11 ms·

Official IE11 end-of-life in 2 days

118 points by frob 4y ago

dane-pgp 4y ago
As the linked FAQ states: "For supported operating systems, Internet Explorer 11 will continue receiving security updates and technical support for the lifecycle of the Windows version on which it is installed." and sadly IE11 came bundled with even Windows Server 2022, so if you're creating a website for users who spend all their time administrating Windows servers, you still have to support IE11...
- mario_kart_snes 4y ago
  Hilarious technicality. Nice.
- rsstack 4y ago
  But they would also have Edge installed in Windows Server 2022. It's a very small population that has a trivial workaround: use the _default_ default browser that came with the server operating system.
  - dane-pgp 4y ago
    Well, yes, "Just use a different browser" has always been a workaround that web developers can suggest to their users, but let me point out a more substantive problem with that recommendation: Microsoft Edge was not included with Windows Embedded 8.1 Industry (although it was later made available for it), and that operating system is still within "extended support" until July 2023. You're right, though, that basically anyone on any supported Windows operating system has an option available to them which probably takes less effort than that required for someone to add and maintain IE11 support to their website.
    - rsstack 4y ago
      > Microsoft Edge was not included with Windows Embedded 8.1 Industry (although it was later made available for it), and that operating system is still within "extended support" until July 2023. Do people browse generally available websites from cash registers? I'd assume they only browse internal portals.
    - zinekeller 4y ago
      Microsoft has broken its maintenance-only policy (and in Windows 7's case its EOL policy) by pushing an update that installs Microsoft Edge and WebView2 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5001027-update-for-the-new-microsoft-edge-for-windows-7-sp1-and-windows-8-1-march-16-2021-d43148cf-39b4-449e-9903-c4bc1499cf0a https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5001027-update-f...)
  - MBCook 4y ago
    Except that new browser won’t support Active-X or Java applets. Yes those still exist. Yes they are needed. Yes I have to support them. Pity me.
    - rsstack 4y ago
      There's a difference between "our website uses ActiveX which is unique to IE11, so we need to support IE11" and "our website is HTML/CSS/JS, and we need to support IE11". I do pity you, but I no longer have to pity other people :)
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      > Except that new browser won’t support Active-X or Java applets. That's mostly just used for specialized websites/webapps I think (often internal)? You can still launch IE for that, and use Edge, Chrome, Firefox, or any other browser for regular browsing. It's not substantially different from using Electron for desktop apps when you think about it. Many years ago I worked for a company that used an internal ActiveX-based application (which worked fairly well for us) and this is pretty much what everyone was doing. The biggest hurdle is probably corporate policies and such that prevent installing any alternative to IE yourself and IT dept. doesn't want to provide you with one either, but at this point I think that's just $BigCorp's problem and I don't care any more. For the record: I take web compat fairly serious and made things compatible with IE11 up to last year, but there's a limit.
      - MBCook 4y ago
        Oh it’s definitely specialized stuff using Java. Like one feature of the specialized B2B thing I work on. The process to replace that feature is not done. So here I am.
    - saratogacx 4y ago
      Edge has an IE mode which is essentially hosting a trident control in an edge host so you can still stop using iexplore.exe and use this as your exception case. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/edge-ie-mode https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/edge-ie-mode We've tested this at my company that hasn't finished getting rid of java applets and it is taking place of IE until we're done with migrating away from them.
- zinekeller 4y ago
  Not really. This is the nuance that some people miss: you could only use the IE11 engine inside Edge when an administrator explicitly enabled your website to be there. This has two consequences: a) All ActiveX extensions are dead. This is problematic if the reason why IE is still being used is because it required an ActiveX content to work (so you couldn't just flip the switch to IE11 compat mode in Edge, you need to rewrite it since three years ago) b) if you're developing a public-facing website, you can stop worrying IE11, but if you're developing enterprise software you're still in hell for around seven years (give or take if Microsoft offers an ESU à la Windows 7).
- babypuncher 4y ago
  That is a stretch; Windows Server 2022 includes Edge. And any Server 2022 user who goes out of their way to make IE11 the default should probably be fired.
  - ratww 4y ago
    Yep. We have a Window Server 2022 VM for testing sites in IE11 (we're in a Microsoft partnership thing so we need IE11 support) and after some recent updates it's been a pain in the ass to use IE even on purpose. Happy to not need it anymore.
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  Do people browse the internet on their servers? What exactly is the use case?
  - technion 4y ago
    Most common thing is Citrix/rds server environments. Plenty of orgs have all staff working on serversvas desktops. I was watching a doctor yesterday use a patient admin portal in IE.
tims33 4y ago
Great news! What is the next big piece of software that needs to be retired to make the Internet a better place?
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  Safari?[0] It's especially a problem when Apple don't allow other browser engines on its devices, although governments are looking into that.[1] [0] https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/22/safari_risks_becoming_the_new_ie/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/22/safari_risks_becoming... [1] https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/10/uk-antitrust-agency-will-investigate-apple-google-over-gaming-and-mobile-browsers https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/10/uk-antitrust-agen...
  - ash_gti 4y ago
    I dunno, then there would only be 2 actively maintained browser engines, Chrome and Firefox. Webkit is doing pretty good on https://wpt.fyi/interop-2022 https://wpt.fyi/interop-2022 so I'm not sure why Safari should be retired.
    - presentation 4y ago
      Most of my Safari compat issues are on older iOS devices that don't get Safari upgrades, for better or worse those devices do last a long time and a lot of people resist upgrading Mac software.
    - exyi 4y ago
      At least it definitely shouldn't be the only available browser. So we could say that the Safari monopoly should be gone
    - 0x0 4y ago
      The problem is a mountain of older ipads and iphones and ipods that aren't eligible for the latest major ios upgrades, and thus get stuck with an outdated safari/wkwebview/webkit implementation. This is only going to get worse as the EOL'd ipads these days are quite powerful and usable otherwise. And due to Apple policies banning bring-your-own-html-engine, firefox or chrome can't save them either :(
marcodiego 4y ago
Let's remember the last efforts to reinvigorate IE: https://www.youtube.com/user/internetexplorer https://www.youtube.com/user/internetexplorer
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
I was working a defense project last year where the whole UI is a java applet that requires IE. I wonder if they're still charging ahead with the implementation.
- carey 4y ago
  If it’s just for Java that’s not really a problem. They might be able to run the applet directly with appletviewer, or repackage it for Java Web Start. Otherwise, CheerpJ has a solution for continuing to run the applet in the browser by converting it to WASM.
  - anotherevan 4y ago
    Just to note that Java Web Start is also discontinued. Karakun are on it though: https://openwebstart.com/ https://openwebstart.com/
lostgame 4y ago
Goodbye to a plague on the web coding world. We only wish you could’ve died sooner.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  No worries, now we have works best in Chrome, or Safari won't implement it, instead.
breunigs 4y ago
On a related note, you can email Microsoft to add your domain to the "needs Edge" list: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/web-platform/ie-to-microsoft-edge-redirection https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/web-platform... If you try to open a host from that list in IE11, it will open in Edge instead. The process really is just sending them an email, so I did it for my personal site which still received occasional IE11 traffic from "yesteryear's megacorp" IP ranges. I don't have enough IE11 traffic to judge if it worked for these poor users, though it does on my Windows PC. Given my effort was literally sending a single email and wait a month, I am happy even if it helps only a few people.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  I prefer to let IE11 users just sit there wondering why the webpage is not working.
  - dane-pgp 4y ago
    Don't you think that's a bit cruel, babypuncher?
- OJFord 4y ago
  Funny process for it! I wonder why not just a TXT record? No list to maintain for them, no email admin, quicker (from desire to in-effect), etc.
  - zinekeller 4y ago
    > I wonder why not just a TXT record? Something similar to robots.txt? Yeah, I'm not sure why MS didn't allow that one. Actual DNS TXT records? Oh boy, you haven't experience enterprise-level DNS filtering (or let's be honest stupidity).
    - OJFord 4y ago
      I did mean the latter, but true /.well-known/ms-needs-edge or something would be better too. > Oh boy, you haven't experience enterprise-level DNS filtering (or let's be honest stupidity). Seems not!
jbverschoor 4y ago
Support.. so if I have a problem I can call someone about it, and get a proper solution?
- thallosaurus 4y ago
  If you need support for Internet Explorer then I got the best solution for your problem: Use a good browser.
butz 4y ago
Goodbye IE11, your unique -ms-grid layout, problematic flexbox implementation and select styling won't be missed.
iggldiggl 4y ago
Out of IE, Firefox and Chrome (and presumably also Safari, given its shared history with Chrome, but I can't test it), curiously enough IE(11) was the only one [1] to allow properly selecting and copying generated content, i.e. text added via the CSS "quotes:" or "content:" properties. Firefox/Gecko at least does a workaround for handling quotation marks (though it is rather hacky, because it always copies them as a standard ASCII double quotation mark instead of whatever typographically more appropriate character the page might actually be using, and it always adds both opening and closing quotation marks even if the selection only straddles one of them), but gives up for free-form text added via "content:", and Blink and presumably also Webkit don't handle that kind of content at all. [1] I've already forgotten how the old Edge based on EdgeHTML handled that scenario.

118 points by frob 4y ago

As the linked FAQ states: "For supported operating systems, Internet Explorer 11 will continue receiving security updates and technical support for the lifecycle of the Windows version on which it is installed." and sadly IE11 came bundled with even Windows Server 2022, so if you're creating a website for users who spend all their time administrating Windows servers, you still have to support IE11...

mario_kart_snes 4y ago
Hilarious technicality. Nice.
rsstack 4y ago
But they would also have Edge installed in Windows Server 2022. It's a very small population that has a trivial workaround: use the _default_ default browser that came with the server operating system.
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  Well, yes, "Just use a different browser" has always been a workaround that web developers can suggest to their users, but let me point out a more substantive problem with that recommendation: Microsoft Edge was not included with Windows Embedded 8.1 Industry (although it was later made available for it), and that operating system is still within "extended support" until July 2023. You're right, though, that basically anyone on any supported Windows operating system has an option available to them which probably takes less effort than that required for someone to add and maintain IE11 support to their website.
  - rsstack 4y ago
    > Microsoft Edge was not included with Windows Embedded 8.1 Industry (although it was later made available for it), and that operating system is still within "extended support" until July 2023. Do people browse generally available websites from cash registers? I'd assume they only browse internal portals.
  - zinekeller 4y ago
    Microsoft has broken its maintenance-only policy (and in Windows 7's case its EOL policy) by pushing an update that installs Microsoft Edge and WebView2 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5001027-update-for-the-new-microsoft-edge-for-windows-7-sp1-and-windows-8-1-march-16-2021-d43148cf-39b4-449e-9903-c4bc1499cf0a https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5001027-update-f...)
- MBCook 4y ago
  Except that new browser won’t support Active-X or Java applets. Yes those still exist. Yes they are needed. Yes I have to support them. Pity me.
  - rsstack 4y ago
    There's a difference between "our website uses ActiveX which is unique to IE11, so we need to support IE11" and "our website is HTML/CSS/JS, and we need to support IE11". I do pity you, but I no longer have to pity other people :)
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    > Except that new browser won’t support Active-X or Java applets. That's mostly just used for specialized websites/webapps I think (often internal)? You can still launch IE for that, and use Edge, Chrome, Firefox, or any other browser for regular browsing. It's not substantially different from using Electron for desktop apps when you think about it. Many years ago I worked for a company that used an internal ActiveX-based application (which worked fairly well for us) and this is pretty much what everyone was doing. The biggest hurdle is probably corporate policies and such that prevent installing any alternative to IE yourself and IT dept. doesn't want to provide you with one either, but at this point I think that's just $BigCorp's problem and I don't care any more. For the record: I take web compat fairly serious and made things compatible with IE11 up to last year, but there's a limit.
    - MBCook 4y ago
      Oh it’s definitely specialized stuff using Java. Like one feature of the specialized B2B thing I work on. The process to replace that feature is not done. So here I am.
  - saratogacx 4y ago
    Edge has an IE mode which is essentially hosting a trident control in an edge host so you can still stop using iexplore.exe and use this as your exception case. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/edge-ie-mode https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/edge-ie-mode We've tested this at my company that hasn't finished getting rid of java applets and it is taking place of IE until we're done with migrating away from them.
zinekeller 4y ago
Not really. This is the nuance that some people miss: you could only use the IE11 engine inside Edge when an administrator explicitly enabled your website to be there. This has two consequences: a) All ActiveX extensions are dead. This is problematic if the reason why IE is still being used is because it required an ActiveX content to work (so you couldn't just flip the switch to IE11 compat mode in Edge, you need to rewrite it since three years ago) b) if you're developing a public-facing website, you can stop worrying IE11, but if you're developing enterprise software you're still in hell for around seven years (give or take if Microsoft offers an ESU à la Windows 7).
babypuncher 4y ago
That is a stretch; Windows Server 2022 includes Edge. And any Server 2022 user who goes out of their way to make IE11 the default should probably be fired.
- ratww 4y ago
  Yep. We have a Window Server 2022 VM for testing sites in IE11 (we're in a Microsoft partnership thing so we need IE11 support) and after some recent updates it's been a pain in the ass to use IE even on purpose. Happy to not need it anymore.
_-david-_ 4y ago
Do people browse the internet on their servers? What exactly is the use case?
- technion 4y ago
  Most common thing is Citrix/rds server environments. Plenty of orgs have all staff working on serversvas desktops. I was watching a doctor yesterday use a patient admin portal in IE.

tims33 4y ago

Great news! What is the next big piece of software that needs to be retired to make the Internet a better place?

dane-pgp 4y ago
Safari?[0] It's especially a problem when Apple don't allow other browser engines on its devices, although governments are looking into that.[1] [0] https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/22/safari_risks_becoming_the_new_ie/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/22/safari_risks_becoming... [1] https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/10/uk-antitrust-agency-will-investigate-apple-google-over-gaming-and-mobile-browsers https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/10/uk-antitrust-agen...
- ash_gti 4y ago
  I dunno, then there would only be 2 actively maintained browser engines, Chrome and Firefox. Webkit is doing pretty good on https://wpt.fyi/interop-2022 https://wpt.fyi/interop-2022 so I'm not sure why Safari should be retired.
  - presentation 4y ago
    Most of my Safari compat issues are on older iOS devices that don't get Safari upgrades, for better or worse those devices do last a long time and a lot of people resist upgrading Mac software.
  - exyi 4y ago
    At least it definitely shouldn't be the only available browser. So we could say that the Safari monopoly should be gone
  - 0x0 4y ago
    The problem is a mountain of older ipads and iphones and ipods that aren't eligible for the latest major ios upgrades, and thus get stuck with an outdated safari/wkwebview/webkit implementation. This is only going to get worse as the EOL'd ipads these days are quite powerful and usable otherwise. And due to Apple policies banning bring-your-own-html-engine, firefox or chrome can't save them either :(

marcodiego 4y ago

Let's remember the last efforts to reinvigorate IE: https://www.youtube.com/user/internetexplorer https://www.youtube.com/user/internetexplorer

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

I was working a defense project last year where the whole UI is a java applet that requires IE. I wonder if they're still charging ahead with the implementation.

carey 4y ago
If it’s just for Java that’s not really a problem. They might be able to run the applet directly with appletviewer, or repackage it for Java Web Start. Otherwise, CheerpJ has a solution for continuing to run the applet in the browser by converting it to WASM.
- anotherevan 4y ago
  Just to note that Java Web Start is also discontinued. Karakun are on it though: https://openwebstart.com/ https://openwebstart.com/

lostgame 4y ago

Goodbye to a plague on the web coding world. We only wish you could’ve died sooner.

pjmlp 4y ago
No worries, now we have works best in Chrome, or Safari won't implement it, instead.

breunigs 4y ago

On a related note, you can email Microsoft to add your domain to the "needs Edge" list: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/web-platform/ie-to-microsoft-edge-redirection https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/web-platform... If you try to open a host from that list in IE11, it will open in Edge instead. The process really is just sending them an email, so I did it for my personal site which still received occasional IE11 traffic from "yesteryear's megacorp" IP ranges. I don't have enough IE11 traffic to judge if it worked for these poor users, though it does on my Windows PC. Given my effort was literally sending a single email and wait a month, I am happy even if it helps only a few people.

babypuncher 4y ago
I prefer to let IE11 users just sit there wondering why the webpage is not working.
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  Don't you think that's a bit cruel, babypuncher?
OJFord 4y ago
Funny process for it! I wonder why not just a TXT record? No list to maintain for them, no email admin, quicker (from desire to in-effect), etc.
- zinekeller 4y ago
  > I wonder why not just a TXT record? Something similar to robots.txt? Yeah, I'm not sure why MS didn't allow that one. Actual DNS TXT records? Oh boy, you haven't experience enterprise-level DNS filtering (or let's be honest stupidity).
  - OJFord 4y ago
    I did mean the latter, but true /.well-known/ms-needs-edge or something would be better too. > Oh boy, you haven't experience enterprise-level DNS filtering (or let's be honest stupidity). Seems not!

jbverschoor 4y ago

Support.. so if I have a problem I can call someone about it, and get a proper solution?

thallosaurus 4y ago
If you need support for Internet Explorer then I got the best solution for your problem: Use a good browser.

butz 4y ago

Goodbye IE11, your unique -ms-grid layout, problematic flexbox implementation and select styling won't be missed.

iggldiggl 4y ago

Out of IE, Firefox and Chrome (and presumably also Safari, given its shared history with Chrome, but I can't test it), curiously enough IE(11) was the only one [1] to allow properly selecting and copying generated content, i.e. text added via the CSS "quotes:" or "content:" properties. Firefox/Gecko at least does a workaround for handling quotation marks (though it is rather hacky, because it always copies them as a standard ASCII double quotation mark instead of whatever typographically more appropriate character the page might actually be using, and it always adds both opening and closing quotation marks even if the selection only straddles one of them), but gives up for free-form text added via "content:", and Blink and presumably also Webkit don't handle that kind of content at all. [1] I've already forgotten how the old Edge based on EdgeHTML handled that scenario.