6 ms·

Can't microsoft work on this instead? I don't get it.

by jokoon 4y ago

spacedcowboy 4y ago
They can. For whatever reason, they're not.
travisathougies 4y ago
I agree. I understand volunteering to make Linux work, since Linux is an open-source project. But why do all this work for Microsoft for free?
- tclancy 4y ago
  I am with you but would guess it's for the same reason one climbs Mount Everest. (To leave a bunch of trash around for the next set of people who attempt it?)
- treesknees 4y ago
  I refuse to believe that there isn't at least one person or team at Microsoft looking at this already, so it's not only free work but may also be redundant.
usrn 4y ago
I don't think Microsoft sees a future in Windows. Their current strategy seems to be one of extracting as much value from it as possible until it dies.
- singhrac 4y ago
  Really? I think Windows is in the best state it's ever been... WSL is incredibly nice to use as a development platform, and many well-designed apps have a Windows version ever since Electron started becoming the de facto standard.
  - usrn 4y ago
    So Linux/GNU is a great dev environment and Electron is the standard for building apps. Tell me how exactly you think this means Windows is a healthy platform?
    - singhrac 4y ago
      Hmm, I guess you must mean that the native Windows development environment (i.e. .NET/Windows App SDK) isn't very developer friendly; I'm afraid I don't have any idea or how to compare it to Swift or Cocoa. As a user, though, I have better access to software and tools than ever before!
      - sgjohnson 4y ago
        I'd argue that the quality of software on Windows specifically has decreased significantly since the rise of Electron.
  - sgjohnson 4y ago
    Electron is a steaming pile of garbage and I wish it a swift and sudden death. Electron "apps" aren't apps. They are glorified webpages.
xeromal 4y ago
Because this is hackernews and this guy seems to find it interesting to work on.
- glmdev 4y ago
  Surprised I had to scroll this far to see this. It's an objectively cool project, even if it doesn't make the most financial/business sense. Doesn't seem like that's the point.
sdflhasjd 4y ago
Microsoft aren't going to write drivers for the M1 - it's not their job , even if Apple provided sufficient documentation.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Microsoft aren't going to write drivers for the M1 - it's not their job It's absolutely their job to make Excel less of a P.O.S. on Mac.
  - rdsnsca 4y ago
    Excel on Mac is a P.O.S. because Microsoft wants it to be one, they don't want users switching to Macs.
    - astrange 4y ago
      Microsoft’s MacBU has always been a separate team who I don’t think have ever held back on trying to make good products and have put surprising amounts of effort into it. Even the PC Office team doesn’t care if the Windows team does well, after all. They do however have nightmarish build processes and technical debt that when I mention here get replies from people claiming I must have made it up.
  - mr_toad 4y ago
    Use the web-based version in Edge. It’s not quite the desktop version, but it has improved a lot. At this point I’d rather use the web-versions of all office tools on a Mac rather than deal with installing them.
oofbey 4y ago
Microsoft and Apple are traditional enemies. Microsoft has no reason to make Apple's hardware more attractive to customers. The thing I don't get is why a consumer would want this. You want an _extremely expensive_ windows laptop. I guess the hope would be that the battery life is worlds better than anything you'd get in standard windows-land. But in reality battery life optimization requires paying careful to the devices and their drivers -- e.g. when parts of the system shut down because they're not in use. Not easy for a project like this. So I'd sadly guess you end up with an expensive windows laptop with battery life comparable to a standard windows laptop. But you get that nice minimal Apple industrial design. :shrug:
- technovader 4y ago
  You can't imagine why a Windows user would want to run it on better hardware? Or that there are Windows workflows that just don't work on OSX? Or want a fanless laptop with good performance?
  - oofbey 4y ago
    TBH I have a hard time understanding why people choose to run windows at all, except for playing games. If you're stuck using windows because the corporate overlords insist, then yeah that sucks. Also you can always run windows in a VM. Even on an M1.
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      Windows has fantastic accessibility properties/support. They even have a blind dev working on Visual Studio (or did)[0] for awhile. Apple's accessibility options are not anywhere near on-par with Windows. Linux ... I honestly haven't ever tried a screen reader in Linux and I have a feeling it is 100% up to whichever dev implemented something with no centralized style of doing things. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94swlF55tVc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94swlF55tVc
    - dosenbrot 4y ago
      I’m with you. Many people constantly complain about windows but most of them still using it. They say it’s going to get better, but it won’t. You could spend five years trying to make windows run ob an M1 und MS would break it within an hour. I’m done with microsoft, they disappointed me to many times, never again. It’s necessary for some games but it’s getting better with linux (thanks to valve).
skohan 4y ago
I'm not sure why you would want to run Windows at all honestly. It seems like the OS you use when there's literally no other option.
- massysett 4y ago
  I can get Windows hardware for dirt cheap. Much cheaper than any Mac hardware. So if I am using the computer as essentially a dumb terminal to connect to a service over a network, there’s no reason to buy Mac hardware. Yes the hardware is janky and the OS is bad. But I’m getting what I pay for, and here my needs are modest, so why pay more? Besides that, some people actually like Windows, or dislike Macs, though I’m not one of those people. I prefer the Mac. I just see when the Mac is a poor buy compared to Windows.
  - skohan 4y ago
    Those aren't the only two options. There's not really any such thing as "windows hardware" - and if you really want maximize performance of low-end hardware, Linux is really the king for that use-case. A lot of low-end hardware will not even run Windows 11, which is probably going to be more and more of a pain to deal with as time goes on.
    - massysett 4y ago
      I have to run proprietary software on it. Installing it on Linux is a pain. It’s doable in Linux, but the hassle of Linux gets me absolutely nothing in return here. I’ve used Linux extensively so I know. I don’t need to maximize the performance of the hardware. I don’t need Windows 11. Sometimes Windows really is the best solution.

Can't microsoft work on this instead? I don't get it.

by jokoon 4y ago

Can't microsoft work on this instead? I don't get it.

spacedcowboy 4y ago

They can. For whatever reason, they're not.

travisathougies 4y ago

I agree. I understand volunteering to make Linux work, since Linux is an open-source project. But why do all this work for Microsoft for free?

tclancy 4y ago
I am with you but would guess it's for the same reason one climbs Mount Everest. (To leave a bunch of trash around for the next set of people who attempt it?)
treesknees 4y ago
I refuse to believe that there isn't at least one person or team at Microsoft looking at this already, so it's not only free work but may also be redundant.

usrn 4y ago

I don't think Microsoft sees a future in Windows. Their current strategy seems to be one of extracting as much value from it as possible until it dies.

singhrac 4y ago
Really? I think Windows is in the best state it's ever been... WSL is incredibly nice to use as a development platform, and many well-designed apps have a Windows version ever since Electron started becoming the de facto standard.
- usrn 4y ago
  So Linux/GNU is a great dev environment and Electron is the standard for building apps. Tell me how exactly you think this means Windows is a healthy platform?
  - singhrac 4y ago
    Hmm, I guess you must mean that the native Windows development environment (i.e. .NET/Windows App SDK) isn't very developer friendly; I'm afraid I don't have any idea or how to compare it to Swift or Cocoa. As a user, though, I have better access to software and tools than ever before!
    - sgjohnson 4y ago
      I'd argue that the quality of software on Windows specifically has decreased significantly since the rise of Electron.
- sgjohnson 4y ago
  Electron is a steaming pile of garbage and I wish it a swift and sudden death. Electron "apps" aren't apps. They are glorified webpages.

xeromal 4y ago

Because this is hackernews and this guy seems to find it interesting to work on.

glmdev 4y ago
Surprised I had to scroll this far to see this. It's an objectively cool project, even if it doesn't make the most financial/business sense. Doesn't seem like that's the point.

sdflhasjd 4y ago

Microsoft aren't going to write drivers for the M1 - it's not their job , even if Apple provided sufficient documentation.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Microsoft aren't going to write drivers for the M1 - it's not their job It's absolutely their job to make Excel less of a P.O.S. on Mac.
- rdsnsca 4y ago
  Excel on Mac is a P.O.S. because Microsoft wants it to be one, they don't want users switching to Macs.
  - astrange 4y ago
    Microsoft’s MacBU has always been a separate team who I don’t think have ever held back on trying to make good products and have put surprising amounts of effort into it. Even the PC Office team doesn’t care if the Windows team does well, after all. They do however have nightmarish build processes and technical debt that when I mention here get replies from people claiming I must have made it up.
- mr_toad 4y ago
  Use the web-based version in Edge. It’s not quite the desktop version, but it has improved a lot. At this point I’d rather use the web-versions of all office tools on a Mac rather than deal with installing them.

oofbey 4y ago

Microsoft and Apple are traditional enemies. Microsoft has no reason to make Apple's hardware more attractive to customers. The thing I don't get is why a consumer would want this. You want an _extremely expensive_ windows laptop. I guess the hope would be that the battery life is worlds better than anything you'd get in standard windows-land. But in reality battery life optimization requires paying careful to the devices and their drivers -- e.g. when parts of the system shut down because they're not in use. Not easy for a project like this. So I'd sadly guess you end up with an expensive windows laptop with battery life comparable to a standard windows laptop. But you get that nice minimal Apple industrial design. :shrug:

technovader 4y ago
You can't imagine why a Windows user would want to run it on better hardware? Or that there are Windows workflows that just don't work on OSX? Or want a fanless laptop with good performance?
- oofbey 4y ago
  TBH I have a hard time understanding why people choose to run windows at all, except for playing games. If you're stuck using windows because the corporate overlords insist, then yeah that sucks. Also you can always run windows in a VM. Even on an M1.
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    Windows has fantastic accessibility properties/support. They even have a blind dev working on Visual Studio (or did)[0] for awhile. Apple's accessibility options are not anywhere near on-par with Windows. Linux ... I honestly haven't ever tried a screen reader in Linux and I have a feeling it is 100% up to whichever dev implemented something with no centralized style of doing things. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94swlF55tVc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94swlF55tVc
  - dosenbrot 4y ago
    I’m with you. Many people constantly complain about windows but most of them still using it. They say it’s going to get better, but it won’t. You could spend five years trying to make windows run ob an M1 und MS would break it within an hour. I’m done with microsoft, they disappointed me to many times, never again. It’s necessary for some games but it’s getting better with linux (thanks to valve).

skohan 4y ago

I'm not sure why you would want to run Windows at all honestly. It seems like the OS you use when there's literally no other option.

massysett 4y ago
I can get Windows hardware for dirt cheap. Much cheaper than any Mac hardware. So if I am using the computer as essentially a dumb terminal to connect to a service over a network, there’s no reason to buy Mac hardware. Yes the hardware is janky and the OS is bad. But I’m getting what I pay for, and here my needs are modest, so why pay more? Besides that, some people actually like Windows, or dislike Macs, though I’m not one of those people. I prefer the Mac. I just see when the Mac is a poor buy compared to Windows.
- skohan 4y ago
  Those aren't the only two options. There's not really any such thing as "windows hardware" - and if you really want maximize performance of low-end hardware, Linux is really the king for that use-case. A lot of low-end hardware will not even run Windows 11, which is probably going to be more and more of a pain to deal with as time goes on.
  - massysett 4y ago
    I have to run proprietary software on it. Installing it on Linux is a pain. It’s doable in Linux, but the hassle of Linux gets me absolutely nothing in return here. I’ve used Linux extensively so I know. I don’t need to maximize the performance of the hardware. I don’t need Windows 11. Sometimes Windows really is the best solution.