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On Android I can install Firefox, Edge, other versions of these browsers from f-droid, and many other browsers, all with their own engines. On iPhones, afaik,

On Android I can install Firefox, Edge, other versions of these browsers from f-droid, and many other browsers, all with their own engines. On iPhones, afaik, you can only get Safari, or other browsers that are just a thin wrapper around Safari. That is a huge difference and I hope they know that.

boudin 4y ago
It's a bit like IE in the 2000s, it was possible to install an alternative browser on Windows but the fact that IE was pre-installed and set as default meant that it was very hard for competitors to get in the market. This is a similar situation on Android.
- nvrspyx 4y ago
  Ok, but IE continued to be pre-installed and set as default. Now, it's Edge. It was that IE was set as default AND Microsoft restricted the API for third-party browsers.
  - boudin 4y ago
    Not everywhere, in the EU a ruling forbid Microsoft to do that and when installing Windows, the user was prompted to choose a browser. It was there for quite a while: https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/windows-8-gets-browser-ballot-amid-eu-antitrust-probe/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/windows-8-ge...
tgv 4y ago
What's wrong with a wrapper around Safari? It's a capable and efficient browser. Firefox can wrap its bookmark sharing and whatever around it (I actually use Firefox on iOS, though I don't bother with the profile sharing). We don't need Safari to be 100% Chrome compatible, right? That's just for lazy programmers and greedy marketeers.
- nixass 4y ago
  It's literally crap and lacks features. See Firefox on Android, compare it to iOS and update your post
  - tgv 4y ago
    That's an absurd statement. I have an Android tablet, and Firefox on that is definitely less agreeable than on iOS. The way it handles tabs, searches, private windows, and data settings, are all inferior on Android. It does have more extensions.
    - daviddever23box 4y ago
      The only thing I need from Firefox on iOS is the ability to sync bookmarks and browser history, while providing some degree of sandboxing from the usual intrusions. What I DON’T need is multiple (versions of) sub-par browser engines, which this effort doesn’t seem to address: give me singletons of Gecko, Blink, and Webkit, each optimized for the platform in question. Even then, from a technical perspective, I’m not so certain that there’s ANY benefit to the user; I’d rather see some headway made on wasm3 support than to let Brussels or London dictate architectural considerations.
    - nixass 4y ago
      Firefox on Android is ten times more customizable, especially with addons - ads and privacy - iOS/Safari can hide in a hole. Anyway, the issue here seems to be that somw people think browsers on iOS are good, they're not, especially not against their Android versions
- NonNefarious 4y ago
  What's wrong is that you're stuck with the same shitty browser engine. If you encounter a problem with WebKit, you're screwed. Think it through.
  - tgv 4y ago
Gigachad 4y ago
Ironically, safari mostly only exists because of this restriction. If iOS allowed real browsers, only chrome would have users.
- agust 4y ago
  Extremely unlikely: browsers are not banned to use their own engine on macOS, and yet Safari is dominant there with around 60% market share. The fact that people think that tells a lot about the quality of Safari: "if people could use the real Chrome, they would all ditch Safari right away". That may lead you to wonder why Safari is so bad, considering the infinite funds Apple has? Perhaps is it because Apple has been able to underinvest in it for the last ten years because of the lack of competition?
  - adrr 4y ago
    What percentage of that 60% is because safari is the only browser on IOS? I use safari on Mac because it has all more passwords as 90% of my web browsing is on my phone. With auto generated passwords it forces me to use safari.
    - Thlom 4y ago
      You can use 1Password or other password managers. At least 1password works like a charm on both mac and iPhone across browsers just as good as keychain.
      - adrr 4y ago
        Just paid for 1password because of this issue. Still other issues that annoy me like safari issues with my kids online learning sites that I have to put them onto my laptop so they can use Firefox or chrome.
      - stjohnswarts 4y ago
        Bitwarden works well also.
- 4y ago
nuker 4y ago
Do you want Google web browsers monopoly? Yes, they know that too.
rvz 4y ago
There you go. Even if Apple allowed more browser engines on their devices, you will still see the same Chrome and Safari market dominance once again. It actually changes little to nothing as we already have seen with Android, I would not expect any significant change if Apple did this and it will result in Chrome still being on top then Safari second. The harsh truth is that you need a properly executed competitor to both iOS and Android. Unfortunately from the open-source and free-software world, there are just too many failures or potentials never being 'realised'. We saw Firefox OS being cheered all over the place here as an alternative to the mobile device duopoly and it turned out to be a failure due to little to no usage. The same thing with the promising Ubuntu OS and now again we have low usage with the plethora of Linux-based phones. So it seems that the market just does not care, and Mozilla and others are still unable to bring in something viable to compete against the big two. It is not 'early days' anymore and it may even be almost too late, unless massive amounts of funding gets poured into an alternative. The same thing is happening with smartwatches with Apple again having a 5+ year lead. We've all waited for Mozilla, Servo and others to become useful and they have all underperformed.

boudin 4y ago

It's a bit like IE in the 2000s, it was possible to install an alternative browser on Windows but the fact that IE was pre-installed and set as default meant that it was very hard for competitors to get in the market. This is a similar situation on Android.

nvrspyx 4y ago
Ok, but IE continued to be pre-installed and set as default. Now, it's Edge. It was that IE was set as default AND Microsoft restricted the API for third-party browsers.
- boudin 4y ago
  Not everywhere, in the EU a ruling forbid Microsoft to do that and when installing Windows, the user was prompted to choose a browser. It was there for quite a while: https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/windows-8-gets-browser-ballot-amid-eu-antitrust-probe/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/windows-8-ge...

tgv 4y ago

What's wrong with a wrapper around Safari? It's a capable and efficient browser. Firefox can wrap its bookmark sharing and whatever around it (I actually use Firefox on iOS, though I don't bother with the profile sharing). We don't need Safari to be 100% Chrome compatible, right? That's just for lazy programmers and greedy marketeers.

nixass 4y ago
It's literally crap and lacks features. See Firefox on Android, compare it to iOS and update your post
- tgv 4y ago
  That's an absurd statement. I have an Android tablet, and Firefox on that is definitely less agreeable than on iOS. The way it handles tabs, searches, private windows, and data settings, are all inferior on Android. It does have more extensions.
  - daviddever23box 4y ago
    The only thing I need from Firefox on iOS is the ability to sync bookmarks and browser history, while providing some degree of sandboxing from the usual intrusions. What I DON’T need is multiple (versions of) sub-par browser engines, which this effort doesn’t seem to address: give me singletons of Gecko, Blink, and Webkit, each optimized for the platform in question. Even then, from a technical perspective, I’m not so certain that there’s ANY benefit to the user; I’d rather see some headway made on wasm3 support than to let Brussels or London dictate architectural considerations.
  - nixass 4y ago
    Firefox on Android is ten times more customizable, especially with addons - ads and privacy - iOS/Safari can hide in a hole. Anyway, the issue here seems to be that somw people think browsers on iOS are good, they're not, especially not against their Android versions
NonNefarious 4y ago
What's wrong is that you're stuck with the same shitty browser engine. If you encounter a problem with WebKit, you're screwed. Think it through.
- tgv 4y ago

Gigachad 4y ago

Ironically, safari mostly only exists because of this restriction. If iOS allowed real browsers, only chrome would have users.

agust 4y ago
Extremely unlikely: browsers are not banned to use their own engine on macOS, and yet Safari is dominant there with around 60% market share. The fact that people think that tells a lot about the quality of Safari: "if people could use the real Chrome, they would all ditch Safari right away". That may lead you to wonder why Safari is so bad, considering the infinite funds Apple has? Perhaps is it because Apple has been able to underinvest in it for the last ten years because of the lack of competition?
- adrr 4y ago
  What percentage of that 60% is because safari is the only browser on IOS? I use safari on Mac because it has all more passwords as 90% of my web browsing is on my phone. With auto generated passwords it forces me to use safari.
  - Thlom 4y ago
    You can use 1Password or other password managers. At least 1password works like a charm on both mac and iPhone across browsers just as good as keychain.
    - adrr 4y ago
      Just paid for 1password because of this issue. Still other issues that annoy me like safari issues with my kids online learning sites that I have to put them onto my laptop so they can use Firefox or chrome.
    - stjohnswarts 4y ago
      Bitwarden works well also.
4y ago

nuker 4y ago

Do you want Google web browsers monopoly? Yes, they know that too.

rvz 4y ago

There you go. Even if Apple allowed more browser engines on their devices, you will still see the same Chrome and Safari market dominance once again. It actually changes little to nothing as we already have seen with Android, I would not expect any significant change if Apple did this and it will result in Chrome still being on top then Safari second. The harsh truth is that you need a properly executed competitor to both iOS and Android. Unfortunately from the open-source and free-software world, there are just too many failures or potentials never being 'realised'. We saw Firefox OS being cheered all over the place here as an alternative to the mobile device duopoly and it turned out to be a failure due to little to no usage. The same thing with the promising Ubuntu OS and now again we have low usage with the plethora of Linux-based phones. So it seems that the market just does not care, and Mozilla and others are still unable to bring in something viable to compete against the big two. It is not 'early days' anymore and it may even be almost too late, unless massive amounts of funding gets poured into an alternative. The same thing is happening with smartwatches with Apple again having a 5+ year lead. We've all waited for Mozilla, Servo and others to become useful and they have all underperformed.