4 ms·

Sadly this story could have happened with any big cloud provider. Ideally there would be more regulation around the ability of big tech companies to shutdown y

by rajup 4y ago

Sadly this story could have happened with any big cloud provider. Ideally there would be more regulation around the ability of big tech companies to shutdown your digital life through a mindless algorithm, with close to zero recourse. Unfortunately I don’t see anything happening unless someone really powerful (say a member of Congress) gets bitten by this.

indigochill 4y ago
The solution to this in my mind is self-hosting. Yes, right now that's the exclusive domain of tech nerds, but in theory there's no reason that an open source project can't come along and make this relatively easy for non-techies to set up for themselves (in a similar way to how, say, Squarespace made website creation easy). I think the real hurdle in adoption would be that most non-techies don't even register their dependence on big cloud providers as a problem yet. But I expect the day is coming. Similar to how Mastodon saw an influx of Twitter users when Musk announced he was intending to buy Twitter.
- charlie0 4y ago
  Filecoin and IPFS?
- tarboreus 4y ago
  SyncThing is actually really good. The main issue is integrations. A lot of mobile apps work with Dropbox but not with decent FOSS alternatives.
  - XorNot 4y ago
    Syncthing also has untrusted hosts support now: you can sync your files to a host you don't trust, and it keeps them encrypted on the destination.
    - throw7 4y ago
      Very cool. Looks like it's currently marked beta/testing.
  - Sakos 4y ago
    The main issue is you can accidentally nuke your own source directory and it's possible to do so in non-obvious ways. This has happened to me a few times (though thankfully had backups elsewhere).
    - pixelbro 4y ago
      SyncThing comes with a built-in feature to keep the last n versions of files around[1], for added peace of mind. https://docs.syncthing.net/users/versioning.html https://docs.syncthing.net/users/versioning.html
      - slaymaker1907 4y ago
        It only works though if you dedicate a separate server for sync.
GuB-42 4y ago
I don't think it is something that needs legislation. But it definitely needs more publicity. And if there is something that will bring down "big tech", I think that's it. "cloud providers" should be treated like something that can fail. We already don't trust hard drives, that's why we have RAID, we don't even trust RAID arrays, that's why we have backups, and we don't trust the place where backups are stored, that's why we have off-site backups. Dropbox (and Microsoft, Google, etc...) is also not to be trusted, just like your hard drive can crash or your servers can catch fire, Dropbox can delete your data. It is not the same mechanism (one is a chemical reaction, the other is a mindless algorithm), but the end result is the same: you lose your data. But once you take that into account, the value proposition of big cloud providers takes a hit. Often, big companies justify the premium price they ask with reliability. I mean, no one expects companies like Microsoft to go bankrupt anytime soon, and they certainly know about backups and redundancy, but what's the point if all it takes for your data to disappear is an artificial brain fart. Suddenly, the server in your basement doesn't look so bad in comparison, and neither are the smaller companies that actually have people you can talk to.
- sib 4y ago
  >> "cloud providers" should be treated like something that can fail. We already don't trust hard drives, that's why we have RAID "Can fail" is certainly true, just like a hard drive can fail. But we'd all be rightfully upset if someone at Western Digital decided to some to our home and proactively delete files from our HDD.
- sofixa 4y ago
  > I don't think it is something that needs legislation Why not?
- Teever 4y ago
  Something like this definitely needs legislation. The whole concept of ToS needs to be overhauled with vast amounts of practice that is currently considered acceptable thrown right in the fucking trash. The idea that companies can change their ToS on a whim every day and push out walls of text that no one reads and everyone clicks through is insane. Why can't we modify the terms of agreement? Let's start with that law, all ToS interfaces must include an interface for users to upload their own modifications and companies must have a human interpret them (not some shitty 'ai') and decide to accept them in a reasonable time frame, and if the company chooses to decline them they cannot ban the user from the service for this, the last ToS that they accepted must be the one that their interaction with the customer is conducted under. The entire process must be auditable by other by both sides and a neutral third party. I'm sick of big companies hiding behind an opaque wall of bullshit, if this was a small town dispute between two individuals this would be transparently settled one way or another and that's exactly how it should be on the internet. The laws haven't kept up with the times, and they haven't kept up with the creative ways people with money try to fuck over those without.
bell-cot 4y ago
+1...but don't expect "$VVVIP bitten by this..." to change anything. Big cloud providers doubtless have Secret VIP Customer Service departments, to avoid that problem.
dubswithus 4y ago
I've got 776 gigs of pirated TV in my Dropbox. Am I in danger?
- rolph 4y ago
  in a number of ways yes, depending on the amount of 3rd party attention devoted to the files, in my neck of the woods a 1 terabyte drive is worth ~ 100$
  - copperx 4y ago
    That's very expensive. Where do you live?
    - rolph 4y ago
      somewhat north...
    - antifa 4y ago
      It's cheaper than 1 year of dropbox.

by rajup 4y ago

indigochill 4y ago

The solution to this in my mind is self-hosting. Yes, right now that's the exclusive domain of tech nerds, but in theory there's no reason that an open source project can't come along and make this relatively easy for non-techies to set up for themselves (in a similar way to how, say, Squarespace made website creation easy). I think the real hurdle in adoption would be that most non-techies don't even register their dependence on big cloud providers as a problem yet. But I expect the day is coming. Similar to how Mastodon saw an influx of Twitter users when Musk announced he was intending to buy Twitter.

charlie0 4y ago
Filecoin and IPFS?
tarboreus 4y ago
SyncThing is actually really good. The main issue is integrations. A lot of mobile apps work with Dropbox but not with decent FOSS alternatives.
- XorNot 4y ago
  Syncthing also has untrusted hosts support now: you can sync your files to a host you don't trust, and it keeps them encrypted on the destination.
  - throw7 4y ago
    Very cool. Looks like it's currently marked beta/testing.
- Sakos 4y ago
  The main issue is you can accidentally nuke your own source directory and it's possible to do so in non-obvious ways. This has happened to me a few times (though thankfully had backups elsewhere).
  - pixelbro 4y ago
    SyncThing comes with a built-in feature to keep the last n versions of files around[1], for added peace of mind. https://docs.syncthing.net/users/versioning.html https://docs.syncthing.net/users/versioning.html
    - slaymaker1907 4y ago
      It only works though if you dedicate a separate server for sync.

GuB-42 4y ago

I don't think it is something that needs legislation. But it definitely needs more publicity. And if there is something that will bring down "big tech", I think that's it. "cloud providers" should be treated like something that can fail. We already don't trust hard drives, that's why we have RAID, we don't even trust RAID arrays, that's why we have backups, and we don't trust the place where backups are stored, that's why we have off-site backups. Dropbox (and Microsoft, Google, etc...) is also not to be trusted, just like your hard drive can crash or your servers can catch fire, Dropbox can delete your data. It is not the same mechanism (one is a chemical reaction, the other is a mindless algorithm), but the end result is the same: you lose your data. But once you take that into account, the value proposition of big cloud providers takes a hit. Often, big companies justify the premium price they ask with reliability. I mean, no one expects companies like Microsoft to go bankrupt anytime soon, and they certainly know about backups and redundancy, but what's the point if all it takes for your data to disappear is an artificial brain fart. Suddenly, the server in your basement doesn't look so bad in comparison, and neither are the smaller companies that actually have people you can talk to.

sib 4y ago
>> "cloud providers" should be treated like something that can fail. We already don't trust hard drives, that's why we have RAID "Can fail" is certainly true, just like a hard drive can fail. But we'd all be rightfully upset if someone at Western Digital decided to some to our home and proactively delete files from our HDD.
sofixa 4y ago
> I don't think it is something that needs legislation Why not?
Teever 4y ago
Something like this definitely needs legislation. The whole concept of ToS needs to be overhauled with vast amounts of practice that is currently considered acceptable thrown right in the fucking trash. The idea that companies can change their ToS on a whim every day and push out walls of text that no one reads and everyone clicks through is insane. Why can't we modify the terms of agreement? Let's start with that law, all ToS interfaces must include an interface for users to upload their own modifications and companies must have a human interpret them (not some shitty 'ai') and decide to accept them in a reasonable time frame, and if the company chooses to decline them they cannot ban the user from the service for this, the last ToS that they accepted must be the one that their interaction with the customer is conducted under. The entire process must be auditable by other by both sides and a neutral third party. I'm sick of big companies hiding behind an opaque wall of bullshit, if this was a small town dispute between two individuals this would be transparently settled one way or another and that's exactly how it should be on the internet. The laws haven't kept up with the times, and they haven't kept up with the creative ways people with money try to fuck over those without.

bell-cot 4y ago

+1...but don't expect "$VVVIP bitten by this..." to change anything. Big cloud providers doubtless have Secret VIP Customer Service departments, to avoid that problem.

dubswithus 4y ago

I've got 776 gigs of pirated TV in my Dropbox. Am I in danger?

rolph 4y ago
in a number of ways yes, depending on the amount of 3rd party attention devoted to the files, in my neck of the woods a 1 terabyte drive is worth ~ 100$
- copperx 4y ago
  That's very expensive. Where do you live?
  - rolph 4y ago
    somewhat north...
  - antifa 4y ago
    It's cheaper than 1 year of dropbox.