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"While we did not make this decision lightly..." Yes but you aren't doing it humanely, either. I've been through the dot com crash and several hard economic do

"While we did not make this decision lightly..." Yes but you aren't doing it humanely, either. I've been through the dot com crash and several hard economic downturns. It really puts your company's humanity on full display. It's the real test. Preserving cash flow is important. But you also have to do things carefully, openly, and with genuine care for the people who've believed in your vision. People will respect the hard decisions but not sloppy or careless execution.

darawk 4y ago
What would you have preferred they do here?
mavelikara 4y ago
> It really puts your company's humanity on full display. It's the real test. Which are the companies from the dot com crash you remember doing this very well, and very wrong?
baby 4y ago
How do you do it humanly? If it were me I’d rather get an email
- weird-eye-issue 4y ago
  Yeah this is 2022. Just email me. Saves us both awkward conversations that isn't going to change anything.
  - fleetwoodsnack 4y ago
    Exit interviews are an opportunity for the formerly employed to air and address their grievances too. I think it precludes a (generally) necessary transfer of information when an email is sent en lieu of a substantive discussion. As someone who’s been on both sides of the proverbial desk, I’ve come away frustrated but enlightened in some way almost every time.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      We all know the rules about exit interviews. They are the same as resignation letters. It’s best to say something banal and move on.
    - baq 4y ago
      there's literally zero upside for the employee to say the truth - or anything at all - in an exit interview and basically unlimited downside. maybe you got lucky?
    - weird-eye-issue 4y ago
      An exit interview for a rescinded job offer?
- teaearlgraycold 4y ago
  Take the hit. I worked for a series B startup employing around 100 people at the start of the pandemic. Because of the pandemic the business was entirely shut down for 6 months. And was barely operational for longer still. Not a single person was let go. Now, this requires you to run your business responsibly from the start. If you’re already on the edge of your runway you either cut back or die. But if you have the cash in the bank you’re a better person for spending it on the employees than doubling down on your war chest.
  - nxmnxm99 4y ago
    What? If you're cutting, you're not doing it for excess fuck-you cash, it's clearly a runway planning scenario. Giving the example of a company that basically shut down while paying their employees to do nothing isn't helping make your point.
    - ipaddr 4y ago
      Your missing his point. He used this as an opportunity to increase loyalty, keep a trained functioning team together at decent wages which were able to outperform other companies who laided off, rehired months later at greater costs, no loyalty and starting from ground zero.
  - Sparyjerry 4y ago
    The pandemic had "paycheck protection program" or PPP and a second round of this called PPP2 also. This program payed out billions to employers to keep employees, rather than let them go on unemployment, which would have been less productive to the country and maybe even cost the government more in those $600 per week in unemployment, per person. I seriously doubt any startup could otherwise have kept their employees thanks to their 'war chest.' Normally startups don't have a war chest at all.
    - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
      This startup had a 2 year runway after factoring in their office lease. Dropping the lease (since no one was coming in anyway) would have extended that. But you're right about PPP. They got PPP money a few months after the pandemic started.
- gazby 4y ago
  It's not just about the method of communication, it's also about being made whole. These people should be getting severance. Also in America your healthcare is almost inextricably tied to your employer.
  - calvano915 4y ago
    Perhaps this is a moment where those that would get a severance at all with a job loss acknowledge that workers rights matter, for everyone. You think that a majority of the restaurant workers during the lockdowns got severances? Perhaps it's time we separate healthcare from our workplace. If it wasn't crypto, maybe I'd be more sympathetic. Bad bets made all around in this case.
  - dwwoelfel 4y ago
    According to the article, they likely are getting severance. Those affected will gain access to the company’s “generous severance philosophy” and “a talent hub to allow them to opt-in to receive additional support services.” (The details surrounding the severance package are unclear, but some affected workers on Blind alleged they would receive two months worth of base pay; a representative from Coinbase did not provide further comment.)
    - lupire 4y ago
      I don't want a severance philosophy, I want a package.
      - dwwoelfel 4y ago
        They are getting a severance package.
- lordnacho 4y ago
  When I was an underboss in a firm that was going down, I just told people. Informally, in person. I wasn't supposed to, but they were putting two and two together themselves, and it would have been wrong to leave them with an inaccurate idea of how the firm was doing. Don't hire me if you need me to lie to your staff.
  - hallway_monitor 4y ago
    This is literally my only request from management. If you know I'm going to lose my job don't wait until my last day to tell me. Give me some time to set up other options.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      You should always have other options. You shouldn’t wait until you’re about to be laid off. I can honestly say there isn’t a single day since 2008 (I’ve been working a lot longer) that if the company I was working for laid me off that I wouldn’t be prepared to look for another job the same day. That means an updated resume, career document of accomplishments and talking points, an active network and “fuck you money” in the bank. If you live in any major city in the US, and are a software developer with experience, you should be making in the upper quintile of income for your area. There is usually no excuse not to have savings.
      - ipaddr 4y ago
        A developer in SF is not in the upper quintile.. they can't even afford a starter house. Big cities add huge costs that start making sense with home ownership but will leave a renter worse off. Good advice on the other points.
        scarface74 4y ago
        The median household income in SF is $92K. https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/25/18239828/report-middle-class-income-ranges-sf-bay-area-salary https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/25/18239828/report-middle-class... The average software developer in SF makes more then twice that. https://www.builtinsf.com/salaries/dev-engineer/software-engineer/san-francisco https://www.builtinsf.com/salaries/dev-engineer/software-eng...
- DonHopkins 4y ago
  How about an email from the executives who made the mistake of driving the company into the ground, who are humanely (or even humanly) resigning, so that you could be paid your salary that they'd promised you? All the stock that the executives dumped could easily pay the salaries of all the people they screwed. And by resigning, they would open up some nice corner offices for all the people who they hired while fully knowing they were going to need to fire a lot of people soon. https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-insiders-dump-nearly-5-billion-in-coin-stock-shortly-after-listing https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-insiders-dump-nearly... >Coinbase insiders dump nearly $5 billion in COIN stock shortly after listing >After an edict to remain "mission focused," Coinbase executives have succeeded in making themselves a fortune. >Insider activity reports for Coinbase’s COIN stock indicate that multiple early investors and executives sold billions in equity shortly after COIN’s direct listing. While the filings initially indicated that multiple executives sold a high percentage of their stake in the company, a representative for Coinbase told Cointelegraph that the sellers maintain strong ownership positions. >Data from Capital Market Laboratories and confirmed by filings on Coinbase’s Investor Relations website shows a total of 12,965,079 shares were sold by insiders, worth over $4.6 billion at COIN’s $344.38 per share Friday close. >Notable transactions include Coinbase CFO Alesia Haas selling some 255,500 shares at a price of $388.73 (though her Form 4 states that she retains options), while CEO Brian Armstrong sold 749,999 shares in three transactions at various prices, netting a total of $291,827,966. >According to his Form 4 disclosure, after the sale Armstrong retains 300,001 shares worth over $1 billion. In a filing prior to the direct listing however, he was reported to have 36,851,833 shares, indicating that he sold just over 2% of his stake in the company.
  - HFguy 4y ago
    I'm always surprised by how high SBC is for executives these days at some of these firms. When I was starting out after college, was at successful start-up. Two differences (1) The CEO and Founders made money but nothing like today, maybe $50-75M and they just held the stock for years and (2) The secretaries from the early days actually made $2-3M when the firm went public. Not sure that happens today.
- lupire 4y ago
  Nobody joins a blockchain company for the humanity. The whole point of the blockchain economy is to the remove the human element.
  - CryptoPunk 4y ago
tempsy 4y ago
can’t find the tweet right now but saw one where a candidate showed an email where a recruiter or hiring manager literally promised a few weeks earlier to not rescind their offer before rescinding it
BrainInAJar 4y ago
The people who are going to be screwed the most are immigrants who now have to find another visa sponsor & fast
MangoCoffee 4y ago
>you aren't doing it humanely not sure how you can do it humanely. what does "humanely" got to do with business decision?
duxup 4y ago
It sounds like they are offering severance and etc. That’s more than most jobs.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  This is honestly a minimum to avoid getting sued. Otherwise an enterprising lawyer might be ready with some arguments about promissory estoppel.
  - duxup 4y ago
    What is the severance offered? I don’t know how you can determine what the minimum is without knowing the severance and etc.
    - ls612 4y ago
      I’ve read two months pay in a CNBC article, which for most of these folks is tens of thousands of dollars. They won’t be starving by any means while they search for a new job.
      - duxup 4y ago
        Yeah that’s not bad.
bdcravens 4y ago
> not sloppy or careless execution Isn't hiring excessively sloppy? In tech when times are good, everyone's desperately throwing warm bodies in chairs. I'm sure many have thought to themselves, "I'm glad I'm getting paid, but is my job really that necessary? Do we need a six-person Button Component Team?"
kodah 4y ago
The worst part is that Coinbase's interviews are difficult. If I'd spent months studying, rejecting other (good faith) offers, and then had this happen I'd not only be in a bad spot (without a job entering a recession) but I'd be furious at the inequality of input and output. I've been interviewing for the past month and I made a rule that I won't be doing any algorithm interviews. I didn't have time to study; some friends questioned whether this was a good idea or not. I ended up submitting code samples when recruiters or managers would try to go through that kind of phone screening. Not only am I interviewing at better quality firms, but it's not nearly as stressful. Anecdotally there is a high correlation between firms that tell me they're freezing hiring, etc and algorithm interviews.
- pavlov 4y ago
  > ”Anecdotally there is a high correlation between firms that tell me they're freezing hiring, etc and algorithm interviews.” Both are signs of companies that treat employees as ammunition rather than assets.
- jlund-molfese 4y ago
  How do you find the better-quality companies you apply to? Are you able to decline to answer algorithm questions when they're asked, and instead convince companies to accept code samples? There is https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards , but there aren't many larger companies on the list
  - granshaw 4y ago
    Yeah avoiding LC interviews typically means missing out on most of the high paying companies, for some it’s worth it
    - kodah 4y ago
      For context, I will actually be making substantially more - at least one order of magnitude - wherever I land.
jstummbillig 4y ago
Ominous, grandiose, hard to object to, impossible to act upon.
aaronbrethorst 4y ago
This feels very much in keeping with a between-the-lines reading of the CEO's "mission-focused company" memo in 2020. https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-is-a-mission-focused-company-af882df8804 https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-is-a-mission-focused-comp...
- lupire 4y ago
  "mission-focused" is anti-political-activism position, not a financial health position.
ecocentrik 4y ago
Humanistic business practices from fintech?
mlindner 4y ago
> Preserving cash flow is important. But you also have to do things carefully, openly, and with genuine care for the people who've believed in your vision. So firing people who have actively worked on the vision is better than firing people who haven't started working yet? You seem to be taking things backwards. This option is quite a lot better than the alternative.

darawk 4y ago

What would you have preferred they do here?

mavelikara 4y ago

> It really puts your company's humanity on full display. It's the real test. Which are the companies from the dot com crash you remember doing this very well, and very wrong?

baby 4y ago

How do you do it humanly? If it were me I’d rather get an email

weird-eye-issue 4y ago
Yeah this is 2022. Just email me. Saves us both awkward conversations that isn't going to change anything.
- fleetwoodsnack 4y ago
  Exit interviews are an opportunity for the formerly employed to air and address their grievances too. I think it precludes a (generally) necessary transfer of information when an email is sent en lieu of a substantive discussion. As someone who’s been on both sides of the proverbial desk, I’ve come away frustrated but enlightened in some way almost every time.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    We all know the rules about exit interviews. They are the same as resignation letters. It’s best to say something banal and move on.
  - baq 4y ago
    there's literally zero upside for the employee to say the truth - or anything at all - in an exit interview and basically unlimited downside. maybe you got lucky?
  - weird-eye-issue 4y ago
    An exit interview for a rescinded job offer?
teaearlgraycold 4y ago
Take the hit. I worked for a series B startup employing around 100 people at the start of the pandemic. Because of the pandemic the business was entirely shut down for 6 months. And was barely operational for longer still. Not a single person was let go. Now, this requires you to run your business responsibly from the start. If you’re already on the edge of your runway you either cut back or die. But if you have the cash in the bank you’re a better person for spending it on the employees than doubling down on your war chest.
- nxmnxm99 4y ago
  What? If you're cutting, you're not doing it for excess fuck-you cash, it's clearly a runway planning scenario. Giving the example of a company that basically shut down while paying their employees to do nothing isn't helping make your point.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    Your missing his point. He used this as an opportunity to increase loyalty, keep a trained functioning team together at decent wages which were able to outperform other companies who laided off, rehired months later at greater costs, no loyalty and starting from ground zero.
- Sparyjerry 4y ago
  The pandemic had "paycheck protection program" or PPP and a second round of this called PPP2 also. This program payed out billions to employers to keep employees, rather than let them go on unemployment, which would have been less productive to the country and maybe even cost the government more in those $600 per week in unemployment, per person. I seriously doubt any startup could otherwise have kept their employees thanks to their 'war chest.' Normally startups don't have a war chest at all.
  - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
    This startup had a 2 year runway after factoring in their office lease. Dropping the lease (since no one was coming in anyway) would have extended that. But you're right about PPP. They got PPP money a few months after the pandemic started.
gazby 4y ago
It's not just about the method of communication, it's also about being made whole. These people should be getting severance. Also in America your healthcare is almost inextricably tied to your employer.
- calvano915 4y ago
  Perhaps this is a moment where those that would get a severance at all with a job loss acknowledge that workers rights matter, for everyone. You think that a majority of the restaurant workers during the lockdowns got severances? Perhaps it's time we separate healthcare from our workplace. If it wasn't crypto, maybe I'd be more sympathetic. Bad bets made all around in this case.
- dwwoelfel 4y ago
  According to the article, they likely are getting severance. Those affected will gain access to the company’s “generous severance philosophy” and “a talent hub to allow them to opt-in to receive additional support services.” (The details surrounding the severance package are unclear, but some affected workers on Blind alleged they would receive two months worth of base pay; a representative from Coinbase did not provide further comment.)
  - lupire 4y ago
    I don't want a severance philosophy, I want a package.
    - dwwoelfel 4y ago
      They are getting a severance package.
lordnacho 4y ago
When I was an underboss in a firm that was going down, I just told people. Informally, in person. I wasn't supposed to, but they were putting two and two together themselves, and it would have been wrong to leave them with an inaccurate idea of how the firm was doing. Don't hire me if you need me to lie to your staff.
- hallway_monitor 4y ago
  This is literally my only request from management. If you know I'm going to lose my job don't wait until my last day to tell me. Give me some time to set up other options.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    You should always have other options. You shouldn’t wait until you’re about to be laid off. I can honestly say there isn’t a single day since 2008 (I’ve been working a lot longer) that if the company I was working for laid me off that I wouldn’t be prepared to look for another job the same day. That means an updated resume, career document of accomplishments and talking points, an active network and “fuck you money” in the bank. If you live in any major city in the US, and are a software developer with experience, you should be making in the upper quintile of income for your area. There is usually no excuse not to have savings.
    - ipaddr 4y ago
      A developer in SF is not in the upper quintile.. they can't even afford a starter house. Big cities add huge costs that start making sense with home ownership but will leave a renter worse off. Good advice on the other points.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        The median household income in SF is $92K. https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/25/18239828/report-middle-class-income-ranges-sf-bay-area-salary https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/25/18239828/report-middle-class... The average software developer in SF makes more then twice that. https://www.builtinsf.com/salaries/dev-engineer/software-engineer/san-francisco https://www.builtinsf.com/salaries/dev-engineer/software-eng...
DonHopkins 4y ago
How about an email from the executives who made the mistake of driving the company into the ground, who are humanely (or even humanly) resigning, so that you could be paid your salary that they'd promised you? All the stock that the executives dumped could easily pay the salaries of all the people they screwed. And by resigning, they would open up some nice corner offices for all the people who they hired while fully knowing they were going to need to fire a lot of people soon. https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-insiders-dump-nearly-5-billion-in-coin-stock-shortly-after-listing https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-insiders-dump-nearly... >Coinbase insiders dump nearly $5 billion in COIN stock shortly after listing >After an edict to remain "mission focused," Coinbase executives have succeeded in making themselves a fortune. >Insider activity reports for Coinbase’s COIN stock indicate that multiple early investors and executives sold billions in equity shortly after COIN’s direct listing. While the filings initially indicated that multiple executives sold a high percentage of their stake in the company, a representative for Coinbase told Cointelegraph that the sellers maintain strong ownership positions. >Data from Capital Market Laboratories and confirmed by filings on Coinbase’s Investor Relations website shows a total of 12,965,079 shares were sold by insiders, worth over $4.6 billion at COIN’s $344.38 per share Friday close. >Notable transactions include Coinbase CFO Alesia Haas selling some 255,500 shares at a price of $388.73 (though her Form 4 states that she retains options), while CEO Brian Armstrong sold 749,999 shares in three transactions at various prices, netting a total of $291,827,966. >According to his Form 4 disclosure, after the sale Armstrong retains 300,001 shares worth over $1 billion. In a filing prior to the direct listing however, he was reported to have 36,851,833 shares, indicating that he sold just over 2% of his stake in the company.
- HFguy 4y ago
  I'm always surprised by how high SBC is for executives these days at some of these firms. When I was starting out after college, was at successful start-up. Two differences (1) The CEO and Founders made money but nothing like today, maybe $50-75M and they just held the stock for years and (2) The secretaries from the early days actually made $2-3M when the firm went public. Not sure that happens today.
lupire 4y ago
Nobody joins a blockchain company for the humanity. The whole point of the blockchain economy is to the remove the human element.
- CryptoPunk 4y ago

tempsy 4y ago

can’t find the tweet right now but saw one where a candidate showed an email where a recruiter or hiring manager literally promised a few weeks earlier to not rescind their offer before rescinding it

BrainInAJar 4y ago

The people who are going to be screwed the most are immigrants who now have to find another visa sponsor & fast

MangoCoffee 4y ago

>you aren't doing it humanely not sure how you can do it humanely. what does "humanely" got to do with business decision?

duxup 4y ago

It sounds like they are offering severance and etc. That’s more than most jobs.

pclmulqdq 4y ago
This is honestly a minimum to avoid getting sued. Otherwise an enterprising lawyer might be ready with some arguments about promissory estoppel.
- duxup 4y ago
  What is the severance offered? I don’t know how you can determine what the minimum is without knowing the severance and etc.
  - ls612 4y ago
    I’ve read two months pay in a CNBC article, which for most of these folks is tens of thousands of dollars. They won’t be starving by any means while they search for a new job.
    - duxup 4y ago
      Yeah that’s not bad.

bdcravens 4y ago

> not sloppy or careless execution Isn't hiring excessively sloppy? In tech when times are good, everyone's desperately throwing warm bodies in chairs. I'm sure many have thought to themselves, "I'm glad I'm getting paid, but is my job really that necessary? Do we need a six-person Button Component Team?"

kodah 4y ago

The worst part is that Coinbase's interviews are difficult. If I'd spent months studying, rejecting other (good faith) offers, and then had this happen I'd not only be in a bad spot (without a job entering a recession) but I'd be furious at the inequality of input and output. I've been interviewing for the past month and I made a rule that I won't be doing any algorithm interviews. I didn't have time to study; some friends questioned whether this was a good idea or not. I ended up submitting code samples when recruiters or managers would try to go through that kind of phone screening. Not only am I interviewing at better quality firms, but it's not nearly as stressful. Anecdotally there is a high correlation between firms that tell me they're freezing hiring, etc and algorithm interviews.

pavlov 4y ago
> ”Anecdotally there is a high correlation between firms that tell me they're freezing hiring, etc and algorithm interviews.” Both are signs of companies that treat employees as ammunition rather than assets.
jlund-molfese 4y ago
How do you find the better-quality companies you apply to? Are you able to decline to answer algorithm questions when they're asked, and instead convince companies to accept code samples? There is https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards , but there aren't many larger companies on the list
- granshaw 4y ago
  Yeah avoiding LC interviews typically means missing out on most of the high paying companies, for some it’s worth it
  - kodah 4y ago
    For context, I will actually be making substantially more - at least one order of magnitude - wherever I land.

jstummbillig 4y ago

Ominous, grandiose, hard to object to, impossible to act upon.

aaronbrethorst 4y ago

This feels very much in keeping with a between-the-lines reading of the CEO's "mission-focused company" memo in 2020. https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-is-a-mission-focused-company-af882df8804 https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-is-a-mission-focused-comp...

lupire 4y ago
"mission-focused" is anti-political-activism position, not a financial health position.

ecocentrik 4y ago

Humanistic business practices from fintech?

mlindner 4y ago

> Preserving cash flow is important. But you also have to do things carefully, openly, and with genuine care for the people who've believed in your vision. So firing people who have actively worked on the vision is better than firing people who haven't started working yet? You seem to be taking things backwards. This option is quite a lot better than the alternative.