20 ms·

Why software engineers like woodworking

334 points by ZainRiz 4y ago

deanc 4y ago
I would love to get into woodworking. Unfortunately there are no classes available outside of working hours in my native tongue in the country I live :) I have dreams of building benches and such.
- bergenty 4y ago
  Just do it. YouTube is more than enough.
  - deanc 4y ago
    There is also the issue of access to equipment. Usually people onboard these skills at workshops as some form of training or internship. You can do real damage not knowing how to use those machines.
    - exDM69 4y ago
      You can do a lot of woodworking without dangerous machines. I am terrified of table saws and router tables and do most of my work with only hand tools. I used to go to a weekly class where I had stationary machines at my disposal, together with a teacher, and it is certainly helpful in saving time when prepping stock. But it is in no way necessary for woodworking and if you are a hobbyist doing physically small projects (boxes, decorative items, instruments, etc) the amount of time saved isn't even that great. A saw and a chisel and some elbow grease will go a long way.
      - neverartful 4y ago
        Indeed! I highly recommend the Youtube channel "Mr. Chickadee" to see some great examples of hand tools in action.
- ZainRiz 4y ago
  Most of what I know I learned from this guy: https://www.youtube.com/c/stevinmarin https://www.youtube.com/c/stevinmarin I started with just using a saw, and then gradually added tools based on what my projects needed
aeno 4y ago
There's a saying at my workplace that goes like > Something with wood It's a short, dumbed-down version of "screw it, I'd rather do something with wood instead" and every dev recites it every once in a while when they encounter strange bugs or other annoyances.
mikecarlton 4y ago
This rings very true! This 1000%: Once my wife learned of my plans, the requests for custom pieces started rolling in. Knowing that whatever I build has an eager recipient awaiting it is rocket fuel for motivation. And since it's my wife asking for it, it's easier to justify buying the tools I "need". I've grown my tool collection repeatedly this way :)
- moistly 4y ago
  Give home renovation a go. Endless tool purchases, all easily justified because hiring out the labour is so expensive!
  - hellisothers 4y ago
    But a VW campervan, whole new genre of tools required :D
  - fest 4y ago
    Exactly. Why purchase a new roof ventilator for 150EUR if you can spend 1000EUR for a small lathe and fix the ventilator that was broken?
moistly 4y ago
I like woodworking because it doesn’t easily forgive a mistake.
- klipt 4y ago
  Our school had a woodworking teacher who was missing part of a finger. Unforgiving indeed, especially with power tools.
  - mgkimsal 4y ago
    In 7th grade, our wood shop teacher lost a finger on the table saw, in the classroom. Not when I was there, and I'm not even sure it was during a class or with kids around, but she'd lost a finger, and that room was closed the rest of the year. A few years later, a different teacher also lost part of a finger on a table saw, just working on something in his garage. These weren't major factors, but have been partially responsible for me never developing a taste for hardware. I enjoyed metal shop in 6th grade for a bit, but... it got very loud, sometimes very hot, and the cost of doing anything wrong was great pain or death. Contrast that with "nerdy" computer stuff... I could sit, relaxed, and 'create' stuff myself (often just typing in code from magazines and books, but it was a start!)
    - CoastalCoder 4y ago
      When was that? I'm just curious what era of safety devices were likely available.
      - dionidium 4y ago
        The primary safety feature on a modern table saw is the riving knife, which helps prevent kickback. My old Craftsman contractor saw doesn't have one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riving_knife https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riving_knife
        evnp 4y ago
ljp_206 4y ago
I built HTML emails once upon a time - "in the trenches sending spam emails" is how I describe it. One can only send so many undesired trash missives that literally have no effect upon the physical world before you need an outlet. Woodworking allows me to use my skills, raw strength, and attention to detail to create things that look beautiful, are useful, and don't get deleted instantly. I got out of HTML email a long time ago, thankfully.
- colinsane 4y ago
  out of curiosity — since it sounds like you might have been working on promotional or unsolicited email — did you ever see responses from your emails? i’ve been responding to marketing emails recently — often CC’ing generic accounts like marketing@company, help@company, etc to try to reach actual humans in the loop. the process has been fascinating to me and the number of (intentional or unintentional) choke-points makes me wonder if — even in the more enlightened organizations i’ve worked in — i could ever stand a chance of understanding our email campaigns, inside and out.
  - ljp_206 4y ago
    These were largely upsell emails to existing AT&T customers, and I was a designer/developer for a marketing agency, so I barely had anything to do with the sending. Think like the largest of the large; audiences in the millions. So, no replies, but my grandmother got one of the emails my agency designed! That one made me feel queasy. Apologies if what I said was misleading. That agency laid me and over a hundred coworkers off; hence no qualms about divulging our primary customer.
quercusa 4y ago
If your work is abstract, making something concrete is very satisfying. I used to have a big yard, and loved spending an hour on the riding mower enjoying the clouds and the birds. When I was done I could see something that I had accomplished.
- machinerychorus 4y ago
  "Why would anyone do drugs, when they could just mow a lawn?" - Hank Hill
  - amelius 4y ago
    Can't buy a house with a lawn in this market, so I'll do drugs ...
birdfood 4y ago
I make my own surfboards for similar reasons. I tend to only code in my free time if I can't surf, or work on my next board (night time or no surf). Not sure how wood working it toddler friendly though?
donthellbanme 4y ago
johnwheeler 4y ago
This is great. I took up woodworking last year. The only thing about it that bummed me out is how expensive it is. I didn’t expect that. There’s a saying: “Why would I buy my wife a $500 dresser when I can build it myself for $1000?” Very true with wood unfortunately.
- defterGoose 4y ago
  This is what I hate about modern society. There are altogether too many voices urging the same thing: "Why would you do something to augment your experience of reality if it's inefficient?"
  - ehnto 4y ago
    The internet also makes it see like a consensus exists when in reality it is a tiny sample of the world. I am also constantly surprised by how many people give advice on a topic they have never actually partaken in, so this consensus may not even be borne of the real world.
    - oblio 4y ago
      > I am also constantly surprised by how many people give advice on a topic they have never actually partaken in, so this consensus may not even be borne of the real world. Hey, that's why I'm on the internet. I could hardly talk about woodworking to actual carpenters in real life, could I?
- pubby 4y ago
  I've managed to do it on a budget. Tools can be bought used and wood can be scavenged from the curb or dumpsters. Both have a large time investment to find, so the trick is to do it passively. I take a lot of walks, and when I see a nice piece of free wood, I take it home and make stuff from it.
- peter422 4y ago
  While it is true you can often buy IKEA furniture for less than the wood would cost you, for any “real” furniture made out of real wood, anything you build will be far, far cheaper than what you can buy. Of course that is valuing labor at $0 and cost of tools at $0. If you are making something like cabinet doors that are mostly labor and not much wood, you can easily make them for one fifth the cost of what you’d pay from ikea… but tons of labor!
melony 4y ago
Woodworking lacks rigor, too much "doing by feel" and too few carpenters have proper structural/mechanical engineering training. I recommend EE as a hobby for software engineers instead, RF and signal processing are just as concrete as woodworking and much more practical.
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  Poe's law in action
  - selcuka 4y ago
    Very true. I read the comment a few times and still can't tell if it's sarcasm or real (not that I have a problem with either).
- rpmisms 4y ago
  If you're serious, that's the point. We spend much of our lives doing rigorous work that's extremely logical, and unless you have a true connection to your code, there's no chance to "feel it out". Woodworking is that chance for many of us, even myself, building simplistic rabbit cages and ugly farm furniture.
- Chris2048 4y ago
  I'd say try wood-lathe work. make a box and it's easy for it to end up wonky is the measurements are off. But make a goblet and the curves are what you make it - not necessarily what you plan.. But it feels good to shave off that wood.
fasteddie31003 4y ago
I love wood working. I wish you could see my massive deck and outdoor sauna I made last year. It was one of the most fulfilling things I've done. It's also like meditation for me. You need to keep a clear head and maintain focus. In much of meditation there is a mantra you repeat to yourself. In wood working my mantra is the length of cut I need to make. I keep on repeating 15 and 5/8's (or whatever measurement I need) and I think it calms me down just as a meditation mantra.
gorgoiler 4y ago
I have a few hundred hours under my belt with a dining table, chairs, and even something with a roof to show for it. For me, a huge chunk of each project’s fun was planning. Going through my first two prototypes in Sketchup (rather than in real life) was a massive amount of fun. That part really was not so different to hacking code, really. The physical work itself is then completely different to software engineering. Nothing is simple — every step of the project presents some unique problem that you have to work around carefully. Maybe you forgot to include the width of the saw in a measurement. Or your stock has a knot in exactly the wrong place. Or you didn’t plan the assembly in the best way to optimise for clamping. Or you drip glue awkwardly and have to clean the first of six benches up before oiling. Or you want to add a shamfer in an awkward place to a piece you’ve already partly assembled. Imagine having to stop work every few hours to hone the edge on an IDE that’s gone blunt. Imagine running out of 8mm if-statements (dowels) and having to improvise some more so you can peg a project together. There’s no homogeneity with a natural product. Everything is slow and methodical with few opportunities to hack / test / prototype. You have to think and solve problems that you never thought would happen in a new kind of way because you can’t roll back or undo. Above all, there are many things you just cannot automate. Sanding up the frame of a pergola getting it ready for oiling is going to be O(n) at best, with only ever a single processor to throw at the problem which itself is hard bounded by mealtimes and hours-in-day. I love it because it’s not like software.
- hinkley 4y ago
  There's also the Home Depot Game, which is whether you can go to the hardware store once at the beginning of the project, and then not have to go a second (or third) time before you're done because you forgot something or you broke one of the pieces and didn't buy spares.
- gedy 4y ago
  I respect that, but tbh I get a kick out using Svelte repl to generate SVG that I use in my CNC machine to cut wood. Feels fun to use software for some non-business purposes.
- billti 4y ago
  > The physical work itself is then completely different to software engineering. It’s funny, but I often think how similar they are after doing a project. Maybe I haven’t written enough software for it to feel routine, but I often enjoy the unique and unexpected challenges in each that require creative thinking to solve. One interesting woodworking tip I carried over was “Know your tolerance”, i.e. does it need to be accurate to within an inch, an eighth, etc. I often apply that when working on software now (i.e. how “perfect” and bug free does this component really need to be?) People often say that “code is malleable” and you can change anything, whereas working with wood and tools is unforgiving. I actually think they’re comparable again, in that your time is what costs the most, and you can fix anything with minor materials cost compared to the time cost. Throwing away a piece of wood I worked on for a while and messed up isn’t much different than deleting a working branch that didn’t pan out. (Working with a contractor makes this more apparent. They’ll happily change almost anything after they’ve done it if you’re willing to pay for it).
TheRealWatson 4y ago
Fellow coder and woodworker here. I can relate to the article for sure and I'd add that in my case I make a point of avoiding using software or computer-assisted anything in my woodworking. So no Fusion 360, no SketchUp, no CNC, no laser cutters, no 3D printers. It sounds radical but it feels important to my mental health to keep my woodworking physical an analog as possible. Now, I'm still a power tool junkie so I'm not about to give up my table saw or planer.
- tartoran 4y ago
  Aside from being phisical I think it has also to do with real time play and the easier ability to enter flow state. And nowadays with all the dev stacks, frameworks, cloud platforms and all the other noise, with coding it has become harder reach that zone. I don’t do woodwork but paint and I imagine it registers quite close to woodworking. Enjoy the experience.
  - ZainRiz 4y ago
    No need to spend hours reading a poorly written manual first
- Gigachad 4y ago
  I tried doing things with no cad step and the result is just garbage. Maybe if you have a lot of talent you can pull it off but I ended up making mistakes and then being unable to recover from them.
- xupybd 4y ago
  I'm a coder for a furniture company. I can confirm making it digital takes the fun out of it. Well maybe it's the mass manufacturing side. However I've picked up some skills along the way. It's nice to be able to design and build small projects around the home.
- TacticalCoder 4y ago
  Same here. I love woodworking and got some tiny skills but I keep it totally separate from the digital world. Now: at times I wish I had a 3D printer and 3D modelling skills and could models some plastic pieces I'd need for this or that. Power tool junkie FTW too.
steve_adams_86 4y ago
Interestingly, woodworking is where I get to apply math, 3d modeling, drawing, and other things I dreamed tech would let me do. As a software engineer I don’t do many of the things I envisioned, at least not the way I hoped, so woodworking scratched the itches still. I got into woodworking as my first real job. It’s such a great pastime too, though. Just like this post says. Something I highly recommend if you find woodworking too expensive is to look into what you can do with basic hand tools and found wood. Try making spoons from green wood, for example. If you can get into it, it’s practically free and incredibly gratifying. There are plenty of cool things you can make and even gift to people without a single power tool.
JetAlone 4y ago
I like woodworking because it takes me away from the world of purely mental, metal things. It also doesn't hurt at all that it was the profession Jesus worked before fulfilling the Messianic prophecy. I also find the products of my work aesthetically pleasing or useful. I am very happy, grateful to be able-bodied to do any amount of woodworking. I hope everyone else gets to enjoy something like that feeling for even just a minute.
irrational 4y ago
Yeah, this is me. The main reason I don’t have any personal programming projects is because all of my free time is taken up with family and woodworking. I’m on sabbatical right now and I’m spending almost all my time in my workshop.
_jal 4y ago
I mostly play with metalwork as a hobby. But I did make some of my furniture, mostly because I couldn't find what I wanted (bed, workbench), or because I wanted to build them in-place (bookshelves, different workbench, some storage). The furniture thus far as been mainly functional - not that it is unattractive, but it is all very form-follows function. I rather like that in general, but also see my mistakes and room for improvement. But then I'm probably moving soon, and may well need to rethink and downsize furniture anyway.
cgrealy 4y ago
Funny, I started woodworking partially because I was doing less development (more on the management side). Woodworking scratches that "build something" itch. Plus, it has a high SAF (spouse approval factor). If I spend a Saturday writing a software tool, my wife is wondering why the lawn wasn't mowed. If I spend it building a coffee table, she's delighted :D
King-Aaron 4y ago
I hate working with wood, you can't weld it. I really like this article though, and relate completely. I do metalworking and fabrication (building race cars) as a side hobby because having a tactile, physical thing to tinker with helps cool off from the daily software work.
- neverartful 4y ago
  I suppose the closest you can get to welding with wood is epoxy (or glue) and clamps and waiting for it to cure?
d_runs_far 4y ago
All this and more. I'm fortunate enough that while I could afford to hire trades to do all the things I've done in and outside of our house in the last couple years (gutted/rebuilt kitchen & bathrooms, built phase one of a three phase deck/backyard oasis) I have to keep telling my spouse, yes, we could hire someone, but I really LIKE doing this stuff. Like really like. It's now got to a point that the requests, and "He can build that" comments to friends are not accompanied with the trademark eye roll. All the points the author hit ring true - planning, design, tool choice, etc have similar parallels to code and systems I work with during the day. But, I can cook meals for my family knowing that I built that space, then sit on the deck watching the wind in the trees knowing how many pieces of pressure treated lumber are holding me up and how it felt putting them all together. I never get that visceral connection using a web app.
bitexploder 4y ago
Machining and metal work is the same for me. And now we have a lathe and mill and lots of precise measuring instruments. It is fun to re-create things like stirling engines and steam engines and work your way through the technology of the industrial revolution. Machining and precision are more fun than wood work for me. It made wood working seem rather easy by comparison as the level of precision required is often less by an order of magnitude or more when wood working. If your goal is just to build useful things MIG welding is very accessible and with a bit of practice you can fabricate useful strong things with metal as well. Wood work and metal work can also be combined of course. Metal working and machining definitely gets more expensive than wood working though.
- unzadunza 4y ago
  What kind of mill did you get? I've been interested in one but I don't have that much space and I've heard that benchtop mills are not that useful, I hope that's not true since it would be my only option.
  - bitexploder 4y ago
    I have a lot of space, but check out Blondihacks on YT. They are quite useful, they just have limitations you have to respect. Just depends on what you are trying to do. (My mill is a Sharp LMV 49 DVS btw). Lathes are a better starting point for most beginners BTW. But really both are fine to start with if in budget.
lowbloodsugar 4y ago
Glue takes far longer to dry than even C++ takes to compile. Not a fan for that reason only. Ok, also, no undo button. Wrenching on my car, tho. That's fun.
- ZainRiz 4y ago
  Back when I worked on Windows, it would take ~24 hours for a full build/test cycle Close enough to drying glue
kansface 4y ago
You also see over representation of coders climbing and in the martial arts (particularly grappling) - I've done both myself. I'd do wood working if I had the space. I don't really know why its like this, except that they all make sense to me in the same way that writing software does. Any other reason is a just so story.
yalogin 4y ago
For me it’s simple. Woodworking is a problem that I can solve. I mean I am trying to meet market demand and producing a product that I know will be used. Now the part of planning, design, “procuring funding”, building the product and “selling” it is all a story end to end.
Aeolun 4y ago
Unfortunately the amount of space available makes my budget for tool storage zero. I can imagine I’d like woodworking if I had the chance.
seanhunter 4y ago
Why some software engineers like woodworking. I have been a software engineer all my working life, and I absolutely despise woodworking or anything that smacks of DIY. I find them unbelievably stressful and frustrating partly because I can see how I want things to be, they never work out nearly that good and I can never fix them.
- waiseristy 4y ago
  I would consider knowing when things are 'good enough' is a core skill in software engineering too. There's always time to take another swing at it later. Nothings perfect
  - seanhunter 4y ago
    Agreed, and I'm more than fine with that in software. My attempts at woodworking/DIY are definitely not "good enough" by any objective standards. Bookcase that fell off a wall shattering a glass desk and filling an entire room with books and papers laced with splinters? Yup. That was me. Shed with gaps inbetween the walls large enough you can see in from the outsides? Also me. School woodworking project to make an engraving that was so terrible it transmuted into an ashtray even though none of my family smoke? You got it. Me. Ikea bed assembly where I got so frustrated that my friends banned me from helping assemble it and did it for me even though it was my bed? Err I'm not proud of it, but it did happen. I could go on, but in any case. I don't like woodworking and I have plenty of good reasons not to. Perfectionism is not the problem.
    - asddubs 4y ago
      >Shed with gaps inbetween the walls large enough you can see in from the outsides? if it makes you feel any better, there's advantages to that too. If the wind can get through it, it's unlikely that moisture will be trapped inside. as long as the gaps aren't so wide that it's raining into the shed, anyway.
    - robocat 4y ago
      I try to evolve satisfaction at my own jobs badly done. I also admire anyone that has done something, even when they fail. There are uncountable skills to learn in one lifetime: there can be joy in accepting that one will always be crappy at most crafts. Celebrate tiny improvements. I think we all have an IQ of 60 in different areas of our lives: being kind to our low IQ selves and encourage the best out of our poor weird misfired brains, like we would any child. Encourage the disabled you, usually nobody else will help much, or worse, lots of people will meanly cut you down. Be kind to yourself, mostly say positive things and be constructive.
chops415 4y ago
If I wanted to get into woodworking while living in an apartment in a city, any recommendations on books, places to look, or videos on how to get started? I've been looking for a hobby to take myself out of the whole digital grind and find some type of stress releasing, but challenging hobby
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  Maker spaces often have woodworking equipment. In LA where I live, and also in MN where I'm from, there were several options. They usually offer classes if you don't want to start yourself. But you can learn a ton by looking up cabinetmaking or something else on Youtube. For a real trip, watch joinery -- it's mesmerizing. Other than that, I started by just picking up a saw and going to town, and quickly googling "How do I" to find out much more than I wanted to know. It pays to learn about the basic tools first. Table saw, Router table, Chop saw, Drill press, etc.
- nlnn 4y ago
  I got started (in an apartment in a city) using https://commonwoodworking.com/ https://commonwoodworking.com/ and https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/ https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/ from Paul Sellers. He focuses heavily on using hand tools instead of machines, so much more suitable for apartments. He's also budget conscious, and tries to show ways of achieving things without spending a ton on lots of expensive or specialised tools.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Already some good responses to this, but for something different. Have you considered some other hands on hobbies? Knitting, painting, sharpening knives, advanced cooking.
parentheses 4y ago
I feel like everyone romanticizes wood working.
jvanderbot 4y ago
Can confirm, I started woodworking this year. It's every bit as satisfying as they hint. It started as building project boxes for my Rasp Pi projects, and scaled up from there. In fact, when we were putting together a highchair, one of the legs was the wrong parity (we got two of Left leg instead of R+L), so I pulled it out to the drill press and drilled the proper holes. The company gave it to us for free for our trouble, which basically paid for the drill press. Also built small bookshelves for the nursery to match the wife's "Vision", coat hangers / key rack near the side door. All kinds of useful things!
Areacking 4y ago
[dead]
tylerc230 4y ago
I also think there is a precision aspect to woodworking which is similar to writing code. I like to take the time to make my cuts exact, make sure things line up properly etc.
- moistly 4y ago
  Tracksaw FTW!
DeathArrow 4y ago
If you have a kid, it's a nice hobby, provided you have the space to to use as a shop. You can involve the kid and he will love that. It isn't valid only for woodworking. Anything that isn't very complicated and doesn't take a very long time, will do. Even repairing old cars or bikes.
uwagar 4y ago
software engineers like fucking too.
- gunfighthacksaw 4y ago
  Put a bunch of 20-30 somethings in a room. Preferably with at least one attractive representative from each mutually compatible gender. Add a necessity for distraction free periods to build mental maps of software. Add a modern HR policy. Add an open floor plan to facilitate glances around. Invent a device to turn sexual tension into electricity. Power the office for free!
hooby 4y ago
Woodworking does come with a distinct lack of "undo" though... that's the thing that tends to get me :P
- xxs 4y ago
  nonsense! All my woodworking involve metal inserts (m4/m5), and standard machines bolts. It takes more time (but I switched to 5min epoxy, instead 24h one), but it's totally reversible, and I have proper stainless steel fasteners, and I can use threadlock (if I feel like it). However, while nice and all - there is not much 'like' part into woodworking.
  - convolvatron 4y ago
    I'm a metalworker and use this process in wood, but I always thought it was cheating.
    - xxs 4y ago
      in that case (cheating) all power tools should be banned, they use way more advanced tech than metal inserts + machine bolts.
  - hoytschermerhrn 4y ago
    Where do you get your epoxy? I hate the 24 hour stuff.
jl6 4y ago
I like my wooden table because it isn’t built out of smaller tables which are built out of smaller tables which are built out of voodoo incantations which are built out of something that occasionally causes the table to collapse into a pile of dust.
- mellavora 4y ago
  You mean hammer factory factories.
- tralarpa 4y ago
  On the other hand, you can discuss with your friends whether Makita or Bosch is the better language^H^H^H^H brand.
  - xxs 4y ago
    >>whether Makita or Bosch is You mean Hilti, right?
    - Intermernet 4y ago
      For many power tools yep, but not for all :-)
reolbox 4y ago
I am a software engineer and started making wooden table tennis blades. The only frustrating part is finding good woods, tools, ... In software you just need a computer and you can start being productive :-).
- unwind 4y ago
  TIL that a table tennis racket is made of a blade (the wood/composite/whatever substrate with the handle) and the rubbers which are the sheets of rubber that you glue (?) on. Thanks. As with everything, name brand blades can have prices that appear expensive to a complete outsider. [1]: https://www.stigasports.com/eu/dynasty-carbon-xu-xin-edition-table-tennis-blade https://www.stigasports.com/eu/dynasty-carbon-xu-xin-edition...
  - ragazzina 4y ago
    From your link >Very offensive 5+2-ply blade. It took me a moment to get this, the racket looked pretty pleasant to me. I wonder what makes a racket more offensive or defensive, would it be the shape? Or maybe the weight distribution.
    - oblio 4y ago
      Not shape, per se, they're the same shape for competitions (+/-). It's the weight, weight distribution and rigidity. A very heavy, stiff and top heavy blade would be very offensive, since it would generate a lot of speed but you'd be lacking in control.
  - oblio 4y ago
    And as with every sport, until you're at a <<very>> competitive amateur level (low level tournaments), getting equipment which is more expensive than say, 20-30% above the absolute basic level from reputable brands is a waste of money :-) Something like this: https://www.stigasports.com/eu/allround-evolution-table-tennis-blade https://www.stigasports.com/eu/allround-evolution-table-tenn... Can take you very far if you're just beginning. By the time you're actually tired of it (probably a few years into the future), you're knowledgeable enough to figure out if you want something more expensive and exactly what you'd like.
catchclose8919 4y ago
That's a long and thorough list of all I hate about software development and hope to fix (at least a bit of it)...
regularfry 4y ago
Personally I like woodworking because I get to hit things with a mallet. It's the small things, sometimes.
- neverartful 4y ago
  Maybe you would REALLY enjoy blacksmithing.
MrMan 4y ago
as a former woodworker and former many other things, I dont need spinning blades or load noises or things to clean up or mess up that cant be a easily refactored, thanks. the only trade I am still using is cooking
mothsonasloth 4y ago
Anyone here switched careers from software to joinery/carpentry?
dt3ft 4y ago
I'm not into woodworking, but give me a CNC milling machine and you can lock me up and throw the key away.
Teknoman117 4y ago
> What would I do if I was born a hundred years ago, before computers were invented? > And the answer is now clear: > Find something to build. My great-grandfather was born ~110 years ago and became a master machinist. Kept those giant steam locomotives functioning. Grandfather was a construction worker who went into civil engineering and two of his brothers made airplanes in their garages, father is an electrical engineer turned software engineer and now I’m in software as well. Hopefully the party isn’t over just yet. If I lived a hundred years ago I’d like to think I’d be building as well.
gitgud 4y ago
Software can often be intangible, abstracted and make you feel disconnected from the implementation. Whereas woodworking is highly tangible and physical, which can make you feel connected to the work. The same can be said for many other types of craft work too...
raister 4y ago
I can relate to this. I pick up woodworking a few years ago, before the pandemic, when wood was actually cheap. I chose to pursue a semi-'pure' manual hand tools only, and I'm feeling pretty satisfied. I embark on small projects, boxes, book dividers, etc., to disconnect from software development. If you want to pursue this manual woodworking, search YT for Wright Wood, Rex Krueger, Paul Sellers, etc. Craft masters.
immmmmm 4y ago
I did a lot of woodworking and lutherie during my PhD in High Energy Theoretical Physics. When you work all week in 20 dimensional non-Riemannian manifolds with torsion, it's really nice to come back to Euclidean 3D space and make wood chips the weekend!
jhylands 4y ago
I thought it was just me
iLoveOncall 4y ago
I would argue that software engineers like woodworking and other manual activities because of their differences with software engineering rather than their similarities. I like to take photos because when I press the button a photo is taken, it's not going to output an error that will need a debugger to solve. I like to draw because when I move the pencil on the paper, a line appears, instead of the paper having an error message that requires me to contact their support to solve. I also don't need to update my paper to be compatible with my pencil. I like those things because of the certainty that a specific action will lead to a specific result.
Razengan 4y ago
I’d think that programmers would love gearworking; building mechanical clockwork contraptions, translating code into the physical realm. Are there any active communities for that?
SpaceInvader 4y ago
I'd say it's not only woodworking, few of my engineer friends are working with leather, growing vegetables, fixing bicycles and one is making knives.
elcapitan 4y ago
I have a different angle: I love the idea of woodworking and metalworking and building houses and all those manual professional activities, but much more than actually doing it. I enjoy reading professional books about the theory and practice of those things which are both extremely old (thousands of years) as well as always adopted to the latest machinery trends. They're all grounded in reality and do useful things (usually). That's inspiring for me and a counterpoint to a lot of the short time shit we do in software development. I'd like to think that ideally I'd mostly work on software that is similar in use to what woodworking, metalworking and traditional construction produces.
- Syzygies 4y ago
  Ahh! Then you need a router table. You can make jigs for it the rest of your life, you don't need to actually use the table.
bitwize 4y ago
An early facetious definition of "hacker" is "one who carves furniture with an axe". Loyd Blankenship, author of the Hacker Manifesto, had an e-commerce site in the late 90s/early 2000s through which he sold furniture he made. There seems to be some connection here. I think it's just that hackers love making stuff, and woodworking is one of the most ancient and fundamental ways of making stuff. Materials and equipment are plentiful and easily obtained. A basic wood shop can be put together in a garage without special facilities. No special qualifications are needed, outside of time and practice. Almost anyone can get started, but the skill ceiling is high.
TrackerFF 4y ago
I really enjoy woodworking (building instruments), but like writing boilerplate code - there's a really boring part to what I do: sanding I'm pretty sure sanding takes up 90% of time spent on my projects.
- exDM69 4y ago
  Smoothing plane and cabinet scraper! There are times when there is no alternative to sanding but flat surfaces are a bit faster and certainly less dusty when you're making shavings.
tluyben2 4y ago
I used to like it when my grandfather was alive; he had this large barn with all the tools and he made everything by hand, teaching me from a young age. Unfortunately all his tools etc disappeared into some kind of family feud and it is too big a hurdle to start again. I enjoy electronics and robotics and cooking and walking as hobbies; not much time for other things. But I miss the smell of wood and work. Who knows, maybe later; not dead yet.
mauvehaus 4y ago
- mauvehaus 4y ago
  I've both missed the edit window and can't type my own business name. That should be https://GitHub.com/longwalkwoodworking https://GitHub.com/longwalkwoodworking
- samatman 4y ago
  I don't know where you're from where cabinetmakers and carpenters are overwhelmingly white. It's not the United States.
  - OrangeMonkey 4y ago
    Don't engage with people who try to shoe-horn a comment about race as the first thing they notice. Its not helpful to either party I think.
- oblio 4y ago
  I highly doubt the average carpenter in Botswana is a white dude :-)
- wagnerstuff 4y ago
  This is utterly astonishing to those who have been raised outside this race bubble. Gee, it's like you all find the slightest crack to start spitting "white vs others" rhetoric. It is extremely exhausting. It's 7.30 AM where I am at and I wanted to click on an interesting thread and this is the first comment.....
jeromenerf 4y ago
In my case, it’s more like “why woodworkers like software engineering?” Grandfather was a farmer, father a polytechnic teacher, … i have learned to work with wood, metal, cows, roofs, ducks, cars, … and computers. The last one paid more in our era. I still do the others when they make sense. I find woodworking quiet and beautiful. Metalworking, not so much :)
- bumblebritches5 4y ago
- neverartful 4y ago
  I think that metalworking can also be quiet and beautiful too. Of course, many power tools are loud and that's true for both woodworking power tools and metalworking power tools. I do metalworking (welding and blacksmithing) as a hobby and I find the grinders to be the most offensive. I also do a tiny bit of woodworking too and I find my circular saws, miter saw, and router to also be offensive for my tastes. I always wear ear muffs (for hearing protection) when using these tools and that makes using them much less objectionable. There are also many times that I will use hand tools such as files or rasps where another person might likely use a power tool. For the welding that I do, the loud parts are cutting metal and grinding. For the blacksmithing that I do, the only loud part is the hammering on the anvil.
hprotagonist 4y ago
We all know why: Woodworking is a subtractive medium: you build up large structures by irrevocably removing material from each constituent part. Who loves deleting code? Everyone who’s been around long enough, that’s who!
RickJWagner 4y ago
I get enjoyment from the opposite of point #2, 'Too many tools'. I've got a Shopsmith, which is a reconfigureable multi-purpose machine. It's a drill press, turning lathe, table saw, jigsaw, and several others. You turn different locks to swivel the machine around and attach well-engineered implements to make the single motor power a different woodworking configuration. As an engineer, it's fantastic. You get to make the machine do what you want. And you are rewarded for being careful and measuring things as you reconfigure, because the swivels and joints introduce the possibility of mis-alignment. Mis-alignment would show up in the finished product (the cut wood). So being fussy pays off! For programmers, it's great.
JoelSanchez 4y ago
The same applies to music production, in my opinion. You build a working environment of your own (with your choice of VSTs, presets that you have saved...), you definitely have way too many tools, you have a finite monetary budget (although the toughest limitation is your time and your sanity), you have the fastest feedback loop ever, and hopefully you'll have some users eventually :_)
- navbaker 4y ago
  "Ohhhhh, I see why I'm not making progress! I just need a new MIDI controller with start/stop recording buttons for Ableton, THEN I'll be able to finish this track..."
sandy_coyote 4y ago
This is a great example of how developer-centric the conversations are on this site. I get it -- hacker news, not woodworker news -- but next time I get frustrated with how it seems like the hacker news key to solve humanistic problems is to throw more tech at them, I'll remember how this article wasn't called "Why woodworkers like software engineering." The nth degree of this thesis would be something like "Why software engineers like going outside."
- Chris2048 4y ago
  There are a disproportionate amount of SWE that like woodworking. What is your point?
  - ABraidotti 4y ago
    It's right after the second set of dashes.
    - Chris2048 4y ago
      What has a rant about how SWE try to solve (too many) problems with tech to do with woodworking? Or that Woodworkers aren't otherwise into tech? lots of people like going outside - SWEs aren't disproportionate in this sense.
lsiunsuex 4y ago
For me it's been art. I started shortly after covid began. I started simple, cheap paint brushes, cheap paints, cheap canvases. Watched youtube videos (there are tons of tutorials) and tried. I post all of mine to instagram. It's fun to look back at how it began and how it's going. I got bored with it for a bit, then got back into it earlier this year. I changed my format. Still acrylic paints, but now I get 2ft x 2ft sheets of drywall from lowes precut, use drywall plaster or tile mortar (both have different effects) and brush the acrylic on or airbrush it on. It's to the point where I have to either start rotating out pieces or attend an art show and try to sell some. Just running out of wall space in the house. To attend an art show means I think my work is good enough that someone might pay for it and same as with programming, theres some imposter syndrome happening here. We'll see...
- knoester 4y ago
  Do you mind sharing the youtube channels which helped you the most?
  - lsiunsuex 4y ago
    no one specific that I follow - i just searched google and youtube for "acrylic painting tutorial" scrolled through until i found something i could do or was interesting. I didn't start to truly enjoy it until i stopped watching tutorials, took what I learned and made what I wanted to make honestly. But it took the tutorials to gain some skill to do what I wanted to do.
xxEightyxx 4y ago
Interesting! I actually grew up building residential homes and apartments with my brother and father. Later, took over part of the business ran it for a while before making the switch to software engineering. These days, I have my own little workshop for carpentry and welding when I'm not writing code. I think it's all about the fact that you're using your hands, it "feels" more involved and intimate than designing software sometimes and it's relaxing.
- malfist 4y ago
  Exactly. This is the same reason I garden. Physical work is just freeing sometimes.
petercooper 4y ago
This post reminds me of my dad. He was a software engineer but also a luthier (guitar maker) and talked about a lot of these things. Sadly I inherited absolutely zero practical skills whatsoever (I think I'm probably most of the way to dyspraxic) and find stuff like that hugely frustrating. The ability to refine, repeat, and be precise that computers bring is hugely comforting to me, whereas real world work is so messy and non-deterministic when I get involved(!)
- ZainRiz 4y ago
  > real world work is so messy and non-deterministic when I get involved Wait till you start writing code that deals make requests over the internet Or has to talk to hardware You'll see the real world :)
  - petercooper 4y ago
    Touché! I guess there is a better term I am looking for ;-)
marshallward 4y ago
I had no idea this was a thing, but I did notice Chris Lattner (of LLVM) is a woodworker. https://nondot.org/sabre/Woodworking.html https://nondot.org/sabre/Woodworking.html
uhtred 4y ago
I always feel a bit of a fraud because I am not at all into things like woodworking, tinkering, fixing, making. I don't even enjoy solving puzzles much tbh.
tobestobestobes 4y ago
woodworking ~= toy/side software projects carpentry ~= software engineering (within an organization) I think woodworking is attractive to software engineers because its akin to building side/toy software projects. Autonomy, building from scratch, requirements/AC's self-defined etc. Software engineering professionally is more like carpentry/trades. Carpenters work in teams, work on one specific part of a house and may not touch other parts of the house, do not design but mainly implement. You might even liken SWEs to tradesmen generally in that there can be a high degree of specialization: plumbers, electricians, finish carpenters, tilers etc being the devOps, secOps, backend, frontend etc. Woodworking != carpentry Again, a big part of the draw to woodworking for SWE is the same as the draw for a software side/toy project: it's more fun and fulfilling to build something in it's entirety, from scratch, and by yourself (especially if you do the opposite in your day job). Also, be wary of quitting your job to become a woodworker. Woodworking professionally does not necessarily resemble what is posted in this article or linked to. Many woodworkers start out as carpenters and learn on the job or as a side hustle to carpentry. Many woodworkers do not design the pieces they make/install. Many parts of the piece you are making could be prefab. The amount of time you'll be able to spend manually sharpening your hand tools will be limited. Grass is always greener: physical work is rewarding, but anyone who has done carpentry and/or woodworking their whole life will have infirmities, ailments, and maybe even disabilities caused by their career. There is woodworking fantasy and their is woodworking reality. And also, tastes have changed and most don't care to pay for quality woodwork. Odds are the wealthy homeowner is going to take your beautiful mahogany built-ins and paint them purple because that's what the interior designer asked for. And that's if your lucky. Most folks don't buy custom built furniture, they buy IKEA. By all means take up woodworking and quit you SWE job, but assume that you will very quickly dip into the fortune you amassed as a SWE. I think there should be more craft in this world, so I wouldn't discourage it outright -- but make sure you have the material means to sustain this woodworking fantasy.
adamhi 4y ago
I know two different engineers who quit their engineering jobs to be professional woodworkers (or finish carpenters, is that close enough?). The first one started taking classes in traditional woodworking, then those classes turned into 2-week retreats, then finally he just quit and started making fine furniture and little pieces he sold online. He said he liked it for more or less the same reasons listed in this article: planning, execution, control, satisfaction. I told the second engineer about the first one, after he told me he'd started getting into woodworking. I was laughing, like: "be careful, you're next!" and sure enough he was.
74ls00 4y ago
I've recently taken up basketry for much the same reasons, but it has the added bonus that you don't really need any special equipment and the cost of materials is pretty low. Just so satisfying holding a thing in your hand that software just doesn't have.
RobKohr 4y ago
You should take a look at Rex Kruger on youtube. He likes to focus on making his own tools, working with older unpowered tools, and looking at historical building techniques. He also is great if you are not looking to do a huge investment in woodworking, and just want to learn how to get by with working with some scraps: https://www.youtube.com/c/RexKrueger https://www.youtube.com/c/RexKrueger
rajen_s 4y ago
A lot of this comes down to getting into a flow state. https://www.headspace.com/articles/flow-state https://www.headspace.com/articles/flow-state For a lot of people, software engineering is a craft. It's not exclusively about completing a task as it is working on something, getting into a flow state and designing/building something elegantly for a specific outcome. Woodworking is no different really and probably why so many software engineers like it as a hobby too. Interestingly enough, I remember visiting and touring the https://www.lie-nielsen.com/ https://www.lie-nielsen.com/ showroom. The business has been around for years, but from what I remember, they mentioned developing a really strong community of developers/engineers over the last 10 years or so.
GuB-42 4y ago
I never noticed that trend. None of my coworkers do woodworking specifically, some know enough not to mistake wood chisels for screwdrivers, and they may actually be rather good at it, but it is out of a wider set of skills that may include masonry, electronics, sewing, mechanic, etc... the usual jack-of-all-trades hobbyist crafty kind who do stuff themselves. I can think of a few reason why software engineer appear to like woodworking. - They are overrepresented on the internet, me, a software engineer who mounted a shelf a few years ago is more likely to exchange woodworking tips on the internet than my granddad who was an actual 8 fingered woodworker. - If most of the people you know are software engineers, the ones who like woodworking are likely to be software engineers too, a simple statistical bias. - Woodworking is technical work, software engineering is technical work, it is more related than, say, team sports, dancing or organizing birthday parties (some software engineers do that too of course, but it is not something they are known for). - Software engineers earn the right amount of money for that kind of hobby. Woodworking is rather expensive, good tools are not cheap, neither is the space your workshop takes and the wood, especially now. But is not as expensive as racing cars and flying helicopters.
fmjrey 4y ago
Unless it's my tiny phone screen I'm surprised this video did not surface yet https://youtu.be/ShEez0JkOFw https://youtu.be/ShEez0JkOFw (Tim Ewald - Clojure: Programming with Hand Tools)

334 points by ZainRiz 4y ago

I would love to get into woodworking. Unfortunately there are no classes available outside of working hours in my native tongue in the country I live :) I have dreams of building benches and such.

bergenty 4y ago
Just do it. YouTube is more than enough.
- deanc 4y ago
  There is also the issue of access to equipment. Usually people onboard these skills at workshops as some form of training or internship. You can do real damage not knowing how to use those machines.
  - exDM69 4y ago
    You can do a lot of woodworking without dangerous machines. I am terrified of table saws and router tables and do most of my work with only hand tools. I used to go to a weekly class where I had stationary machines at my disposal, together with a teacher, and it is certainly helpful in saving time when prepping stock. But it is in no way necessary for woodworking and if you are a hobbyist doing physically small projects (boxes, decorative items, instruments, etc) the amount of time saved isn't even that great. A saw and a chisel and some elbow grease will go a long way.
    - neverartful 4y ago
      Indeed! I highly recommend the Youtube channel "Mr. Chickadee" to see some great examples of hand tools in action.
ZainRiz 4y ago
Most of what I know I learned from this guy: https://www.youtube.com/c/stevinmarin https://www.youtube.com/c/stevinmarin I started with just using a saw, and then gradually added tools based on what my projects needed

aeno 4y ago

There's a saying at my workplace that goes like > Something with wood It's a short, dumbed-down version of "screw it, I'd rather do something with wood instead" and every dev recites it every once in a while when they encounter strange bugs or other annoyances.

mikecarlton 4y ago

This rings very true! This 1000%: Once my wife learned of my plans, the requests for custom pieces started rolling in. Knowing that whatever I build has an eager recipient awaiting it is rocket fuel for motivation. And since it's my wife asking for it, it's easier to justify buying the tools I "need". I've grown my tool collection repeatedly this way :)

moistly 4y ago
Give home renovation a go. Endless tool purchases, all easily justified because hiring out the labour is so expensive!
- hellisothers 4y ago
  But a VW campervan, whole new genre of tools required :D
- fest 4y ago
  Exactly. Why purchase a new roof ventilator for 150EUR if you can spend 1000EUR for a small lathe and fix the ventilator that was broken?

moistly 4y ago

I like woodworking because it doesn’t easily forgive a mistake.

klipt 4y ago
Our school had a woodworking teacher who was missing part of a finger. Unforgiving indeed, especially with power tools.
- mgkimsal 4y ago
  In 7th grade, our wood shop teacher lost a finger on the table saw, in the classroom. Not when I was there, and I'm not even sure it was during a class or with kids around, but she'd lost a finger, and that room was closed the rest of the year. A few years later, a different teacher also lost part of a finger on a table saw, just working on something in his garage. These weren't major factors, but have been partially responsible for me never developing a taste for hardware. I enjoyed metal shop in 6th grade for a bit, but... it got very loud, sometimes very hot, and the cost of doing anything wrong was great pain or death. Contrast that with "nerdy" computer stuff... I could sit, relaxed, and 'create' stuff myself (often just typing in code from magazines and books, but it was a start!)
  - CoastalCoder 4y ago
    When was that? I'm just curious what era of safety devices were likely available.
    - dionidium 4y ago
      The primary safety feature on a modern table saw is the riving knife, which helps prevent kickback. My old Craftsman contractor saw doesn't have one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riving_knife https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riving_knife
      - evnp 4y ago

ljp_206 4y ago

I built HTML emails once upon a time - "in the trenches sending spam emails" is how I describe it. One can only send so many undesired trash missives that literally have no effect upon the physical world before you need an outlet. Woodworking allows me to use my skills, raw strength, and attention to detail to create things that look beautiful, are useful, and don't get deleted instantly. I got out of HTML email a long time ago, thankfully.

colinsane 4y ago
out of curiosity — since it sounds like you might have been working on promotional or unsolicited email — did you ever see responses from your emails? i’ve been responding to marketing emails recently — often CC’ing generic accounts like marketing@company, help@company, etc to try to reach actual humans in the loop. the process has been fascinating to me and the number of (intentional or unintentional) choke-points makes me wonder if — even in the more enlightened organizations i’ve worked in — i could ever stand a chance of understanding our email campaigns, inside and out.
- ljp_206 4y ago
  These were largely upsell emails to existing AT&T customers, and I was a designer/developer for a marketing agency, so I barely had anything to do with the sending. Think like the largest of the large; audiences in the millions. So, no replies, but my grandmother got one of the emails my agency designed! That one made me feel queasy. Apologies if what I said was misleading. That agency laid me and over a hundred coworkers off; hence no qualms about divulging our primary customer.

quercusa 4y ago

If your work is abstract, making something concrete is very satisfying. I used to have a big yard, and loved spending an hour on the riding mower enjoying the clouds and the birds. When I was done I could see something that I had accomplished.

machinerychorus 4y ago
"Why would anyone do drugs, when they could just mow a lawn?" - Hank Hill
- amelius 4y ago
  Can't buy a house with a lawn in this market, so I'll do drugs ...

birdfood 4y ago

I make my own surfboards for similar reasons. I tend to only code in my free time if I can't surf, or work on my next board (night time or no surf). Not sure how wood working it toddler friendly though?

donthellbanme 4y ago

johnwheeler 4y ago

This is great. I took up woodworking last year. The only thing about it that bummed me out is how expensive it is. I didn’t expect that. There’s a saying: “Why would I buy my wife a $500 dresser when I can build it myself for $1000?” Very true with wood unfortunately.

defterGoose 4y ago
This is what I hate about modern society. There are altogether too many voices urging the same thing: "Why would you do something to augment your experience of reality if it's inefficient?"
- ehnto 4y ago
  The internet also makes it see like a consensus exists when in reality it is a tiny sample of the world. I am also constantly surprised by how many people give advice on a topic they have never actually partaken in, so this consensus may not even be borne of the real world.
  - oblio 4y ago
    > I am also constantly surprised by how many people give advice on a topic they have never actually partaken in, so this consensus may not even be borne of the real world. Hey, that's why I'm on the internet. I could hardly talk about woodworking to actual carpenters in real life, could I?
pubby 4y ago
I've managed to do it on a budget. Tools can be bought used and wood can be scavenged from the curb or dumpsters. Both have a large time investment to find, so the trick is to do it passively. I take a lot of walks, and when I see a nice piece of free wood, I take it home and make stuff from it.
peter422 4y ago
While it is true you can often buy IKEA furniture for less than the wood would cost you, for any “real” furniture made out of real wood, anything you build will be far, far cheaper than what you can buy. Of course that is valuing labor at $0 and cost of tools at $0. If you are making something like cabinet doors that are mostly labor and not much wood, you can easily make them for one fifth the cost of what you’d pay from ikea… but tons of labor!

melony 4y ago

Woodworking lacks rigor, too much "doing by feel" and too few carpenters have proper structural/mechanical engineering training. I recommend EE as a hobby for software engineers instead, RF and signal processing are just as concrete as woodworking and much more practical.

pcthrowaway 4y ago
Poe's law in action
- selcuka 4y ago
  Very true. I read the comment a few times and still can't tell if it's sarcasm or real (not that I have a problem with either).
rpmisms 4y ago
If you're serious, that's the point. We spend much of our lives doing rigorous work that's extremely logical, and unless you have a true connection to your code, there's no chance to "feel it out". Woodworking is that chance for many of us, even myself, building simplistic rabbit cages and ugly farm furniture.
Chris2048 4y ago
I'd say try wood-lathe work. make a box and it's easy for it to end up wonky is the measurements are off. But make a goblet and the curves are what you make it - not necessarily what you plan.. But it feels good to shave off that wood.

fasteddie31003 4y ago

I love wood working. I wish you could see my massive deck and outdoor sauna I made last year. It was one of the most fulfilling things I've done. It's also like meditation for me. You need to keep a clear head and maintain focus. In much of meditation there is a mantra you repeat to yourself. In wood working my mantra is the length of cut I need to make. I keep on repeating 15 and 5/8's (or whatever measurement I need) and I think it calms me down just as a meditation mantra.

gorgoiler 4y ago

I have a few hundred hours under my belt with a dining table, chairs, and even something with a roof to show for it. For me, a huge chunk of each project’s fun was planning. Going through my first two prototypes in Sketchup (rather than in real life) was a massive amount of fun. That part really was not so different to hacking code, really. The physical work itself is then completely different to software engineering. Nothing is simple — every step of the project presents some unique problem that you have to work around carefully. Maybe you forgot to include the width of the saw in a measurement. Or your stock has a knot in exactly the wrong place. Or you didn’t plan the assembly in the best way to optimise for clamping. Or you drip glue awkwardly and have to clean the first of six benches up before oiling. Or you want to add a shamfer in an awkward place to a piece you’ve already partly assembled. Imagine having to stop work every few hours to hone the edge on an IDE that’s gone blunt. Imagine running out of 8mm if-statements (dowels) and having to improvise some more so you can peg a project together. There’s no homogeneity with a natural product. Everything is slow and methodical with few opportunities to hack / test / prototype. You have to think and solve problems that you never thought would happen in a new kind of way because you can’t roll back or undo. Above all, there are many things you just cannot automate. Sanding up the frame of a pergola getting it ready for oiling is going to be O(n) at best, with only ever a single processor to throw at the problem which itself is hard bounded by mealtimes and hours-in-day. I love it because it’s not like software.

hinkley 4y ago
There's also the Home Depot Game, which is whether you can go to the hardware store once at the beginning of the project, and then not have to go a second (or third) time before you're done because you forgot something or you broke one of the pieces and didn't buy spares.
gedy 4y ago
I respect that, but tbh I get a kick out using Svelte repl to generate SVG that I use in my CNC machine to cut wood. Feels fun to use software for some non-business purposes.
billti 4y ago
> The physical work itself is then completely different to software engineering. It’s funny, but I often think how similar they are after doing a project. Maybe I haven’t written enough software for it to feel routine, but I often enjoy the unique and unexpected challenges in each that require creative thinking to solve. One interesting woodworking tip I carried over was “Know your tolerance”, i.e. does it need to be accurate to within an inch, an eighth, etc. I often apply that when working on software now (i.e. how “perfect” and bug free does this component really need to be?) People often say that “code is malleable” and you can change anything, whereas working with wood and tools is unforgiving. I actually think they’re comparable again, in that your time is what costs the most, and you can fix anything with minor materials cost compared to the time cost. Throwing away a piece of wood I worked on for a while and messed up isn’t much different than deleting a working branch that didn’t pan out. (Working with a contractor makes this more apparent. They’ll happily change almost anything after they’ve done it if you’re willing to pay for it).

TheRealWatson 4y ago

Fellow coder and woodworker here. I can relate to the article for sure and I'd add that in my case I make a point of avoiding using software or computer-assisted anything in my woodworking. So no Fusion 360, no SketchUp, no CNC, no laser cutters, no 3D printers. It sounds radical but it feels important to my mental health to keep my woodworking physical an analog as possible. Now, I'm still a power tool junkie so I'm not about to give up my table saw or planer.

tartoran 4y ago
Aside from being phisical I think it has also to do with real time play and the easier ability to enter flow state. And nowadays with all the dev stacks, frameworks, cloud platforms and all the other noise, with coding it has become harder reach that zone. I don’t do woodwork but paint and I imagine it registers quite close to woodworking. Enjoy the experience.
- ZainRiz 4y ago
  No need to spend hours reading a poorly written manual first
Gigachad 4y ago
I tried doing things with no cad step and the result is just garbage. Maybe if you have a lot of talent you can pull it off but I ended up making mistakes and then being unable to recover from them.
xupybd 4y ago
I'm a coder for a furniture company. I can confirm making it digital takes the fun out of it. Well maybe it's the mass manufacturing side. However I've picked up some skills along the way. It's nice to be able to design and build small projects around the home.
TacticalCoder 4y ago
Same here. I love woodworking and got some tiny skills but I keep it totally separate from the digital world. Now: at times I wish I had a 3D printer and 3D modelling skills and could models some plastic pieces I'd need for this or that. Power tool junkie FTW too.

steve_adams_86 4y ago

Interestingly, woodworking is where I get to apply math, 3d modeling, drawing, and other things I dreamed tech would let me do. As a software engineer I don’t do many of the things I envisioned, at least not the way I hoped, so woodworking scratched the itches still. I got into woodworking as my first real job. It’s such a great pastime too, though. Just like this post says. Something I highly recommend if you find woodworking too expensive is to look into what you can do with basic hand tools and found wood. Try making spoons from green wood, for example. If you can get into it, it’s practically free and incredibly gratifying. There are plenty of cool things you can make and even gift to people without a single power tool.

JetAlone 4y ago

I like woodworking because it takes me away from the world of purely mental, metal things. It also doesn't hurt at all that it was the profession Jesus worked before fulfilling the Messianic prophecy. I also find the products of my work aesthetically pleasing or useful. I am very happy, grateful to be able-bodied to do any amount of woodworking. I hope everyone else gets to enjoy something like that feeling for even just a minute.

irrational 4y ago

Yeah, this is me. The main reason I don’t have any personal programming projects is because all of my free time is taken up with family and woodworking. I’m on sabbatical right now and I’m spending almost all my time in my workshop.

_jal 4y ago

I mostly play with metalwork as a hobby. But I did make some of my furniture, mostly because I couldn't find what I wanted (bed, workbench), or because I wanted to build them in-place (bookshelves, different workbench, some storage). The furniture thus far as been mainly functional - not that it is unattractive, but it is all very form-follows function. I rather like that in general, but also see my mistakes and room for improvement. But then I'm probably moving soon, and may well need to rethink and downsize furniture anyway.

cgrealy 4y ago

Funny, I started woodworking partially because I was doing less development (more on the management side). Woodworking scratches that "build something" itch. Plus, it has a high SAF (spouse approval factor). If I spend a Saturday writing a software tool, my wife is wondering why the lawn wasn't mowed. If I spend it building a coffee table, she's delighted :D

King-Aaron 4y ago

I hate working with wood, you can't weld it. I really like this article though, and relate completely. I do metalworking and fabrication (building race cars) as a side hobby because having a tactile, physical thing to tinker with helps cool off from the daily software work.

neverartful 4y ago
I suppose the closest you can get to welding with wood is epoxy (or glue) and clamps and waiting for it to cure?

d_runs_far 4y ago

All this and more. I'm fortunate enough that while I could afford to hire trades to do all the things I've done in and outside of our house in the last couple years (gutted/rebuilt kitchen & bathrooms, built phase one of a three phase deck/backyard oasis) I have to keep telling my spouse, yes, we could hire someone, but I really LIKE doing this stuff. Like really like. It's now got to a point that the requests, and "He can build that" comments to friends are not accompanied with the trademark eye roll. All the points the author hit ring true - planning, design, tool choice, etc have similar parallels to code and systems I work with during the day. But, I can cook meals for my family knowing that I built that space, then sit on the deck watching the wind in the trees knowing how many pieces of pressure treated lumber are holding me up and how it felt putting them all together. I never get that visceral connection using a web app.

bitexploder 4y ago

Machining and metal work is the same for me. And now we have a lathe and mill and lots of precise measuring instruments. It is fun to re-create things like stirling engines and steam engines and work your way through the technology of the industrial revolution. Machining and precision are more fun than wood work for me. It made wood working seem rather easy by comparison as the level of precision required is often less by an order of magnitude or more when wood working. If your goal is just to build useful things MIG welding is very accessible and with a bit of practice you can fabricate useful strong things with metal as well. Wood work and metal work can also be combined of course. Metal working and machining definitely gets more expensive than wood working though.

unzadunza 4y ago
What kind of mill did you get? I've been interested in one but I don't have that much space and I've heard that benchtop mills are not that useful, I hope that's not true since it would be my only option.
- bitexploder 4y ago
  I have a lot of space, but check out Blondihacks on YT. They are quite useful, they just have limitations you have to respect. Just depends on what you are trying to do. (My mill is a Sharp LMV 49 DVS btw). Lathes are a better starting point for most beginners BTW. But really both are fine to start with if in budget.

lowbloodsugar 4y ago

Glue takes far longer to dry than even C++ takes to compile. Not a fan for that reason only. Ok, also, no undo button. Wrenching on my car, tho. That's fun.

ZainRiz 4y ago
Back when I worked on Windows, it would take ~24 hours for a full build/test cycle Close enough to drying glue

kansface 4y ago

You also see over representation of coders climbing and in the martial arts (particularly grappling) - I've done both myself. I'd do wood working if I had the space. I don't really know why its like this, except that they all make sense to me in the same way that writing software does. Any other reason is a just so story.

yalogin 4y ago

For me it’s simple. Woodworking is a problem that I can solve. I mean I am trying to meet market demand and producing a product that I know will be used. Now the part of planning, design, “procuring funding”, building the product and “selling” it is all a story end to end.

Aeolun 4y ago

Unfortunately the amount of space available makes my budget for tool storage zero. I can imagine I’d like woodworking if I had the chance.

seanhunter 4y ago

Why some software engineers like woodworking. I have been a software engineer all my working life, and I absolutely despise woodworking or anything that smacks of DIY. I find them unbelievably stressful and frustrating partly because I can see how I want things to be, they never work out nearly that good and I can never fix them.

waiseristy 4y ago
I would consider knowing when things are 'good enough' is a core skill in software engineering too. There's always time to take another swing at it later. Nothings perfect
- seanhunter 4y ago
  Agreed, and I'm more than fine with that in software. My attempts at woodworking/DIY are definitely not "good enough" by any objective standards. Bookcase that fell off a wall shattering a glass desk and filling an entire room with books and papers laced with splinters? Yup. That was me. Shed with gaps inbetween the walls large enough you can see in from the outsides? Also me. School woodworking project to make an engraving that was so terrible it transmuted into an ashtray even though none of my family smoke? You got it. Me. Ikea bed assembly where I got so frustrated that my friends banned me from helping assemble it and did it for me even though it was my bed? Err I'm not proud of it, but it did happen. I could go on, but in any case. I don't like woodworking and I have plenty of good reasons not to. Perfectionism is not the problem.
  - asddubs 4y ago
    >Shed with gaps inbetween the walls large enough you can see in from the outsides? if it makes you feel any better, there's advantages to that too. If the wind can get through it, it's unlikely that moisture will be trapped inside. as long as the gaps aren't so wide that it's raining into the shed, anyway.
  - robocat 4y ago
    I try to evolve satisfaction at my own jobs badly done. I also admire anyone that has done something, even when they fail. There are uncountable skills to learn in one lifetime: there can be joy in accepting that one will always be crappy at most crafts. Celebrate tiny improvements. I think we all have an IQ of 60 in different areas of our lives: being kind to our low IQ selves and encourage the best out of our poor weird misfired brains, like we would any child. Encourage the disabled you, usually nobody else will help much, or worse, lots of people will meanly cut you down. Be kind to yourself, mostly say positive things and be constructive.

chops415 4y ago

If I wanted to get into woodworking while living in an apartment in a city, any recommendations on books, places to look, or videos on how to get started? I've been looking for a hobby to take myself out of the whole digital grind and find some type of stress releasing, but challenging hobby

jvanderbot 4y ago
Maker spaces often have woodworking equipment. In LA where I live, and also in MN where I'm from, there were several options. They usually offer classes if you don't want to start yourself. But you can learn a ton by looking up cabinetmaking or something else on Youtube. For a real trip, watch joinery -- it's mesmerizing. Other than that, I started by just picking up a saw and going to town, and quickly googling "How do I" to find out much more than I wanted to know. It pays to learn about the basic tools first. Table saw, Router table, Chop saw, Drill press, etc.
nlnn 4y ago
I got started (in an apartment in a city) using https://commonwoodworking.com/ https://commonwoodworking.com/ and https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/ https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/ from Paul Sellers. He focuses heavily on using hand tools instead of machines, so much more suitable for apartments. He's also budget conscious, and tries to show ways of achieving things without spending a ton on lots of expensive or specialised tools.
Gigachad 4y ago
Already some good responses to this, but for something different. Have you considered some other hands on hobbies? Knitting, painting, sharpening knives, advanced cooking.

parentheses 4y ago

I feel like everyone romanticizes wood working.

jvanderbot 4y ago

Can confirm, I started woodworking this year. It's every bit as satisfying as they hint. It started as building project boxes for my Rasp Pi projects, and scaled up from there. In fact, when we were putting together a highchair, one of the legs was the wrong parity (we got two of Left leg instead of R+L), so I pulled it out to the drill press and drilled the proper holes. The company gave it to us for free for our trouble, which basically paid for the drill press. Also built small bookshelves for the nursery to match the wife's "Vision", coat hangers / key rack near the side door. All kinds of useful things!

Areacking 4y ago

[dead]

tylerc230 4y ago

I also think there is a precision aspect to woodworking which is similar to writing code. I like to take the time to make my cuts exact, make sure things line up properly etc.

moistly 4y ago
Tracksaw FTW!

DeathArrow 4y ago

If you have a kid, it's a nice hobby, provided you have the space to to use as a shop. You can involve the kid and he will love that. It isn't valid only for woodworking. Anything that isn't very complicated and doesn't take a very long time, will do. Even repairing old cars or bikes.

uwagar 4y ago

software engineers like fucking too.

gunfighthacksaw 4y ago
Put a bunch of 20-30 somethings in a room. Preferably with at least one attractive representative from each mutually compatible gender. Add a necessity for distraction free periods to build mental maps of software. Add a modern HR policy. Add an open floor plan to facilitate glances around. Invent a device to turn sexual tension into electricity. Power the office for free!

hooby 4y ago

Woodworking does come with a distinct lack of "undo" though... that's the thing that tends to get me :P

xxs 4y ago
nonsense! All my woodworking involve metal inserts (m4/m5), and standard machines bolts. It takes more time (but I switched to 5min epoxy, instead 24h one), but it's totally reversible, and I have proper stainless steel fasteners, and I can use threadlock (if I feel like it). However, while nice and all - there is not much 'like' part into woodworking.
- convolvatron 4y ago
  I'm a metalworker and use this process in wood, but I always thought it was cheating.
  - xxs 4y ago
    in that case (cheating) all power tools should be banned, they use way more advanced tech than metal inserts + machine bolts.
- hoytschermerhrn 4y ago
  Where do you get your epoxy? I hate the 24 hour stuff.

jl6 4y ago

I like my wooden table because it isn’t built out of smaller tables which are built out of smaller tables which are built out of voodoo incantations which are built out of something that occasionally causes the table to collapse into a pile of dust.

mellavora 4y ago
You mean hammer factory factories.
tralarpa 4y ago
On the other hand, you can discuss with your friends whether Makita or Bosch is the better language^H^H^H^H brand.
- xxs 4y ago
  >>whether Makita or Bosch is You mean Hilti, right?
  - Intermernet 4y ago
    For many power tools yep, but not for all :-)

reolbox 4y ago

I am a software engineer and started making wooden table tennis blades. The only frustrating part is finding good woods, tools, ... In software you just need a computer and you can start being productive :-).

unwind 4y ago
TIL that a table tennis racket is made of a blade (the wood/composite/whatever substrate with the handle) and the rubbers which are the sheets of rubber that you glue (?) on. Thanks. As with everything, name brand blades can have prices that appear expensive to a complete outsider. [1]: https://www.stigasports.com/eu/dynasty-carbon-xu-xin-edition-table-tennis-blade https://www.stigasports.com/eu/dynasty-carbon-xu-xin-edition...
- ragazzina 4y ago
  From your link >Very offensive 5+2-ply blade. It took me a moment to get this, the racket looked pretty pleasant to me. I wonder what makes a racket more offensive or defensive, would it be the shape? Or maybe the weight distribution.
  - oblio 4y ago
    Not shape, per se, they're the same shape for competitions (+/-). It's the weight, weight distribution and rigidity. A very heavy, stiff and top heavy blade would be very offensive, since it would generate a lot of speed but you'd be lacking in control.
- oblio 4y ago
  And as with every sport, until you're at a <<very>> competitive amateur level (low level tournaments), getting equipment which is more expensive than say, 20-30% above the absolute basic level from reputable brands is a waste of money :-) Something like this: https://www.stigasports.com/eu/allround-evolution-table-tennis-blade https://www.stigasports.com/eu/allround-evolution-table-tenn... Can take you very far if you're just beginning. By the time you're actually tired of it (probably a few years into the future), you're knowledgeable enough to figure out if you want something more expensive and exactly what you'd like.

catchclose8919 4y ago

That's a long and thorough list of all I hate about software development and hope to fix (at least a bit of it)...

regularfry 4y ago

Personally I like woodworking because I get to hit things with a mallet. It's the small things, sometimes.

neverartful 4y ago
Maybe you would REALLY enjoy blacksmithing.

MrMan 4y ago

as a former woodworker and former many other things, I dont need spinning blades or load noises or things to clean up or mess up that cant be a easily refactored, thanks. the only trade I am still using is cooking

mothsonasloth 4y ago

Anyone here switched careers from software to joinery/carpentry?

dt3ft 4y ago

I'm not into woodworking, but give me a CNC milling machine and you can lock me up and throw the key away.

Teknoman117 4y ago

> What would I do if I was born a hundred years ago, before computers were invented? > And the answer is now clear: > Find something to build. My great-grandfather was born ~110 years ago and became a master machinist. Kept those giant steam locomotives functioning. Grandfather was a construction worker who went into civil engineering and two of his brothers made airplanes in their garages, father is an electrical engineer turned software engineer and now I’m in software as well. Hopefully the party isn’t over just yet. If I lived a hundred years ago I’d like to think I’d be building as well.

gitgud 4y ago

Software can often be intangible, abstracted and make you feel disconnected from the implementation. Whereas woodworking is highly tangible and physical, which can make you feel connected to the work. The same can be said for many other types of craft work too...

raister 4y ago

I can relate to this. I pick up woodworking a few years ago, before the pandemic, when wood was actually cheap. I chose to pursue a semi-'pure' manual hand tools only, and I'm feeling pretty satisfied. I embark on small projects, boxes, book dividers, etc., to disconnect from software development. If you want to pursue this manual woodworking, search YT for Wright Wood, Rex Krueger, Paul Sellers, etc. Craft masters.

immmmmm 4y ago

I did a lot of woodworking and lutherie during my PhD in High Energy Theoretical Physics. When you work all week in 20 dimensional non-Riemannian manifolds with torsion, it's really nice to come back to Euclidean 3D space and make wood chips the weekend!

jhylands 4y ago

I thought it was just me

iLoveOncall 4y ago

I would argue that software engineers like woodworking and other manual activities because of their differences with software engineering rather than their similarities. I like to take photos because when I press the button a photo is taken, it's not going to output an error that will need a debugger to solve. I like to draw because when I move the pencil on the paper, a line appears, instead of the paper having an error message that requires me to contact their support to solve. I also don't need to update my paper to be compatible with my pencil. I like those things because of the certainty that a specific action will lead to a specific result.

Razengan 4y ago

I’d think that programmers would love gearworking; building mechanical clockwork contraptions, translating code into the physical realm. Are there any active communities for that?

SpaceInvader 4y ago

I'd say it's not only woodworking, few of my engineer friends are working with leather, growing vegetables, fixing bicycles and one is making knives.

elcapitan 4y ago

I have a different angle: I love the idea of woodworking and metalworking and building houses and all those manual professional activities, but much more than actually doing it. I enjoy reading professional books about the theory and practice of those things which are both extremely old (thousands of years) as well as always adopted to the latest machinery trends. They're all grounded in reality and do useful things (usually). That's inspiring for me and a counterpoint to a lot of the short time shit we do in software development. I'd like to think that ideally I'd mostly work on software that is similar in use to what woodworking, metalworking and traditional construction produces.

Syzygies 4y ago
Ahh! Then you need a router table. You can make jigs for it the rest of your life, you don't need to actually use the table.

bitwize 4y ago

An early facetious definition of "hacker" is "one who carves furniture with an axe". Loyd Blankenship, author of the Hacker Manifesto, had an e-commerce site in the late 90s/early 2000s through which he sold furniture he made. There seems to be some connection here. I think it's just that hackers love making stuff, and woodworking is one of the most ancient and fundamental ways of making stuff. Materials and equipment are plentiful and easily obtained. A basic wood shop can be put together in a garage without special facilities. No special qualifications are needed, outside of time and practice. Almost anyone can get started, but the skill ceiling is high.

TrackerFF 4y ago

I really enjoy woodworking (building instruments), but like writing boilerplate code - there's a really boring part to what I do: sanding I'm pretty sure sanding takes up 90% of time spent on my projects.

exDM69 4y ago
Smoothing plane and cabinet scraper! There are times when there is no alternative to sanding but flat surfaces are a bit faster and certainly less dusty when you're making shavings.

tluyben2 4y ago

I used to like it when my grandfather was alive; he had this large barn with all the tools and he made everything by hand, teaching me from a young age. Unfortunately all his tools etc disappeared into some kind of family feud and it is too big a hurdle to start again. I enjoy electronics and robotics and cooking and walking as hobbies; not much time for other things. But I miss the smell of wood and work. Who knows, maybe later; not dead yet.

mauvehaus 4y ago

mauvehaus 4y ago
I've both missed the edit window and can't type my own business name. That should be https://GitHub.com/longwalkwoodworking https://GitHub.com/longwalkwoodworking
samatman 4y ago
I don't know where you're from where cabinetmakers and carpenters are overwhelmingly white. It's not the United States.
- OrangeMonkey 4y ago
  Don't engage with people who try to shoe-horn a comment about race as the first thing they notice. Its not helpful to either party I think.
oblio 4y ago
I highly doubt the average carpenter in Botswana is a white dude :-)
wagnerstuff 4y ago
This is utterly astonishing to those who have been raised outside this race bubble. Gee, it's like you all find the slightest crack to start spitting "white vs others" rhetoric. It is extremely exhausting. It's 7.30 AM where I am at and I wanted to click on an interesting thread and this is the first comment.....

jeromenerf 4y ago

In my case, it’s more like “why woodworkers like software engineering?” Grandfather was a farmer, father a polytechnic teacher, … i have learned to work with wood, metal, cows, roofs, ducks, cars, … and computers. The last one paid more in our era. I still do the others when they make sense. I find woodworking quiet and beautiful. Metalworking, not so much :)

bumblebritches5 4y ago
neverartful 4y ago
I think that metalworking can also be quiet and beautiful too. Of course, many power tools are loud and that's true for both woodworking power tools and metalworking power tools. I do metalworking (welding and blacksmithing) as a hobby and I find the grinders to be the most offensive. I also do a tiny bit of woodworking too and I find my circular saws, miter saw, and router to also be offensive for my tastes. I always wear ear muffs (for hearing protection) when using these tools and that makes using them much less objectionable. There are also many times that I will use hand tools such as files or rasps where another person might likely use a power tool. For the welding that I do, the loud parts are cutting metal and grinding. For the blacksmithing that I do, the only loud part is the hammering on the anvil.

hprotagonist 4y ago

We all know why: Woodworking is a subtractive medium: you build up large structures by irrevocably removing material from each constituent part. Who loves deleting code? Everyone who’s been around long enough, that’s who!

RickJWagner 4y ago

I get enjoyment from the opposite of point #2, 'Too many tools'. I've got a Shopsmith, which is a reconfigureable multi-purpose machine. It's a drill press, turning lathe, table saw, jigsaw, and several others. You turn different locks to swivel the machine around and attach well-engineered implements to make the single motor power a different woodworking configuration. As an engineer, it's fantastic. You get to make the machine do what you want. And you are rewarded for being careful and measuring things as you reconfigure, because the swivels and joints introduce the possibility of mis-alignment. Mis-alignment would show up in the finished product (the cut wood). So being fussy pays off! For programmers, it's great.

JoelSanchez 4y ago

The same applies to music production, in my opinion. You build a working environment of your own (with your choice of VSTs, presets that you have saved...), you definitely have way too many tools, you have a finite monetary budget (although the toughest limitation is your time and your sanity), you have the fastest feedback loop ever, and hopefully you'll have some users eventually :_)

navbaker 4y ago
"Ohhhhh, I see why I'm not making progress! I just need a new MIDI controller with start/stop recording buttons for Ableton, THEN I'll be able to finish this track..."

sandy_coyote 4y ago

This is a great example of how developer-centric the conversations are on this site. I get it -- hacker news, not woodworker news -- but next time I get frustrated with how it seems like the hacker news key to solve humanistic problems is to throw more tech at them, I'll remember how this article wasn't called "Why woodworkers like software engineering." The nth degree of this thesis would be something like "Why software engineers like going outside."

Chris2048 4y ago
There are a disproportionate amount of SWE that like woodworking. What is your point?
- ABraidotti 4y ago
  It's right after the second set of dashes.
  - Chris2048 4y ago
    What has a rant about how SWE try to solve (too many) problems with tech to do with woodworking? Or that Woodworkers aren't otherwise into tech? lots of people like going outside - SWEs aren't disproportionate in this sense.

lsiunsuex 4y ago

For me it's been art. I started shortly after covid began. I started simple, cheap paint brushes, cheap paints, cheap canvases. Watched youtube videos (there are tons of tutorials) and tried. I post all of mine to instagram. It's fun to look back at how it began and how it's going. I got bored with it for a bit, then got back into it earlier this year. I changed my format. Still acrylic paints, but now I get 2ft x 2ft sheets of drywall from lowes precut, use drywall plaster or tile mortar (both have different effects) and brush the acrylic on or airbrush it on. It's to the point where I have to either start rotating out pieces or attend an art show and try to sell some. Just running out of wall space in the house. To attend an art show means I think my work is good enough that someone might pay for it and same as with programming, theres some imposter syndrome happening here. We'll see...

knoester 4y ago
Do you mind sharing the youtube channels which helped you the most?
- lsiunsuex 4y ago
  no one specific that I follow - i just searched google and youtube for "acrylic painting tutorial" scrolled through until i found something i could do or was interesting. I didn't start to truly enjoy it until i stopped watching tutorials, took what I learned and made what I wanted to make honestly. But it took the tutorials to gain some skill to do what I wanted to do.

xxEightyxx 4y ago

Interesting! I actually grew up building residential homes and apartments with my brother and father. Later, took over part of the business ran it for a while before making the switch to software engineering. These days, I have my own little workshop for carpentry and welding when I'm not writing code. I think it's all about the fact that you're using your hands, it "feels" more involved and intimate than designing software sometimes and it's relaxing.

malfist 4y ago
Exactly. This is the same reason I garden. Physical work is just freeing sometimes.

petercooper 4y ago

This post reminds me of my dad. He was a software engineer but also a luthier (guitar maker) and talked about a lot of these things. Sadly I inherited absolutely zero practical skills whatsoever (I think I'm probably most of the way to dyspraxic) and find stuff like that hugely frustrating. The ability to refine, repeat, and be precise that computers bring is hugely comforting to me, whereas real world work is so messy and non-deterministic when I get involved(!)

ZainRiz 4y ago
> real world work is so messy and non-deterministic when I get involved Wait till you start writing code that deals make requests over the internet Or has to talk to hardware You'll see the real world :)
- petercooper 4y ago
  Touché! I guess there is a better term I am looking for ;-)

marshallward 4y ago

I had no idea this was a thing, but I did notice Chris Lattner (of LLVM) is a woodworker. https://nondot.org/sabre/Woodworking.html https://nondot.org/sabre/Woodworking.html

uhtred 4y ago

I always feel a bit of a fraud because I am not at all into things like woodworking, tinkering, fixing, making. I don't even enjoy solving puzzles much tbh.

tobestobestobes 4y ago

woodworking ~= toy/side software projects carpentry ~= software engineering (within an organization) I think woodworking is attractive to software engineers because its akin to building side/toy software projects. Autonomy, building from scratch, requirements/AC's self-defined etc. Software engineering professionally is more like carpentry/trades. Carpenters work in teams, work on one specific part of a house and may not touch other parts of the house, do not design but mainly implement. You might even liken SWEs to tradesmen generally in that there can be a high degree of specialization: plumbers, electricians, finish carpenters, tilers etc being the devOps, secOps, backend, frontend etc. Woodworking != carpentry Again, a big part of the draw to woodworking for SWE is the same as the draw for a software side/toy project: it's more fun and fulfilling to build something in it's entirety, from scratch, and by yourself (especially if you do the opposite in your day job). Also, be wary of quitting your job to become a woodworker. Woodworking professionally does not necessarily resemble what is posted in this article or linked to. Many woodworkers start out as carpenters and learn on the job or as a side hustle to carpentry. Many woodworkers do not design the pieces they make/install. Many parts of the piece you are making could be prefab. The amount of time you'll be able to spend manually sharpening your hand tools will be limited. Grass is always greener: physical work is rewarding, but anyone who has done carpentry and/or woodworking their whole life will have infirmities, ailments, and maybe even disabilities caused by their career. There is woodworking fantasy and their is woodworking reality. And also, tastes have changed and most don't care to pay for quality woodwork. Odds are the wealthy homeowner is going to take your beautiful mahogany built-ins and paint them purple because that's what the interior designer asked for. And that's if your lucky. Most folks don't buy custom built furniture, they buy IKEA. By all means take up woodworking and quit you SWE job, but assume that you will very quickly dip into the fortune you amassed as a SWE. I think there should be more craft in this world, so I wouldn't discourage it outright -- but make sure you have the material means to sustain this woodworking fantasy.

adamhi 4y ago

I know two different engineers who quit their engineering jobs to be professional woodworkers (or finish carpenters, is that close enough?). The first one started taking classes in traditional woodworking, then those classes turned into 2-week retreats, then finally he just quit and started making fine furniture and little pieces he sold online. He said he liked it for more or less the same reasons listed in this article: planning, execution, control, satisfaction. I told the second engineer about the first one, after he told me he'd started getting into woodworking. I was laughing, like: "be careful, you're next!" and sure enough he was.

74ls00 4y ago

I've recently taken up basketry for much the same reasons, but it has the added bonus that you don't really need any special equipment and the cost of materials is pretty low. Just so satisfying holding a thing in your hand that software just doesn't have.

RobKohr 4y ago

You should take a look at Rex Kruger on youtube. He likes to focus on making his own tools, working with older unpowered tools, and looking at historical building techniques. He also is great if you are not looking to do a huge investment in woodworking, and just want to learn how to get by with working with some scraps: https://www.youtube.com/c/RexKrueger https://www.youtube.com/c/RexKrueger

rajen_s 4y ago

A lot of this comes down to getting into a flow state. https://www.headspace.com/articles/flow-state https://www.headspace.com/articles/flow-state For a lot of people, software engineering is a craft. It's not exclusively about completing a task as it is working on something, getting into a flow state and designing/building something elegantly for a specific outcome. Woodworking is no different really and probably why so many software engineers like it as a hobby too. Interestingly enough, I remember visiting and touring the https://www.lie-nielsen.com/ https://www.lie-nielsen.com/ showroom. The business has been around for years, but from what I remember, they mentioned developing a really strong community of developers/engineers over the last 10 years or so.

GuB-42 4y ago

I never noticed that trend. None of my coworkers do woodworking specifically, some know enough not to mistake wood chisels for screwdrivers, and they may actually be rather good at it, but it is out of a wider set of skills that may include masonry, electronics, sewing, mechanic, etc... the usual jack-of-all-trades hobbyist crafty kind who do stuff themselves. I can think of a few reason why software engineer appear to like woodworking. - They are overrepresented on the internet, me, a software engineer who mounted a shelf a few years ago is more likely to exchange woodworking tips on the internet than my granddad who was an actual 8 fingered woodworker. - If most of the people you know are software engineers, the ones who like woodworking are likely to be software engineers too, a simple statistical bias. - Woodworking is technical work, software engineering is technical work, it is more related than, say, team sports, dancing or organizing birthday parties (some software engineers do that too of course, but it is not something they are known for). - Software engineers earn the right amount of money for that kind of hobby. Woodworking is rather expensive, good tools are not cheap, neither is the space your workshop takes and the wood, especially now. But is not as expensive as racing cars and flying helicopters.

fmjrey 4y ago

Unless it's my tiny phone screen I'm surprised this video did not surface yet https://youtu.be/ShEez0JkOFw https://youtu.be/ShEez0JkOFw (Tim Ewald - Clojure: Programming with Hand Tools)