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Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

129 points by aab1d 15y ago

moomin 15y ago
Apple never set out to make the most smartphones, it just kind of happened. They set out to make the most money. Samsung are a fair distance from achieving that.
- the100rabh 15y ago
  why do I smell a loser mactard here. I think u should just appreciate that Samsung has made a difference in the smartphone market and has become the Market leader. You are the guys who make others feel that its really a big deal.
- pyre 15y ago
  Well, Apple fans really did set the stage for these sort of comparisons with all the hand waving about how the iPhone would be the only smart phone in the future. And their continuous need to point out market share numbers in their Internet "my favorite company can beat up your favorite company" fights.
  - jamesrom 15y ago
    Apple has never been on top in market share... I don't think any Apple fan would point to market share as an indicator of success.
    - ZeroGravitas 15y ago
      Never underestimate the power of double-think. I can't believe that Gruber (for example) would claim with a straight face "Money is how you keep score" after years of attacking Microsoft who massively won on both marketshare and profitshare on the desktop. (They've fallen slightly behind in profit the last year or so, but take any longer period and they murder Apple. By Gruber's own metric this means Apple's computers sucked, and in that case why should we be excited about their phone?)
      - Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
        This is true but it's something both sides are guilty of. The most vocal Android proponent I know carps on about market share incessantly as a measure of it's superiority despite having spent the best part of two decades reacting to Window's dominance with the old "eat shit, a billion flies can't be wrong". The truth is that both sides have some interesting challenges ahead. Google have just bought a device maker (who just posted a significant loss) which could very realistically harm it's relationships with other manufactures (including Samsung). Meanwhile Samsung - the best Android phone manufacturer right now - are also now signed up to provide Windows Phones and are investing in Bada. And pretty much all Android phone manufacturers are operating on pretty thin margins because of the competition. Plus Kindle and others are starting to fragment what Android means - are app developers going to be held back by having to keep things running on the far older Fire version if they want to access what is likely to be a massive market? Oh, and those pesky little patents suits aren't going anywhere in a hurry and are likely to be, at the very least, expensive. On the upside it now has a mass market advantage and a lot of people betting on it. Meanwhile Apple's previous unrivalled dominance in terms of product quality has significantly eroded (if not disappeared altogether) and it's iPod -> iPhone upgrade path is dropping away as the iPod ceases to be a big seller (though the Mac is now becoming mass market which at the very least boosts the Apple brand and awareness). The iPad is still the undisputed king of tablets but that's likely to at the very least come under more sustained pressure than it has so far as further iterations of Android tablets improve. Plus the potential for a post-Jobs psychological hit exists and, those patent suits aren't just running one way. And both of them are going to be threatened by Nokia and MS getting their shit together with a couple of nice looking phones, a billion dollar marketing budget and a shed load of brand recognition in the mass market space. Bottom line - I don't think anyone should carp right now, this thing is a long way from playing out.
        ZeroGravitas 15y ago
        Your post is all very reasonable, but do you not realise that this quote ... "And pretty much all Android phone manufacturers are operating on pretty thin margins because of the competition." ... simply isn't true, and the only reason you think that is because it has become an accepted truth in the Apple echo-chamber? (Mostly by intentionally fudging between mobile phone and smartphone numbers depending on whichever makes Apple sound better).
    - angus77 15y ago
      Tablets?
- ZeroGravitas 15y ago
  "They set out to make the most money." It really worries me that there's a new breed of Apple fan that actually believes this. In reality they set out to build the best device (for affluent, white, middle-aged, American males with a taste for minimalism) and semi-accidentally became fashionable status symbols. The crowing about making the most money was just fanboy bragging because every other stat they bragged about was slowly being eclipsed by Android. Fanboy rule number one is to make far too big a deal about anything unique about you or your enemy. Some people seem to have latched onto profit margins and run wild with it. This has gotten to the point where I'm half expecting, even here on HN, someone to come along and claim that Samsung "isn't making any money" from selling these phones.
  - jamesrom 15y ago
    So you're upset that Apple fans are claiming that Apple set out to make a lot of money instead of claiming they set out to make the best device? That sounds backwards to me.
    - ZeroGravitas 15y ago
      I like a lot of things about Apple, and I've bought a lot of their products and often recommended them to friends (still do, only recently bought my parents an iPad). I can honestly say that their profits have never been something I've been impressed by, and indeed, for most of that time they didn't have impressive profits, so if I was impressed by profits I would have bought and recommended Windows PCs instead.
      - sjwright 15y ago
        > > > > They set out to make the most money > > > they set out to build the best device Surely it's equal parts of both: Apple try to make the best products (in order to) make the most money (in order to) make the best products (in order to) make the most money (in order to) make the best products (in order to) etc etc... In the sandpit where Apple plays, you can't have one without the other. A beautiful symbiosis of business and craft.
- cageface 15y ago
  However, if these trends continue in the longer term Apple could start to suffer from some of the same negative network effects that plagued them in the PC era. If their market share slips too far people will start perceiving them again as a niche, luxury brand too different from what their friends and family use.
- shawndumas 15y ago
  "When Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone to the world in 2007, he mentioned that Apple had set a goal for itself to reach one percent of the mobile phone market share." . --http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/01/iphone-passes-1-percent-goal-for-2008-looking-good-for-2009.ars http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/01/iphone-passes-1-pe...
The_Sponge 15y ago
That's because Samsung has a wider view of "smartphone". They release a LOT of Bada phones which they consider to be "smart", but often only mention their Android partnership when they release their numbers.
nextparadigms 15y ago
I was expecting this. Apple can't possibly match Samsung with all their smartphone price ranges, and it's only the beginning for Samsung. There are a lot more "units" to be sold in the under $150 level. That's where the biggest volume will come from. I also expect them to surpass Nokia in all phone shipments, too (they already did in smartphones). But it might take a few more quarters. Nokia will transition too slowly to Windows Phone and Meltemi, and it's yet to be seen if they will even see as big success as they did in the past with Symbian. Many have already moved on from Nokia.
- technoslut 15y ago
  There are other factors that did give Samsung an advantage such as no new iPhone launched by Apple this quarter. It remains to be seen what the impact is of new iPhone, Sprint availability and a 3GS that is free with a contract. Apple is predicting that they will generate $40 billion during the next quarter. With a 'free' 3GS Apple is pretty much competing with Samsung and Android now at every price point.
  - bad_user 15y ago
    On the other hand, keeping the 3GS on the market will mean new iOS versions have to remain compatible with it and it will also mean further fragmentation of the platform (hardware capabilities and resolution). So it will cost them something. Competition is a bitch.
  - nextparadigms 15y ago
    Apple might win the next quarter, because of the launch boost of iPhone 4S, but it will be their last one. After that it's all Samsung all the way. And no, Apple isn't competing with the Android manufacturers on every price point. This is a common American fallacy, thinking that the contract price is all that matters, and that it's the real price of the phone. But an iPhone 3GS still costs around $400, while Android manufacturers can make even $100 phones today. What this means is that the iPhone 3GS will still be sold on an expensive contract, while the "free" Android phones will be even on $10 contracts.
- deleted 15y ago
brisance 15y ago
Once again the media is derelict in its reporting duties by equating "shipped" as "sold". They are not the same thing.
- ZeroGravitas 15y ago
  Samsung smartphones are selling briskly, there is no material difference in the numbers. The month on month rise in sales, for the last year or so, has been spectacular. You can't just keep shipping phones at that pace without selling them, it's simply not realistic to channel stuff on that scale.
  - brisance 15y ago
    The article didn't mention anything about the difference in "shipped" vs "sold" numbers. Apple's numbers are those that have sold through to customers. So there is not enough information to tell if it's "a material difference". The rest of the article is equally shoddy. For example: Chinese phone maker ZTE Corp.’s cheaper handsets helped it take 4.7 percent and overtake Apple for fourth place. Global market shipments climbed 14 percent to 390 million units, according to the researcher. Apple does not even produce feature phones, so the inclusion of Apple in that paragraph can only be construed as mischievous. It's like saying "Porsche fell to last place in the under-US$20K category".
Mordor 15y ago
... and so the pressure builds on Apple to diversify, which is what killed it last time. Really Apple needs to invent and come up with something special, but as SJ would tell you - which idea do you pick?
- rjd 15y ago
  Killed it last time? sooo it had nothing to do with Microsoft , Windows 95, and the arrival of the internet? The 90s house hold computing boom left Apple completely out of the equation, the couldn't compete on any level. Jobs turned that around by competiting where MS couldn't, with hardware and usability (through lock in).
- Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
  Does it? It may not ship the units that Samsung ships but it makes far more money off the smaller number of units it does sell. The reality is that Apple were the largest smartphone manufacturer in the world for one quarter. It would be more accurate to view the fact that they were (briefly) number one as a blip rather than see it as a major title they lost and something they need to react to.
  - hpaavola 15y ago
    How much money does Apple and Samsung make from smartphones?
    - davidrhunt 15y ago
      From Q2 2011 http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/29/apples-iphone-accounted-for-66-of-q2-smartphone-profit-among-top-vendors/ http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/29/apples-iphone-accounted-for-66...
      - hpaavola 15y ago
        That seems to show total profit of Apple from Q2 of 2011. See http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/20Apple-Reports-Second-Quarter-Results.html http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/20Apple-Reports-Seco... "The Company posted record second quarter revenue of $24.67 billion and record second quarter net profit of $5.99 billion" and compare that number to the latter graph on the page you posted. Or am I reading this wrong? I know nothing about finances, so it very well might be that case that I just don't understand what I read. So, again, how much does Apple and Samsung make money from mobile phones?
coob 15y ago
What percentage of the profits do they take? Exactly.
- ZeroGravitas 15y ago
  Do you have figures to share? You seem confident, yet I'm equally confident that their profits from smartphones are large and growing quickly. It's seems unlikely that they would be doing so differently from HTC and ZTE, much smaller players who are doing very well. I don't know of any comprehensive numbers on the market that I'd trust, but as a snapshot Apple reported $7.3 Billion profit in July (for phones, ipods, ipads + compters etc.) up 80% from last year, while Samsung just announced $2.3 Billion just from smartphones, a yearly increase of over 100%. (This doesn't seem to include money from selling components to other smartphone makers, such as Apple).
  - coob 15y ago
    Asymco smartphone profit league table updated for Q3: http://pic.twitter.com/rIO0siLf http://pic.twitter.com/rIO0siLf Edit: See also: http://www.asymco.com/hire-me/vendor-bubbles/ http://www.asymco.com/hire-me/vendor-bubbles/
    - ZeroGravitas 15y ago
      Your graph appears to show Samsung overtaking RIM and Nokia in profits and moving into second place as its smartphone marketshare grows to be the largest (it overtook them both in marketshare during the last year). Do you think that supports your point or mine? As a reminder my point was that "I'm equally confident that their profits from smartphones are large and growing quickly". (The bubbles' seem to paint the same picture in a more dynamic way, with Apple, Samsung and HTC rising strongly over the last year though it ends at June.) I'm a bit confused about Apple's profit being "6" according to the bubble thing in June and it being $7.5 Billion for their entire product line the next quarter. I guess that's not just smartphones then (edit: yep, confirmed it's all products combined).
      - 15y ago
mtkd 15y ago
26% of the iPhone 4 was manufactured by Samsung: http://www.economist.com/node/21525685 http://www.economist.com/node/21525685 Samsung have for a long time been a bigger player in the smartphone market than they look from their device sales alone.
- tjogin 15y ago
  Sure they have, and as long as we count parts and phones, rather than revenues, or better yet, profits, they will always be "bigger" than Apple, in that sense. I have a feeling they'd rather be more profitable though.
  - davidw 15y ago
    As a consumer, I think I'd rather buy from the guy that's, yes, profitable, so they don't disappear, but not the one that's making quite so huge margins on the stuff they sell me.
    - Retric 15y ago
      Huge margins tend to come from good software, and I would much rather have better software than care what the manufacture's costs are.
      - davidw 15y ago
        As ramchip says below, there are a zillion reasons why high margins may happen, including some that are "good", and some that are "bad". All other things being mostly equal, I'd go for the guy who's not making as much money off of me, because that means that more of the value is accruing to me, rather than to him. Simple as that.
        backprojection 15y ago
        This seems a bit backwards. The price and hence profit that the guy can sell you his widgets for is set largely by how much you (on average) are willing to pay for the value his widget brings you. Saying, hypothetically, "All other things being mostly equal" isn't really useful here I don't think. It's saying: 'assume the iPhone and SGSII generally represent the same value to people' clearly for a large portion of the people, they don't. ( I own a SGSI )
jhuni 15y ago
Well overtaking Apple is a good start, we shouldn't stop until Apple tyranny is totally wiped off the face of the Earth.
- dereg 15y ago
  Samsung is indisputably more "tyrannical" than Apple. The corporation has unsurpassed political influence in South Korea. For instance, scumbag Chairman (former CEO) Lee Kun-Hee is a nepotist and admitted guilt to political bribery in 2008. Guess what? He paid his way out of jail time and was even pardoned by LMB in 2009. Samsung also has tremendous media influence in the nation. The company influences the media by giving or withdrawing advertising, giving scholarships to journalists, or suing the critical media. As a result, their corporate misdeeds get swept under the rug. The company uses the press as a means to control the press rather than sell their products. Samsung accounts for almost one-fifth of the entire nation's GDP. It's no surprise they are the nation's largest advertiser. Corporate influence in the USA is nothing compared to the influence of the chaebol in Korea.
  - jhuni 15y ago
    As anti-capitalist, I oppose all corporations, including Samsung. On the other hand, as a free software activist, Apple has made itself my number one enemy in the past year or so with the considerable spread of the DRM-ridden iOS.
    - falling 15y ago
      I can never remember if Apple is a monopolist or Android is taking over.
      - recoiledsnake 15y ago
        I similarly can't understand how Microsoft is dying in the post-PC world that we are supposed to be living in, but somehow trying to kill Linux by requiring secure boot on it's PCs(which no one is supposed to be buying anymore).
boscomutunga 15y ago
The secret of samsung is that they cater for multiple price ranges, also the use of android is proving to be a good advantage over the now dying nokia.Despite the launch of the lumia, nokia and microsoft aren't likely to win in this race.
diminish 15y ago
Single device strategy vs Devices with multiple sizes, keyboards etc.The first strategy makes good profit and the second strategy makes more revenuue. but long term, always the market share rules strategically..
- wmf 15y ago
  It's clear that very small market share is not sustainable, but the market is so large that I think iOS will be fine even if it levels off at ~30% share.
  - MaysonL 15y ago
    And also, given that a much larger share of Android users switch to iOS than switch the other way, Apple will do fine.
    - diminish 15y ago
      that is totally false; I (comscore, nielsen) observe that android came from 1% to near 50% of all sales globally in 2 years despite the media buzz around ip. most of my friends are disappointed by over promised, not met expectations of ip5 and they are moving to large screen android phones. sgs2 and sgn are clear winners as well as htc.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
hugh3 15y ago
I'm really confused as to why some people seem to have strong feelings about this.
- kenjackson 15y ago
  I agree. It's interesting info to know, but not something to get worked up about. MG Siegler seems to take pride in Apple making a lot of money, for example. I'm really unclear why I should get excited if Apple make $30B this year or $25B unless I'm a shareholder.
  - hugh3 15y ago
    Well heck, I am an Apple shareholder, but still don't particularly care whether Apple happens to sell more phones than any other individual company, as long as they're still selling plenty of phones and making plenty of money. I mean, I'd prefer 'em to be making more money rather than less money, but it's not a great idea to get too emotionally invested in every piece of news about every company you happen to have some money in.
- hm8 15y ago
  I guess this is just a way of confirming your choice with so many out there. This is similar to the Google+ and Facebook buzz that was there a some time ago. Also, people want their favorite companies to be pitted against their closest competitor and when they emerge victorious, they have a sense of pride about it. To end, this is very similar to the emacs vs vim or windows vs linux vs mac or the browser competition where people just want to establish their some kind of superiority over the others.
jnfr 15y ago
My problem is that all of these articles are missing a key piece of information: the number of devices each manufacturer has out on the market. Jumping over to Samsung's website, I count 14 Galaxy Smartphone devices currently on sale. What about Apple? They have on sale the iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S. How about instead of comparing absolute values of shipments, we talk about number of shipments per device? But is it really a numbers game? Is it quantity over quality? It's no secret that Apple has one of the most loyal fanbases out of any other tech company. Who is clamoring over wanting every new Galaxy smartphone? Who's lining up every time they release a new product? For those who want to play the numbers game, make sure to play it properly. The iPhone 4s sold 4M shipments during its first weekend. Meanwhile, it took Samsung 55 days to sell 3 million Galaxy S IIs, arguably, their most successful Smartphone yet. Now if Samsung continuously releases new versions of these Galaxy smartphones, which they are, then obviously they will be shipping more.
YooLi 15y ago
Can anyone find Samsung's actual sales numbers? Not analysts estimates or vague percentages more. I would think if Samsung is selling as much as is claimed, they would have at least a concrete number.
idspispopd 15y ago
These figures are a red herring, I'd like to know how the iPhone-equivalent models from Samsung/others are selling. The 3GS is available on upfront $0, but the plan cost is higher, which means it's not competitive to the much cheaper, albeit less-featured/powered models from other vendors. In essence this is apple replicating their 90%+ marketshare in computers over USD$1000. As an app developer I'm more interested in how this top end pans out. I want the consumers who are willing to buy apps, and I want there to be lots of them on one kind of platform so I don't have to do the heavy lifting in making the game consistent across all handsets. I'm not making angry-birds clones that could run on minecraft redstone, so a basic level of GPU+CPU capability is needed. Samsung's business model promotes the further fragmentation of Android, and I think this will be a bad thing for consumers(read: developers). We'll be back to the days of nokia making a different phone for every conceivable type of person there is, with only nokia or huge studios with the capability to make the umpteen variations required to make the game feel at least comparable across each handset. If there are 80% of the market using android devices that are underpowered the only winner will be flashlight apps.

129 points by aab1d 15y ago

Apple never set out to make the most smartphones, it just kind of happened. They set out to make the most money. Samsung are a fair distance from achieving that.

the100rabh 15y ago
why do I smell a loser mactard here. I think u should just appreciate that Samsung has made a difference in the smartphone market and has become the Market leader. You are the guys who make others feel that its really a big deal.
pyre 15y ago
Well, Apple fans really did set the stage for these sort of comparisons with all the hand waving about how the iPhone would be the only smart phone in the future. And their continuous need to point out market share numbers in their Internet "my favorite company can beat up your favorite company" fights.
- jamesrom 15y ago
  Apple has never been on top in market share... I don't think any Apple fan would point to market share as an indicator of success.
  - ZeroGravitas 15y ago
    Never underestimate the power of double-think. I can't believe that Gruber (for example) would claim with a straight face "Money is how you keep score" after years of attacking Microsoft who massively won on both marketshare and profitshare on the desktop. (They've fallen slightly behind in profit the last year or so, but take any longer period and they murder Apple. By Gruber's own metric this means Apple's computers sucked, and in that case why should we be excited about their phone?)
    - Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
      This is true but it's something both sides are guilty of. The most vocal Android proponent I know carps on about market share incessantly as a measure of it's superiority despite having spent the best part of two decades reacting to Window's dominance with the old "eat shit, a billion flies can't be wrong". The truth is that both sides have some interesting challenges ahead. Google have just bought a device maker (who just posted a significant loss) which could very realistically harm it's relationships with other manufactures (including Samsung). Meanwhile Samsung - the best Android phone manufacturer right now - are also now signed up to provide Windows Phones and are investing in Bada. And pretty much all Android phone manufacturers are operating on pretty thin margins because of the competition. Plus Kindle and others are starting to fragment what Android means - are app developers going to be held back by having to keep things running on the far older Fire version if they want to access what is likely to be a massive market? Oh, and those pesky little patents suits aren't going anywhere in a hurry and are likely to be, at the very least, expensive. On the upside it now has a mass market advantage and a lot of people betting on it. Meanwhile Apple's previous unrivalled dominance in terms of product quality has significantly eroded (if not disappeared altogether) and it's iPod -> iPhone upgrade path is dropping away as the iPod ceases to be a big seller (though the Mac is now becoming mass market which at the very least boosts the Apple brand and awareness). The iPad is still the undisputed king of tablets but that's likely to at the very least come under more sustained pressure than it has so far as further iterations of Android tablets improve. Plus the potential for a post-Jobs psychological hit exists and, those patent suits aren't just running one way. And both of them are going to be threatened by Nokia and MS getting their shit together with a couple of nice looking phones, a billion dollar marketing budget and a shed load of brand recognition in the mass market space. Bottom line - I don't think anyone should carp right now, this thing is a long way from playing out.
      - ZeroGravitas 15y ago
        Your post is all very reasonable, but do you not realise that this quote ... "And pretty much all Android phone manufacturers are operating on pretty thin margins because of the competition." ... simply isn't true, and the only reason you think that is because it has become an accepted truth in the Apple echo-chamber? (Mostly by intentionally fudging between mobile phone and smartphone numbers depending on whichever makes Apple sound better).
  - angus77 15y ago
    Tablets?
ZeroGravitas 15y ago
"They set out to make the most money." It really worries me that there's a new breed of Apple fan that actually believes this. In reality they set out to build the best device (for affluent, white, middle-aged, American males with a taste for minimalism) and semi-accidentally became fashionable status symbols. The crowing about making the most money was just fanboy bragging because every other stat they bragged about was slowly being eclipsed by Android. Fanboy rule number one is to make far too big a deal about anything unique about you or your enemy. Some people seem to have latched onto profit margins and run wild with it. This has gotten to the point where I'm half expecting, even here on HN, someone to come along and claim that Samsung "isn't making any money" from selling these phones.
- jamesrom 15y ago
  So you're upset that Apple fans are claiming that Apple set out to make a lot of money instead of claiming they set out to make the best device? That sounds backwards to me.
  - ZeroGravitas 15y ago
    I like a lot of things about Apple, and I've bought a lot of their products and often recommended them to friends (still do, only recently bought my parents an iPad). I can honestly say that their profits have never been something I've been impressed by, and indeed, for most of that time they didn't have impressive profits, so if I was impressed by profits I would have bought and recommended Windows PCs instead.
    - sjwright 15y ago
      > > > > They set out to make the most money > > > they set out to build the best device Surely it's equal parts of both: Apple try to make the best products (in order to) make the most money (in order to) make the best products (in order to) make the most money (in order to) make the best products (in order to) etc etc... In the sandpit where Apple plays, you can't have one without the other. A beautiful symbiosis of business and craft.
cageface 15y ago
However, if these trends continue in the longer term Apple could start to suffer from some of the same negative network effects that plagued them in the PC era. If their market share slips too far people will start perceiving them again as a niche, luxury brand too different from what their friends and family use.
shawndumas 15y ago
"When Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone to the world in 2007, he mentioned that Apple had set a goal for itself to reach one percent of the mobile phone market share." . --http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/01/iphone-passes-1-percent-goal-for-2008-looking-good-for-2009.ars http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/01/iphone-passes-1-pe...

The_Sponge 15y ago

That's because Samsung has a wider view of "smartphone". They release a LOT of Bada phones which they consider to be "smart", but often only mention their Android partnership when they release their numbers.

nextparadigms 15y ago

I was expecting this. Apple can't possibly match Samsung with all their smartphone price ranges, and it's only the beginning for Samsung. There are a lot more "units" to be sold in the under $150 level. That's where the biggest volume will come from. I also expect them to surpass Nokia in all phone shipments, too (they already did in smartphones). But it might take a few more quarters. Nokia will transition too slowly to Windows Phone and Meltemi, and it's yet to be seen if they will even see as big success as they did in the past with Symbian. Many have already moved on from Nokia.

technoslut 15y ago
There are other factors that did give Samsung an advantage such as no new iPhone launched by Apple this quarter. It remains to be seen what the impact is of new iPhone, Sprint availability and a 3GS that is free with a contract. Apple is predicting that they will generate $40 billion during the next quarter. With a 'free' 3GS Apple is pretty much competing with Samsung and Android now at every price point.
- bad_user 15y ago
  On the other hand, keeping the 3GS on the market will mean new iOS versions have to remain compatible with it and it will also mean further fragmentation of the platform (hardware capabilities and resolution). So it will cost them something. Competition is a bitch.
- nextparadigms 15y ago
  Apple might win the next quarter, because of the launch boost of iPhone 4S, but it will be their last one. After that it's all Samsung all the way. And no, Apple isn't competing with the Android manufacturers on every price point. This is a common American fallacy, thinking that the contract price is all that matters, and that it's the real price of the phone. But an iPhone 3GS still costs around $400, while Android manufacturers can make even $100 phones today. What this means is that the iPhone 3GS will still be sold on an expensive contract, while the "free" Android phones will be even on $10 contracts.
deleted 15y ago

brisance 15y ago

Once again the media is derelict in its reporting duties by equating "shipped" as "sold". They are not the same thing.

ZeroGravitas 15y ago
Samsung smartphones are selling briskly, there is no material difference in the numbers. The month on month rise in sales, for the last year or so, has been spectacular. You can't just keep shipping phones at that pace without selling them, it's simply not realistic to channel stuff on that scale.
- brisance 15y ago
  The article didn't mention anything about the difference in "shipped" vs "sold" numbers. Apple's numbers are those that have sold through to customers. So there is not enough information to tell if it's "a material difference". The rest of the article is equally shoddy. For example: Chinese phone maker ZTE Corp.’s cheaper handsets helped it take 4.7 percent and overtake Apple for fourth place. Global market shipments climbed 14 percent to 390 million units, according to the researcher. Apple does not even produce feature phones, so the inclusion of Apple in that paragraph can only be construed as mischievous. It's like saying "Porsche fell to last place in the under-US$20K category".

Mordor 15y ago

... and so the pressure builds on Apple to diversify, which is what killed it last time. Really Apple needs to invent and come up with something special, but as SJ would tell you - which idea do you pick?

rjd 15y ago
Killed it last time? sooo it had nothing to do with Microsoft , Windows 95, and the arrival of the internet? The 90s house hold computing boom left Apple completely out of the equation, the couldn't compete on any level. Jobs turned that around by competiting where MS couldn't, with hardware and usability (through lock in).
Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
Does it? It may not ship the units that Samsung ships but it makes far more money off the smaller number of units it does sell. The reality is that Apple were the largest smartphone manufacturer in the world for one quarter. It would be more accurate to view the fact that they were (briefly) number one as a blip rather than see it as a major title they lost and something they need to react to.
- hpaavola 15y ago
  How much money does Apple and Samsung make from smartphones?
  - davidrhunt 15y ago
    From Q2 2011 http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/29/apples-iphone-accounted-for-66-of-q2-smartphone-profit-among-top-vendors/ http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/29/apples-iphone-accounted-for-66...
    - hpaavola 15y ago
      That seems to show total profit of Apple from Q2 of 2011. See http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/20Apple-Reports-Second-Quarter-Results.html http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/20Apple-Reports-Seco... "The Company posted record second quarter revenue of $24.67 billion and record second quarter net profit of $5.99 billion" and compare that number to the latter graph on the page you posted. Or am I reading this wrong? I know nothing about finances, so it very well might be that case that I just don't understand what I read. So, again, how much does Apple and Samsung make money from mobile phones?

coob 15y ago

What percentage of the profits do they take? Exactly.

ZeroGravitas 15y ago
Do you have figures to share? You seem confident, yet I'm equally confident that their profits from smartphones are large and growing quickly. It's seems unlikely that they would be doing so differently from HTC and ZTE, much smaller players who are doing very well. I don't know of any comprehensive numbers on the market that I'd trust, but as a snapshot Apple reported $7.3 Billion profit in July (for phones, ipods, ipads + compters etc.) up 80% from last year, while Samsung just announced $2.3 Billion just from smartphones, a yearly increase of over 100%. (This doesn't seem to include money from selling components to other smartphone makers, such as Apple).
- coob 15y ago
  Asymco smartphone profit league table updated for Q3: http://pic.twitter.com/rIO0siLf http://pic.twitter.com/rIO0siLf Edit: See also: http://www.asymco.com/hire-me/vendor-bubbles/ http://www.asymco.com/hire-me/vendor-bubbles/
  - ZeroGravitas 15y ago
    Your graph appears to show Samsung overtaking RIM and Nokia in profits and moving into second place as its smartphone marketshare grows to be the largest (it overtook them both in marketshare during the last year). Do you think that supports your point or mine? As a reminder my point was that "I'm equally confident that their profits from smartphones are large and growing quickly". (The bubbles' seem to paint the same picture in a more dynamic way, with Apple, Samsung and HTC rising strongly over the last year though it ends at June.) I'm a bit confused about Apple's profit being "6" according to the bubble thing in June and it being $7.5 Billion for their entire product line the next quarter. I guess that's not just smartphones then (edit: yep, confirmed it's all products combined).
    - 15y ago

mtkd 15y ago

26% of the iPhone 4 was manufactured by Samsung: http://www.economist.com/node/21525685 http://www.economist.com/node/21525685 Samsung have for a long time been a bigger player in the smartphone market than they look from their device sales alone.

tjogin 15y ago
Sure they have, and as long as we count parts and phones, rather than revenues, or better yet, profits, they will always be "bigger" than Apple, in that sense. I have a feeling they'd rather be more profitable though.
- davidw 15y ago
  As a consumer, I think I'd rather buy from the guy that's, yes, profitable, so they don't disappear, but not the one that's making quite so huge margins on the stuff they sell me.
  - Retric 15y ago
    Huge margins tend to come from good software, and I would much rather have better software than care what the manufacture's costs are.
    - davidw 15y ago
      As ramchip says below, there are a zillion reasons why high margins may happen, including some that are "good", and some that are "bad". All other things being mostly equal, I'd go for the guy who's not making as much money off of me, because that means that more of the value is accruing to me, rather than to him. Simple as that.
      - backprojection 15y ago
        This seems a bit backwards. The price and hence profit that the guy can sell you his widgets for is set largely by how much you (on average) are willing to pay for the value his widget brings you. Saying, hypothetically, "All other things being mostly equal" isn't really useful here I don't think. It's saying: 'assume the iPhone and SGSII generally represent the same value to people' clearly for a large portion of the people, they don't. ( I own a SGSI )

jhuni 15y ago

Well overtaking Apple is a good start, we shouldn't stop until Apple tyranny is totally wiped off the face of the Earth.

dereg 15y ago
Samsung is indisputably more "tyrannical" than Apple. The corporation has unsurpassed political influence in South Korea. For instance, scumbag Chairman (former CEO) Lee Kun-Hee is a nepotist and admitted guilt to political bribery in 2008. Guess what? He paid his way out of jail time and was even pardoned by LMB in 2009. Samsung also has tremendous media influence in the nation. The company influences the media by giving or withdrawing advertising, giving scholarships to journalists, or suing the critical media. As a result, their corporate misdeeds get swept under the rug. The company uses the press as a means to control the press rather than sell their products. Samsung accounts for almost one-fifth of the entire nation's GDP. It's no surprise they are the nation's largest advertiser. Corporate influence in the USA is nothing compared to the influence of the chaebol in Korea.
- jhuni 15y ago
  As anti-capitalist, I oppose all corporations, including Samsung. On the other hand, as a free software activist, Apple has made itself my number one enemy in the past year or so with the considerable spread of the DRM-ridden iOS.
  - falling 15y ago
    I can never remember if Apple is a monopolist or Android is taking over.
    - recoiledsnake 15y ago
      I similarly can't understand how Microsoft is dying in the post-PC world that we are supposed to be living in, but somehow trying to kill Linux by requiring secure boot on it's PCs(which no one is supposed to be buying anymore).

boscomutunga 15y ago

The secret of samsung is that they cater for multiple price ranges, also the use of android is proving to be a good advantage over the now dying nokia.Despite the launch of the lumia, nokia and microsoft aren't likely to win in this race.

diminish 15y ago

Single device strategy vs Devices with multiple sizes, keyboards etc.The first strategy makes good profit and the second strategy makes more revenuue. but long term, always the market share rules strategically..

wmf 15y ago
It's clear that very small market share is not sustainable, but the market is so large that I think iOS will be fine even if it levels off at ~30% share.
- MaysonL 15y ago
  And also, given that a much larger share of Android users switch to iOS than switch the other way, Apple will do fine.
  - diminish 15y ago
    that is totally false; I (comscore, nielsen) observe that android came from 1% to near 50% of all sales globally in 2 years despite the media buzz around ip. most of my friends are disappointed by over promised, not met expectations of ip5 and they are moving to large screen android phones. sgs2 and sgn are clear winners as well as htc.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

hugh3 15y ago

I'm really confused as to why some people seem to have strong feelings about this.

kenjackson 15y ago
I agree. It's interesting info to know, but not something to get worked up about. MG Siegler seems to take pride in Apple making a lot of money, for example. I'm really unclear why I should get excited if Apple make $30B this year or $25B unless I'm a shareholder.
- hugh3 15y ago
  Well heck, I am an Apple shareholder, but still don't particularly care whether Apple happens to sell more phones than any other individual company, as long as they're still selling plenty of phones and making plenty of money. I mean, I'd prefer 'em to be making more money rather than less money, but it's not a great idea to get too emotionally invested in every piece of news about every company you happen to have some money in.
hm8 15y ago
I guess this is just a way of confirming your choice with so many out there. This is similar to the Google+ and Facebook buzz that was there a some time ago. Also, people want their favorite companies to be pitted against their closest competitor and when they emerge victorious, they have a sense of pride about it. To end, this is very similar to the emacs vs vim or windows vs linux vs mac or the browser competition where people just want to establish their some kind of superiority over the others.

jnfr 15y ago

My problem is that all of these articles are missing a key piece of information: the number of devices each manufacturer has out on the market. Jumping over to Samsung's website, I count 14 Galaxy Smartphone devices currently on sale. What about Apple? They have on sale the iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S. How about instead of comparing absolute values of shipments, we talk about number of shipments per device? But is it really a numbers game? Is it quantity over quality? It's no secret that Apple has one of the most loyal fanbases out of any other tech company. Who is clamoring over wanting every new Galaxy smartphone? Who's lining up every time they release a new product? For those who want to play the numbers game, make sure to play it properly. The iPhone 4s sold 4M shipments during its first weekend. Meanwhile, it took Samsung 55 days to sell 3 million Galaxy S IIs, arguably, their most successful Smartphone yet. Now if Samsung continuously releases new versions of these Galaxy smartphones, which they are, then obviously they will be shipping more.

YooLi 15y ago

Can anyone find Samsung's actual sales numbers? Not analysts estimates or vague percentages more. I would think if Samsung is selling as much as is claimed, they would have at least a concrete number.

idspispopd 15y ago

These figures are a red herring, I'd like to know how the iPhone-equivalent models from Samsung/others are selling. The 3GS is available on upfront $0, but the plan cost is higher, which means it's not competitive to the much cheaper, albeit less-featured/powered models from other vendors. In essence this is apple replicating their 90%+ marketshare in computers over USD$1000. As an app developer I'm more interested in how this top end pans out. I want the consumers who are willing to buy apps, and I want there to be lots of them on one kind of platform so I don't have to do the heavy lifting in making the game consistent across all handsets. I'm not making angry-birds clones that could run on minecraft redstone, so a basic level of GPU+CPU capability is needed. Samsung's business model promotes the further fragmentation of Android, and I think this will be a bad thing for consumers(read: developers). We'll be back to the days of nokia making a different phone for every conceivable type of person there is, with only nokia or huge studios with the capability to make the umpteen variations required to make the game feel at least comparable across each handset. If there are 80% of the market using android devices that are underpowered the only winner will be flashlight apps.