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Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

183 points by leephillips 4y ago

colordrops 4y ago
It really bothers me how people foam at the mouth about this when there is far more direct evidence of much worse abuses in Israel/Palestine than Xinjiang, but somehow Xinjiang is the next holocaust and China is Nazi Germany. CIA and State Department propaganda at work.
- lpcvoid 4y ago
  Give me a break. Just because people point out that something is not good, it isn't invalid because worse things exist. Take off the conspiracy hat.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    Oh but you can absolutely see hypocrisy in what people care about by what they spend most of their time discussing. There is no conspiracy hat, it's just obvious.
  - colordrops 4y ago
    You need to lay off yourself. People didn't just point out that something is not good. They are claiming that it's the same as Nazi Germany and that you shouldn't even be allowed to discuss it or protest.
- yorwba 4y ago
  In response to your other comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31691085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31691085 claiming that "No concrete evidence has ever been released that there is mass incarceration in Xinjiang." https://web.archive.org/web/20180921114505/http://www.xj.jcy.gov.cn/jwgk/gzbg/201804/t20180405_2176419.shtml https://web.archive.org/web/20180921114505/http://www.xj.jcy... > 五年来，全区检察机关共批准逮捕各类刑事犯罪嫌疑人330918人 https://web.archive.org/web/20210811151913/https://www.spp.gov.cn/spp/gzbg/201803/t20180325_372171.shtml https://web.archive.org/web/20210811151913/https://www.spp.g... > 2013年至2017年，全国检察机关共批捕各类刑事犯罪嫌疑人453.1万人 Of 4.5 million arrests in all of China during five years, more than 7% were in Xinjiang according to Chinese government sources, even though less than 2% of the population live there. If you focus on 2017 alone, more than 20% of all arrests were in Xinjiang https://www.nchrd.org/2018/07/criminal-arrests-in-xinjiang-account-for-21-of-chinas-total-in-2017/ https://www.nchrd.org/2018/07/criminal-arrests-in-xinjiang-a...
  - colordrops 4y ago
    Yes, but those stats are not too different from black people in the US. Is the US a Nazi country executing genocide? Read the rest of my other comment. I said that bad things were happening there, but that it's being exaggerated. You seem to agree.
  - colordrops 4y ago
    Can't edit my original comment, but I looked it up. Out of 10 million arrests in the US, 2.5 million are black, or 25%, which is double their population. The US also has both the highest prison population in total, and per capita. You better be calling this a genocide of blacks if you aren't a total hypocrite.
    - yorwba 4y ago
      No, I'd call it mass incarceration. But good on you for looking it up. Hopefully you'll also remember to look up stuff about China before commenting in the future.
Fargoan 4y ago
If I lived in a major city I'd probably take a couple of classes so I'd have an excuse to be on campus irl trolling these pro CCP losers
richwater 4y ago
[flagged]
intunderflow 4y ago
This reminds me of the time a university student in Australia was expelled for criticising the Chinese Government: https://www.wsj.com/articles/australian-student-critical-of-china-threatened-with-expulsion-prosecution-11589896253 https://www.wsj.com/articles/australian-student-critical-of-... https://twitter.com/DrewPavlou/status/1256505548314296320/photo/1 https://twitter.com/DrewPavlou/status/1256505548314296320/ph...
- eunos 4y ago
  He has since try his luck on the recently held 2022 general election as a new party but lost.
- notahacker 4y ago
  Reminds me of a time the comments section of my university's student newspaper practically melted down with angry criticism from a mixture of Chinese students and random Chinese people who had read Chinese social media when a student wrote a not-particularly-great but also pretty mild article about not trusting Chinese foreign policy. (The writer of the original article became a well regarded columnist at the FT)
olliej 4y ago
Hmmm, if a group of white supremacists booed someone talking about their experience of racism, then got up and walked out, what would the administration’s response been? If that group then sent an email saying that they left because they did not feel comfortable and were subjected to hostility by the surrounding audience, would that be given a moment of respect? What if that organisation was giving large amounts of funding to Cornell, would that have impacted the response? These seem like reasonable question, variations of which come up every time students of some country committing crimes against humanity come out in support of said crimes. The response is always silence. I don’t really expect anything different this time.
- jmprspret 4y ago
  Indeed. Similar things have occurred in universities here in Australia. And as far as I know, universities bend over backwards because a large amount of their money comes in from international students. A lot of which happen to be Chinese.
- cjensen 4y ago
  Legally speaking, the University admin cannot do anything to Chinese students who boo and walk out, and also cannot do anything to white supremacists who boo and walk out. In the US, Students have First Amendment rights to express themselves. The critical point here is that by walking out they did not prevent any speakers from exercising their own First Amendment rights. It does not mean we have to respect them for that or be polite about it. That's our First Amendment right.
  - teebs 4y ago
    That's not how the First Amendment works. Cornell University is a private organization and it can choose not to do business with people if it wants to, provided that it's not breaking other laws by doing so. Students get suspended or expelled for speech all the time. (I would guess public universities can too - the First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law..." - not sure where its boundaries are drawn though.)
jasinjames 4y ago
I just graduated from Cornell, and I'm not surprised. Some student posters around campus which read "Hong Kong stands with Ukraine" had the "Hong Kong" scribbled out by someone else. [1] I saw students point and laugh at a similar poster. On multiple occasions, I saw scraps left behind where posters criticizing Xi Jinping or the CCP had hung. [1] https://i.postimg.cc/25LM9hZJ/7297-B1-DB-5-CB3-4019-BCF3-8-F1-A2409-DD3-A.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/25LM9hZJ/7297-B1-DB-5-CB3-4019-BCF3-8-F...
- zaptrem 4y ago
  I'm a current senior at Cornell and I'm conflicted. > On Friday, the administration told students in an emailed statement "we have an expectation and responsibility to engage with viewpoints that we disagree with," but that "we must also respect that walkouts are a legitimate form of protest and an appropriate expression of disapproval." I like free speech as much as the next Hacker News user, but many of the actions of these students (they have an organization and a secret group chat to coordinate stuff like this) absolutely fall into the toleration of intolerance paradox. On the other hand, walking out is just about the most polite form of protest you can conduct. Certainly better than the mob that tried to prevent the law school Boston Flag SC case debate from occurring this semester. However, even without imposing actual consequences, the administration absolutely should have rebuked those using their free speech in favor of human rights abuses. They should have done more to defend Rizwangul NurMuhammad.
  - femiagbabiaka 4y ago
    Right wing activists have been doing this kinda stuff wrt Israel on campuses for decades. I agree, this kind of intolerance should be stamped out. The question is: whose morals become law?
    - systemvoltage 4y ago
      If you're in the US: https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/ https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/ > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Emphasis mine. There is a beautiful expansion by Blackstone. It makes me proud of this place: > The liberty of the press is indeed essential to the nature of a free state; but this consists in laying no previous restraints upon publications, and not in freedom from censure for criminal matter when published. Every freeman has an undoubted right to lay what sentiments he pleases before the public; to forbid this, is to destroy the freedom of the press: but if he publishes what is improper, mischievous, or illegal, he must take the consequences of his own temerity. To subject the press to the restrictive power of a licenser, as was formerly done, both before and since the Revolution, is to subject all freedom of sentiment to the prejudices of one man, and make him the arbitrary and infallible judge of all controverted points in learning, religion and government. But to punish as the law does at present any dangerous or offensive writings, which, when published, shall on a fair and impartial trial be adjudged of a pernicious tendency, is necessary for the preservation of peace and good order, of government and religion, the only solid foundations of civil liberty. Thus, the will of individuals is still left free: the abuse only of that free will is the object of legal punishment. Neither is any restraint hereby laid upon freedom of thought or inquiry; liberty of private sentiment is still left; the disseminating, or making public, of bad sentiments, destructive to the ends of society, is the crime which society corrects. Citation: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt1-2-1/ALDE_00000393/#ALDF_00006040 https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt1-2-1/ALD...
anovikov 4y ago
- lvturner 4y ago
  100% Agree Then they should move on to those with an African connection, after that I think anyone with connections to SAE. Indian and Pakistani next. After that the French, once accomplished they can start to roll out exclusions to the rest of Europe. Then the Brits, man the Scottish and Irish in particular, trouble makers them lot. With any luck in a decade or two America can be purely American. /s
  - rdevsrex 4y ago
    Ok this is classic hyperbole, but to pretend like 0 Chinese students are uses by the CCP, just like I'm sure the CIA has done similar tactics before would be naive.
    - lvturner 4y ago
      Let's be real, I fully expect for almost EVERY nation to be doing this - but it doesn't make a ban based on race alone any less of a terrible idea.
- thyrsus 4y ago
  Either this is sarcasm or an extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence.
  - paganel 4y ago
    Not the OP but that's what will most probably happen in case of a USA vs China conflict, the writing is on the wall, just look at what the reaction to anything Russia-related has been in the West during this latest war.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Commodore63 4y ago
The cries of racism really ring hollow when they're talking about actions of a government, not a people or a culture.
- gumby 4y ago
  Wait, what? So Jim Crow or Apartheid were not racist because they were promulgated by governments?
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    For context, in the article the mainland Chinese student association leader mentioned that by the mere mention of Xinjiang and the CCP’s culpability was seen as being racist toward them as Chinese people.
    - yorwba 4y ago
      Did we read the same article? William Wang, president of the program's student government body, drafted a letter that was signed by more than 80 Chinese students in the program and sent to the administration on Thursday evening, then sent to all program students on Friday. "We left today’s colloquium because we felt that the atmosphere in that room was extremely hostile towards us," the letter stated. "At that moment, we were not sitting in a classroom; we were crucified in a courtroom for crimes that we did not commit."
      - chaostheory 4y ago
        Yes we did. “we were crucified in a courtroom for crimes that we did not commit.” These students are confusing criticism of a government and leadership with criticism of an entire race of people. Either that or they’re being disingenuous. Saying that Xi Jinping and the CCP have terrible policies is not racist. For the record I am also Chinese. Since we’re on the subject, Jiang Zemin is more fit to rule. That’s something a lot of different factions both inside and outside of China can agree on. Xi Jinping is a disaster not just for China, but the entire world.
whimsicalism 4y ago
I think leaving en masse from a lecture/speech that you ideologically disagree with is likely one of the few permissible forms of protest in a university context.
- ashton314 4y ago
  It’s certainly better than many alternatives; however, universities are not meant to be places of ideological dogmatism; a better response to a lecture you disagree with is an open, rational debate/discussion.
- kramerger 4y ago
  Agreed, but the same group also do this > Some Chinese international students at universities in the U.S. and Canada have reported anti-Beijing speech to university authorities as a form of anti-Chinese racism, or they reported Uyghurs and Chinese dissidents on campus to Chinese diplomatic officials. Can you have freedom of speach while trying to take it away from others?
  - sofixa 4y ago
    > Can you have freedom of speach while trying to take it away from others? Ah, the paradox of tolerance at work.
  - k_sze 4y ago
    You don't know that they are the same group.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    This links to an article about Chinese students at GW. Do you mean to say this group of students transferred en masse from GW to Cornell or are you just saying they are the same group because they are both Chinese?
    - kramerger 4y ago
      There is a connection, the article discusses it. Please read it again :)
t-3 4y ago
What do you expect people to do? Abroad in a nation and culture which is quite hostile and dismissive of your own, most people would tend to be standoffish about anything that could be perceived as a slight against their home. American culture is and has been extremely biased against China, and not always with proper justification. Did anyone really expect to win over Chinese students with a harsh, aggressive, and, frankly, hypocritical, foreign policy stance interspersed with large amounts of good old-fashioned "dey tuk a jubs!" racism?
- beebmam 4y ago
  I expect people to treat others with respect. That's what I expect people to do.
- thatswrong0 4y ago
  Ah yes, the casual defense of cultural genocide based on the fact that other governments have done bad things too. And seriously, when tf did criticizing the obviously malicious actions of a government become racist.
  - logicchains 4y ago
    > Ah yes, the casual defense of cultural genocide based on the fact that other governments have done bad things too. It's not cultural genocide. Forcibly sterilising people of a specific ethnicity is literal genocide.
- refurb 4y ago
  These students chose to come to the US for an education. It’s a bit arrogant to come and suddenly decide that the rules at home should apply in your guest country. I have zero issues if they want to debate and argue for their own country. But you don’t get to break the rules.
jp0d 4y ago
It feels like the history is repeating itself. The people of Nazi Germany probably thought they were doing the "right thing". These Chinese students have been brainwashed enough to believe everything their government says. Or may be even paid well enough to act like that!
- jjcc 4y ago
  The brainwashed cannot know they are brainwashed. So they feeling might be in the other way: They know the truth and you are brainwashed. I bet you and many HNer's won't be able to understand what I said. There is another saying: The new version of Nazi will be reincarnated as anti-Nazi which might or might not be true. Human has nature cognitive defects caused by the evolution not being able to catch up the pace of changing society. It causes conflicts, war and even self destruction. Edit/Fix:was Human has nature cognitive defects caused by not being able to catch up the pace of evolution.
  - deltaonefour 4y ago
    Both are brainwashed. Basically all Americans are completely incapable of sympathizing in any way with Chinese perspective. Nobody agrees with the Chinese government but at the same time basically no one is also able to explain the reasoning from the Chinese perspective. The lack of the ability to disagree while at the same time understanding the Chinese perspective indicates a huge amount of bias. It's very easy to see this. Literally ask the person you responded why the Chinese government acted the way they did. What motivated them? Likely he will give simpleton answers like "power corrupts" or dictatorships are evil without ever understanding the complexity of the situation.
    - logicchains 4y ago
      >What motivated them? Likely he will give simpleton answers like "power corrupts" or dictatorships are evil without ever understanding the complexity of the situation. The motivation is very simple: the Uighurs started a separatist movement, and there's little the Chinese government hates more than separatist movements. Now, many governments in the world don't like separatist movements, but you don't see the Spanish government putting Catalonians in concentration camps and forcibly sterilising them. It's not brainwashed to believe forcibly sterilising people is unacceptable, it's basic Judeo-Christian/humanist values.
another_story 4y ago
Let these students keep embarrassing themselves and their country. The more people can see how the CPC thinks of others, which is exactly what these kids are expressing, the better. Shame and losing face will be the only thing that'll make the CPC change.
- dgellow 4y ago
  When did that ever work?
  - agapon 4y ago
    Exactly. Reminded me of this tweet: https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1534969496724807680 https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1534969496724807680
    - kwertzzz 4y ago
      Thank you so much for sharing this. "And at the same time it is stated on behalf of Chancellor Hilter that these acts of violence [against Jews] by Nazis have been condemned and that official order haves been issued to prevent their recurrence" Telling X and doing !X is not a recent invention.
- asddubs 4y ago
  that's an attitude that seems to accepts the consequences for those being harassed as collateral without giving it much thought, though
picsao 4y ago
mise_en_place 4y ago
While I do sympathize with this student, you have to be careful when criticizing a hostile government you are a citizen of. Only in the United States do we have such protections in place to prevent the government from retaliating against the individual for voicing a critical opinion.
- gattilorenz 4y ago
  > In the United States, and many other countries, we have such protections in place to prevent the government from retaliating against the individual for voicing a critical opinion. The same cannot be said for countries like China, Russia, Belarus, etc. There, I fixed it for you. But it's also naive to think that the government cannot make your life impossible if it's really motivated to do so, even in the US, despite the principle.
  - mise_en_place 4y ago
    Well, that's what the US is currently weaponizing the USD to do. Like when they froze Russia out of the global financial system, but France and Germany kept paying them for natgas and oil.
    - seszett 4y ago
      I might be wrong, but I think it's the EU (along with US and UK) that blocked Russia from Swift. Most EU countries keep paying Russia for gas and oil (as an exception to the banking sanctions) because they are really dependent on it, not because they don't want to weaponize the Euro. France is not much dependent on Russian imports though, but Germany is along with Italy, the Netherlands and Hungary mostly.
- throw93232 4y ago
  Is it allowed now to talk about laptop from hell? US is a joke!
  - mise_en_place 4y ago
fxtentacle 4y ago
I know this way of thinking is horrible, but let me play devil's advocate for a while: What if the CCP puts Uyghurs into prison simply because the majority of Chinese citizens want Uyghurs in prison? 1. That would explain the behavior in the article. 2. That would explain why studies report that people in China feel like a democracy. Their government works in the way that benefits the majority of its people, so for some definitions of it, that would be a "democracy". 3. That would explain why some presumably Chinese citizens vandalize posters criticizing Jinping or the CCP. Try showing up with a "Trump is an idiot" poster at a MAGA rally ... and you'll see the same effect.
- glogla 4y ago
  Yes. China is like this because Chinese are like this, and they want it to be like this (for all possible values of "like this"). Same with Russia (who is invading Ukraine because Russians want it), Saudi Arabia (who is beheading gay people because Saudis want it) and other places. I have even heard following argument: it takes surprisingly little people to overthrow a dictator, so counterintuitively dictators have much higher support than democracies. In democracy, you need support of majority of voters (or whatever, depending on the voting system) while for a dictator to stay up (assuming no outside help) 90 % of people have to stand behind the dictator. A dictator is not someone who took power, but someone granted power by the masses as long as they do what the masses want. In any case, the real problem here is that the Western nations continue to let people "like this" (for all possible values of "like this" opposed to Western values) in and let them terrorize others, because money is more important than _not_ having people terrorized. Stop letting the pro-CCP Chinese study in the West and the problem solves itself. They are not in any way entitled to come here and hurt people.
  - rajup 4y ago
    > it takes surprisingly little people to overthrow a dictator, so counterintuitively dictators have much higher support than democracies. That’s a very unique perspective I never thought of it that way. I wonder though if some or most of a dictator’s power come from having a tight control over means of suppression, from controlled media to the military. The latter 2 would seem to require a much smaller percentage of support than 90%
golemiprague 4y ago
I don't see what so special about that, there were many such protests against people from the right side of the political map or even people who just perceived as such. There are such protests against Israeli speakers or students and other issues where you got a billion of people on one side of the argument and only few millions on the other side. Sometimes it is just a numbers game and there are much more Chinese than Uyghur.
proudasian 4y ago
I am a Chinese-American, born and lived in California my entire life. The past few years has seen an explosion in racism and Sinophobia against Asians, against Chinese people in particular. The hate has motivated far more people to sympathize with the CCP than they could dream of. So I can understand the Chinese students actions here. Also, despite what they spoonfeed you on American media, the Chinese government is not committing genocide in Xinjiang - they are not killing people in mass. The amount of misinformation that's being spread is amazing, and scary, as it this is literally the same tactic used when they fabricated justification for war against Iraq with WMDs. The evidence we have is the Uyghurs (who are deemed a national security threat in China) are indeed put into internment camps - but this is more similar to Japanese internment camps US did in WW2 rather than genocide. I believe the West is threatened by China's progress, and the fact that China is an Asian nation. Westerners cannot fathom that Asian faces can lead the world. As a corrollary of this, China has done more to dethrone white supremacy than Black Lives Matter could ever have done. Also relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/v8k0p1/it_angers_me_that_racism_against_chinese_people/ https://www.reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/v8k0p1/it_an...
sumanthvepa 4y ago
As a Cornell alum from India , I’ve seen so many these sorts of political storms in a teacup. Especially, of the India-Pakistan and Israel-Palestine variety. If you’re a foreign student, just don’t engage with this stuff. You are a guest in a foreign country. So even if you disagree with the views of your hosts, keep them to yourself and be polite and gracious. Your home country’s government is more than capable defending its point of view in the appropriate fora. You are at Cornell to learn, not engage in political brawls.
- xdennis 4y ago
  That is very non Western approach. Just because you're foreign doesn't mean you shouldn't engage in political discourse. It's wrong to bully the victims of China, but not to verbally defend China, as messed up as it is.
Gnob 4y ago
> The big picture: Uyghurs and other marginalized groups with ties to China can face intimidation, state surveillance and threats to their family members in China when they speak out on U.S. campuses about oppression by the Chinese government. > Multiple people present at the event described the Chinese students' reaction to NurMuhammad as "jeering," "taunts," "snickering" and "booing.". As much as I love long discussions when it comes to technical topics I think this issue is pretty simple to solve, send them back to China. Is it unjust / unfair? imho, no it's not. Because they won't be prosecuted or hurt anyways in China, they can complete their education and live a happy ever after under the CCP they so much -obviously- support. And make an announcement, that any show of support for authoritarian regimes / bullying or any such behaviour would get them expelled. They can just leave in silence if they fear the CCP might actually hurt their close ones, there is no need to taunt or show any symbol of aggression. On the other hand, the Uygurs has been the actually oppressed ones, a Chinese person isn't going to die in China especially after the show they made in the University according to the article, they can go and support the CCP in China and they will probably even have more privileges than the average Chinese person. If they're going to support the CCP anyways, why not support it in China? at the very least, anyone acting with malice and a clear unexcused support for the CCP, such as taking down posters alone when nobody is watching etc, should be expelled and sent back to China. Even in the case of them being actually victims almost forced to preach the CCP, what good is it going to do if they're taunting others who are publicly speaking out in other parts of the world? If they do that in China they will actually be celebrated by the govt. so I see no point of letting them stay personally, unless they do speak out against the regime or stay silent and mind themselves.
throwrecession 4y ago
What I find really interesting is that if these were conservative students that did the same (for any topic) the other students would have gone ballistic, the school sanctioned them, and every Twitter warrior under the sun blasted them to pieces, but due to some magical reason, none of this happens when it comes to China/CCP (this is not the first time) Then people have the balls to claim that US liberal organizations don't bow down to China (or their money I guess)
- gamblor956 4y ago
  Conservative students have been doing this for a while now without much, if any, notice or sanction. Hell, they've been doing this on the UC Berkeley campus since I was a student and the Daily Cal doesn't even bother cover their protests anymore because it's the same old victimhood shtick conservatives have been playing at for decades. (But note that that the seniormost U.S. GOP senator is married to a CCP senior official and ask yourself which party is in bed with the Chinese government.)
momofarm 4y ago
looks like educated in west world doesn't make these folks more........democated? maybe one day chinese people will be like Uyghur people, hated by most of the world, force to leave their country, seeking a land to live, and this DID happens before. (Let's remind to people don't know history of china, lots of regime in mainland china are foreigner from outside, ex: 唐(dang), 元(yuan), 清(ching), and its close to be fully occupied by Japan in last centry. If not Japanese gov decided to hit Pearl Harbour, there will be no CCP dominated in mainland China now, and we may speak Japanese and rest of mainland China will be like a giant colony of Japan)
- tintedfireglass 4y ago
  Do you mean "tang" or is it "dang"

183 points by leephillips 4y ago

It really bothers me how people foam at the mouth about this when there is far more direct evidence of much worse abuses in Israel/Palestine than Xinjiang, but somehow Xinjiang is the next holocaust and China is Nazi Germany. CIA and State Department propaganda at work.

lpcvoid 4y ago
Give me a break. Just because people point out that something is not good, it isn't invalid because worse things exist. Take off the conspiracy hat.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  Oh but you can absolutely see hypocrisy in what people care about by what they spend most of their time discussing. There is no conspiracy hat, it's just obvious.
- colordrops 4y ago
  You need to lay off yourself. People didn't just point out that something is not good. They are claiming that it's the same as Nazi Germany and that you shouldn't even be allowed to discuss it or protest.
yorwba 4y ago
In response to your other comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31691085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31691085 claiming that "No concrete evidence has ever been released that there is mass incarceration in Xinjiang." https://web.archive.org/web/20180921114505/http://www.xj.jcy.gov.cn/jwgk/gzbg/201804/t20180405_2176419.shtml https://web.archive.org/web/20180921114505/http://www.xj.jcy... > 五年来，全区检察机关共批准逮捕各类刑事犯罪嫌疑人330918人 https://web.archive.org/web/20210811151913/https://www.spp.gov.cn/spp/gzbg/201803/t20180325_372171.shtml https://web.archive.org/web/20210811151913/https://www.spp.g... > 2013年至2017年，全国检察机关共批捕各类刑事犯罪嫌疑人453.1万人 Of 4.5 million arrests in all of China during five years, more than 7% were in Xinjiang according to Chinese government sources, even though less than 2% of the population live there. If you focus on 2017 alone, more than 20% of all arrests were in Xinjiang https://www.nchrd.org/2018/07/criminal-arrests-in-xinjiang-account-for-21-of-chinas-total-in-2017/ https://www.nchrd.org/2018/07/criminal-arrests-in-xinjiang-a...
- colordrops 4y ago
  Yes, but those stats are not too different from black people in the US. Is the US a Nazi country executing genocide? Read the rest of my other comment. I said that bad things were happening there, but that it's being exaggerated. You seem to agree.
- colordrops 4y ago
  Can't edit my original comment, but I looked it up. Out of 10 million arrests in the US, 2.5 million are black, or 25%, which is double their population. The US also has both the highest prison population in total, and per capita. You better be calling this a genocide of blacks if you aren't a total hypocrite.
  - yorwba 4y ago
    No, I'd call it mass incarceration. But good on you for looking it up. Hopefully you'll also remember to look up stuff about China before commenting in the future.

Fargoan 4y ago

If I lived in a major city I'd probably take a couple of classes so I'd have an excuse to be on campus irl trolling these pro CCP losers

richwater 4y ago

[flagged]

intunderflow 4y ago

This reminds me of the time a university student in Australia was expelled for criticising the Chinese Government: https://www.wsj.com/articles/australian-student-critical-of-china-threatened-with-expulsion-prosecution-11589896253 https://www.wsj.com/articles/australian-student-critical-of-... https://twitter.com/DrewPavlou/status/1256505548314296320/photo/1 https://twitter.com/DrewPavlou/status/1256505548314296320/ph...

eunos 4y ago
He has since try his luck on the recently held 2022 general election as a new party but lost.
notahacker 4y ago
Reminds me of a time the comments section of my university's student newspaper practically melted down with angry criticism from a mixture of Chinese students and random Chinese people who had read Chinese social media when a student wrote a not-particularly-great but also pretty mild article about not trusting Chinese foreign policy. (The writer of the original article became a well regarded columnist at the FT)

olliej 4y ago

Hmmm, if a group of white supremacists booed someone talking about their experience of racism, then got up and walked out, what would the administration’s response been? If that group then sent an email saying that they left because they did not feel comfortable and were subjected to hostility by the surrounding audience, would that be given a moment of respect? What if that organisation was giving large amounts of funding to Cornell, would that have impacted the response? These seem like reasonable question, variations of which come up every time students of some country committing crimes against humanity come out in support of said crimes. The response is always silence. I don’t really expect anything different this time.

jmprspret 4y ago
Indeed. Similar things have occurred in universities here in Australia. And as far as I know, universities bend over backwards because a large amount of their money comes in from international students. A lot of which happen to be Chinese.
cjensen 4y ago
Legally speaking, the University admin cannot do anything to Chinese students who boo and walk out, and also cannot do anything to white supremacists who boo and walk out. In the US, Students have First Amendment rights to express themselves. The critical point here is that by walking out they did not prevent any speakers from exercising their own First Amendment rights. It does not mean we have to respect them for that or be polite about it. That's our First Amendment right.
- teebs 4y ago
  That's not how the First Amendment works. Cornell University is a private organization and it can choose not to do business with people if it wants to, provided that it's not breaking other laws by doing so. Students get suspended or expelled for speech all the time. (I would guess public universities can too - the First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law..." - not sure where its boundaries are drawn though.)

jasinjames 4y ago

I just graduated from Cornell, and I'm not surprised. Some student posters around campus which read "Hong Kong stands with Ukraine" had the "Hong Kong" scribbled out by someone else. [1] I saw students point and laugh at a similar poster. On multiple occasions, I saw scraps left behind where posters criticizing Xi Jinping or the CCP had hung. [1] https://i.postimg.cc/25LM9hZJ/7297-B1-DB-5-CB3-4019-BCF3-8-F1-A2409-DD3-A.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/25LM9hZJ/7297-B1-DB-5-CB3-4019-BCF3-8-F...

zaptrem 4y ago
I'm a current senior at Cornell and I'm conflicted. > On Friday, the administration told students in an emailed statement "we have an expectation and responsibility to engage with viewpoints that we disagree with," but that "we must also respect that walkouts are a legitimate form of protest and an appropriate expression of disapproval." I like free speech as much as the next Hacker News user, but many of the actions of these students (they have an organization and a secret group chat to coordinate stuff like this) absolutely fall into the toleration of intolerance paradox. On the other hand, walking out is just about the most polite form of protest you can conduct. Certainly better than the mob that tried to prevent the law school Boston Flag SC case debate from occurring this semester. However, even without imposing actual consequences, the administration absolutely should have rebuked those using their free speech in favor of human rights abuses. They should have done more to defend Rizwangul NurMuhammad.
- femiagbabiaka 4y ago
  Right wing activists have been doing this kinda stuff wrt Israel on campuses for decades. I agree, this kind of intolerance should be stamped out. The question is: whose morals become law?
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    If you're in the US: https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/ https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/ > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Emphasis mine. There is a beautiful expansion by Blackstone. It makes me proud of this place: > The liberty of the press is indeed essential to the nature of a free state; but this consists in laying no previous restraints upon publications, and not in freedom from censure for criminal matter when published. Every freeman has an undoubted right to lay what sentiments he pleases before the public; to forbid this, is to destroy the freedom of the press: but if he publishes what is improper, mischievous, or illegal, he must take the consequences of his own temerity. To subject the press to the restrictive power of a licenser, as was formerly done, both before and since the Revolution, is to subject all freedom of sentiment to the prejudices of one man, and make him the arbitrary and infallible judge of all controverted points in learning, religion and government. But to punish as the law does at present any dangerous or offensive writings, which, when published, shall on a fair and impartial trial be adjudged of a pernicious tendency, is necessary for the preservation of peace and good order, of government and religion, the only solid foundations of civil liberty. Thus, the will of individuals is still left free: the abuse only of that free will is the object of legal punishment. Neither is any restraint hereby laid upon freedom of thought or inquiry; liberty of private sentiment is still left; the disseminating, or making public, of bad sentiments, destructive to the ends of society, is the crime which society corrects. Citation: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt1-2-1/ALDE_00000393/#ALDF_00006040 https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt1-2-1/ALD...

anovikov 4y ago

lvturner 4y ago
100% Agree Then they should move on to those with an African connection, after that I think anyone with connections to SAE. Indian and Pakistani next. After that the French, once accomplished they can start to roll out exclusions to the rest of Europe. Then the Brits, man the Scottish and Irish in particular, trouble makers them lot. With any luck in a decade or two America can be purely American. /s
- rdevsrex 4y ago
  Ok this is classic hyperbole, but to pretend like 0 Chinese students are uses by the CCP, just like I'm sure the CIA has done similar tactics before would be naive.
  - lvturner 4y ago
    Let's be real, I fully expect for almost EVERY nation to be doing this - but it doesn't make a ban based on race alone any less of a terrible idea.
thyrsus 4y ago
Either this is sarcasm or an extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence.
- paganel 4y ago
  Not the OP but that's what will most probably happen in case of a USA vs China conflict, the writing is on the wall, just look at what the reaction to anything Russia-related has been in the West during this latest war.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Commodore63 4y ago

The cries of racism really ring hollow when they're talking about actions of a government, not a people or a culture.

gumby 4y ago
Wait, what? So Jim Crow or Apartheid were not racist because they were promulgated by governments?
- chaostheory 4y ago
  For context, in the article the mainland Chinese student association leader mentioned that by the mere mention of Xinjiang and the CCP’s culpability was seen as being racist toward them as Chinese people.
  - yorwba 4y ago
    Did we read the same article? William Wang, president of the program's student government body, drafted a letter that was signed by more than 80 Chinese students in the program and sent to the administration on Thursday evening, then sent to all program students on Friday. "We left today’s colloquium because we felt that the atmosphere in that room was extremely hostile towards us," the letter stated. "At that moment, we were not sitting in a classroom; we were crucified in a courtroom for crimes that we did not commit."
    - chaostheory 4y ago
      Yes we did. “we were crucified in a courtroom for crimes that we did not commit.” These students are confusing criticism of a government and leadership with criticism of an entire race of people. Either that or they’re being disingenuous. Saying that Xi Jinping and the CCP have terrible policies is not racist. For the record I am also Chinese. Since we’re on the subject, Jiang Zemin is more fit to rule. That’s something a lot of different factions both inside and outside of China can agree on. Xi Jinping is a disaster not just for China, but the entire world.

whimsicalism 4y ago

I think leaving en masse from a lecture/speech that you ideologically disagree with is likely one of the few permissible forms of protest in a university context.

ashton314 4y ago
It’s certainly better than many alternatives; however, universities are not meant to be places of ideological dogmatism; a better response to a lecture you disagree with is an open, rational debate/discussion.
kramerger 4y ago
Agreed, but the same group also do this > Some Chinese international students at universities in the U.S. and Canada have reported anti-Beijing speech to university authorities as a form of anti-Chinese racism, or they reported Uyghurs and Chinese dissidents on campus to Chinese diplomatic officials. Can you have freedom of speach while trying to take it away from others?
- sofixa 4y ago
  > Can you have freedom of speach while trying to take it away from others? Ah, the paradox of tolerance at work.
- k_sze 4y ago
  You don't know that they are the same group.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  This links to an article about Chinese students at GW. Do you mean to say this group of students transferred en masse from GW to Cornell or are you just saying they are the same group because they are both Chinese?
  - kramerger 4y ago
    There is a connection, the article discusses it. Please read it again :)

t-3 4y ago

What do you expect people to do? Abroad in a nation and culture which is quite hostile and dismissive of your own, most people would tend to be standoffish about anything that could be perceived as a slight against their home. American culture is and has been extremely biased against China, and not always with proper justification. Did anyone really expect to win over Chinese students with a harsh, aggressive, and, frankly, hypocritical, foreign policy stance interspersed with large amounts of good old-fashioned "dey tuk a jubs!" racism?

beebmam 4y ago
I expect people to treat others with respect. That's what I expect people to do.
thatswrong0 4y ago
Ah yes, the casual defense of cultural genocide based on the fact that other governments have done bad things too. And seriously, when tf did criticizing the obviously malicious actions of a government become racist.
- logicchains 4y ago
  > Ah yes, the casual defense of cultural genocide based on the fact that other governments have done bad things too. It's not cultural genocide. Forcibly sterilising people of a specific ethnicity is literal genocide.
refurb 4y ago
These students chose to come to the US for an education. It’s a bit arrogant to come and suddenly decide that the rules at home should apply in your guest country. I have zero issues if they want to debate and argue for their own country. But you don’t get to break the rules.

jp0d 4y ago

It feels like the history is repeating itself. The people of Nazi Germany probably thought they were doing the "right thing". These Chinese students have been brainwashed enough to believe everything their government says. Or may be even paid well enough to act like that!

jjcc 4y ago
The brainwashed cannot know they are brainwashed. So they feeling might be in the other way: They know the truth and you are brainwashed. I bet you and many HNer's won't be able to understand what I said. There is another saying: The new version of Nazi will be reincarnated as anti-Nazi which might or might not be true. Human has nature cognitive defects caused by the evolution not being able to catch up the pace of changing society. It causes conflicts, war and even self destruction. Edit/Fix:was Human has nature cognitive defects caused by not being able to catch up the pace of evolution.
- deltaonefour 4y ago
  Both are brainwashed. Basically all Americans are completely incapable of sympathizing in any way with Chinese perspective. Nobody agrees with the Chinese government but at the same time basically no one is also able to explain the reasoning from the Chinese perspective. The lack of the ability to disagree while at the same time understanding the Chinese perspective indicates a huge amount of bias. It's very easy to see this. Literally ask the person you responded why the Chinese government acted the way they did. What motivated them? Likely he will give simpleton answers like "power corrupts" or dictatorships are evil without ever understanding the complexity of the situation.
  - logicchains 4y ago
    >What motivated them? Likely he will give simpleton answers like "power corrupts" or dictatorships are evil without ever understanding the complexity of the situation. The motivation is very simple: the Uighurs started a separatist movement, and there's little the Chinese government hates more than separatist movements. Now, many governments in the world don't like separatist movements, but you don't see the Spanish government putting Catalonians in concentration camps and forcibly sterilising them. It's not brainwashed to believe forcibly sterilising people is unacceptable, it's basic Judeo-Christian/humanist values.

another_story 4y ago

Let these students keep embarrassing themselves and their country. The more people can see how the CPC thinks of others, which is exactly what these kids are expressing, the better. Shame and losing face will be the only thing that'll make the CPC change.

dgellow 4y ago
When did that ever work?
- agapon 4y ago
  Exactly. Reminded me of this tweet: https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1534969496724807680 https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1534969496724807680
  - kwertzzz 4y ago
    Thank you so much for sharing this. "And at the same time it is stated on behalf of Chancellor Hilter that these acts of violence [against Jews] by Nazis have been condemned and that official order haves been issued to prevent their recurrence" Telling X and doing !X is not a recent invention.
asddubs 4y ago
that's an attitude that seems to accepts the consequences for those being harassed as collateral without giving it much thought, though

picsao 4y ago

mise_en_place 4y ago

While I do sympathize with this student, you have to be careful when criticizing a hostile government you are a citizen of. Only in the United States do we have such protections in place to prevent the government from retaliating against the individual for voicing a critical opinion.

gattilorenz 4y ago
> In the United States, and many other countries, we have such protections in place to prevent the government from retaliating against the individual for voicing a critical opinion. The same cannot be said for countries like China, Russia, Belarus, etc. There, I fixed it for you. But it's also naive to think that the government cannot make your life impossible if it's really motivated to do so, even in the US, despite the principle.
- mise_en_place 4y ago
  Well, that's what the US is currently weaponizing the USD to do. Like when they froze Russia out of the global financial system, but France and Germany kept paying them for natgas and oil.
  - seszett 4y ago
    I might be wrong, but I think it's the EU (along with US and UK) that blocked Russia from Swift. Most EU countries keep paying Russia for gas and oil (as an exception to the banking sanctions) because they are really dependent on it, not because they don't want to weaponize the Euro. France is not much dependent on Russian imports though, but Germany is along with Italy, the Netherlands and Hungary mostly.
throw93232 4y ago
Is it allowed now to talk about laptop from hell? US is a joke!
- mise_en_place 4y ago

fxtentacle 4y ago

I know this way of thinking is horrible, but let me play devil's advocate for a while: What if the CCP puts Uyghurs into prison simply because the majority of Chinese citizens want Uyghurs in prison? 1. That would explain the behavior in the article. 2. That would explain why studies report that people in China feel like a democracy. Their government works in the way that benefits the majority of its people, so for some definitions of it, that would be a "democracy". 3. That would explain why some presumably Chinese citizens vandalize posters criticizing Jinping or the CCP. Try showing up with a "Trump is an idiot" poster at a MAGA rally ... and you'll see the same effect.

glogla 4y ago
Yes. China is like this because Chinese are like this, and they want it to be like this (for all possible values of "like this"). Same with Russia (who is invading Ukraine because Russians want it), Saudi Arabia (who is beheading gay people because Saudis want it) and other places. I have even heard following argument: it takes surprisingly little people to overthrow a dictator, so counterintuitively dictators have much higher support than democracies. In democracy, you need support of majority of voters (or whatever, depending on the voting system) while for a dictator to stay up (assuming no outside help) 90 % of people have to stand behind the dictator. A dictator is not someone who took power, but someone granted power by the masses as long as they do what the masses want. In any case, the real problem here is that the Western nations continue to let people "like this" (for all possible values of "like this" opposed to Western values) in and let them terrorize others, because money is more important than _not_ having people terrorized. Stop letting the pro-CCP Chinese study in the West and the problem solves itself. They are not in any way entitled to come here and hurt people.
- rajup 4y ago
  > it takes surprisingly little people to overthrow a dictator, so counterintuitively dictators have much higher support than democracies. That’s a very unique perspective I never thought of it that way. I wonder though if some or most of a dictator’s power come from having a tight control over means of suppression, from controlled media to the military. The latter 2 would seem to require a much smaller percentage of support than 90%

golemiprague 4y ago

I don't see what so special about that, there were many such protests against people from the right side of the political map or even people who just perceived as such. There are such protests against Israeli speakers or students and other issues where you got a billion of people on one side of the argument and only few millions on the other side. Sometimes it is just a numbers game and there are much more Chinese than Uyghur.

proudasian 4y ago

I am a Chinese-American, born and lived in California my entire life. The past few years has seen an explosion in racism and Sinophobia against Asians, against Chinese people in particular. The hate has motivated far more people to sympathize with the CCP than they could dream of. So I can understand the Chinese students actions here. Also, despite what they spoonfeed you on American media, the Chinese government is not committing genocide in Xinjiang - they are not killing people in mass. The amount of misinformation that's being spread is amazing, and scary, as it this is literally the same tactic used when they fabricated justification for war against Iraq with WMDs. The evidence we have is the Uyghurs (who are deemed a national security threat in China) are indeed put into internment camps - but this is more similar to Japanese internment camps US did in WW2 rather than genocide. I believe the West is threatened by China's progress, and the fact that China is an Asian nation. Westerners cannot fathom that Asian faces can lead the world. As a corrollary of this, China has done more to dethrone white supremacy than Black Lives Matter could ever have done. Also relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/v8k0p1/it_angers_me_that_racism_against_chinese_people/ https://www.reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/v8k0p1/it_an...

sumanthvepa 4y ago

As a Cornell alum from India , I’ve seen so many these sorts of political storms in a teacup. Especially, of the India-Pakistan and Israel-Palestine variety. If you’re a foreign student, just don’t engage with this stuff. You are a guest in a foreign country. So even if you disagree with the views of your hosts, keep them to yourself and be polite and gracious. Your home country’s government is more than capable defending its point of view in the appropriate fora. You are at Cornell to learn, not engage in political brawls.

xdennis 4y ago
That is very non Western approach. Just because you're foreign doesn't mean you shouldn't engage in political discourse. It's wrong to bully the victims of China, but not to verbally defend China, as messed up as it is.

Gnob 4y ago

> The big picture: Uyghurs and other marginalized groups with ties to China can face intimidation, state surveillance and threats to their family members in China when they speak out on U.S. campuses about oppression by the Chinese government. > Multiple people present at the event described the Chinese students' reaction to NurMuhammad as "jeering," "taunts," "snickering" and "booing.". As much as I love long discussions when it comes to technical topics I think this issue is pretty simple to solve, send them back to China. Is it unjust / unfair? imho, no it's not. Because they won't be prosecuted or hurt anyways in China, they can complete their education and live a happy ever after under the CCP they so much -obviously- support. And make an announcement, that any show of support for authoritarian regimes / bullying or any such behaviour would get them expelled. They can just leave in silence if they fear the CCP might actually hurt their close ones, there is no need to taunt or show any symbol of aggression. On the other hand, the Uygurs has been the actually oppressed ones, a Chinese person isn't going to die in China especially after the show they made in the University according to the article, they can go and support the CCP in China and they will probably even have more privileges than the average Chinese person. If they're going to support the CCP anyways, why not support it in China? at the very least, anyone acting with malice and a clear unexcused support for the CCP, such as taking down posters alone when nobody is watching etc, should be expelled and sent back to China. Even in the case of them being actually victims almost forced to preach the CCP, what good is it going to do if they're taunting others who are publicly speaking out in other parts of the world? If they do that in China they will actually be celebrated by the govt. so I see no point of letting them stay personally, unless they do speak out against the regime or stay silent and mind themselves.

throwrecession 4y ago

What I find really interesting is that if these were conservative students that did the same (for any topic) the other students would have gone ballistic, the school sanctioned them, and every Twitter warrior under the sun blasted them to pieces, but due to some magical reason, none of this happens when it comes to China/CCP (this is not the first time) Then people have the balls to claim that US liberal organizations don't bow down to China (or their money I guess)

gamblor956 4y ago
Conservative students have been doing this for a while now without much, if any, notice or sanction. Hell, they've been doing this on the UC Berkeley campus since I was a student and the Daily Cal doesn't even bother cover their protests anymore because it's the same old victimhood shtick conservatives have been playing at for decades. (But note that that the seniormost U.S. GOP senator is married to a CCP senior official and ask yourself which party is in bed with the Chinese government.)

momofarm 4y ago

looks like educated in west world doesn't make these folks more........democated? maybe one day chinese people will be like Uyghur people, hated by most of the world, force to leave their country, seeking a land to live, and this DID happens before. (Let's remind to people don't know history of china, lots of regime in mainland china are foreigner from outside, ex: 唐(dang), 元(yuan), 清(ching), and its close to be fully occupied by Japan in last centry. If not Japanese gov decided to hit Pearl Harbour, there will be no CCP dominated in mainland China now, and we may speak Japanese and rest of mainland China will be like a giant colony of Japan)

tintedfireglass 4y ago
Do you mean "tang" or is it "dang"