11 ms·

I wish they would go further and require that these charging stations be able to accept cash.

by csense 4y ago

hedora 4y ago
At least it bans Charge Point's mandatory social network BS.
- shrimp_emoji 4y ago
  >computing price per watt >social credit query failed: "Uncaught TypeError: $(...)[0].getApp is not a function"
lp0_on_fire 4y ago
Fat Chance. Reading between the lines of US government policy making it's clear that our political betters would prefer a system whereby every transaction can be tracked digitally down to the cent.
- alwayslikethis 4y ago
  and this is why I will not be buying an electric car. They are cool technology-wise, but the telemetry in in the car itself combined with the inability to refuel it without giving up your info to the big brother makes me hesitate.
  - Kon-Peki 4y ago
    The same telemetry is in your gasoline car. You can "secretly" refuel an electric car at your own home, or the home of your friend, or at many other places. But unless you know how to make your own gasoline, that's not happening with your ICE vehicle. So electric cars are an improvement.
    - 0daystock 4y ago
      A gasoline engine can run without any software and thus be demonstrably free of backdoors, planned obsolescence mechanisms and the obvious tracking/spying inherent with most commercial programs today.
      - Kon-Peki 4y ago
        Good call. Just a few weeks ago I bought a gasoline-powered John Deere with 0 software (controlling the engine). It has 21 horsepower and can reach a top speed of 6.5 mph. If you want to step up a bit their 1-series and the base model 2-series tractors have mechanically-injected Yanmar diesels that are seriously wonderful little motors. A lot of 30-45 foot sailboats also use them, so you could literally travel the world with one. If you wanted something more automotive grade, that ship sailed about 40 years ago. Sorry.
      - Klonoar 4y ago
        EV convert an old car to get around much of that. ;)
      - wbsss4412 4y ago
        When was the last gas car commercially available that didn’t run without software involved? As a practical matter I don’t see how what you wrote applies.
      - fzzzy 4y ago
        And cameras with license plate readers could be at every gas station.
      - supertrope 4y ago
        Does your definition of software include the microcontrollers that handle anti-lock braking, fuel efficient engines, and automatic emergency braking?
    - bravetraveler 4y ago
      Just here to mention those portable gas cans
    - alwayslikethis 4y ago
      Of course, I would not be buying a new gasoline car either. The point here is with gasoline the car from 10-15 year ago is not much of a downgrade compared to today, whereas with electric it is.
  - 0daystock 4y ago
    Don't forget they can be remotely disabled for any time or reason, seriously creepy stuff. https://dailycaller.com/2021/11/29/barr-bidens-infrastructure-bill-contains-backdoor-kill-switch-for-cars/ https://dailycaller.com/2021/11/29/barr-bidens-infrastructur...
    - Clubber 4y ago
      OnStar has been doing that since the 1990s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
        Famously(?) depicted in the first Fast and Furious film!
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    You only pay cash at gas pumps? I’ve got to remember they still have attendants, I haven’t done something like that in 30 years.
    - alwayslikethis 4y ago
      Yeah. Maybe it is different in the US. I usually pay cash at gas pumps unless I don't have enough on that day.
LatteLazy 4y ago
Is there some specific reason I am missong or just that you prefer cash?
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  ...privacy?
  - moistly 4y ago
    Your electric vehicle is going to identify itself to the charger. Paying cash will not gain you any privacy.
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      Rental and/or borrowed cars turn a car back into a tool and not an identifier beacon.
- lp0_on_fire 4y ago
  It's bad enough most employers force you to use direct deposit instead of paper checks - do we really want a world where, in order to fill up your car (or charge it) you MUST have a credit/debit card?
  - supertrope 4y ago
    The market has spoken. If you don't have a credit card and a smartphone you're not a real customer. (Better keep that phone charged and within range of a cell tower).
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    Paper checks are just as traceable as direct deposit. Lots of gas stations are already unmanned at certain times, requiring a card to buy gas. You can use prepaid cards bought with cash, however to get the same effect (as long as you don’t use the card for an online or traceable purchase, which charging an EV probably would be since chargers exchange info ).
Kon-Peki 4y ago
> I wish they would go further and require that these charging stations be able to accept cash. On a completely serious note, please let them know: > The FHWA requests comment on the payment methods that are currently proposed including whether non-contactless payment options should be required. The FHWA is not requiring that the sole payment method be credit card, in order to be mindful of the needs of the unbanked and underbanked who may need to pay via another payment method such as the option to purchase a prepaid card to be used at the EV charging station. This section also would require that multilingual access and access for people with disabilities be provided in the creation of payment instructions. The FHWA specifically requests comments on whether the proposed payment method language adequately meets the needs of the unbanked and underbanked as well as strategies to address multilingual access and access for people with disabilities in the creation of EV charging payment instructions. The FHWA also requests comments on whether other payment methods should be required beyond what is currently proposed. https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/alternative_fuel_corridors/resources/nprm_evcharging_unofficial.pdf https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/alternative_fuel_corrid... FYI, they are going to set the requirement to be a minimum of 4 150kW fast chargers per charge station, open to the public 24/7/365 with special consideration made for flood plains, etc to be sure that they work in the case of hurricane evacuation or other emergency needs. As far as cash goes, I think a big challenge is going to be that it is not economically feasible to have all of the stations staffed by humans all day every day. It looks like they will require vending machines that accept cash and dole out prepaid cards that the chargers will use, so that's not a terrible option as long as there aren't unreasonable fees involved. PS - Dang - this is the "official" notice, which also lists additional EV infrastructure plans, such as putting public chargers in national parks https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/06/09/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-proposes-new-standards-for-national-electric-vehicle-charging-network/#:~:text=Today%2C%20the%20Biden%2DHarris%20Administration,of%20the%20Bipartisan%20Infrastructure%20Law https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...
- moistly 4y ago
  Are unbanked/underbanked driving electric cars? I can’t imagine they can afford to pay cash for those vehicles, and they obviously won’t be getting a car loan. I doubt it’s possible to rent one without a credit card. Not to say the chargers shouldn’t take cash, just that the unbanked seem an implausible excuse.
supertrope 4y ago
Mandating cash will result in less charging stations. Sending people around in armored cars to collect banknotes and fix additional vending machines is overhead. Driving around rural areas is a huge time and mileage suck. The demographic that can afford EVs almost always carries a bank card. Extra amenities like rain shelters and bike racks are nice but divert money from the main goal of having more areas with enough working chargers. Non-Tesla charging stations are already poorly maintained.
- breadloaf 4y ago
  I can live with a contactless debit card payment, but I am done with having 167 applications in my phone to use that or the other charger.
- csense 4y ago
  Gas stations all accept cash. Some even give you a discount for not using a credit card.
_xerces_ 4y ago
As others have mentioned, for various reasons I don't think requiring cash is practical or will even be an option used by many. I do think some provision should be made for those who would otherwise be stranded if there are problems with payment. Maybe users in need could get a certain amount of emergency charge for free or on loan up to some limit per year and tied to your license plate or drivers' license number.

I wish they would go further and require that these charging stations be able to accept cash.

by csense 4y ago

I wish they would go further and require that these charging stations be able to accept cash.

hedora 4y ago

At least it bans Charge Point's mandatory social network BS.

shrimp_emoji 4y ago
>computing price per watt >social credit query failed: "Uncaught TypeError: $(...)[0].getApp is not a function"

lp0_on_fire 4y ago

Fat Chance. Reading between the lines of US government policy making it's clear that our political betters would prefer a system whereby every transaction can be tracked digitally down to the cent.

alwayslikethis 4y ago
and this is why I will not be buying an electric car. They are cool technology-wise, but the telemetry in in the car itself combined with the inability to refuel it without giving up your info to the big brother makes me hesitate.
- Kon-Peki 4y ago
  The same telemetry is in your gasoline car. You can "secretly" refuel an electric car at your own home, or the home of your friend, or at many other places. But unless you know how to make your own gasoline, that's not happening with your ICE vehicle. So electric cars are an improvement.
  - 0daystock 4y ago
    A gasoline engine can run without any software and thus be demonstrably free of backdoors, planned obsolescence mechanisms and the obvious tracking/spying inherent with most commercial programs today.
    - Kon-Peki 4y ago
      Good call. Just a few weeks ago I bought a gasoline-powered John Deere with 0 software (controlling the engine). It has 21 horsepower and can reach a top speed of 6.5 mph. If you want to step up a bit their 1-series and the base model 2-series tractors have mechanically-injected Yanmar diesels that are seriously wonderful little motors. A lot of 30-45 foot sailboats also use them, so you could literally travel the world with one. If you wanted something more automotive grade, that ship sailed about 40 years ago. Sorry.
    - Klonoar 4y ago
      EV convert an old car to get around much of that. ;)
    - wbsss4412 4y ago
      When was the last gas car commercially available that didn’t run without software involved? As a practical matter I don’t see how what you wrote applies.
    - fzzzy 4y ago
      And cameras with license plate readers could be at every gas station.
    - supertrope 4y ago
      Does your definition of software include the microcontrollers that handle anti-lock braking, fuel efficient engines, and automatic emergency braking?
  - bravetraveler 4y ago
    Just here to mention those portable gas cans
  - alwayslikethis 4y ago
    Of course, I would not be buying a new gasoline car either. The point here is with gasoline the car from 10-15 year ago is not much of a downgrade compared to today, whereas with electric it is.
- 0daystock 4y ago
  Don't forget they can be remotely disabled for any time or reason, seriously creepy stuff. https://dailycaller.com/2021/11/29/barr-bidens-infrastructure-bill-contains-backdoor-kill-switch-for-cars/ https://dailycaller.com/2021/11/29/barr-bidens-infrastructur...
  - Clubber 4y ago
    OnStar has been doing that since the 1990s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      Famously(?) depicted in the first Fast and Furious film!
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  You only pay cash at gas pumps? I’ve got to remember they still have attendants, I haven’t done something like that in 30 years.
  - alwayslikethis 4y ago
    Yeah. Maybe it is different in the US. I usually pay cash at gas pumps unless I don't have enough on that day.

LatteLazy 4y ago

Is there some specific reason I am missong or just that you prefer cash?

aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
...privacy?
- moistly 4y ago
  Your electric vehicle is going to identify itself to the charger. Paying cash will not gain you any privacy.
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    Rental and/or borrowed cars turn a car back into a tool and not an identifier beacon.
lp0_on_fire 4y ago
It's bad enough most employers force you to use direct deposit instead of paper checks - do we really want a world where, in order to fill up your car (or charge it) you MUST have a credit/debit card?
- supertrope 4y ago
  The market has spoken. If you don't have a credit card and a smartphone you're not a real customer. (Better keep that phone charged and within range of a cell tower).
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  Paper checks are just as traceable as direct deposit. Lots of gas stations are already unmanned at certain times, requiring a card to buy gas. You can use prepaid cards bought with cash, however to get the same effect (as long as you don’t use the card for an online or traceable purchase, which charging an EV probably would be since chargers exchange info ).

Kon-Peki 4y ago

> I wish they would go further and require that these charging stations be able to accept cash. On a completely serious note, please let them know: > The FHWA requests comment on the payment methods that are currently proposed including whether non-contactless payment options should be required. The FHWA is not requiring that the sole payment method be credit card, in order to be mindful of the needs of the unbanked and underbanked who may need to pay via another payment method such as the option to purchase a prepaid card to be used at the EV charging station. This section also would require that multilingual access and access for people with disabilities be provided in the creation of payment instructions. The FHWA specifically requests comments on whether the proposed payment method language adequately meets the needs of the unbanked and underbanked as well as strategies to address multilingual access and access for people with disabilities in the creation of EV charging payment instructions. The FHWA also requests comments on whether other payment methods should be required beyond what is currently proposed. https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/alternative_fuel_corridors/resources/nprm_evcharging_unofficial.pdf https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/alternative_fuel_corrid... FYI, they are going to set the requirement to be a minimum of 4 150kW fast chargers per charge station, open to the public 24/7/365 with special consideration made for flood plains, etc to be sure that they work in the case of hurricane evacuation or other emergency needs. As far as cash goes, I think a big challenge is going to be that it is not economically feasible to have all of the stations staffed by humans all day every day. It looks like they will require vending machines that accept cash and dole out prepaid cards that the chargers will use, so that's not a terrible option as long as there aren't unreasonable fees involved. PS - Dang - this is the "official" notice, which also lists additional EV infrastructure plans, such as putting public chargers in national parks https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/06/09/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-proposes-new-standards-for-national-electric-vehicle-charging-network/#:~:text=Today%2C%20the%20Biden%2DHarris%20Administration,of%20the%20Bipartisan%20Infrastructure%20Law https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...

moistly 4y ago
Are unbanked/underbanked driving electric cars? I can’t imagine they can afford to pay cash for those vehicles, and they obviously won’t be getting a car loan. I doubt it’s possible to rent one without a credit card. Not to say the chargers shouldn’t take cash, just that the unbanked seem an implausible excuse.

supertrope 4y ago

Mandating cash will result in less charging stations. Sending people around in armored cars to collect banknotes and fix additional vending machines is overhead. Driving around rural areas is a huge time and mileage suck. The demographic that can afford EVs almost always carries a bank card. Extra amenities like rain shelters and bike racks are nice but divert money from the main goal of having more areas with enough working chargers. Non-Tesla charging stations are already poorly maintained.

breadloaf 4y ago
I can live with a contactless debit card payment, but I am done with having 167 applications in my phone to use that or the other charger.
csense 4y ago
Gas stations all accept cash. Some even give you a discount for not using a credit card.

_xerces_ 4y ago

As others have mentioned, for various reasons I don't think requiring cash is practical or will even be an option used by many. I do think some provision should be made for those who would otherwise be stranded if there are problems with payment. Maybe users in need could get a certain amount of emergency charge for free or on loan up to some limit per year and tied to your license plate or drivers' license number.