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> Live off your savings while trying something new Warning about this, I've been doing this for the last five years, and it's made re-entering the job market d

> Live off your savings while trying something new Warning about this, I've been doing this for the last five years, and it's made re-entering the job market difficult. I've spent the time working on Open Source software and doing what I love, but it seems to raise a lot of red flags to potential employers. So document all of your crazy adventures so that you have something to point to. Or start your own thing along the way.

em-bee 4y ago
when i do that, i list "freelancer" as employment, and i mention all the projects that i have worked on during that time.
k__ 4y ago
After I did this, I didn't even want to reenter the job market.
- anonporridge 4y ago
  This is the real danger. Not that employers wouldn't want to hire you, but that you've tasted too much freedom and your brain will never put up with the bullshit that is modern corporate employment ever again.
- kilroy123 4y ago
  Too real, after 2 1/2 years. :-/
vaylian 4y ago
I really think that CVs (i.e. chronological listings of your career steps) should not be required for hiring. It is undignifying that we have to lay bare where life has taken us, just so that we can get a job. Instead, people should be allowed to list experiences that are relevant to the position. And then it is also fine to say, that one has worked for X years on something. But anything that is not related to the job should not be necessary to share.
- CuriousSkeptic 4y ago
  But you are allowed to do that! Having been on the receiving end of a lot of CVs I can’t say that I expect any particular structure. A CV is just like “technical specifications”. As long as it honesty tries to convey wether you are worth my time to evaluate for a particular role you can structure it anyway you like.
  - vaylian 4y ago
    > But you are allowed to do that! Things you are allowed to do +1 Thanks. Even though you are the first person who tells me this. Plenty of career workshops say the opposite.
    - cecilpl2 4y ago
      Whenever you think to yourself that you have to do things a certain way, it's good to remember that it's really all just a bunch of people on the other side. Hiring managers and recruiters are just people, looking for other people to give jobs to. However you convince them to do it is what works.
  - ajb 4y ago
    Yes, you are allowed to do that. You do occasionally run into someone who checks for gaps - someone asked me about a gap 20 years ago recently. Although I don't know if they actually cared or just had engineer's checking brain engaged. If they expect you to be that vanilla you may not want to work with them - remember the point of a CV, just like the rest of the process, is to maximise the chance of getting a placement you match, not just maximise the chance of getting to the next step. Causing people you wouldn't want to work with to filter you out is a plus.
    - osolo 4y ago
      I wouldn’t do that. Let me explain this from the perspective of a hiring manager. For a compelling position, it’s not unheard of to get 100 resumes per one spot (the ratio for my positions about 1:85). That’s a lot of resumes to go through. Often you’re hiring multiple people, so there are literally hundreds of resumes! You can’t possibly interview everyone who applied, so you have to filter. Sometimes it’s easy (eg you’re hiring a senior but the candidate has only 2 yrs experience) but that’s rare. You have to develop more filters, or you’ll drown. If I see a resume with a recent gap, it presents a question: What’s up? Why was this person not employed? There are many reasons, many not good. So I’ll pass, there are many other resumes without this problem. Doing your own thing doesn’t mean there needs to be a gap. Write what you did! Call it a Startup or Startup Explorations. Talk about the idea, the tech, the UX, the marketing, all of it. This will show that you’re a self starter, a problem solver. Leaving the years empty doesn’t show any of that. Let me leave you with this pragmatic thought: We can argue here if chronological resumes are good or bad, and what we should have instead. In the real world, that doesn’t matter because everybody else is submitting a resume, and you want yours to stand out for the better, not for worse.
lumost 4y ago
If you do this, its smart to create an LLC which you front your work with. Employers may not be bullish on hiring from small shops, but it should avoid red flags.
- Firmwarrior 4y ago
  I did this, it was a piece of cake. My city/state apparently hate businesses, so it ended up costing about $800 total, but I had an official tax ID and everything. I went back into the salaried workforce eventually, and the background check company just wanted some proof that my company existed, which I covered by showing them the business license or something (can't remember exactly what I did). Practically zero hassle. (I just told the truth in the interview that I wasn't proving to be a business genius, and I was worried I'd eventually fall behind on technical topics)
  - lumost 4y ago
    Perfect! Ooc do you keep the old business license around for side projects? I've thought of creating a corp for this purpose.
    - Firmwarrior 4y ago
      nah, it was way too expensive, it only makes sense to have when you're doing something that could theoretically earn money
ShamelessC 4y ago
For what it's worth, I did this for about a year with ML when the pandemic hit and was able to get a job paying double my old salary. Not always going to be the case, of course.
kilroy123 4y ago
Eh, I did this. I fucked off for 2 1/2 years to travel the world. All I "built" in all that time, was a silly art newsletter (https://randomdailyart.com/ https://randomdailyart.com/). It was fine, I went back to work over a year ago and made more money than I ever have before.
wahnfrieden 4y ago
Or do something that turns a profit on your own. Saas is a kind of magic when you can support yourself on recurring revenue and automation. You don’t need to make much to buy control of your own time back.

em-bee 4y ago

when i do that, i list "freelancer" as employment, and i mention all the projects that i have worked on during that time.

k__ 4y ago

After I did this, I didn't even want to reenter the job market.

anonporridge 4y ago
This is the real danger. Not that employers wouldn't want to hire you, but that you've tasted too much freedom and your brain will never put up with the bullshit that is modern corporate employment ever again.
kilroy123 4y ago
Too real, after 2 1/2 years. :-/

vaylian 4y ago

I really think that CVs (i.e. chronological listings of your career steps) should not be required for hiring. It is undignifying that we have to lay bare where life has taken us, just so that we can get a job. Instead, people should be allowed to list experiences that are relevant to the position. And then it is also fine to say, that one has worked for X years on something. But anything that is not related to the job should not be necessary to share.

CuriousSkeptic 4y ago
But you are allowed to do that! Having been on the receiving end of a lot of CVs I can’t say that I expect any particular structure. A CV is just like “technical specifications”. As long as it honesty tries to convey wether you are worth my time to evaluate for a particular role you can structure it anyway you like.
- vaylian 4y ago
  > But you are allowed to do that! Things you are allowed to do +1 Thanks. Even though you are the first person who tells me this. Plenty of career workshops say the opposite.
  - cecilpl2 4y ago
    Whenever you think to yourself that you have to do things a certain way, it's good to remember that it's really all just a bunch of people on the other side. Hiring managers and recruiters are just people, looking for other people to give jobs to. However you convince them to do it is what works.
- ajb 4y ago
  Yes, you are allowed to do that. You do occasionally run into someone who checks for gaps - someone asked me about a gap 20 years ago recently. Although I don't know if they actually cared or just had engineer's checking brain engaged. If they expect you to be that vanilla you may not want to work with them - remember the point of a CV, just like the rest of the process, is to maximise the chance of getting a placement you match, not just maximise the chance of getting to the next step. Causing people you wouldn't want to work with to filter you out is a plus.
  - osolo 4y ago
    I wouldn’t do that. Let me explain this from the perspective of a hiring manager. For a compelling position, it’s not unheard of to get 100 resumes per one spot (the ratio for my positions about 1:85). That’s a lot of resumes to go through. Often you’re hiring multiple people, so there are literally hundreds of resumes! You can’t possibly interview everyone who applied, so you have to filter. Sometimes it’s easy (eg you’re hiring a senior but the candidate has only 2 yrs experience) but that’s rare. You have to develop more filters, or you’ll drown. If I see a resume with a recent gap, it presents a question: What’s up? Why was this person not employed? There are many reasons, many not good. So I’ll pass, there are many other resumes without this problem. Doing your own thing doesn’t mean there needs to be a gap. Write what you did! Call it a Startup or Startup Explorations. Talk about the idea, the tech, the UX, the marketing, all of it. This will show that you’re a self starter, a problem solver. Leaving the years empty doesn’t show any of that. Let me leave you with this pragmatic thought: We can argue here if chronological resumes are good or bad, and what we should have instead. In the real world, that doesn’t matter because everybody else is submitting a resume, and you want yours to stand out for the better, not for worse.

lumost 4y ago

If you do this, its smart to create an LLC which you front your work with. Employers may not be bullish on hiring from small shops, but it should avoid red flags.

Firmwarrior 4y ago
I did this, it was a piece of cake. My city/state apparently hate businesses, so it ended up costing about $800 total, but I had an official tax ID and everything. I went back into the salaried workforce eventually, and the background check company just wanted some proof that my company existed, which I covered by showing them the business license or something (can't remember exactly what I did). Practically zero hassle. (I just told the truth in the interview that I wasn't proving to be a business genius, and I was worried I'd eventually fall behind on technical topics)
- lumost 4y ago
  Perfect! Ooc do you keep the old business license around for side projects? I've thought of creating a corp for this purpose.
  - Firmwarrior 4y ago
    nah, it was way too expensive, it only makes sense to have when you're doing something that could theoretically earn money

ShamelessC 4y ago

For what it's worth, I did this for about a year with ML when the pandemic hit and was able to get a job paying double my old salary. Not always going to be the case, of course.

kilroy123 4y ago

Eh, I did this. I fucked off for 2 1/2 years to travel the world. All I "built" in all that time, was a silly art newsletter (https://randomdailyart.com/ https://randomdailyart.com/). It was fine, I went back to work over a year ago and made more money than I ever have before.

wahnfrieden 4y ago

Or do something that turns a profit on your own. Saas is a kind of magic when you can support yourself on recurring revenue and automation. You don’t need to make much to buy control of your own time back.