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The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. As an example, my Apple 96W USB-C charger

The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. As an example, my Apple 96W USB-C charger doesn't charge my nintendo switch. The cable that came with my phone doesn't charge said fully Mac when used with the 96w charger. There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices until you realise they don't work. This is going back to the dc jack era where you end up with these [0] guys with various tips and dials that all meet the USB-C "standard" for a connector but don't work. [0] https://www.amazon.co.uk/EFISH-Multifunctional-Transformer-2A-Electronics-3V-12V-8Plugs/dp/B0829R1GD7 https://www.amazon.co.uk/EFISH-Multifunctional-Transformer-2...

samiru 4y ago
> The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. We clearly need more regulation.
- maccard 4y ago
  Indeed, but this isn't the regulation we need unfortunately
  - varajelle 4y ago
    We need more color codes and symbols maybe?
    - maccard 4y ago
      Honestly I think we need different ports. My laptop can already draw more power than the charger that came with it can provide, it's insulting for it to pretend it is charging when I plug a 5w a to c charger into it. Enforcing USB pd as a standard would be another acceptable one.
stewx 4y ago
The issue with the Nintendo Switch is that Nintendo designed their own faulty USB-C charging implementation rather than merely using the reference design. It's not a failure of the spec, it's a failure to adhere to the spec. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  It's still not a great spec if it's so complex that you can screw it up. I understand the complexity for data, but for power I wish it was as simple as power & ground wires and that's it. Compare that with USB-A where even cheap Chinese cables from the lowest bidder usually work (work well enough at least - you might get voltage drop but it will still charge if you leave it on long enough) because the spec is so simple that even the worst manufacturers manage to do a good enough job, and it's something you can trivially DIY if you need to. Now compare that with USB-C. So many moving parts that can go wrong and so much corners that can be cut by unscrupulous manufacturers. Not to mention that even the most expensive devices (Apple) don't give you any visibility on what type of cable/charger/etc you have even though that information is technically available to the device (that's how it negotiates power delivery) which is extremely confusing even to tech-savvy people.
  - bratbag 4y ago
    Thats a very strange statement to make. Should complex things not have a spec?
    - Nextgrid 4y ago
      My point is that I don't like USB-C because it tries to do everything and manufacturer must implement that "everything" properly which adds cost & frustration. Compare USB-C power delivery and the 12-pin cable & connector with USB-A's 4 pins and a resistor on the data lines to communicate allowed current draw, or even a barrel jack with the standard 19V ~3A PSU and no negotiation at all. Which one is the easiest to build (hint: one is easy enough to DIY) and which one is more reliable?
  - 4y ago
thefz 4y ago
I've always found that charge works, sometimes it's not as fast as it can go, but it works.
- maccard 4y ago
  "not as fast as it can go" is selling it short. I have an old 5w usb charger that I found in my drawer and plugged an A to C charger from it into my 2016 MacBook Pro, and it "worked" by some definition of worked - the laptop thinks it's charging, however it's 19x below what the charger that came with the device outputs, so it's clearly not fit for purpose.
jayd16 4y ago
>you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together I never understood this sentiment. That would be even more true if USB-C wasn't the standard so I don't really understand the complaint. Obviously "same shape" isn't an indicator that it will "just work" for USB-C, so why would we expect that to be the case for anything else with modern complexity? It would be nice if fits == works but that's just not a world we live in, USB-C or not.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  Except if you use Lightning. It just works.
  - pkulak 4y ago
    Because it's not an open standard any only support low-power devices. If we gimped USB-C to only support 5 volts, it would work everywhere too.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - AprilArcus 4y ago
      iPhone fast charging over lightning runs at 9 volts.
      - ProZsolt 4y ago
        ... and uses USB-C on the other end of the cable
        AprilArcus 4y ago
        There's no cable that has lightning on both ends; the 5V configuration has USB-A on the power supply side. My point is just that that lightning connector isn't limited to 5V.
- 4y ago
WinstonSmith84 4y ago
Not sure about Nintendo, but my macbook charger is charging perfectly fine my (Android) smartphone, and I don't even take my Android charger when traveling (charging at decent pace but unfortunately not in "very fast" mode). Either way, this is quite ironic in regard to the so-called Apple ecosystem and iPhone users still having to carry their own charger in 2022
- jethro_tell 4y ago
  Well, no, doesn't apple make 1/3 of their money on cables and dongles? that's like the whole point. It's not some sticky customer issue that they just can't work out, it's clearly a straight profit decision and the customer comes last in that matrix.
r00fus 4y ago
I have the same issue with my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt v2. It has USB-C charger, but doesn't work with Apple's USB-C cable or my M1 30W brick. I need to use the cable that came with the Bolt (amusing is USB-A -> USB-C).
alkonaut 4y ago
Then at least one isn't USB-C? Or the spec isn't good enough? The regulation (I hope) is about actually adhering to USB-C, not merely shipping with USB-C connectors. And the bar to pass should be to be able to use a large stack of USB-C chargers and work.
neop1x 4y ago
It's a mess. Using a lower wattage charger (apple or other brand) won't charge a Macbook. If the battery is flat, it won't do anything to it, no sound, no light, macbook looking dead. But if the Macbook is booted up, the same charger can provide enough power to keep it charged forever.
newaccount74 4y ago
> There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices That's not quite correct. The Nintendo Switch and the Switch Dock works with some Macbook chargers, and all you need to do is read the small print on the devices. The Macbook chargers list the supported voltages & currents on the outside (in very small light grey text, but it is there), and the Switch has the supported voltages and required currents printed on the back. It's confusing because the Switch Dock needs a different voltage & current than just the Switch itself, but if you read the fine print on the devices you can see if they are compatible.

samiru 4y ago

> The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. We clearly need more regulation.

maccard 4y ago
Indeed, but this isn't the regulation we need unfortunately
- varajelle 4y ago
  We need more color codes and symbols maybe?
  - maccard 4y ago
    Honestly I think we need different ports. My laptop can already draw more power than the charger that came with it can provide, it's insulting for it to pretend it is charging when I plug a 5w a to c charger into it. Enforcing USB pd as a standard would be another acceptable one.

stewx 4y ago

The issue with the Nintendo Switch is that Nintendo designed their own faulty USB-C charging implementation rather than merely using the reference design. It's not a failure of the spec, it's a failure to adhere to the spec. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803

Nextgrid 4y ago
It's still not a great spec if it's so complex that you can screw it up. I understand the complexity for data, but for power I wish it was as simple as power & ground wires and that's it. Compare that with USB-A where even cheap Chinese cables from the lowest bidder usually work (work well enough at least - you might get voltage drop but it will still charge if you leave it on long enough) because the spec is so simple that even the worst manufacturers manage to do a good enough job, and it's something you can trivially DIY if you need to. Now compare that with USB-C. So many moving parts that can go wrong and so much corners that can be cut by unscrupulous manufacturers. Not to mention that even the most expensive devices (Apple) don't give you any visibility on what type of cable/charger/etc you have even though that information is technically available to the device (that's how it negotiates power delivery) which is extremely confusing even to tech-savvy people.
- bratbag 4y ago
  Thats a very strange statement to make. Should complex things not have a spec?
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    My point is that I don't like USB-C because it tries to do everything and manufacturer must implement that "everything" properly which adds cost & frustration. Compare USB-C power delivery and the 12-pin cable & connector with USB-A's 4 pins and a resistor on the data lines to communicate allowed current draw, or even a barrel jack with the standard 19V ~3A PSU and no negotiation at all. Which one is the easiest to build (hint: one is easy enough to DIY) and which one is more reliable?
- 4y ago

thefz 4y ago

I've always found that charge works, sometimes it's not as fast as it can go, but it works.

maccard 4y ago
"not as fast as it can go" is selling it short. I have an old 5w usb charger that I found in my drawer and plugged an A to C charger from it into my 2016 MacBook Pro, and it "worked" by some definition of worked - the laptop thinks it's charging, however it's 19x below what the charger that came with the device outputs, so it's clearly not fit for purpose.

jayd16 4y ago

>you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together I never understood this sentiment. That would be even more true if USB-C wasn't the standard so I don't really understand the complaint. Obviously "same shape" isn't an indicator that it will "just work" for USB-C, so why would we expect that to be the case for anything else with modern complexity? It would be nice if fits == works but that's just not a world we live in, USB-C or not.

908B64B197 4y ago
Except if you use Lightning. It just works.
- pkulak 4y ago
  Because it's not an open standard any only support low-power devices. If we gimped USB-C to only support 5 volts, it would work everywhere too.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - AprilArcus 4y ago
    iPhone fast charging over lightning runs at 9 volts.
    - ProZsolt 4y ago
      ... and uses USB-C on the other end of the cable
      - AprilArcus 4y ago
        There's no cable that has lightning on both ends; the 5V configuration has USB-A on the power supply side. My point is just that that lightning connector isn't limited to 5V.
4y ago

WinstonSmith84 4y ago

Not sure about Nintendo, but my macbook charger is charging perfectly fine my (Android) smartphone, and I don't even take my Android charger when traveling (charging at decent pace but unfortunately not in "very fast" mode). Either way, this is quite ironic in regard to the so-called Apple ecosystem and iPhone users still having to carry their own charger in 2022

jethro_tell 4y ago
Well, no, doesn't apple make 1/3 of their money on cables and dongles? that's like the whole point. It's not some sticky customer issue that they just can't work out, it's clearly a straight profit decision and the customer comes last in that matrix.

r00fus 4y ago

I have the same issue with my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt v2. It has USB-C charger, but doesn't work with Apple's USB-C cable or my M1 30W brick. I need to use the cable that came with the Bolt (amusing is USB-A -> USB-C).

alkonaut 4y ago

Then at least one isn't USB-C? Or the spec isn't good enough? The regulation (I hope) is about actually adhering to USB-C, not merely shipping with USB-C connectors. And the bar to pass should be to be able to use a large stack of USB-C chargers and work.

neop1x 4y ago

It's a mess. Using a lower wattage charger (apple or other brand) won't charge a Macbook. If the battery is flat, it won't do anything to it, no sound, no light, macbook looking dead. But if the Macbook is booted up, the same charger can provide enough power to keep it charged forever.

newaccount74 4y ago

> There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices That's not quite correct. The Nintendo Switch and the Switch Dock works with some Macbook chargers, and all you need to do is read the small print on the devices. The Macbook chargers list the supported voltages & currents on the outside (in very small light grey text, but it is there), and the Switch has the supported voltages and required currents printed on the back. It's confusing because the Switch Dock needs a different voltage & current than just the Switch itself, but if you read the fine print on the devices you can see if they are compatible.