5 ms·

Time to start regulating these games in the same way we regulate gambling. They shouldn't be sold to children. They're not Kinda eggs nor LOL Surprise and shou

by tjpnz 4y ago

Time to start regulating these games in the same way we regulate gambling. They shouldn't be sold to children. They're not Kinda eggs nor LOL Surprise and should never be brushed off as surprise mechanics. They're glorified slot machines, through and through.

ArmandGrillet 4y ago
Diablo Immortal is not available in Belgium and the Netherlands due to that: https://www.pcgamer.com/diablo-immortal-wont-be-released-in-belgium-or-the-netherlands-because-of-loot-boxes/ https://www.pcgamer.com/diablo-immortal-wont-be-released-in-...
- droopyEyelids 4y ago
  What allows these countries to stand up for their population against billion dollar corporations?
  - tjpnz 4y ago
    Strong democracies with little to no tolerance for lobbyists.
xuki 4y ago
Apple/Google revenue will see a big decline if those games are regulated. Most if not all the top grossing games on mobile follow the same spending pattern, and a big chunk of app stores' revenue come from those games.
- still_grokking 4y ago
  And that's exactly the reason almost all mobile game are utter trash. Of course that was caused because the app-"economy" was broken from day one on: You couldn't and still can't call out fair prices on mobile software. People weren't and aren't willing to pay those. So you have to make the software "free" and sell your user's data, or charge one or two bucks and use some other immoral scheme to get your actual costs covered. On a broken market there are only broken products… Simple as that.
  - ThatPlayer 4y ago
    My thoughts on the mobile gaming market are similar. There's great plenty of good ports of games like Slay the Spire, Civ VI, or even XCOM II. Problem is the majority of interested parties already have 'better' devices they'd prefer to play it on, so the prospect of paying even the discounted price that these ports have is too much. So now you're left with people who haven't tried better games, and with all the good-enough free ones, how can even a discounted price full game compete?
    - wincy 4y ago
      Absolutely, I own Civ 6 on mobile because it was discounted on Christmas or something. I got most of the expansions for cheap on my PC/MacOS hybrid purchase from Steam. Then I’m expected to pay the full fat $40 for the “new” (came out in 2019) Civ 6 expansion on mobile. No way.
  - xenadu02 4y ago
    > You couldn't and still can't call out fair prices on mobile software. People weren't and aren't willing to pay those. I'm not sure if that is strictly true. Prices did vary a lot in the beginning. However scale created a race-to-the-bottom situation for the exact reason you cited: most people wanted to pay less. The market was flooded with apps and games at the minimum price which created a strong expectation among the bulk of buyers. Consumable IAP is what really enabled the gambling-like mechanics. That was discovered not long after the implementation of IAP and very quickly the game devs that converted to free + consumable IAP started making all the money. IIRC it was an open secret in mobile games many many years ago that the optimal strategy was to make the early game easy to cast a wide net, then slowly ramp up the pay-to-win mechanics to milk the whales as much as possible. You don't really care if everyone else quits - so long as most people get X% of the way through before they do. Then you tweak X% to optimize for catching the most whales. The super critical aspect is the deliberate ramp. You have to get as many people into the early part of the funnel as possible so some of them will become invested enough to become whales. This also means you absolutely must make the game miserable for 90% of your players but only after they've made a significant investment.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  Oh no! Anyway...
  - weberer 4y ago
    The point is that those companies give millions of dollars to politicians per year, so they're seen as somewhat "untouchable" https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/alphabet-inc/summary?id=D000067823 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/alphabet-inc/summary?id=D00... https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/apple-inc/summary?id=D000021754 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/apple-inc/summary?id=D00002...
- martin-adams 4y ago
  It does sadden me that Apple/Google are happy to take that revenue
- caf 4y ago
  "Apple and Google are really gambling companies" was not exactly the hot take I expected to see today (I am not disagreeing!).
  - realusername 4y ago
    That's exactly what they don't want you to realise, they are doing a lot of branding to try to make politicians forget that they get most of their appstore/playstore money from glorified gambling.
bsnal 4y ago
That’s not a problem since children don’t have access to credit cards or any other means to pay for in-game items.
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  Until they steal their parents credit card, or somebody else's. Addicts tend to di desperate moves. Happened to friends, their son spent half of their montly salary in some stupid mobile game, took too long for them to find out
  - bsnal 4y ago
    Why is that Blizzard’s problem?
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      Why do you go to jail for selling alcohol to kids?
      - bsnal 4y ago
        Because you know that they are kids. Blizzard has no way to know that some players might be kids.
        ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        If you don't ask for ID, you don't know for sure - maybe they are adults with impaired growth.
        enneff 4y ago
        Except they market their games to kids in myriad ways.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  This is not only morally abhorrent, but also factually wrong - you can have a proper bank account with card from 16, and you can have pre-paid cards even earlier
moomin 4y ago
Not being funny, but I won’t buy my kids LOL surprise and they know exactly why. Whether or not this choice of mine is useful is hard to tell.
- wincy 4y ago
  You have to be vigilant as a parent. I didn’t realize until my late 20s that Diablo 2 primed me to love slot machines and gambling. It’s something I have to avoid.
  - VerminOctopus1 4y ago
    Funny you say this. I’ve been playing a bunch of D2:R lately and it is honestly pretty miserable. It is full stop gambling. Grinding out mephisto runs over and over again, hoping for that nice drop, getting a minor rush of excitement when an unidentified ring drops or whatever. Just totally mindless nonsense.
- bcrosby95 4y ago
  They're not much different than receiving a present.

by tjpnz 4y ago

ArmandGrillet 4y ago

Diablo Immortal is not available in Belgium and the Netherlands due to that: https://www.pcgamer.com/diablo-immortal-wont-be-released-in-belgium-or-the-netherlands-because-of-loot-boxes/ https://www.pcgamer.com/diablo-immortal-wont-be-released-in-...

droopyEyelids 4y ago
What allows these countries to stand up for their population against billion dollar corporations?
- tjpnz 4y ago
  Strong democracies with little to no tolerance for lobbyists.

xuki 4y ago

Apple/Google revenue will see a big decline if those games are regulated. Most if not all the top grossing games on mobile follow the same spending pattern, and a big chunk of app stores' revenue come from those games.

still_grokking 4y ago
And that's exactly the reason almost all mobile game are utter trash. Of course that was caused because the app-"economy" was broken from day one on: You couldn't and still can't call out fair prices on mobile software. People weren't and aren't willing to pay those. So you have to make the software "free" and sell your user's data, or charge one or two bucks and use some other immoral scheme to get your actual costs covered. On a broken market there are only broken products… Simple as that.
- ThatPlayer 4y ago
  My thoughts on the mobile gaming market are similar. There's great plenty of good ports of games like Slay the Spire, Civ VI, or even XCOM II. Problem is the majority of interested parties already have 'better' devices they'd prefer to play it on, so the prospect of paying even the discounted price that these ports have is too much. So now you're left with people who haven't tried better games, and with all the good-enough free ones, how can even a discounted price full game compete?
  - wincy 4y ago
    Absolutely, I own Civ 6 on mobile because it was discounted on Christmas or something. I got most of the expansions for cheap on my PC/MacOS hybrid purchase from Steam. Then I’m expected to pay the full fat $40 for the “new” (came out in 2019) Civ 6 expansion on mobile. No way.
- xenadu02 4y ago
  > You couldn't and still can't call out fair prices on mobile software. People weren't and aren't willing to pay those. I'm not sure if that is strictly true. Prices did vary a lot in the beginning. However scale created a race-to-the-bottom situation for the exact reason you cited: most people wanted to pay less. The market was flooded with apps and games at the minimum price which created a strong expectation among the bulk of buyers. Consumable IAP is what really enabled the gambling-like mechanics. That was discovered not long after the implementation of IAP and very quickly the game devs that converted to free + consumable IAP started making all the money. IIRC it was an open secret in mobile games many many years ago that the optimal strategy was to make the early game easy to cast a wide net, then slowly ramp up the pay-to-win mechanics to milk the whales as much as possible. You don't really care if everyone else quits - so long as most people get X% of the way through before they do. Then you tweak X% to optimize for catching the most whales. The super critical aspect is the deliberate ramp. You have to get as many people into the early part of the funnel as possible so some of them will become invested enough to become whales. This also means you absolutely must make the game miserable for 90% of your players but only after they've made a significant investment.
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
Oh no! Anyway...
- weberer 4y ago
  The point is that those companies give millions of dollars to politicians per year, so they're seen as somewhat "untouchable" https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/alphabet-inc/summary?id=D000067823 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/alphabet-inc/summary?id=D00... https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/apple-inc/summary?id=D000021754 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/apple-inc/summary?id=D00002...
martin-adams 4y ago
It does sadden me that Apple/Google are happy to take that revenue
caf 4y ago
"Apple and Google are really gambling companies" was not exactly the hot take I expected to see today (I am not disagreeing!).
- realusername 4y ago
  That's exactly what they don't want you to realise, they are doing a lot of branding to try to make politicians forget that they get most of their appstore/playstore money from glorified gambling.

bsnal 4y ago

That’s not a problem since children don’t have access to credit cards or any other means to pay for in-game items.

saiya-jin 4y ago
Until they steal their parents credit card, or somebody else's. Addicts tend to di desperate moves. Happened to friends, their son spent half of their montly salary in some stupid mobile game, took too long for them to find out
- bsnal 4y ago
  Why is that Blizzard’s problem?
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    Why do you go to jail for selling alcohol to kids?
    - bsnal 4y ago
      Because you know that they are kids. Blizzard has no way to know that some players might be kids.
      - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        If you don't ask for ID, you don't know for sure - maybe they are adults with impaired growth.
      - enneff 4y ago
        Except they market their games to kids in myriad ways.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
This is not only morally abhorrent, but also factually wrong - you can have a proper bank account with card from 16, and you can have pre-paid cards even earlier

moomin 4y ago

Not being funny, but I won’t buy my kids LOL surprise and they know exactly why. Whether or not this choice of mine is useful is hard to tell.

wincy 4y ago
You have to be vigilant as a parent. I didn’t realize until my late 20s that Diablo 2 primed me to love slot machines and gambling. It’s something I have to avoid.
- VerminOctopus1 4y ago
  Funny you say this. I’ve been playing a bunch of D2:R lately and it is honestly pretty miserable. It is full stop gambling. Grinding out mephisto runs over and over again, hoping for that nice drop, getting a minor rush of excitement when an unidentified ring drops or whatever. Just totally mindless nonsense.
bcrosby95 4y ago
They're not much different than receiving a present.