9 ms·

Cramer: Tech CEOs tell me they’re sick of spoiled Silicon Valley employees

41 points by crhulls 4y ago

spacedcowboy 4y ago
Tech CEOs can suck one. The power relationship has been far too one sided for far too long. Get used to the new reality where you have to pay more than lip-service to the idea of treating staff like human beings, and where a quick dosh-splosh to a PR company isn’t sufficient to wipe away a multitude of corporate sins.
- quantified 4y ago
  Some of the SV employees probably are sick of spoiled preening tech CEOs. Why can't the CEOs be as happy with what their employees get, who work to create the CEOs' wealth, as they are with providing for their entitled cost-center children?
- 0xy 4y ago
  What makes you think the average American SWE job can't be replaced by five Eastern European or Indian SWEs for the same price?
  - izzygonzalez 4y ago
    Because it hasn't happened
  - throw827474737 4y ago
    Argument comes often, still want to see that work out in practice. Universities (also western ones!!) are spitting out more and more SWEs with less talent... great talent still exists, and you need to find and retain it, and guess what, even the eastern european and indian talent jumps ship and payscale. And for just complete cheap outsourcing, proper spec, solving misunderstandings, and verification suddenly outweighs everything else.. So no, good talent is even not replacable by any n of cheaper ones, waiting to hear only one success story (and not just fail in every regard) for that.
- hjnmkm 4y ago
  I can't name a cushier job than a Silicon Valley one. If you work there and said this, then Cramer is right. You are spoiled.
jschveibinz 4y ago
A few facts for US developers to keep in mind: - India will have 5.2 million software developers by 2023. - Average salary of software engineer in India is $7,750 per year. - English is a primary language in India - Indian software developers are professionally competent. - All Indian software engineers will work for US companies remotely…from India
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- georgia_peach 4y ago
  How can I possibly compete with that?! Guess I'll have to become a greeter at walmart: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/software/311845-boeings-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-indian-programmers.html https://mybroadband.co.za/news/software/311845-boeings-737-m...
- Rantenki 4y ago
  Some additional items to keep in mind: - Those developers in India are 180 degrees out of phase time-zone wise. There is effectively zero overlap in working hours from the west coast of the US to India. Makes it hard to collaborate. - You get what you pay for. Skilled developers in India move to the US (or some other country where they have better opportunities). I've worked with some _fantastic_ developers from India, but they've mostly relocated. - Quantity != Quality, although quantity does have a quality all it's own.
  - alanwreath 4y ago
    Keep in mind: scarcity != quality either. That’s not to say that the US can’t fill the void, I believe that they are reluctant to do so because of the cost of US employees.
  - potamic 4y ago
    People working from India tend to work between 5pm-1am local time which is 5am-1pm US time. That's effectively till lunch which is a pretty good overlap. Bonus, you are left meetings-free for the other half so it is solid work time. It also leaves you free during the day rather than the night, so you get to do other things.
sriram_malhar 4y ago
Why is anyone still listening to Cramer? The fellow's a hack. See the Jon Stewart interview of him if you haven't done so.
- georgia_peach 4y ago
  It doesn't even take Jon Stewart to reveal what Jim Cramer is. Just read one of his books! The man brags about doing things normal people would be ashamed of.
olliej 4y ago
“CEOs state that they hate having to compensate according to the market, and would like someone to do something about the invisible hand of the market” [edit: apparently grammar is hard, have->having]
- missedthecue 4y ago
  doesn't everyone hate having to pay more than they want? You could say unionizing workers are just seething about the invisible hand too. Seems like a weak criticism.
  - olliej 4y ago
    That was kind of the point - only here instead of saying “we wish market prices were lower”, it’s framed as the people charging market rates are spoiled. You can’t use “free hand of the market” to protect yourself from regulation, etc and then attack your employees for also using said free hand of the market. Which was my point.
walrus01 4y ago
Cramer is a clown. I really think it's amazing people take investment "advice" from the show which is 98% hyperbole. I don't even know if the whole show and persona is just acting and there's a real Cramer who is like a normal, rational individual, or if he's actually like that when the camera isn't on.
- fritigern 4y ago
  I remember John Stewart destroying Cramer during the 2008 crisis. I'm suprised he's still around.
  - pridkett 4y ago
    Jon Stewart also famously went on Crossfire back in 2004 and delivered a viral takedown to Tucker Carlson and Paul Begala[0]. It doesn’t seem like he had much of a long term impact there either. [0]: https://youtu.be/aFQFB5YpDZE https://youtu.be/aFQFB5YpDZE
- silisili 4y ago
  Cramer is an entertainer, and it's probably fine if people view him through that lens. I used to watch him because he's fun to watch, even though I had no interest in investing at the time. I'd probably still watch if I had cable.
- calgoo 4y ago
  The Wall Street bet Reddit thread basically does the opposite of what Cramer advices and I’m starting consider doing so as well.
- msarrel 4y ago
  My mom used to call him "The Screamer".
tippytippytango 4y ago
Oh no, jobs with a living wage that let people have time and resources to self actualize. That's definitely not the point of capitalism, better kill it quickly!
anonygler 4y ago
Absolute raving nonsense from this guy, as usual. Supply and demand clearly favor the employees, and most tech ceos are barely maintaining the market share they have. Nobody is moving a company. They might open an hq for subsidies. Difference between dot com and now is every company is a tech company. Someone is always there to vacuum up the layoffs. So many companies need engineers and can’t afford them. Like the real estate, cut the price 5% and someone will snap it up. But income is actually still going up right now.
audiometry 4y ago
javajosh 4y ago
Spicy! But there is a story here. But it's about power, prestige, and how that's not supposed to go to the nerds who know how to fix the AV equipment, it's supposed to go to the jock, the politician, the salesman. It's probably very galling to a certain type of person that someone who cares about stupid shit like entropy, or instruction sets, or packet congestion (to pick a suitably random assortment of things) to be paid well, and worse, to be expected to be paid well. Who do they think they are?! (Technically speaking, the reason compensation is good is because we are the human components of the incredible shrinking machine that can squeeze a set of HCI into a state so small you can squirt billions of copies around the world effectively for free. And that is a valuable thing to be able to do, it turns out, for all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons.)
IceDane 4y ago
Even if what this clown is saying were true, it wouldn't really matter. These CEOs he's allegedly talked can throw as many tantrum as they want. If they don't pay the price, they just won't get any hires. Simple as that. "Tech exodus"? What is this even supposed to mean? Are the CEOs going to shutter their companies, fire all their employees and move to a cabin in the woods?
rramadass 4y ago
To paraphrase Rudyard Kipling; A liar, a flatterer, and Cramer were all hatched out of the same egg. -- From The Undertakers
barrysteve 4y ago
People with less options leave all the time too, you just don't hear about because it blends in with the poor. There's a lack of self awareness in the tech ceos in this article, they blame employees for leaving, so they leave too. Who's leading who here? The heirarchy doesn't have as much influence as it used to, being relatable is absolutely key no matter your position.
breadloaf 4y ago
Hello tech CEOs, employees are renegotiating their contract with you, this is called capitalism. You can try to fire them, but most probably you would disrupt operations of your company, so you won't do it on a mass scale. This is called leverage which employees have towards you. I know, it is strange to be on receiving end of capitalism.
anothernewdude 4y ago
Fewer options to jump ship? Bitch, remote work is already here. I'm in New Zealand, working for a NY company. You're already competing globally for employees. You can't move your company away from the competition. You can only choose to compete poorly.
techer 4y ago
Cramer + Theranos https://youtu.be/FurGeefL-LI?t=28 https://youtu.be/FurGeefL-LI?t=28
MrYellowP 4y ago
What self respecting person speaks to Cramer and why does anyone even listen to him?
yellowapple 4y ago
With all due respect: tech CEOs - and their mouthpieces like Cramer - can kindly eat an entire bag of dicks. If they don't like me treating them as disposable, then they should've thought twice before treating me as disposable - as they did, multiple times in my career. Golden Rule and all that.
- weinr0ck 4y ago
  Wow you summed up my entire career as a dev in like a paragraph. So polite too! Ha ha.
cvccvroomvroom 4y ago
I'm a MAANG SRE/PE. To be fair, I'm tired of absurd behavior and mindset of many unprofessional corporate employees in general not particular to any company: immature, self-absorbed, toxic positivity, BS, and low threshold for dealing with ambiguity. Edit: I don't know that there's a mass exodus from SF in particular except due to high costs for employers and employees. NYC, PDX, SEA, and ATX are expensive too. Also, Cramer has a big mouth and throws loaded language around like it's gospel. The Hannity of stocks.
phendrenad2 4y ago
Tech CEOs can complain all they want, but if they stay in silicon valley, I'll take that to mean the alternatives were worse.

41 points by crhulls 4y ago

Tech CEOs can suck one. The power relationship has been far too one sided for far too long. Get used to the new reality where you have to pay more than lip-service to the idea of treating staff like human beings, and where a quick dosh-splosh to a PR company isn’t sufficient to wipe away a multitude of corporate sins.

quantified 4y ago
Some of the SV employees probably are sick of spoiled preening tech CEOs. Why can't the CEOs be as happy with what their employees get, who work to create the CEOs' wealth, as they are with providing for their entitled cost-center children?
0xy 4y ago
What makes you think the average American SWE job can't be replaced by five Eastern European or Indian SWEs for the same price?
- izzygonzalez 4y ago
  Because it hasn't happened
- throw827474737 4y ago
  Argument comes often, still want to see that work out in practice. Universities (also western ones!!) are spitting out more and more SWEs with less talent... great talent still exists, and you need to find and retain it, and guess what, even the eastern european and indian talent jumps ship and payscale. And for just complete cheap outsourcing, proper spec, solving misunderstandings, and verification suddenly outweighs everything else.. So no, good talent is even not replacable by any n of cheaper ones, waiting to hear only one success story (and not just fail in every regard) for that.
hjnmkm 4y ago
I can't name a cushier job than a Silicon Valley one. If you work there and said this, then Cramer is right. You are spoiled.

jschveibinz 4y ago

A few facts for US developers to keep in mind: - India will have 5.2 million software developers by 2023. - Average salary of software engineer in India is $7,750 per year. - English is a primary language in India - Indian software developers are professionally competent. - All Indian software engineers will work for US companies remotely…from India

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
georgia_peach 4y ago
How can I possibly compete with that?! Guess I'll have to become a greeter at walmart: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/software/311845-boeings-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-indian-programmers.html https://mybroadband.co.za/news/software/311845-boeings-737-m...
Rantenki 4y ago
Some additional items to keep in mind: - Those developers in India are 180 degrees out of phase time-zone wise. There is effectively zero overlap in working hours from the west coast of the US to India. Makes it hard to collaborate. - You get what you pay for. Skilled developers in India move to the US (or some other country where they have better opportunities). I've worked with some _fantastic_ developers from India, but they've mostly relocated. - Quantity != Quality, although quantity does have a quality all it's own.
- alanwreath 4y ago
  Keep in mind: scarcity != quality either. That’s not to say that the US can’t fill the void, I believe that they are reluctant to do so because of the cost of US employees.
- potamic 4y ago
  People working from India tend to work between 5pm-1am local time which is 5am-1pm US time. That's effectively till lunch which is a pretty good overlap. Bonus, you are left meetings-free for the other half so it is solid work time. It also leaves you free during the day rather than the night, so you get to do other things.

sriram_malhar 4y ago

Why is anyone still listening to Cramer? The fellow's a hack. See the Jon Stewart interview of him if you haven't done so.

georgia_peach 4y ago
It doesn't even take Jon Stewart to reveal what Jim Cramer is. Just read one of his books! The man brags about doing things normal people would be ashamed of.

olliej 4y ago

“CEOs state that they hate having to compensate according to the market, and would like someone to do something about the invisible hand of the market” [edit: apparently grammar is hard, have->having]

missedthecue 4y ago
doesn't everyone hate having to pay more than they want? You could say unionizing workers are just seething about the invisible hand too. Seems like a weak criticism.
- olliej 4y ago
  That was kind of the point - only here instead of saying “we wish market prices were lower”, it’s framed as the people charging market rates are spoiled. You can’t use “free hand of the market” to protect yourself from regulation, etc and then attack your employees for also using said free hand of the market. Which was my point.

walrus01 4y ago

Cramer is a clown. I really think it's amazing people take investment "advice" from the show which is 98% hyperbole. I don't even know if the whole show and persona is just acting and there's a real Cramer who is like a normal, rational individual, or if he's actually like that when the camera isn't on.

fritigern 4y ago
I remember John Stewart destroying Cramer during the 2008 crisis. I'm suprised he's still around.
- pridkett 4y ago
  Jon Stewart also famously went on Crossfire back in 2004 and delivered a viral takedown to Tucker Carlson and Paul Begala[0]. It doesn’t seem like he had much of a long term impact there either. [0]: https://youtu.be/aFQFB5YpDZE https://youtu.be/aFQFB5YpDZE
silisili 4y ago
Cramer is an entertainer, and it's probably fine if people view him through that lens. I used to watch him because he's fun to watch, even though I had no interest in investing at the time. I'd probably still watch if I had cable.
calgoo 4y ago
The Wall Street bet Reddit thread basically does the opposite of what Cramer advices and I’m starting consider doing so as well.
msarrel 4y ago
My mom used to call him "The Screamer".

tippytippytango 4y ago

Oh no, jobs with a living wage that let people have time and resources to self actualize. That's definitely not the point of capitalism, better kill it quickly!

anonygler 4y ago

Absolute raving nonsense from this guy, as usual. Supply and demand clearly favor the employees, and most tech ceos are barely maintaining the market share they have. Nobody is moving a company. They might open an hq for subsidies. Difference between dot com and now is every company is a tech company. Someone is always there to vacuum up the layoffs. So many companies need engineers and can’t afford them. Like the real estate, cut the price 5% and someone will snap it up. But income is actually still going up right now.

audiometry 4y ago

javajosh 4y ago

Spicy! But there is a story here. But it's about power, prestige, and how that's not supposed to go to the nerds who know how to fix the AV equipment, it's supposed to go to the jock, the politician, the salesman. It's probably very galling to a certain type of person that someone who cares about stupid shit like entropy, or instruction sets, or packet congestion (to pick a suitably random assortment of things) to be paid well, and worse, to be expected to be paid well. Who do they think they are?! (Technically speaking, the reason compensation is good is because we are the human components of the incredible shrinking machine that can squeeze a set of HCI into a state so small you can squirt billions of copies around the world effectively for free. And that is a valuable thing to be able to do, it turns out, for all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons.)

IceDane 4y ago

Even if what this clown is saying were true, it wouldn't really matter. These CEOs he's allegedly talked can throw as many tantrum as they want. If they don't pay the price, they just won't get any hires. Simple as that. "Tech exodus"? What is this even supposed to mean? Are the CEOs going to shutter their companies, fire all their employees and move to a cabin in the woods?

rramadass 4y ago

To paraphrase Rudyard Kipling; A liar, a flatterer, and Cramer were all hatched out of the same egg. -- From The Undertakers

barrysteve 4y ago

People with less options leave all the time too, you just don't hear about because it blends in with the poor. There's a lack of self awareness in the tech ceos in this article, they blame employees for leaving, so they leave too. Who's leading who here? The heirarchy doesn't have as much influence as it used to, being relatable is absolutely key no matter your position.

breadloaf 4y ago

Hello tech CEOs, employees are renegotiating their contract with you, this is called capitalism. You can try to fire them, but most probably you would disrupt operations of your company, so you won't do it on a mass scale. This is called leverage which employees have towards you. I know, it is strange to be on receiving end of capitalism.

anothernewdude 4y ago

Fewer options to jump ship? Bitch, remote work is already here. I'm in New Zealand, working for a NY company. You're already competing globally for employees. You can't move your company away from the competition. You can only choose to compete poorly.

techer 4y ago

Cramer + Theranos https://youtu.be/FurGeefL-LI?t=28 https://youtu.be/FurGeefL-LI?t=28

MrYellowP 4y ago

What self respecting person speaks to Cramer and why does anyone even listen to him?

yellowapple 4y ago

With all due respect: tech CEOs - and their mouthpieces like Cramer - can kindly eat an entire bag of dicks. If they don't like me treating them as disposable, then they should've thought twice before treating me as disposable - as they did, multiple times in my career. Golden Rule and all that.

weinr0ck 4y ago
Wow you summed up my entire career as a dev in like a paragraph. So polite too! Ha ha.

cvccvroomvroom 4y ago

I'm a MAANG SRE/PE. To be fair, I'm tired of absurd behavior and mindset of many unprofessional corporate employees in general not particular to any company: immature, self-absorbed, toxic positivity, BS, and low threshold for dealing with ambiguity. Edit: I don't know that there's a mass exodus from SF in particular except due to high costs for employers and employees. NYC, PDX, SEA, and ATX are expensive too. Also, Cramer has a big mouth and throws loaded language around like it's gospel. The Hannity of stocks.

phendrenad2 4y ago

Tech CEOs can complain all they want, but if they stay in silicon valley, I'll take that to mean the alternatives were worse.