 20% cheaper than what I could afford. When buying the house, important factors were that it was well isolated, and that my commute is short, cheap and fast (20 minutes by bus). I compromised on its garden and square footage. I buy a phone that's 300 euro rather than 700 euro and use it until it breaks. To me, 'don't be wasteful' is best applied selectively, both ecologically and economically. I approach it like an optimization problem: Identify the bottlenecks and attack those.

krageon 4y ago
Nobody is born enjoying planning things, it's something you like better as you do it more. Of course, you can accept the fact that you are not born enjoying it and then just not do it but that doesn't seem like a decision to be celebrated, to me. Edit: Because it is essentially celebrating the fact that you are at least in part measurably dysfunctional. It's part of the zeitgeist, but there is such a thing as taking it too far.
- palmetieri2000 4y ago
  I really like planning, its the doing that I find much more difficult.
- evandijk70 4y ago
  Accepting is different than celebrating. I disagree that it's part of the zeitgeist. The zeitgeist is that you and your life have to be perfect, because that is the image you get from everyone on social media.

FranzFerdiNaN 4y ago

> I was a kid during both oil shocks of the 1970s. That has absolutely nothing to do with my driving. What does, and not just for driving, is the family taught cultural value of 'don't be wasteful'. This is most likely caused by those oil shocks.

saltcured 4y ago
For me the 1970s were drought and a lifelong awareness of water conservation. Edit to add: buckets to collect water from "warming up the shower" and using them to flush toilets must be one of my earliest complete memories of a complex process. If anything, our family culture of thrift came from parents who were small children during WWII rationing and grandparents who were children in the Great Depression. I sometimes can even imagine there is an epigenetic factor here, leading to more obsessive (compulsive?) planning, optimizing, and risk management behaviors...

master_crab 4y ago

This read like “get off my lawn you damn kids!” Also, I don’t think people would want to waste all that time making 12 trips a day whether they care about the price of gas or not. Source: kid from the 80’s.